AMD Richland (codename “Annapurna”) APU Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn't Trinity just come out? On the heels of Trinity comes Richland, supposedly landing on March 19th.

APU Lineup:
  • A10-6800K Radeon HD 8670D 844 MHz/ Quad Core 100W, 4.1 GHz/4.4 GHz
  • A8-6600K Radeon HD 8570D 844 MHz/ Quad Core 100W, 3.9 GHz/4.2 GHz
  • A10-6700 Radeon HD 8670D 844 MHz/ Quad Core 65W, 3.7 GHz/4.3 GHz
  • A8-6500 Radeon HD 8570D 800 MHz/ Quad Core 65W, 3.5 GHz/4.1 GHz
  • A6-6400K Radeon HD 8470D 800 MHz/ Dual Core 65W, 3.9 GHz/4.1 GHz
  • A4-6300 Radeon HD 8370D 760 MHz/ Dual Core 65W, 3.7 GHz/3.9 GHz

Features:
Compatibility with FM2, targeted to A85X and a new A88X chipset
DDR3-1866 MHz
14x USB 2.0 ports
4x USB 3.0 ports
8x SATA 6GB/s
AMD’s HD 8000 series graphics based on the ‘Southern Island’ GCN architecture
Dual-GPU support with Radeon HD 7000 discrete graphic solutions.

News/Links:
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013030503_AMD_Richland_processors_to_launch_in_March.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013012601_Specifications_of_upcoming_Richland_APUs.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Kabini-Richland-APU-Release,20888.html
http://gamingio.com/2013/02/amds-next-gen-apus-benchmarked-details-and-launch-schedule-also-leaked/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Unit#2013_platforms

It will be interesting to see what actually gets released come March 19th and what the reviews look like. I am hoping for better power consumption and better heat management.


 

 

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post #2 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 01:16 PM
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Any Pricing? If I were to build today I'd go with one of these for the iGPU.

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post #3 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 01:23 PM
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I am interested as well.

The 2 big cons to me with AMD in regards to HTPC remain the heat and potential driver issues (drivers are almost entirely aimed toward the gamer which frustratingly has historically caused major issues for the niche HTPC user as one driver fixes one issue while replacing it with a completely different issue or set of issues). Fix both of those and you really have something with this new release. AMD has been known to far exceed what they report as their TDP.

Also when discussing pricing here if you have to add a $40 aftermarket CPU cooler it negates some of the cost savings.
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post #4 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 01:24 PM
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These may be a derivative of what is coming in the PS4. Now that its hardware architecture is out of the bag, AMD has decided to soft release these.

Of course, I could just be blowing smoke...
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post #5 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 01:29 PM
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I'm fairly certain that the CPU's are getting a clock increase and nothing else. This is possible b/c GCN is a lot more energy efficient.

Assassin I have never heard of AMD surpassing there TDP, except on boards that push the voltage too high by default(I believe Intel has this problem also). Any links?

This shouldn't run any hotter than the A10-5xxx series so why would you need an aftermarket cooler?

Edit: There are a lot of posts on here about driver issues with Intel and Nvidia graphics.
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post #6 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

I'm fairly certain that the CPU's are getting a clock increase and nothing else. This is possible b/c GCN is a lot more energy efficient.

Assassin I have never heard of AMD surpassing there TDP, except on boards that push the voltage too high by default(I believe Intel has this problem also). Any links?

This shouldn't run any hotter than the A10-5xxx series so why would you need an aftermarket cooler?

Edit: There are a lot of posts on here about driver issues with Intel and Nvidia graphics.

I think the AMD driver issues aren't really debatable as even Reviewers mention them in many of the recent reviews for use in HTPC. With that being said they are a TON better than they used to be and I hope this is actually a thing of the past. Personally I was driven almost insane by AMD drivers in the past using 5xxx and 6xxx cards.

In regards to AMD never overshooting their TDP (largely irrelevant at load for HTPC but does underscore that they just run hotter than their Intel counterparts)...

Max TDP 100w







Most people suggest using an aftermarket cooler on the A8 or A10. I have tried an A8 in a smaller build and the heat is considerably more than the A6, A4, i3 or even the i5/i7. This has also been shared by StardogChampion with some of his smaller builds trying to use the larger AMD CPUs. Heat is definitely an issue with the Trinity A8 and A10 in many HTPC cases which may necessitate a larger and more expensive aftermarket cooler.
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post #7 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 02:21 PM
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Let me just add that I really like where AMD is headed. Its a niche but it something that they do different than Intel.

Someone needs to compete with Intel who last time I checked owned 80% or so of the desktop market (which is obviously what most HTPCs use)
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post #8 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 02:21 PM
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As an avid user of madVR and a discrete card to get intel to work with it, I already have those power/heat issues with the passively cooled Asus GT 430. I think that it is worth it as the picture is improved in places other than the over-rated frame drop "issue", IMHO.

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post #9 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

I'm fairly certain that the CPU's are getting a clock increase and nothing else. This is possible b/c GCN is a lot more energy efficient.

Assassin I have never heard of AMD surpassing there TDP, except on boards that push the voltage too high by default(I believe Intel has this problem also). Any links?

This shouldn't run any hotter than the A10-5xxx series so why would you need an aftermarket cooler?

Edit: There are a lot of posts on here about driver issues with Intel and Nvidia graphics.

The stock cooler may or may not be sufficient for the A10s. I think it would be at best very noisy and at worst insufficient resulting in throttling. I run a Big Shuriken 2 on my 65W A10-5700 in a Silverstone GD05B to be safe (600rpm idle, never seen it go above 1600rpm). From a glance at the stock cooler (not impressed), I agree with Assassin that one would probably want to use an aftermarket cooler, most definitely on the 100W APUs if not for the 65W ones.
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post #10 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I think the AMD driver issues aren't really debatable as even Reviewers mention them in many of the recent reviews for use in HTPC. With that being said they are a TON better than they used to be and I hope this is actually a thing of the past. Personally I was driven almost insane by AMD drivers in the past using 5xxx and 6xxx cards.

In regards to AMD never overshooting their TDP (largely irrelevant at load for HTPC but does underscore that they just run hotter than their Intel counterparts)...

Max TDP 100w







Most people suggest using an aftermarket cooler on the A8 or A10. I have tried an A8 in a smaller build and the heat is considerably more than the A6, A4, i3 or even the i5/i7. This has also been shared by StardogChampion with some of his smaller builds trying to use the larger AMD CPUs. Heat is definitely an issue with the Trinity A8 and A10 in many HTPC cases which may necessitate a larger and more expensive aftermarket cooler.

These are all total system power consumption. I doubt any of these processors are actually surpassing there TDP. I thought AMD came out with new heatsink's a couple months ago that solved these issues?

As far as the driver issues. They have come a long way. The only issue I have anymore when I reinstall Windows(I'm crazy and do it too often) is just setting overscan after I download the latest driver.
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post #11 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

These are all total system power consumption. I doubt any of these processors are actually surpassing there TDP. I thought AMD came out with new heatsink's a couple months ago that solved these issues?

As far as the driver issues. They have come a long way. The only issue I have anymore when I reinstall Windows(I'm crazy and do it too often) is just setting overscan after I download the latest driver.

I don't know of any data that shows just the cpu. If some exists please post.

As a side note many of the smaller cpu coolers are rated for 65w tdp. I have tried these on an a8 and a10 and it didn't go well. But for many htpc cases they are the only coolers that fit.
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post #12 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 04:14 PM
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AMD drivers today are light years better than two years ago. Just sayin'

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #13 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

AMD drivers today are light years better than two years ago. Just sayin'

Reviews I am referencing are from last fall. Still, they are likely reporting their experiences from the past which is light years ago in the tech world.

They are, indeed, much better. I just hope they don't revert back.
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post #14 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 04:27 PM
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AMD is superior to Nvivia for HTPC IMO for several reasons; First cost is lower, Second, performance is better, and last the control panel is more appropriate for HTPC. Also, 0-255 grey scale does not require any registry hacks, it's a simply toggle of a click. Making AMD more friendly for 16-235 or 0-255 (blacker than black and whiter than white)



Personally I think the Nvidia control panel is quite dated.

That said I use integrated intel graphics in my HTPC... lol.

HD4000 is fine for me, but I have been thinking I might add a card and have my eyes on an AMD. SVP auto detects level 4G on my HTPC, and I am thinking I can go 5G with a video card.

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post #15 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I don't know of any data that shows just the cpu. If some exists please post.

As a side note many of the smaller cpu coolers are rated for 65w tdp. I have tried these on an a8 and a10 and it didn't go well. But for many htpc cases they are the only coolers that fit.

I doubt cpu-only benchmarks exist. From peoples reactions I'm probably wrong on the included heatsinks, I always buy an aftermarket heatsink or use one I already have anyways though or at least change the TIM.
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post #16 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

I doubt cpu-only benchmarks exist. From peoples reactions I'm probably wrong on the included heatsinks, I always buy an aftermarket heatsink or use one I already have anyways though or at least change the TIM.

Intel's stock CPU fan is actually quite decent for many HTPCs. So is their thermal interface (data to back that up if you are interested).

I think once AMD gets their power usage down using their stock CPU should be possible and save a few twenties. Might be the release after this one though.
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post #17 of 142 Old 03-06-2013, 11:30 PM
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Keep in mind these parts will be competing with Haswell, not IVB.

Just another blank signature.
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post #18 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 03:17 AM
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Haswell can't compete even with Trinity in graphics performance:



(I don't trust this chart [from KitGuru] entirely, however.) Haswell GT3 (Intel HD Graphics 5200 / 5100) will be implemented only in mobile SKUs. All desktop Haswell have GT2 (Intel HD Graphics 4600), that's only 25% better than Intel HD Graphics 4000.

Where "graphics performance" means that in madVR, SVP (smooth video project), gaming, and whatever application that uses sharder units via Direct3D, OpenGL, OpenCL etc.
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post #19 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

Keep in mind these parts will be competing with Haswell, not IVB.

I thought Haswell wasn't supposed to have any performance boost associated with it(CPU side)? Just a TDP decrease?
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Another rumor says Kaveri supports DDR4 in FM3 socket (there may be two versions: FM2 with DDR3 and FM3 with DDR4).

Richland is just Trinity v2 (that's not even in earlier roadmap). Kaveri is a new product.
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post #23 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macks View Post

These are all total system power consumption. I doubt any of these processors are actually surpassing there TDP. I thought AMD came out with new heatsink's a couple months ago that solved these issues?

As far as the driver issues. They have come a long way. The only issue I have anymore when I reinstall Windows(I'm crazy and do it too often) is just setting overscan after I download the latest driver.

For what my own experience is worth on an internet forum smile.gif having built A10-5700 and A6-5400K systems, I can say that the A10-5700 with just the motherboard, CPU and one stick of RAM I get wattage readings almost double the 65W TDP, closer to 120W (not that I believe TDP = power consumption). However, surprisingly, the stock A10-5700 cooler I've found to work really well and not loud at all in comparsion to various other low-profile AMD aftermarket coolers I've tried so for mini-ITX builds where it fits I prefer it.

These are all mini-ITX builds with mini-ITX power supplies (120W or 180W DC powerboard/120W AC adapter or 150W AC adapter) with the MSI FM2 mini-ITX motherboard. Don't even talk to me about the ASRock FM2 A75 mini-ITX motherboard.

 

 

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post #24 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

Didn't Trinity just come out? On the heels of Trinity comes Richland, supposedly landing on March 19th.

APU Lineup:
  • A10-6800K Radeon HD 8670D 844 MHz/ Quad Core 100W, 4.1 GHz/4.4 GHz
  • A8-6600K Radeon HD 8570D 844 MHz/ Quad Core 100W, 3.9 GHz/4.2 GHz
  • A10-6700 Radeon HD 8670D 844 MHz/ Quad Core 65W, 3.7 GHz/4.3 GHz
  • A8-6500 Radeon HD 8570D 800 MHz/ Quad Core 65W, 3.5 GHz/4.1 GHz
  • A6-6400K Radeon HD 8470D 800 MHz/ Dual Core 65W, 3.9 GHz/4.1 GHz
  • A4-6300 Radeon HD 8370D 760 MHz/ Dual Core 65W, 3.7 GHz/3.9 GHz

Features:
Compatibility with FM2, targeted to A85X and a new A88X chipset
DDR3-1866 MHz
14x USB 2.0 ports
4x USB 3.0 ports
8x SATA 6GB/s
AMD’s HD 8000 series graphics based on the ‘Southern Island’ GCN architecture
Dual-GPU support with Radeon HD 7000 discrete graphic solutions.

News/Links:
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013030503_AMD_Richland_processors_to_launch_in_March.html
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013012601_Specifications_of_upcoming_Richland_APUs.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Kabini-Richland-APU-Release,20888.html
http://gamingio.com/2013/02/amds-next-gen-apus-benchmarked-details-and-launch-schedule-also-leaked/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Unit#2013_platforms

It will be interesting to see what actually gets released come March 19th and what the reviews look like. I am hoping for better power consumption and better heat management.


Trinity was a whole new architecture, I think this is just an update.
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post #25 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

For what my own experience is worth on an internet forum smile.gif having built A10-5700 and A6-5400K systems, I can say that the A10-5700 with just the motherboard, CPU and one stick of RAM I get wattage readings almost double the 65W TDP, closer to 120W (not that I believe TDP = power consumption). However, surprisingly, the stock A10-5700 cooler I've found to work really well and not loud at all in comparsion to various other low-profile AMD aftermarket coolers I've tried so for mini-ITX builds where it fits I prefer it.

These are all mini-ITX builds with mini-ITX power supplies (120W or 180W DC powerboard/120W AC adapter or 150W AC adapter) with the MSI FM2 mini-ITX motherboard. Don't even talk to me about the ASRock FM2 A75 mini-ITX motherboard.

The higher wattage probably boils down to the inefficiency of your power supplies. No HDD?
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post #26 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

The higher wattage probably boils down to the inefficiency of your power supplies. No HDD?

So, you're saying the mini-ITX power supply (basically the same as a picoPSU) is 50% efficient? LOL. We're done here.

 

 

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post #27 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

The higher wattage probably boils down to the inefficiency of your power supplies. No HDD?

Pretty much every review I've seen has the AMD APUs exceeding their TDP. Here's one from SilentPCReview's review of the A10-5700 where they estimate DC Watts based on the measured efficiency of the PSU at different load levels:


The A10-5700 probably shouldn't be going up to 120W but I wouldn't be too surprised to see it at 90+. The A10-5800K+ at 137W is a bit disturbing to say the least.
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post #28 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

So, you're saying the mini-ITX power supply (basically the same as a picoPSU) is 50% efficient? LOL. We're done here.

More like 70% efficiency.

At 70% efficiency you are looking at 120 * .7 = 84

84 =

65w cpu
2w ram
7w hdd
10w motherboard

Seems very reasonable to me. Just because it is similar to a picopsu doesn't mean it is as efficient.
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post #29 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

Pretty much every review I've seen has the AMD APUs exceeding their TDP. Here's one from SilentPCReview's review of the A10-5700 where they estimate DC Watts based on the measured efficiency of the PSU at different load levels:


The A10-5700 probably shouldn't be going up to 120W but I wouldn't be too surprised to see it at 90+. The A10-5800K+ at 137W is a bit disturbing to say the least.

For the last time that is total system power consumption. The CPU isn't the only thing that uses power.
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post #30 of 142 Old 03-07-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

For the last time that is total system power consumption. The CPU isn't the only thing that uses power.

Comparison with Intel processors (same configuration except processing + mobo):

The i3-2100 is 65W, and the i5-2500K is 95W. If AMD isn't overshooting TDP, then Intel must be undershooting. I'm not sure which is which, but the difference between measured and TDP is definitely bigger for AMD than Intel.

AMD is definitely getting better though. The A8-3850 Llano was also 100W TDP, and Trinity is much improved on that.
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