Should I Give Up on Ceton? - AVS Forum
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, let me preface this with the following:

I love Ceton. I think they are the most innovative company in the home theater space. Period.

They have done something remarkable; they've continued to spark life into Windows Media Center for several years and have kept me from wanting any other DVR / distributed TV system in my life.

However, I feel constantly let down by their products, and recently, their support is horrible.

I started my investment when the InfiniTV4 was first announced. I pre-ordered 3 of them just to make sure I'd get one.

When i finally did get one, I loved it, and got many friends interested and they bought them too.

I used it to build the system I discussed on http://www.hdhomesportsbar.com and it worked out just great....well, actually I have to restart my HTPC every 2 days on a schedule otherwise the InfiniTV4 disappears from Windows and we lose our tuners for our DVR, but otherwise, great.

So, fast forward a few years. I'm doing a major basement renovation in a new home. More TVs, bigger screens, a real bar this time.

I bought an Echo in December ( I didn't make the beta cut ) and used it to replace a DMA 2100 in our bedroom. It worked great, it was fast and quiet.

So for the basement, this was to be my extender.

I have 4 42" TVs going in to augment the 120" main screen, and I decided that I'd move the Xbox 360 I've been using on our 65" DLP down as the extender for the 120", and would use another Echo.

Ok, that makes an order of 5 more Echos for a total of 6 in the house, and 2 Xbox 360s.

Before I did that, I decided I should probably get another InfiniTV 4 so I'd have enough tuners for all the TVs, and still be able to have some shows recording.

Here starts the trouble.

I bought a 2nd InfiniTV 4, went through the CableCard dance with Comcast, went through 2 exchanges with the office assuming I had been given bad cards, and then they had to roll a truck - I couldn't get paired. They sent a decent tech and he tested the cards he was using against my working InfiniTV4 and we found out it wasn't the cards, it was the InfiniTV4.

So, after hours of my time, and paying for a truck-roll, Ceton tech support acknowledged the problem and RMA'd the unit. (Ticket ID: VAJ-466-10305)

I will say this; once you jump through the hoops to get an RMA, the process, at least for the InfiniTV4's, is great. They took my credit card as a deposit, and cross-shiped me a new card 2nd day and the new one worked just fine. One of my friends that bought an InfiniTV4 after seeing my setup had the same experience.....which makes me wonder just how much RMA'ing is going on....

Now I had an HTPC with 2 InfiniTV4s! And yeah, I still have to restart my HTPC every 2 days or the first InfiniTV will flake out and disappear, but, tolerable.

Ha, "tolerable", what else would want from $600 in tuner cards on top of the cost of an HTPC???

Despite the hellstorm of negativity I saw with the Echo beta tests, I was really happy with the Echo that I bought and am running in our bedroom, so I jumped in; January 12th, I ordered 5 more Echos.

$895

Steep. But, I had a vision in mind for how I want to control everything and how I want to be able to use 2 cable cards to feed everything in our house. I believe in what Ceton is doing.

I did.

I am finally at the stage of my project now where I'm able to install the TVs and Echos, and the last week has been hell.

I did everything you'd want in a new build meticulously, everything was pre-wired, tested, ordered in advanced, ready to drop in.

What should be simple; plug in power, plug in Ethernet, plug in HDMI, pair with Media Center. What a nightmare and waste of my time.

Issue 1 - February 24th, 2013: Removing the Xbox 360 from the 65" Mitsubishi DLP in our living room and replacing with a Ceton Echo:

I thought the most annoying part about this was going to be re-programming my Harmony One, nope.

So, while every other HDMI device I've ever plugged into this TV has worked flawlessly, instantly I had problems with the Echo.

The HDMI connection would not properly handshake as the Ceton Echo booted up and started Media Center. Video would drop out. I set up audio to bypass HDMI and use the S/PDIF out so I could hear at least that the echo was on, and connected to Media Center, and that TV or content was playing, but the TV was blank.

February 25th, I submitted a ticket. After 3 hours I got a generic response, asking for diagnostics on both the Echo and the HTPC. I completed both within an hour, and sent support everything.

Today is March 4th, and I have not heard back. Not even an acknowledgement of a receipt of my diagnostics.

I've solved the issue, well, at least fixed it for now.

After a lot of research, I found out that this could be an HDMI EDID issue, and I ordered a Geffen HDMI Detective for $85.

In the time where I heard nothing from Ceton, I received the HDMI Detective, installed it, and all is well.

I updated the ticket to let Ceton know they have some sort of EDID issue - I haven't heard anything, but for an extra $85 my wife can still watch TV while I finish up the basement.

Issue 2 & 3.

Of the remaining 4 Echos, 2 installed just fine, and are working great. 2 are $185 bricks.

Here's the deal - I understand the sample size is far too low for me to say this authoritatively, but, Ceton, your failure rate in my experience is abhorrent!

1/2 of the InfiniTV4's, and 1/3 of the Echo's I've purchased are bricks and 1 is a brick wearing a life jacket.

But the worst part about this is, CETON KNOWS IT. Further, their support is inadequate.

When I finally discovered the issue with the 2 Echos that weren't working, and were putting themselves into recovery mode out of the box, I filed another ticket.

Ticket ID: JOP-949-91461

I filed this ticket at 3:00 PM Eastern on FRIDAY March 1st. Ceton's website says that we should expect / accept a 24 hour response period, and that support is available until 6PM Pacific Time Monday-Saturday.

Saturday Came and went, no response. Weekend lost for my install.

I did find all the info available about how to get the Windows 7 only recovery program, and the ludicrous button combination you need to enter to get into recovery mode, but also saw that I needed to get my MAC addresses white-listed so they could go through recovery

Today, March 4th, I finally got a response, and, after a few hours of ticket-lag, had both of my devices white-listed and was able to recover one of the echos, one will not recover, and the one that did recover will not pair with Media Center even after updates to the latest firmware(s).

The most frustrating part about this is the White-listing, and the waiting on Support. I'm not resolved at all on either of these units today, and I guess I can wait until tomorrow for support to ask for Diagnostics that I probably won't hear back about in a timely manner either....

Look, Ceton, you know there are some serious problems with the hardware you shipped in the Echo.

You know we are suckers and are crazy enough enthusiasts to be comfortable manually flashing our "consumer" hardware to try to get it working.

Why on Earth have you set up a process that requires us to submit tickets that aren't responded to quickly just to be "white-listed" to download a recovery image?

Ceton should absolutely put all of these materials together in their FAQ on their site, and let people openly try a recovery with a clean image, before they have to open a ticket.

The ticket process should just let us show you we've tried everything, and initiate the RMA process.

Ceton should pull their products until they iron all of this out, this is terrible.

Can you imagine your parents or normal people trying to use this stuff???

Total spent on Ceton Products for an incomplete, unstable system to date:

$1,580 and hours of my time...

I hate to have to take this to the public in this way, but I feel entirely dissatisfied in my investment in Ceton lately. Please, change my mind back.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:22 AM
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I feel your pain. I was in the Echo beta program and I went through two Echoes before sending mine back for a refund. I expect it will be a fine product when it matures, but my feeling is that it was released prematurely. I also have two InfiniTV4's in my HTPC and I was among the first to receive one in the initial batch that shipped. I bought a 2nd one when the price dropped to $299. I have since bought a 3rd unit with the intention of installing it in a HTPC I was putting together that never materialized so it's still in the box. Both installed tuners have performed flawlessly from day one, although I did have some minor glitches until I got a low pass filter to fix the MoCA issues on FIOS. Even at the oriiginal cost of $399 I think it's one of the best purchases I've ever made.

The one thing you have to keep in mind about Ceton is that they're a small niche company. I don't know how big their customer support staff is, but I'm guessing you can probably count them on one hand. Their customer support may be slow in getting back to you, but I've never had them not respond to a ticket. They handled the RMA on my first Echo within a few days of submitting a ticket and did the same for the RMA for a refund on the 2nd unit. I think my biggest problem with the Echo is that I expected something more than it turned out to be. Nobody in my house is a big fan of extenders so I got an Echo having high hopes that were never met. Lots of people are happy with them so there are obviously some good units out there.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:42 AM
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WOW! That's a solid wall of text up there.. Let me get some coffee going here and I'll BRB!!

EDIT:

How many echos are you using? WMC has a limit of 5 and you need a real powerful computer to support that many. Probably a quad core with at least 8 GB of RAM.

The recovery process is what it is. I've had to do that. It is pretty painless. This should probably be openly available with complete instructions on their site but I'm sure that ceton has a reason for not doing it that way.

To answer your original question, I don't think you should give up. I think the product was released too early to meet an artificial deadline of Holiday sales but I also believe that in the next couple months it should be a great product that will do things beyond what any other extender can do. I also don't think that there is a problem with the hardware. It is firmware that needs to be fixed. I can certainly feel your frustration. You bought a product and expected it to work right out of the box and it didn't. Currently mine is working very well as a PVR extender and even plays back many of my mkv's.

I cannot comment at all about the InfiniTV4 tuner because I have a Prime because I like the network functionality of that product. I think that ceton will eventually release the 6-tuner model as promised too but they are pretty tied up with getting the echo right at the moment.

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:09 AM
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In all seriousness @ OP I did read and feel your pain. (I needed a cup of coffee too wink.gif )

Situations like the ones you have described can be very frustrating.

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:43 AM
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To answer your question, yes, I think that you should give up. It's not a value judgment about whether Ceton is trying hard or not. That's irrelevant.


Ceton's products aren't where you need them to be for your usage model and may never be there.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:13 AM
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The OP needs an extender for WMC for a video wall of Live Sports. There is no reason to give up on ceton. The echo works fine in this application as does the Infinity4 tuner. The echo will do much more shortly too. What other option at the same price point do you offer? It doesn't look like there's room for xBoxes in this configuration and MiniITX's or NUC's will cost much more.

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Old 03-05-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Right, the Echos likely will be the right choice when they're all working.

And actually, I'm OK with there being defective hardware, if the RMA process is a little more expedient.

I'm sitting here literally waiting to finish my install and jumping through hoops when it seems unlikely that I'll ever be able to remedy with the tools provided, and know I'm headed for an RFI and just wasting days.

At this point, if I was in the 30 day window on Amazon, these 2 would already be on there way back and I would have just ordered 2 more on Prime and be done with it in 2 days.

Unfortunately I ordered the 5 of them more than 2 months ago and they sat unopened until last week.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

The OP needs an extender for WMC for a video wall of Live Sports. There is no reason to give up on ceton. The echo works fine in this application as does the Infinity4 tuner. The echo will do much more shortly too. What other option at the same price point do you offer? It doesn't look like there's room for xBoxes in this configuration and MiniITX's or NUC's will cost much more.

Used DMA2100s at half the price of the Echo. Work great right now, don't have to wait on Ceton to fix anything.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:33 AM
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For what the OP wants to do the echo works great too. The DMA2100's will never do anything more than it does right now as it has no support going forward. They are larger and make noise too.

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Old 03-05-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prindle19 View Post

Right, the Echos likely will be the right choice when they're all working.

And actually, I'm OK with there being defective hardware, if the RMA process is a little more expedient.

I'm sitting here literally waiting to finish my install and jumping through hoops when it seems unlikely that I'll ever be able to remedy with the tools provided, and know I'm headed for an RFI and just wasting days.

At this point, if I was in the 30 day window on Amazon, these 2 would already be on there way back and I would have just ordered 2 more on Prime and be done with it in 2 days.

Unfortunately I ordered the 5 of them more than 2 months ago and they sat unopened until last week.

You opened a ticket a week ago right when the extended return window for beta testers closed. You may have been lost in the shuffle of that. Try a PM to Erik or Motz over at the green button.

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Old 03-05-2013, 12:31 PM
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A ticket is not customer support. A phone number on the side of the box is.
Joining a forum so you can PM Eric is not customer support.

Ceton has a company history. The 6 turner infinity will be pushed out too soon. And it too will need a firmware update.

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Old 03-05-2013, 12:37 PM
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Hey there, I have read through your entire thread post and am sorry about the issues that you are experiencing and the delay in response from support for recovery of your units. While I am not official support since I am a developer I often browse these forums and most of the time TGB forums and can help people our.

The ticket system is setup first in, first out for every response even if it is a new ticket or a response to a ticket. Obviously sometimes things might be delayed depending on the number of tickets and when you submitted it to us.

I will PM you my email address and you can hop onto gchat if you need me to enable recovery for you and walk you through anything.

Software Developer on My Media Center -> Ceton Corp.

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Old 03-05-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post

A ticket is not customer support. A phone number on the side of the box is.
Joining a forum so you can PM Eric is not customer support.

Ceton has a company history. The 6 turner infinity will be pushed out too soon. And it too will need a firmware update.

A phone number is worthless too if it just puts you in an infinite do loop of voice prompts or gives you self help instructions that do not help with what you need. The ticket and email method works much better in the 21st century as it is more efficient.

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Old 03-05-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post

A ticket is not customer support. A phone number on the side of the box is.
Joining a forum so you can PM Eric is not customer support.

Ceton has a company history. The 6 turner infinity will be pushed out too soon. And it too will need a firmware update.
There was a huge debate about Ceton and the lack of a phone number in another thread. You'll get better response from these guys via e-mail or by submitting a ticket.

Ceton definitely has a company history, and so far it's been one of innovative products and excellent customer support from what I've seen first hand. I would not expect any problems with the InfiniTV6 since the InfiniTV4 firmware is quite mature and stable at this point. The InfiniTV6 was announced at the same time as the InfiniTV4 so I don't see how you could even consider that it would be released too soon. If anything, it's extremely late. BTW, it's called a tuner and not a turner. rolleyes.gif
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:39 PM
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I'm cool without a phone number. The telephone sucks and can only increase frustrations.

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Old 03-05-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prindle19 View Post

So, while every other HDMI device I've ever plugged into this TV has worked flawlessly, instantly I had problems with the Echo.

The HDMI connection would not properly handshake as the Ceton Echo booted up and started Media Center. Video would drop out. I set up audio to bypass HDMI and use the S/PDIF out so I could hear at least that the echo was on, and connected to Media Center, and that TV or content was playing, but the TV was blank.

February 25th, I submitted a ticket. After 3 hours I got a generic response, asking for diagnostics on both the Echo and the HTPC. I completed both within an hour, and sent support everything.

Today is March 4th, and I have not heard back. Not even an acknowledgement of a receipt of my diagnostics.

I've solved the issue, well, at least fixed it for now.

After a lot of research, I found out that this could be an HDMI EDID issue, and I ordered a Geffen HDMI Detective for $85.
This caught my attention. I've had problems with the Ceton Echo in my bedroom, connected through a Yamaha YPS-2200: sound but no video. I had warranty work done on the Yamaha (they replaced the main circuit board), and the problem persisted. Cycling the power on the Yamaha would fix the problem, but with time I'd have to cycle the power more than once. I brought the Yamaha back to the service center, and they're going to give another try.

I thought it was a problem with the Yamaha, because the Apple TV plugged into the Yamaha (also HDMI) didn't display properly either. I tested both the Echo and the Apply TV going directly into the TV set, and they both work. Now, having read your description of the HDMI EDID issue, I wonder: is there something about the Echo's signal that could be damaging the circuit board in the Yamaha?

--Dean L. Surkin
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:19 PM
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AFAIK, none of the recent f/w updates have been related to EDID at all. I think there was a few during the beta and I thought that was all ironed out. If you have a suspicion that there is a problem with it in your case maybe you should get in touch with ceton (ticket?) and see if they can at least look at your logs to see what might be going on.

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Old 03-05-2013, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

For what the OP wants to do the echo works great too. The DMA2100's will never do anything more than it does right now as it has no support going forward. They are larger and make noise too.
True that the Linksys, HP, and D-Link extenders won't ever receive any updates. I can't speak for the D-Link extenders (they didn't receive very good reviews so I never tried one), but the Linksys and HP extenders are much more stable than the Echo. I have a Linksys DMA-2100, a Linksys DMA-2200, and three HP X280N's. The Linksys extenders make ZERO noise (no moving parts, just like the Echo). The HP extenders have a small cooling fan, but it is inaudible from more than a few feet (1 meter).

The big thing for me is that the Linksys and HP extenders work better than the Echo. I was part of the Echo beta. The Linksys and HP extenders are more stable, plain and simple. I received my Echo in October 2012. After four months of nothing but problems, I returned it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:34 PM
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A phone number is worthless too if it just puts you in an infinite do loop of voice prompts or gives you self help instructions that do not help with what you need. The ticket and email method works much better in the 21st century as it is more efficient.
My experience with Ceton's ticket system was positive when I owned a Ceton InfiniTV4. I was among the early adopters. My first InfiniTV was DOA, and Ceton cross-shipped a new one overnight. To their credit, I bought the tuner on e-bay (because I didn't want to wait for the 4-month back-order), and Ceton honored their warrantee anyway.

I had a different problem later, and I tried the Silicondust HD HomeRun Prime to see if it would resolve the issue after getting nowhere with Ceton. The HD HomeRun Prime didn't fix the problem, but I liked several things about it better (faster tuning, no "spinning circle" when I resumed from standby, and better stability), so I kept it and sold my InfiniTV4. To be fair, I've read that some of the many firmware/software/driver updates for the InfiniTV have resolved some of these problems since I sold mine, but I was so happy with my HD HomeRun Prime that I bought another one.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:51 PM
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I'm cool without a phone number. The telephone sucks and can only increase frustrations.
+1. I'd rather send an e-mail and not sit on the phone on hold while listening to some lame elevator music for 40 minutes until someone can answer the phone. I've lost count of the hours I've spent on hold only to get cut off and have to start over again from scratch. Contacting customer service live via phone is highly overrated, IMHO. With e-mail, you send it and then go about your business. Check your inbox occasionally for a response and then deal with it after they get back to you. It may take a bit longer, but it's far less frustrating and time consuming. Ceton's got the right idea for customer service issues. When your ticket comes up in the queue they'll get back with you and provide instructions to take the next step.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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For an update, Ceton reached out today and is RMA'ing both of the bricked Echos after we were unable to resolve the issues with them.

Everyone I spoke with was extremely kind and apologetic for the inconveniences.

I'm hopeful that I'll get the RMA replacements and be up and running......


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Old 03-05-2013, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

With e-mail, you send it and then go about your business. Check your inbox occasionally for a response and then deal with it after they get back to you. It may take a bit longer, but it's far less frustrating and time consuming.

No, I disagree.

When you're trying to resolve an issue and you're dependent on support to go through a series of steps, it is best to be able to run through those steps as quickly as possible to troubleshoot the issue and escalate as necessary.

Sending off a ticket and not knowing when you're going to get a response when you're on a deadline is way more frustrating.

I understand that as a single purchase, an Echo isn't a high price item, and Ceton is a small company so support is going to be limited.

I'd just suggest that there was a far more exhaustive FAQ int his case and more tools available for us to try before needing to go to support in the first place.

If the device isn't for general consumers, and for enthusiasts, then there shouldn't be an issue with making more of the recovery tools available and letting us try to resolve issues ourselves, with the help of the community until we are fairly confident that we've exhausted everything we can do ourselves. At that point, a support system that could verify we've tried everything suggested, and if we're not resolved, initiate an RMA would be OK.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Prindle19 View Post

Sending off a ticket and not knowing when you're going to get a response when you're on a deadline is way more frustrating.
Anything to do with media extenders is generally more of a hobby than a profession so I don't see where there's any sort of a deadline involved other than being impatient to get it done. Dealing with any sort of HTPC issues can sometimes require a lot of patience to resolve and the Echo is no exception. Ceton may be slow, but they will eventually get back to you. I'm sure the Echo has caused a lot more support tickets to be generated so your wait time has increased as a result. If the time lag isn't to your liking then you might want to take your business elsewhere. Problem is, aside from the X-Box, the Echo is the only extender currently on the market. Griping about it won't change a thing other than making you feel better. I understand your frustration, but it is what it is. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and wait it out. The good news is that once Ceton gets to you they're very responsive in getting your issue resolved.

FWIW, I've dealt with companies that have far worse customer support than Ceton. In fact, I just recently dealt with a company that I purchased a camcorder from back in October of last year. I refused delivery on it since it took them over three weeks to get it to me and I needed it by a certain date, which they missed completely. I returned the unit unopened and I only just got a refund from them last week. Ceton is lightning fast compared to those guys.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Update:

Ceton RMA'd both devices; I went with the "Advanced RMA" which is a cross ship and got them within 3 days.

I received 2 new echo's and they both started up, and connected to media center flawlessly.

I did notice that they shipped with the beta firmware which is interesting.

I'm pretty sure the ones that had failed and are going back had the original release firmware.

Thank you Ceton for getting me up and running for my install this weekend!

For now, with everything working, I'm back off the edge and a happy Ceton supporter.

The biggest difference however was getting to talk to someone on the phone. I guess I'm old-fashioned but it makes a world of difference to have someone with compassion from the company to talk to.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prindle19 View Post

Update:

Ceton RMA'd both devices; I went with the "Advanced RMA" which is a cross ship and got them within 3 days.

I received 2 new echo's and they both started up, and connected to media center flawlessly.

I did notice that they shipped with the beta firmware which is interesting.

I'm pretty sure the ones that had failed and are going back had the original release firmware.

Thank you Ceton for getting me up and running for my install this weekend!

For now, with everything working, I'm back off the edge and a happy Ceton supporter.

The biggest difference however was getting to talk to someone on the phone. I guess I'm old-fashioned but it makes a world of difference to have someone with compassion from the company to talk to.

Don't let that be known, you might get flamed in these parts!

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Old 03-08-2013, 02:32 PM
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The tuners can work excellently. They can also drive people off the cliff. I am sure Ceton might be more proactive with Echo support if they really had any solutions for them. Thousands of people are successfully using the tuners. They still don't perform as well as say a Tivo but they get the job done. My Tivo still has a cable card in it. But it has been there only for backup and right now it is just some laziness that is keeping me from wrapping up a couple of issues with my HTPC Ceton Host or the Tivo would be in the closet. and its cablecard carried back to the Comcast store.

Much of the problems people experience with the Tuners is signal quality... which people just keep plugging away at until they feed something better to the tuners, while the software grindingly, incrementally improves. . So, the software has matured but this has been a two year process and the users jack their signal quality up by hook and crook, so they ulitmatey get somewhere that is usable if not perfect..

For the poor Echo user having hell they are just stuck in it. The fortunate thing is they can buy a used legacy WME on fleaBay or just stick a PC where the Echo is. If you need a production tool you can't rely on an Ech. At least not if you have the kind of expectation of your AV experience most of the people who come to AVS have. Finally what exactly does the Echo bring to the table thatcan't easily be had much better with another device. The Ceton cablecard tuners were pretty much unique when they came to market.. They still are a low cost alternative to other 4 tuner cable TV DVR solutions. The Echo at this point is answer to a question nobody asked.

Just another blank signature.
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:02 PM
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See, I told you.. Like your echo(s)? Get flamed!

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Old 03-08-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

See, I told you.. Like your echo(s)? Get flamed!

What?

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Old 03-09-2013, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

The tuners can work excellently. They can also drive people off the cliff. I am sure Ceton might be more proactive with Echo support if they really had any solutions for them. Thousands of people are successfully using the tuners. They still don't perform as well as say a Tivo but they get the job done. My Tivo still has a cable card in it. But it has been there only for backup and right now it is just some laziness that is keeping me from wrapping up a couple of issues with my HTPC Ceton Host or the Tivo would be in the closet. and its cablecard carried back to the Comcast store.

Much of the problems people experience with the Tuners is signal quality... which people just keep plugging away at until they feed something better to the tuners, while the software grindingly, incrementally improves. . So, the software has matured but this has been a two year process and the users jack their signal quality up by hook and crook, so they ulitmatey get somewhere that is usable if not perfect..

For the poor Echo user having hell they are just stuck in it. The fortunate thing is they can buy a used legacy WME on fleaBay or just stick a PC where the Echo is. If you need a production tool you can't rely on an Ech. At least not if you have the kind of expectation of your AV experience most of the people who come to AVS have. Finally what exactly does the Echo bring to the table thatcan't easily be had much better with another device. The Ceton cablecard tuners were pretty much unique when they came to market.. They still are a low cost alternative to other 4 tuner cable TV DVR solutions. The Echo at this point is answer to a question nobody asked.
If you're having issues with signal quality then that's a problem your provider needs to fix. It's not the fault of the InfiniTV4 if the signal isn't up to snuff. The InfiniTV4 has a wide tolerance for signal level variations.

I also used to have Tivos for recording and kept mine as a backup after getting my first InfiniTV4 just in case of a problem. I had the Tivo on my FIOS account for at least six months after getting the InfiniTV4 and never had to rely on it once for a recording.

The InfiniTV4 is just a tuner so I'm not sure how you can say it doesn't perform as well as a Tivo. The tuner just receives the signal from your provider and directs it to your hard drive for recording. The InfiniTV4 works every bit as good as a Tivo in that regard, if not better. The rest of the process is handled by your PC hardware and software. If you think your HTPC isn't performing as well as a Tivo then you need to look at something other than the tuners. I was an early adopter of Tivos and ReplayTVs from the beginning. I am now Tivo-less for the first time in about thirteen years and couldn't be happier.

The Echo is another matter entirely. You either love it or you hate it. I was involved in the beta program and got one of the first units. I returned mine a couple of weeks ago just before the window closed on the extended return policy. This device was definitely released far too soon and probably should have undergone another six months of development to fix the bugs that still haunt it. There are still too many features lacking, IMHO, that are crucial to its success. It's definitely got great potential, but it's nowhere near mature enough to be considered a final product.
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

See, I told you.. Like your echo(s)? Get flamed!

Not seeing this, he wasn't talking to you personally. I think you're way too sensitive about anyone posting negs for the Echo, or you don't know what a flame is.
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