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post #1 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Not meant to be a Windows 8 complaint thread. Just reporting that Windows 8 is on pace to undersell Windows Vista which most people view as a flop for Microsoft. Something to consider when choosing an OS for your new HTPC.

An interesting read...

http://www.citeworld.com/consumerization/21526/windows-8-uptake-slows-third-straight-month
Quote:
Windows 8 uptake falls even farther behind Vista

by Gregg Keizer
March 01, 2013 12:34 PM via Computerworld
25

Windows 8's uptake pace slowed in February for the third straight month, an analytics company said today.

According to Net Applications, Windows 8's February usage share -- including what the firm labeled as "touch" for Windows 8 and Windows RT -- was 3% of all Windows PCs, up from January's 2.6%.

Windows 8's share increase in February was about four-tenths of a percentage point, smaller than January's gain, which in turn was smaller than either December's or November's.

The new operating system also fell further behind the pace set by Windows Vista in 2007: In its fourth month of availability, Vista powered approximately 4% of all Windows PCs. The full percentage point gap between Windows 8 and Vista was the largest so far in the tracking Computerworld has conducted.

This new trend bolsters the belief by many analysts that Windows 8 will have a very difficult time gaining traction because of a pair of factors: First, that users are put off by the dual-UI (user interface) approach of the OS, and second, that PC sales have been clobbered by a shift to tablets and smartphones, the vast majority of which run rivals' operating systems.

Windows 8's initial uptake trajectory also makes it more likely that the new operating system will be labeled as an even bigger flop than Vista, which was largely rejected by users, who stuck with the older XP until Windows 7 arrived.

The latter's uptake was a rocket ride compared to Windows 8's or Vista's: By the end of its fourth month on the market, Windows 7 had garnered a 9.7% share, more than three times Windows 8's.

Even the inclusion of touch, and Windows 8's ability to run on tablets, has not materially helped the OS. Net Applications' measurement of users running Windows 8 from the "Metro" UI increased by just two-hundredths of a percentage point last month, while that for Windows RT remained flat.

Microsoft may be looking at similar data, as this week the Windows group's director of communications, Christopher Flores, confirmed that the company would partner with OEMs to launch a second wave of promotions for Windows 8 hardware.

Last weekend, U.S. retailer Best Buy kicked off a two-week deal that discounted touch-enabled Windows 8 PCs by $100.

Net Applications also reported statistics on other editions of Windows.

Both Windows XP and Windows 7 returned to their usual trends, with XP losing half a percentage point to end February at 39% of all personal computers, or 42.6% of Windows-only machines. Meanwhile, Windows 7 gained under one-tenth of a point to climb to 44.6% of all PCs and 48.6% of all Windows PCs.

Windows XP has just over a year left in its tank. Microsoft plans to pull the support plug in April 2014, even if, as Net Applications' data hints, the 11-year-old operating system then powers more than 30% of all personal computers.

Net Applications measures operating system usage by tracking unique visitors to some 40,000 websites it monitors for clients.

Gregg Keizer covers Microsoft, security issues, Apple, Web browsers and general technology breaking news for Computerworld. Follow Gregg on Twitter at @gkeizer, on Google+ or subscribe to Gregg's RSS feed. His email address is gkeizer@computerworld.com.

- See more at: http://www.citeworld.com/consumerization/21526/windows-8-uptake-slows-third-straight-month#sthash.SAtWVs1K.dpuf

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post #2 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 08:45 PM
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Going to be really interesting to see the adoption rates now that the "promotion" periods have ended.

I know I for one will not be "upgrading" to Win 8...ever.
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post #3 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 09:15 PM
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The sad thing is Windows 8 is perfect for a HTPC. The front page is perfect once you got it set up for navigating with a remote. You can compare it to Vista all you want but I think the real issue here is tablets. I've purchased 4 tablets over the last 3 years and only upgraded the home computer once. Upgrading my computer use to be a yearly event for me if not sooner.
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post #4 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 09:19 PM
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Humm, well I like Windows 8. I won't go back to 7. If your HTPC is your sole media to your TV, the Netfix app is fantastic. If your ISP allows it, the 8 app has Netflix in super HD, with some programs in DD+. You won't get that on 7.
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post #5 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 09:29 PM
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There seems to be a trend with Windows, every other version is a 'flop'. Maybe the next version will be better.
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post #6 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 09:38 PM
 
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If it was not for locking people into the Metro interface, plus piss poor marketing like they did with Vista, the market share of moving people up and over would not be dropping faster than the stock market these next couple of weeks.

Plus add to it that you have workplaces like government agencies sticking with Windows XP still, that adds to a very slow adoption rate.

I have also found that the Realtek driver for Ethernet still after 14 years has not been fixed to stop one of many Blue Screen issues with Windows. You would think with 8, they would have eliminated that issue, but looks like it is still here to stay, like many other problems with the 6.x kernel.
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post #7 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 09:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjkusaf1 View Post

Going to be really interesting to see the adoption rates now that the "promotion" periods have ended.

I know I for one will not be "upgrading" to Win 8...ever.
Just do like I did. Install Start8 to get rid of going into Metro when logging in, and go straight to the desktop. Only time I go into metro, is to open a Command Window as administrator.
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post #8 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 09:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

There seems to be a trend with Windows, every other version is a 'flop'. Maybe the next version will be better.
ME was a flop. Dos 4.x was a flop. Vista was only a flop, because of the marketing. I have one machine that I still support that is Windows Vista, that a friend of ours owns. I am thinking about loading Windows 7 up on it if I can get her to bring it over, since I am no longer using my Win7 pro license (bought through Ultimatesteal.com), now that I am running Win8 Pro on my Netbook.
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post #9 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Just do like I did. Install Start8 to get rid of going into Metro when logging in, and go straight to the desktop. Only time I go into metro, is to open a Command Window as administrator.

Hopefully not turning this into *another* Windows 8 bash thread...but I don't want a 3rd party app to restore the "old school" start menu. After running the various Win8 releases on my older test notebook...I found no reason to install it on my HTPC/Desktop/Primary notebook. Only big benefit was the boot times...but they are minimal anyway considering the notebook hibernates, the HTPC sleeps and the desktop either sleeps or cold boots. In other words...Win7 works for me and I'll wait for future versions of Windows which provides me a reason to upgrade. Win8 isn't it though.
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post #10 of 86 Old 03-01-2013, 10:19 PM
 
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The problem with the future versions, is that you are going to be paying more in the long run to use, and will become even more cloud orientated than 8 is even now. Things started to go downhill when Microsoft made you have the Metro as your main interface, not able to choose between the desktop or the metro interface.

7 is still a good Operating System, and will be around just as long as XP has been at this point. I do not really see Microsoft getting any more inventive than the downhill slide that they created with Windows 8. Their only marketing that they are pushing right now is their whole tablet thing, not the Operating system, just the device. No one knows what they are getting into when they buy the Surface, because Microsoft forgot how to market their software after Byte magazine went out of print.
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post #11 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 06:38 AM
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I think the biggest problem is that Microsoft keeps trying to shove a new OS down our throats with greater frequency than most people are comfortable with. Instead of upgrading an OS every two years I think most of us like to stick with what we're used to for at least 3-4 years before making a switch. I've got a copy of Windows 8 on a spare PC, but I rarely even turn it on to try it out. The UI is just too much of a drastic change and I think it puts a lot of people off on trying it out, let alone make the switch altogether. The UI is not intuitive at all for anyone used to older versions of Windows. A Windows OS should be usable right off the bat without the need for tutorials just to perform even the most basic tasks.

I think Windows 8 would have been a greater success if Microsoft limited it to devices with a touch screen. They should have come up with a slightly different version for desktop users without the Metro UI. In many ways, Windows 8 is vastly superior to previous Windows versions. It certainly boots faster than any other version I've used, especially if you have a SATA III SSD and compatible motherboard. I can get into the main screen in under 10 seconds after pressing the power switch. The problem is, without prior knowledge of how the UI works, you have no idea what to do once you get to the Metro interface. The user is left scratching his or her head trying to figure out what to do. This is inexcusable for a Windows OS. The first time I used Internet Explorer in Win 8 I couldn't figure out how to close it and return to the desktop. I ended up just shutting off the PC and going back to my Windows 7 computer.
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post #12 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 06:46 AM
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They needed more programs to utilize the metro interface...it's kinda like exiting your HTPC software (medibrowser,xbmc) and going to the desktop for something quickly. It breaks the experience.

I was hoping that they had found a way to make like 90% of what I would need to do on a normal desktop be possible with the metro ui. It is just not ready...

Everytime I open a program in the metro ui and it launches on the normal desktop...it really feels....cheap.
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post #13 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 07:30 AM
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I first installed Windows 8 Pro on a laptop/tablet convertible with touch screen. I liked the new interface, though I do operate in desktop more than in metro. The modest hardware, an older HP, liked the OS, too. Metro is nice, however, on planes when I use the unit for entertainment. I have TMT 5, MB, and WMC installed and experience no problems with any. I have an xBox Music Pass and the unit is one of the four allowed to download non-purchased music for offline use. With such a positive experience, I purchased a new mobo, cpu, and ssd for one of my HTPCs. I reinstalled Windows 7 Ultimate on the original ssd and installed Windows 8 Pro on the new ssd for a dual boot option. One of the problems with that is that each OS counts as one xBox Music Pass device of the total 4 allowed for downloading non-purchased music. But, because I was having an ever more positive experience with Windows 8, I eventually removed the Windows 7 OS as one of the allowed 4 devices from the xBox Music Pass. Within the last two months, I have booted into the Windows 7 OS less and less. I expect that, soon, I will remove Windows 7 entirely. Though I have a purchased copy of TMT 6, I have not yet installed it. WMC, MB, and TMT 5 are working well on the Windows 8 boot for the HTPC. Obviously, the 55" Panasonic plasma with which I use the HTPC is not touch screen. However, I have no problem navigating with any of my many remotes, though my preferred remote is the old Gyration rather than the newer Harmony. My other two HTPCs have older hardware. I am hesitant to put Windows 8 on either, though, just for the experience, I might try it on one of those as well to see how the older hardware responds. I am OS agnostic. I run an unRAID (modified Linux Slackware) box, a Myth Ubuntu box, a Mac Mini, a Mac Pro Book, and an Apple TV box, in addition to numerous Microsoft boxes with things such as NT Server, XP Pro, Server 2008 and 2012, and Windows 7 running on a variety of hardware and form factors. Because of ease of operation and inter-connectibility to other clients, I use the Microsoft stuff more than the other OSs. Certainly, I also have no interest in a war over whether Windows 8 or 7 is better. I am only reporting my experience.
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post #14 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 10:52 AM
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My take on it is this:

Biggest pro: Windows 8 is great for touchscreens and mobile devices
Biggest con: Windows 8 is great for touchscreens and mobile devices

I think Microsoft's huge mistake was Metro. Or rather, having no option but Metro. You can see their thinking, that they wanted one OS and front end for the whole spectrum of devices: but desktops aren't mobiles or tablets. Most people don't have touchscreens and nor are they likely to given the costs. As a desktop user I couldn't care less about having bandwidth sucking trash like weather updates or verbal diarrhea sites such as Twit-verse permanently running, although I understand they are a major pre-occupation on mobile toys.

The sad thing is that Win8 has improvements under the hood, but they are eclipsed by the pain that is Metro. If MS had just allowed the user to select classic Windows or Metro then all would have been well, although I think in that case many users would have questioned exactly what they were getting for their money.

It comes as absolutely no surprise that MS are having a hard time selling this even at the virtually give-away discount prices, which are I think about the cheapest Windows release ever. They are too late for the mobile and tablet market and trying too hard in those areas did nothing but annoy their strongest user base, the desktop

I'm always bemused by Win8 fanbois provlaiming "just download xyz to turn Metro back into a Win7 interface and it;s great", well, Metro was supposed to be the New Big Thing!

I'm definitely sticking with Win7 until it;s no longer supported. When it;s not I'll see whether Win11 is any good, or to just jump ship off the good ship MS Bloatware and use something like Linux anyway
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post #15 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 11:14 AM
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I've said this before. I don't see sales of any OS in desktop/laptop use to ever have the same installed base as Win7 due to the shift from PC's to tablets. This has nothing to do with the merits of the particular OS.

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post #16 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 11:38 AM
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I just think the market is currently happy with W7. It's a good product and most already own it. There's little reason to upgrade from it which is the main reason for slow sales.

Majority of windows 8 sales is due to new PC hardware- which is not exactly selling very well in this market.

When new hardware and software comes out that requires the new OS- then it will take off. Probably will be windows 9 by that time. I see no disaddvantage to running my W7 x64 PRO which is why I stayed with it. It was not because of $$.
There needs to be a need for the product for it to sell well.

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post #17 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I just think the market is currently happy with W7. It's a good product and most already own it. There's little reason to upgrade from it which is the main reason for slow sales.

Majority of windows 8 sales is due to new PC hardware- which is not exactly selling very well in this market.

When new hardware and software comes out that requires the new OS- then it will take off. Probably will be windows 9 by that time. I see no disaddvantage to running my W7 x64 PRO which is why I stayed with it. It was not because of $$.
There needs to be a need for the product for it to sell well.

This is the reason I think. I don't think that will change. In the typical corporate office world there is no need to update anything. The current processors along with Win7 work very well. They may update some things but for corporations already on file servers all the drive space improvements over Win7 are really not much of an improvement. The consumer is shifting to tablet and is very pleased already with Win7 (or even XP) for their PC's as most consumers don't mess with servers and multiple drives anyhow.

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post #18 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Just do like I did. Install Start8 to get rid of going into Metro when logging in, and go straight to the desktop. Only time I go into metro, is to open a Command Window as administrator.

Why would you even need metro for cmd as admin? Just hit the start button/win key and type cmd. Then right click on the search result and run as admin.

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post #19 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Plus add to it that you have workplaces like government agencies sticking with Windows XP still, that adds to a very slow adoption rate.

Actually, most government agencies don't use XP at all, because most DoD agencies have network policies in place that don't allow XP to be used anymore, except in standalone systems. I believe you'll find most government agencies use Windows 7 for both unclassified and classified systems, simply because of the 3 year computer replacement cycle. The agency I work for has no XP systems anymore.
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post #20 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 02:19 PM
 
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Because I am lazy and also the Win key takes you back to Metro in Win8 btw. I keep forgetting that with Start8, it is in the System Tools menu. We all know that there is more than one way to skin a cat in Win8, but really the whole Metro thing is just a big PITA, especially with Server 2012 and Exchange 2013.
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post #21 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Because I am lazy and also the Win key takes you back to Metro in Win8 btw. I keep forgetting that with Start8, it is in the System Tools menu. We all know that there is more than one way to skin a cat in Win8, but really the whole Metro thing is just a big PITA, especially with Server 2012 and Exchange 2013.

Must be a Start8 thing. Startisback lets you have the Win key mapped to Start menu like Win7. Ctrl+Win goes to Metro for me.

The official new way to get the CMD admin is to hit Win+X then "Command Prompt (Admin)".

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post #22 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 04:46 PM
 
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I just realized that I had it set for "Windows 8 Menu", not "Start8 Menu", which brings back the old behavior. Leave it to Operator Error on this one. As you can tell, I am one of those old school guys, that is still getting used to some of the changes with 8. I have looked up the shortcuts that changed with 8, but never made a copy of it. Just figure that if I need to find it out, just would do a help search.

Thanks Bryansj, from a guy that has been around this stuff for over 35 years now, and still getting used to the new OS. Only has been about a month that I have been using 8 on my Netbook. Took me the past two weeks to try and figure out why I kept getting a bsod on it, and come to find out, it was due to the June 2012 Realtek Ethernet driver that was causing it. My brother pointed me to use "WhoCrashed", which helped in figuring out what was going on with the Memory.dmp file.
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post #23 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kegobeer View Post

Actually, most government agencies don't use XP at all, because most DoD agencies have network policies in place that don't allow XP to be used anymore, except in standalone systems. I believe you'll find most government agencies use Windows 7 for both unclassified and classified systems, simply because of the 3 year computer replacement cycle. The agency I work for has no XP systems anymore.
I don't work for a government agency, but I do work for a DoD contractor. We're still using XP throughout our company, but we're in the process of switching over to Windows 7. We also have a 3-year leasing arrangement and all of our PCs are leased on a staggered basis which means we only get new PCs or upgrades when it's our turn. OTOH, aside from new PCs arriving with Windows 7, existing PCs are slowly being transitioned over to Windows 7. Like the majority of consumers, we tend to skip every other OS release. In our case, every bit of software we use has to be tested and approved by our IT department before it can be installed. The result is that we tend to lag behind at least one or two versions in most every app we use, with but few exceptions. I suspect we'll totally bypass Windows 8 altogether and won't upgrade again until Windows 9 at the earliest.
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post #24 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 05:19 PM
 
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Captain_Video, our state has not even stated when they are moving us off of XP to 7, even though they purchased thousands of Lenovo ThinkCentre M series workstations, with AMD CPU's just about a year ago. We have been told that the hold up is that they are still moving legacy apps to other formats, but it is personally just pure laziness on Illinois's CMS IT group that is holding stuff up.
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post #25 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kegobeer View Post

Actually, most government agencies don't use XP at all, because most DoD agencies have network policies in place that don't allow XP to be used anymore, except in standalone systems. I believe you'll find most government agencies use Windows 7 for both unclassified and classified systems, simply because of the 3 year computer replacement cycle. The agency I work for has no XP systems anymore.

I'm not sure what agency you look for, but apparently you'd be surprised. WinXP SP2 (that's right, SP2) is widely used in DoD. Many agencies are scrambling to move to Windows 7 before MS stopped patching Windows XP.
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post #26 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I think Windows 8 would have been a greater success if Microsoft limited it to devices with a touch screen.

They'd probably like it if all laptops (and maybe desktops) had touchscreens, but that wasn't going to happen due to cost. MS certainly wasn't just going to limit it to tablet-like machines. How would they get anyone to develop for Win8 metro if they did that?
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post #27 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

I have also found that the Realtek driver for Ethernet still after 14 years has not been fixed to stop one of many Blue Screen issues with Windows. You would think with 8, they would have eliminated that issue, but looks like it is still here to stay, like many other problems with the 6.x kernel.

Um.... this problem is Realtek's to fix... not Microsoft's.
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post #28 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 09:57 PM
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Touch is not going to work with a desktop PCs unless someone comes up with something drastically different than touchscreens. Moving your hand from keyboard to mouse is enough of an egonomic issue. Now having three input devices: keyboard, mouse and monitor? Or, even just keyboard and touch monitor would be bad enough. What strange shoulder ailments or wrist ailments will come from that? Egonomic Nightmare.

 

 

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post #29 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 10:11 PM
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I slap the hand that gets within a foot of my monitor.. Touch is not going to work for me on a PC ever.

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post #30 of 86 Old 03-02-2013, 11:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

I have also found that the Realtek driver for Ethernet still after 14 years has not been fixed to stop one of many Blue Screen issues with Windows. You would think with 8, they would have eliminated that issue, but looks like it is still here to stay, like many other problems with the 6.x kernel.

Um.... this problem is Realtek's to fix... not Microsoft's.
Actually it is both, because this issue has been around since XP pre-SP1. That means it is now going on 14 years, since both have allowed the problem to stay around, without fixing it.
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