WD Red vs WD Green vs Seagate 3TB Hard Drive Speeds - Page 30 - AVS Forum
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post #871 of 884 Old 10-08-2014, 04:08 PM
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That would be some kick ass functionality to build in some software RAID into windows server platforms...

Instantly making the cost of the program more worth it.

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post #872 of 884 Old 10-08-2014, 07:56 PM
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I'm wondering that with the new crop of 6TB and 8TB and soon to be 10TB hard drives hitting shelfs... what is the new solution for a media server?

How does that change configuration? Or backup/failed drive recovery strategies?

Snapshop raid was a winner, but I don't think it's as attractive with 6TB+ hard drives.
Until a solution like ajhieb posted shows up, I think it's RAID10.
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post #873 of 884 Old 10-08-2014, 09:16 PM
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Until a solution like ajhieb posted shows up, I think it's RAID10.
Yeah, I think UREs are the elephant in the room.

With the size of drives steadily increasing and our appetite for data keeping pace with it, UREs are only going to be a bigger and bigger problem. The obvious solution is for drive manufacturers to make the drives more reliable, but I'm not sure how practical that is. If you look at it from a reliability standpoint a typical consumer drive rated at a URE every 10^14 bits read, that translates to URE reliability of 99.999999999999% That's really good. Expecting significantly better than that from some painted-on rust, spinning at a hundred miles an hour is probably unrealistic. Honestly I'm nut sure there is much that drive manufacturers can do about it (unless they decide to implement a similar sector based parity system that is transparent to the OS, with a hardware XOR engine for calculating parity, which would be pretty sweet)

While it would be nice to have something like I described earlier I doubt we'll see anything that flexible in WinX but I'm holding out hope that they'll include something in the filesystem that adds some fault tolerance for UREs.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #874 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 12:25 PM
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've been using many, many dozens of consumer drives over the last fifteen years in RAID setups.
15 years ago, a cheap storage drive was the ST317242A. You got 17.2GB for $220 (or ~$310 adjusted for inflation). That held 4 dvds and took 14 minutes for a full read pass. Now, a WD60EZRX for $270 will hold 1,700 blu-rays and take 14 hours for a full read pass.

We've gone from $55/disc to $0.15/disc for storing a raw rip. For me personally, parity-based solutions stopped being useful a few years ago when the previous generation of hard drives came out. Once they crossed fifty-cent point, that meant full 1:1 duplication for less than a buck per movie. Less hassle. Less headache. The numbers have changed so much with the current generation that I have trouble recommending a parity solution for any use.
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post #875 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 01:01 PM
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15 years ago, a cheap storage drive was the ST317242A. You got 17.2GB for $220 (or ~$310 adjusted for inflation). That held 4 dvds and took 14 minutes for a full read pass. Now, a WD60EZRX for $270 will hold 1,700 blu-rays and take 14 hours for a full read pass.

We've gone from $55/disc to $0.15/disc for storing a raw rip. For me personally, parity-based solutions stopped being useful a few years ago when the previous generation of hard drives came out. Once they crossed fifty-cent point, that meant full 1:1 duplication for less than a buck per movie. Less hassle. Less headache. The numbers have changed so much with the current generation that I have trouble recommending a parity solution for any use.
Parity solutions still come in handy when the amount of data gets to be ridiculously high. Right now a 30 GB Blu-ray rip is running roughly $1.23. If someone has 3,500 rips, that's in an awfully steep price-point at which to go with a mirror over a parity solution.
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post #876 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 01:39 PM
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I agree. At about $35 per TB (that's a good price) then a 25GB rip (most rips are not 30GB, but seems like modern movies with higher FPS are now taking more and more space)

$35 per TB = $3.5 per 100GB, which is .035 per GB. So a 25GB rip costs you about .875.

Or 4 rips for under $4 for plain old speak. At a $1 a rip it's not a big deal the cost of storage until you get into the mega sized collections, or 50TB+ capacity servers... then the difference in cost of parity vs duplicity can be quite significant.

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post #877 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 01:58 PM
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My average BD ISO file size has been consistently just over 31GB. It was that way with 1K rips and 1.5k Rips. Now I'm over 2000 rips and it's still around the same 31GB average file size.
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post #878 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
Parity solutions still come in handy when the amount of data gets to be ridiculously high. Right now a 30 GB Blu-ray rip is running roughly $1.23. If someone has 3,500 rips, that's in an awfully steep price-point at which to go with a mirror over a parity solution.
3,500 rips? Even ignoring the obvious hypothetical about someone with a $50K-$70K movie collection is balking at a few thousand in hard drives...what is the extra cost when you average it across the time it would take to actually watch all of those rips? We're looking at pennies per hour. If you are using a projector, the bulb-hours are costing more than that.
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post #879 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 04:13 PM
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3,500 rips? Even ignoring the obvious hypothetical about someone with a $50K-$70K movie collection is balking at a few thousand in hard drives...what is the extra cost when you average it across the time it would take to actually watch all of those rips? We're looking at pennies per hour. If you are using a projector, the bulb-hours are costing more than that.
I have over 3,500 rips. Investing $3,500 in a "new" server just a few weeks ago strained my budget to the limit, and that was using a 2-drive failure tolerance parity. There was simply no way I could have swung enough for a second enclosure and enough drives to create a true mirror. The parity is not a back-up. But the redundancy does protect me from having to re-rip hundreds of movies, after I spend countless hours figuring out which movies and shows need to be re-ripped.

3,500 discs is, compared to the average Joe, a ton of discs. Compared to many of the users that frequent these forums, that's not a terribly large collection. There are quite a number of users around here that put my 3,500 disc collection to shame. As for the cost of bulb hours, there are alternatives to bulb projectors.
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post #880 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by EricN View Post
15 years ago, a cheap storage drive was the ST317242A. You got 17.2GB for $220 (or ~$310 adjusted for inflation). That held 4 dvds and took 14 minutes for a full read pass. Now, a WD60EZRX for $270 will hold 1,700 blu-rays and take 14 hours for a full read pass.

We've gone from $55/disc to $0.15/disc for storing a raw rip. For me personally, parity-based solutions stopped being useful a few years ago when the previous generation of hard drives came out. Once they crossed fifty-cent point, that meant full 1:1 duplication for less than a buck per movie. Less hassle. Less headache. The numbers have changed so much with the current generation that I have trouble recommending a parity solution for any use.
I bought a used 2tb seagate for 50 cents

0.00025 per GB

bought it at a thrift store they did not know much about computer stuff
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post #881 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
I have over 3,500 rips. Investing $3,500 in a "new" server just a few weeks ago strained my budget to the limit, and that was using a 2-drive failure tolerance parity. There was simply no way I could have swung enough for a second enclosure and enough drives to create a true mirror. The parity is not a back-up. But the redundancy does protect me from having to re-rip hundreds of movies, after I spend countless hours figuring out which movies and shows need to be re-ripped.

3,500 discs is, compared to the average Joe, a ton of discs. Compared to many of the users that frequent these forums, that's not a terribly large collection. There are quite a number of users around here that put my 3,500 disc collection to shame. As for the cost of bulb hours, there are alternatives to bulb projectors.
I'm not sure I've watched 3500 movies in my lifetime!
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post #882 of 884 Old 10-09-2014, 10:59 PM
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I'm not sure I've watched 3500 movies in my lifetime!
3,500 discs also includes television shows, many of which are 4-6 discs per season. For instance, X-Files by itself was 56 discs after 9 seasons and 2 movies. Total movies, my brother and I are probably around 2,800 discs or so.
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post #883 of 884 Old 10-10-2014, 06:36 AM
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TV shows are killers. I love all the HBO stuff, show time stuff, and general good TV. Most good series last more than 4 seasons... Which is a lot of discs

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post #884 of 884 Old 10-10-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
3,500 discs also includes television shows, many of which are 4-6 discs per season. For instance, X-Files by itself was 56 discs after 9 seasons and 2 movies. Total movies, my brother and I are probably around 2,800 discs or so.
Stargate Atlantis in Bluray is 20 discs. Stargate SG1 is 50 discs, but it is only on DVD. TV Series are definitely what kills the space!

Non-standard RAIDs can recover deleted files. Anyone who says RAID protection is only for failed drives is lying.
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