HD PVR 2 1512 Owners Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 315 Old 08-20-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ButtonPuncher View Post
We'll soon find out. I'll be recording about 260 hours worth or programming over the next week and a half. That will be a good stress test for my new toy.
What software are you recording it with and is any of it from a TV tuner? I think the consensus was that recording from TV tuners typically resulted in non-standard video files that many software filters/codecs had trouble dealing with.
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post #272 of 315 Old 08-20-2014, 12:04 PM
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I'll be using whatever software that comes with the HD PVR 2. I don't know how I'm going to connect it yet, but it will be recording the output of an an xbox360 running Media Center. I'll either be using Component with optical digital audio or using HDMI. (The xbox360 is set up as a media center extender.) My main MediaCenter does have multiple cable card tuners in it.

I'm also planning on using CBR at the maximum bitrate that the HD PVR 2 supports. I'll re-encode it later to VBR when I edit the files.
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post #273 of 315 Old 08-22-2014, 11:58 AM
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14Mbps?!?! Seriously Hauppauge!?!? Why can the Colossus do 24Mbps but the HD PVR 2 is limited to 14Mbps? Even if Hauppauge was worried about the USB 2.0 interface's bandwidth, 24MBps is only 1/20 of USB 2.0's 480Mbps.

I made some tests and did a 10 hour record of a 1280x720x60fps HDMI signal. The video is good but soft. The 14Mbps limit is obvious.

I'm also pissed off because Hauppauge charges an extra $10 for the WinTV software. So much for scheduling any recordings.

If anyone knows of any hacks to bypass the 14Mbps limit, please speak up.

I'm now looking at an Avermedia Game Broadcaster HD card. It is software compression but that's not an issue with my 4th gen 3Ghz Core i5. It's directshow compatible so it will work with a myraid of software. It will also do 50Mbps.

BP
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post #274 of 315 Old 08-22-2014, 12:35 PM
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It might not strictly be a recording rate issue. When I record with any of these in SageTV, Sage has different properties you can tweak to adjust the color, hue, sharpness, etc. I don't remember if you can adjust these in the Hauppauge software, but increasing the sharpness might help your "softness" issue.

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Originally Posted by ButtonPuncher View Post
14Mbps?!?! Seriously Hauppauge!?!? Why can the Colossus do 24Mbps but the HD PVR 2 is limited to 14Mbps? Even if Hauppauge was worried about the USB 2.0 interface's bandwidth, 24MBps is only 1/20 of USB 2.0's 480Mbps.

I made some tests and did a 10 hour record of a 1280x720x60fps HDMI signal. The video is good but soft. The 14Mbps limit is obvious.

I'm also pissed off because Hauppauge charges an extra $10 for the WinTV software. So much for scheduling any recordings.

If anyone knows of any hacks to bypass the 14Mbps limit, please speak up.

I'm now looking at an Avermedia Game Broadcaster HD card. It is software compression but that's not an issue with my 4th gen 3Ghz Core i5. It's directshow compatible so it will work with a myraid of software. It will also do 50Mbps.

BP
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post #275 of 315 Old 08-22-2014, 08:06 PM
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Yeah, but gain and sharpness should only affect analog signals. I have a full digital path. HDMI in.

I should mention that the capture window is razor sharp. The HDMI out of the HD PVR 2 is not. It's colors are over saturated and it's a little soft. Could they actually be doing a digital to analog then back to digital conversion?!? That's a good way to muck up a perfectly good digital signal. They may also be doing something to make the HDMI output "look" like the encoded signal.

BTW, I'm a former broadcast engineer so this stuff bugs me. I look at it like this... DVD is 9.8Mbps, ATSC is 19.4Mbps, and Blu-ray is 36Mbps. So for 1080i, you want at least 20Mbps, and for 1080p you want at least 36Mbps. I know that they are different modulation/encoding schemes and both ATSC and Blu-ray are encoded by $20k-200k encoders... I'm just saying that a little box like the HD PVR 2 needs bandwidth in order to look good when encoding in real time. And when I can pick up a 4TB drive for $160, I've got plenty of room.
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post #276 of 315 Old 08-22-2014, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPuncher View Post
Yeah, but gain and sharpness should only affect analog signals. I have a full digital path. HDMI in.

I should mention that the capture window is razor sharp. The HDMI out of the HD PVR 2 is not. It's colors are over saturated and it's a little soft. Could they actually be doing a digital to analog then back to digital conversion?!? That's a good way to muck up a perfectly good digital signal. They may also be doing something to make the HDMI output "look" like the encoded signal.

BTW, I'm a former broadcast engineer so this stuff bugs me. I look at it like this... DVD is 9.8Mbps, ATSC is 19.4Mbps, and Blu-ray is 36Mbps. So for 1080i, you want at least 20Mbps, and for 1080p you want at least 36Mbps. I know that they are different modulation/encoding schemes and both ATSC and Blu-ray are encoded by $20k-200k encoders... I'm just saying that a little box like the HD PVR 2 needs bandwidth in order to look good when encoding in real time. And when I can pick up a 4TB drive for $160, I've got plenty of room.
Most Blu-ray movies are around ~18mbps. 36mbps is the max bitrate for Blu-ray and is rarely used. You're also comparing MPEG2 bitrates with AVC bitrates, and obviously AVC has a much higher compressibility. Unless your video has really high action, 1080p at 14mbps should look as good as most Blu-rays. I would prefer a higher bitrate as sometimes the action does go above what 14mbps can handle effectively, but most of the time, it's sufficient.
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post #277 of 315 Old 08-23-2014, 10:02 AM
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True but the HD PVR 2 doesn't have the luxury of the processing and multipass encoding that's used to author blu-rays. I just think that it's an idiotic limitation especially when they offer an almost identical product with almost double the bandwidth.
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post #278 of 315 Old 08-23-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ButtonPuncher View Post
True but the HD PVR 2 doesn't have the luxury of the processing and multipass encoding that's used to author blu-rays. I just think that it's an idiotic limitation especially when they offer an almost identical product with almost double the bandwidth.
Right. If it could do proper variable bitrate (even using constant ratefactor instead of two pass) it would easily look as good as Blu-ray, even at 14mbps. There are plenty of Blu-ray rips that are well below 14mbps but look nearly as good. Still, 14mbps, even at constant bitrate is going to be good enough for most uses. It's lower than it probably should be, and there are going to be times where it's not enough, but for most people, and most cases, it's enough while keeping file sizes low. Note that 1080i HDTV broadcasts are done at a constant 15mbps MPEG2. This is 14MBPS AVC, which has a lot better compressibility than MPEG2. 1080p30 (the highest this box captures at) actually requires the same or less bitrate than 1080i to maintain the same quality.

This is an image I took from one of my recent captures at 1080p. Looks as good as the original.



I would have liked a higher bitrate as well, but 14mbps is doable.
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post #279 of 315 Old 08-23-2014, 04:12 PM
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You guys sound like you know your stuff. Can you help me understand the pro & cons of capturing constant vs variable?
I almost always use variable bit rates for smaller file sizes but if there's an important sporting event or concert should I go with the max bit rate/constant? Would it be a significant increase in quality? Enough to justify the larger file?
Thanks.

I've also had problems with some of the HDPVR2s captured files... Drop outs & etc that effect editing with VideoRedo. Any tips on that issue? I typically use tsremux, tsmuxer & Tsdoctor to try & fix them.

Last edited by nikknightt; 08-23-2014 at 04:15 PM.
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post #280 of 315 Old 08-23-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nikknightt View Post
You guys sound like you know your stuff. Can you help me understand the pro & cons of capturing constant vs variable?
I almost always use variable bit rates for smaller file sizes but if there's an important sporting event or concert should I go with the max bit rate/constant? Would it be a significant increase in quality? Enough to justify the larger file?
Thanks.

I've also had problems with some of the HDPVR2s captured files... Drop outs & etc that effect editing with VideoRedo. Any tips on that issue? I typically use tsremux, tsmuxer & Tsdoctor to try & fix them.
I usually do variable bitrate at the highest bitrate, 14mbps. It keeps the average at 14mbps, so there's some potential for it to go above 14mbps on some frames. For the most part it's not really very variable, but there's potential for it to be slightly higher quality than constant bitrate. It's also likely to have a more consistent quality than constant bitrate.
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post #281 of 315 Old 08-23-2014, 04:39 PM
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morphinapg, What capture app are you using? Hauppauge Capture? Showbiz?
Thanks.
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post #282 of 315 Old 08-23-2014, 05:54 PM
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morphinapg, What capture app are you using? Hauppauge Capture? Showbiz?
Thanks.
Hauppauge Capture
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post #283 of 315 Old 08-24-2014, 11:40 AM
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@ morphinapg That cap looks much better than what I'm getting. I'll have to play around with it some more. Was that HDMI or component in?

@ nikknightt VBR is for reduced filesizes. You can set a min and max bitrate and the encoder will stay withing those limits. It can become problematic with fast motion or high detail scene changes. CBR wastes space for simple scenes but it doesn't suffer from the motion blur and detail loss that VBR does. The only time that I like to use VBR is when I'm re-encoding/compressing a file. A multi-pass VBR file is almost identical in quality to a CBR file but it's much smaller. Unfortunately multi-pass VBR encoding isn't possible with a realtime encoder like the HD PVR 2. You can only do multi-pass VBR encoding with a piece of software like Handbrake.

BP

Last edited by ButtonPuncher; 08-24-2014 at 01:15 PM.
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post #284 of 315 Old 08-24-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ButtonPuncher View Post
@ morphinapg That cap looks much better than what I'm getting. I'll have to play around with it some more. Was that HDMI or component in?

@ nikknightt VBR is for reduced filesizes. You can set a min and max bitrate and the encoder will stay withing those limits. It can become problematic with fast motion or high detail scene changes. CBR wastes space for simple scenes but it doesn't suffer from the motion blur and detail loss that VBR does. The only time that I like to use VBR is when I'm re-encoding/compressing a file. A multi-pass VBR file is almost identical in quality to a CBR file but it's much smaller. Unfortunately multi-pass VBR encoding isn't possible with a realtime encoder like the HD PVR 2. You can only do multi-pass VBR encoding with a piece of software like Handbrake.

BP
I'm using HDMI. I use VBR 14mbps, and my files always have an average bitrate of 14mbps, never lower. There are no minimum or maximum bitrate settings I'm aware of. If there were it would seem to imply some sort of CRF/CQ style encoding (which achieves the same quality as multipass VBR, but with unpredictable filesizes) although obviously the min/max would be limitations on that.
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post #285 of 315 Old 08-28-2014, 01:19 PM
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I've had the PVR 2 for a little over a year now. Use it to record TV & Movies with a HDMI splitter/stripper. I occasionally get dropouts in the video and have to use TSDoctor or TSRemux to make the file editable in VideoReDo. I usually remux any files in TSDoctor before I edit them. I have been learning how to interpret the log files produced by TSDoctor and VRD. The TSDoctor logfile shows the audio transitions from 2 channel to 5.1 nicely, but I really don't know how to interpret the other data. The VideoReDo logfile (one file for the day you use it) shows that frames are removed at xx:xx:xx.xx. Does that mean that frames were dropped from the original transmission or did VRD remove them?

Can anyone point me to any documentation that explains how to interpret the logfiles?
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post #286 of 315 Old 09-09-2014, 10:14 AM
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Sorry if this has been covered before, didnt see it in a search.

I currently have the 1212, but thinking of finally switching to something that can capture via HDMI so I can get rid of some of the component cables in my system, and it sounds like it will have no problem capturing from my current receiver (HR24). My biggest question is will this work with RCTVcap? (or some other alternative command line capture program?). RCTVCap or something similar is pretty much essential for me to use this...I really hate the bulky software that came with the 1212. Some Amazon reviews seemed to indicate that it will, but Id like to verify that it works with both HDMI and component/optical on this device (have a component VHS deck I still need to capture some old VHS tapes).

Also, sounds like most are using an HDMI splitter and avoiding passthrough...Im just curious if anyone has setup the HDPVR to take the output of their receiver instead, then passthrough to the TV (so as to have all HDMI devices connected to the HDPVR). Thanks!

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post #287 of 315 Old 09-09-2014, 08:11 PM
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Sorry if this has been covered before, didnt see it in a search.

I currently have the 1212, but thinking of finally switching to something that can capture via HDMI so I can get rid of some of the component cables in my system, and it sounds like it will have no problem capturing from my current receiver (HR24). My biggest question is will this work with RCTVcap? (or some other alternative command line capture program?). RCTVCap or something similar is pretty much essential for me to use this...I really hate the bulky software that came with the 1212. Some Amazon reviews seemed to indicate that it will, but Id like to verify that it works with both HDMI and component/optical on this device (have a component VHS deck I still need to capture some old VHS tapes).

Also, sounds like most are using an HDMI splitter and avoiding passthrough...Im just curious if anyone has setup the HDPVR to take the output of their receiver instead, then passthrough to the TV (so as to have all HDMI devices connected to the HDPVR). Thanks!


I believe receivers typically pass video only, so connecting to your receiver probably would not be ideal.

Also, one reason for using a splitter is that there are splitters available that remove HDCP.
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post #288 of 315 Old 09-09-2014, 09:28 PM
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I believe receivers typically pass video only, so connecting to your receiver probably would not be ideal.
Also, one reason for using a splitter is that there are splitters available that remove HDCP.
I can choose to pass thru audio to my TV with my Pioneer AVR.
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post #289 of 315 Old 09-10-2014, 01:25 AM
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Well I went ahead and bought one today as TigerDirect had one locally. Current setup is DirecTV -> PVR -> Onkyo Receiver -> TV. Recording fine using the packaged software. However, passthrough is only giving me video, no audio to the receiver or TV. I realize splitting would most likely resolve that problem, but I dont have a splitter yet, and Id like the option of using passthrough if I desire.

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post #290 of 315 Old 11-09-2014, 03:17 AM
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Remove commercials from TS files

Just received and installed a HD PVR 2 a few days ago. My configuration is:

..... Cable DVR component out > PVR2 > USB2 > Win7 PC.

I'm going to capture two hour 1920 x 1080 movies using Hauppauge Capture, to TS files.

1. Is there a free software that will allow me to manually remove commercials from a TS file without re-encoding, and save the result as one TS file?

2. If the TS file is less than 4.7 GB and I burn in on a standard DVD, will it play in a Bluray set-top player?

Thanks,
Skylark
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post #291 of 315 Old 11-09-2014, 06:45 AM
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I can only tell you what I use. I don't have much experience with free editing software. I use VideoReDo as it's pretty easy, can import and export/recode to a number of formats and you can burn a DVD directly from within the program. Those DVDs will play on just about any player, DVD and BD.

Now, if you want HD on a disc, then you either need to burn a Blu-Ray disc or do AVCHD... that's a standard DVD blank encoded to play high definition video on most BD players. For that you'll need to take the edited file from VideoReDo and use something such as tsmuxer to create the BD file structure, then imgburn to burn that to a DVD.

I used to do that with television shows for watching on the road, but now higher-capacity thumb drives are pretty cheap, I just stick 'em on one of those.

For movies, my BD player will play .mkv files and recognizes portable hard drives, though most of my viewing is via HTPC, so unless I'm sending something to my sister-in-law, I just don't deal much with discs, anymore.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.

Last edited by DrDon; 11-09-2014 at 06:56 AM.
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post #292 of 315 Old 11-09-2014, 10:58 AM
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I can only tell you what I use. I don't have much experience with free editing software. I use VideoReDo as it's pretty easy, can import and export/recode to a number of formats and you can burn a DVD directly from within the program. Those DVDs will play on just about any player, DVD and BD.

Now, if you want HD on a disc, then you either need to burn a Blu-Ray disc or do AVCHD... that's a standard DVD blank encoded to play high definition video on most BD players. For that you'll need to take the edited file from VideoReDo and use something such as tsmuxer to create the BD file structure, then imgburn to burn that to a DVD.

I used to do that with television shows for watching on the road, but now higher-capacity thumb drives are pretty cheap, I just stick 'em on one of those.

For movies, my BD player will play .mkv files and recognizes portable hard drives, though most of my viewing is via HTPC, so unless I'm sending something to my sister-in-law, I just don't deal much with discs, anymore.
Hi DrDon,

I didn't know AVCHD was a format that could be burned on a standard DVD and played in any BD player. Now that I know that, I can use the Arcsoft Showbiz program that came with my PVR2 since it appears to be able to edit TS files and burn them as AVCHD on standard DVDs. I see that it can even burn dual layer 8.5 GB DVDs which will allow me to up the video quality up to 8.5 GB per movie. Burning AVCHD movies on standard DVDs will only be for occasional movies to loan to my son so he can watch the movies at his home.

Since I will be archiving captured PVR2 movies for my own viewing on external hard drives, would saving them as AVCHD files after editing out commercials be a good way to go, as opposed to saving them as TS files? Showbiz can edit TS files but can only save them as AVCHD, AVI, MPEG1, QTMOV or WMV. It cannot save edited TS files back to a TS file.

EDIT: Googling AVCHD extension, I learned that AVCHD files are stored with the .MTS or .m2ts file extension, so ignore the 2nd paragraph above.

Thanks,
Skylark

Last edited by Skylark; 11-09-2014 at 11:07 AM.
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post #293 of 315 Old 11-10-2014, 10:01 AM
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Interlace artifacts on vertical edges

Recording from a HD PVR 2 1512 at 1080i on a Win7 PC, i5 cpu, 8GB ram.

If I record using Hauppauge Capture or Arcsoft Showbiz at 1080i, I see interlace combing on vertical edges on things that move fast, like a person running. Slow moving or static things don't exhibit the edge combing and the picture quality is excellent.

Using Hauppauge Capture, the file is in the TS format. Using Showbiz, I saved to the MPEG4 format. Tried 14 Mbps, 9 Mbps and 5 Mbps and the edge combing on fast moving objects still happens.

Is there a setting I need to make to get rid of the edge combing?

Thanks,
Skylark
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post #294 of 315 Old 11-10-2014, 04:27 PM
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I've been using the PVR 2 for more than a year now with HDMI input. I use the ArcSoft program to capture TS files most of the time.

I've seen a number of messages here about the capture file duration being wrong and ways to fix that, but just the other day I recorded a movie from the SyFy Channel off the cable DVR. I had watched the movie (FF thru commercials) and decided I would like to keep a copy, so the next day I played it back with the PVR 2 recording for the two hours.

When I looked at the resultant file, the duration was shown to be 38 minutes. I ran it through TS Doctor as I usually do, but the output file remained at 38 minutes and VideoReDo could not properly seek to portions of the file. I ran the (TS Doctor) file thru TsMuxer and that produced a file with the proper duration, but the audio was horribly out of sync after a certain point.

What I found was the cable company inserts "local" commercials at several points during the program and the transitions are not smooth- they cause the PVR 2 to lose sync with the signal for several seconds and it mucks up the file.
This looks like it happened twice during my program... at the 25 minute mark and 1:22 mark. I tried using TS Doctor Editor to rescue the parts I needed but it would not seek portions of the file.

In desperation (I had already deleted the program from the cable DVR!) I ran the "fixed" file thru TS Doctor a second time and then ran TSRemux on that file. This gave me a file of the proper duration which was acceptable to VideoReDo. The audio was in sync also. I edited out the commercials and all was well.

They will eventually re-run that movie, but I felt challenged to recover the program from the worst case (so far) trashed file I have seen.
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post #295 of 315 Old 11-10-2014, 05:17 PM
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Engineer, Are you using tsmuxer 1.10 or 2.6 ? What was your SEI setting? Insert if missing or always rebuild?
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post #296 of 315 Old 11-11-2014, 04:55 AM
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Engineer, Are you using tsmuxer 1.10 or 2.6 ? What was your SEI setting? Insert if missing or always rebuild?
I have TsMuxer 2.6. Settings are default- I'm on the learning curve for this stuff! Somehow I prefer TsRemux since it seemed to work better than TsMuxer 1.1 .

EDIT: Checked the other computer - TsMuxer 2.6.12 set to Insert SEI and VUI.

Last edited by Engineer99; 11-11-2014 at 05:45 AM. Reason: clarification
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post #297 of 315 Old 11-11-2014, 09:28 AM
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I have TsMuxer 2.6. Settings are default- I'm on the learning curve for this stuff! Somehow I prefer TsRemux since it seemed to work better than TsMuxer 1.1 .
EDIT: Checked the other computer - TsMuxer 2.6.12 set to Insert SEI and VUI.
If you have a chance, change the setting to 'always rebuild SEI' when using Tsmuxer 2.6
I havent had a chance to test it myself yet but it might fix the 'stutter' in the file created by missing frames or corrupt timecode.
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post #298 of 315 Old 11-11-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by nikknightt View Post
If you have a chance, change the setting to 'always rebuild SEI' when using Tsmuxer 2.6
I havent had a chance to test it myself yet but it might fix the 'stutter' in the file created by missing frames or corrupt timecode.
OK. I am thinking of creating a short file that is mucked up by hitting the "pause" button on my cable DVR momentarily.
This will allow some experimentation to see what works best. A five or ten minute file with a couple interruptions should be easy enough to create.

I'll probably have some time later this week.
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post #299 of 315 Old 11-11-2014, 10:21 AM
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Recording from a HD PVR 2 1512 at 1080i on a Win7 PC, i5 cpu, 8GB ram.

If I record using Hauppauge Capture or Arcsoft Showbiz at 1080i, I see interlace combing on vertical edges on things that move fast, like a person running. Slow moving or static things don't exhibit the edge combing and the picture quality is excellent.

Using Hauppauge Capture, the file is in the TS format. Using Showbiz, I saved to the MPEG4 format. Tried 14 Mbps, 9 Mbps and 5 Mbps and the edge combing on fast moving objects still happens.

Is there a setting I need to make to get rid of the edge combing?

Thanks,
Skylark
I found the problem. The edge combing artifacts were only happening if I used VLC or GOM video players to view the videos on my HDTV set via HDMI from my PC. Edge combing was not happening when viewing the videos on my computer monitor using VLC or GOM.

So I tried the supplied "WinTV 7" to view the videos on my HDTV set and the edge combing artifacts don't happen anymore. Found that WinTV 7 cannot play the video saved as MPEG4 but it can play the video saved as a TS file. So I'll be capturing everything in the TS format from now on.

Hope this helps other newbies,
Skylark

Last edited by Skylark; 11-11-2014 at 11:13 AM.
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post #300 of 315 Old 11-14-2014, 09:48 PM
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..... Bump .....
You can try tsniper. i dont but others have.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TSSniper

Or you can search this thread to find and download a copy of Arcsoft TME (total media extreme) and/or showbiz. They originally came with the HDPVRs.. I think SHS was the author.
Hauppauge HDPVR-1212 Owner's Thread

Last edited by nikknightt; 11-14-2014 at 09:56 PM.
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