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Old 03-19-2013, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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First, this forum has helped me more than any other, so thanks in advance.

I have a dedicated HOME THEATER room with a projector and Onkyo receiver.

I have an HTPC located in another room with 2 HDMI outputs. One HDMI feeds the Onkyo receiver/projector and the other feeds a HD TV located in the same room with the HTPC.

I use MakeMKV to rip Blurays, and Assassin's excellent guide to set up WMC and Media Browser. All this works GREAT for the Receiver/Projector combo. I have 7.1 sound and so far EVERY rip has played as expected.

However, when I use the TV located right next to the HTPC, and run the WMC and Media Browser combo I generally only get PCM audio sources. How can I get audio from the TV? The HTPC is connected DIRECTLY to the TV. The TV is connected to a soundbar which works fine except as noted above.

When I use VLC I can hear audio for ALL movies using the TV. So I can at least play all my movies on the TV but I miss the look and feel of Media Browser...

What am I missing? Do I need to re-encode my MKV files from HD audio to a lesser audio format? Using MakeMKV I select ALL English audio formats. Do I need ANOTHER receiver just for the TV? I understand that the HTPC is outputting digital audio, but how does VLC handle it and not Media Browser?

Thanks,

David
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:00 AM
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So you have a soundbar connected to the tv via rca or optical? If it's optical, you will only get 2 channel sound out of the tv's optical port. You will have to run an optical cable directly from the source, most tv's don't passthorugh 5.1 from hdmi to optical.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response,

I have a Yamaha soundbar connected to the TV via a digital coaxial cable. The TV doesn't have digital optical output, just S/P DIF via digital coaxial.

I DO have a digital optical output on the motherboard that I could connect directly to the soundbar, which does have a digital optical input. Would that work?

Thanks again,

David








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Originally Posted by sitlet View Post

So you have a soundbar connected to the tv via rca or optical? If it's optical, you will only get 2 channel sound out of the tv's optical port. You will have to run an optical cable directly from the source, most tv's don't passthorugh 5.1 from hdmi to optical.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:06 PM
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Windows generally can't output two different sound sources at once. What does that mean for you?

-You can send sound out over your HDMI connection to your projector/receiver

OR

-You can send sound out over toslink to your sound bar

You can send audio from your motherboard to your speakerbar, but you are going to need to switch the sound device between the hdmi/projector/receiver and the tv/soundbar/toslink

You COULD buy something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

I'm no audiohphile, but during the time I spent selling electronics at a big box I rarely could discern a difference between soundbars receiving an AC3/DTS source over digital and one receiving 2 channel.

My HTPC front end set up
Integration for whole home ATSC, CableCARD, FM radio, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS control & capture, video games, and archived & streaming media playback
Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response.

I will use the outputs one at a time, never simultaneously, so the signal will either go to the receiver/projector OR the TV.

Kinda hate to have to go into Windows every time I want to switch back and forth, but that might be what I'm stuck with.

I looked at the CONVERTER. I'm unsure how I could use that. My TV doesn't have any HDMI OUT ports, or optical digital. It IS ARC-compliant on HDMI port 1, and does have digital audio coaxial, which is currently connected to the SOUND BAR.

WHICH HDMI signal would I send TO the converter? One of the HDMI OUTPUTS from the HTPC? If I did that then I wouldn't have an HDMI from the HTPC to the TV.

Would I need to use a HDMI Splitter from the HTPC HDMI OUT port # 1 and send one leg to the TV and the other leg to the converter, and then use digital optical from the CONVERTER to the SOUND BAR? HDMI OUT port 32 would continue to go to the RECEIVER/PROJECTOR.

Or am I missing something obvious? (It's happened before!)

Thanks again,

David


Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Windows generally can't output two different sound sources at once. What does that mean for you?

-You can send sound out over your HDMI connection to your projector/receiver

OR

-You can send sound out over toslink to your sound bar

You can send audio from your motherboard to your speakerbar, but you are going to need to switch the sound device between the hdmi/projector/receiver and the tv/soundbar/toslink

You COULD buy something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

I'm no audiohphile, but during the time I spent selling electronics at a big box I rarely could discern a difference between soundbars receiving an AC3/DTS source over digital and one receiving 2 channel.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:01 PM
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the audio extractor works like this

input: hdmi (audio and video)

output: hdmi (video) and toslink (audio).

this would require the following cables

-hdmi from pc to projector setup

-hdmi from pc to extractor

-hdmi from extractor to tv

-toslink from extractor to soundbar

I've never used an audio extractor so I can't vouch for how well they work and if they cause any problems with HDCP or sync.

My HTPC front end set up
Integration for whole home ATSC, CableCARD, FM radio, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS control & capture, video games, and archived & streaming media playback
Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Great! Thank you!!!

Hey, for $100 it's worth a shot!

David

Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

the audio extractor works like this

input: hdmi (audio and video)

output: hdmi (video) and toslink (audio).

this would require the following cables

-hdmi from pc to projector setup

-hdmi from pc to extractor

-hdmi from extractor to tv

-toslink from extractor to soundbar

I've never used an audio extractor so I can't vouch for how well they work and if they cause any problems with HDCP or sync.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Just an update.

I tried using a Toslink cable from the HTPC motherboard outout directly to the Sound Bar, went into Windows SOUND icon and chose PLAYBACK DEVICES, and saw all 3 items (HT-RC460 Receiver, Phillips TV, and SPEAKERS). Set SPEAKERS as default, and NOTHING. Ran the test, and no sound. Hmmmm....

Next thing will be the converter.

I am gonna figure this out!

Thanks,

David

Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Windows generally can't output two different sound sources at once. What does that mean for you?

-You can send sound out over your HDMI connection to your projector/receiver

OR

-You can send sound out over toslink to your sound bar

You can send audio from your motherboard to your speakerbar, but you are going to need to switch the sound device between the hdmi/projector/receiver and the tv/soundbar/toslink

You COULD buy something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

I'm no audiohphile, but during the time I spent selling electronics at a big box I rarely could discern a difference between soundbars receiving an AC3/DTS source over digital and one receiving 2 channel.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Got my dual HDMI on MB working now, and you were right on the money. I have to switch the Default Playback Device manually but hey, at least I have sound. I'm still working on getting TV sound during WMC/Media Browser, but I'm making progress. Thanks for the advice!

David

Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Windows generally can't output two different sound sources at once. What does that mean for you?

-You can send sound out over your HDMI connection to your projector/receiver

OR

-You can send sound out over toslink to your sound bar

You can send audio from your motherboard to your speakerbar, but you are going to need to switch the sound device between the hdmi/projector/receiver and the tv/soundbar/toslink

You COULD buy something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

I'm no audiohphile, but during the time I spent selling electronics at a big box I rarely could discern a difference between soundbars receiving an AC3/DTS source over digital and one receiving 2 channel.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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How about this? I know it may be crazy...

What if I set up a 2nd WMC/Media Browser configuration, just to use for the TV, and in THAT one set up the speaker configuration for 2 speakers and leave the OTHER set up for 7.1 speakers. Both set ups could access the same MOVIE directories. Would THAT work?

So if I wanted to access the media via TV I would choose WMC icon #2 and if I wanted to watch in my theater room I could choose WMC icon #1.

I did purchase a CLUX-11CD converter, but it will be a few days...

Thanks again,

David


Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Windows generally can't output two different sound sources at once. What does that mean for you?

-You can send sound out over your HDMI connection to your projector/receiver

OR

-You can send sound out over toslink to your sound bar

You can send audio from your motherboard to your speakerbar, but you are going to need to switch the sound device between the hdmi/projector/receiver and the tv/soundbar/toslink

You COULD buy something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

I'm no audiohphile, but during the time I spent selling electronics at a big box I rarely could discern a difference between soundbars receiving an AC3/DTS source over digital and one receiving 2 channel.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:20 PM
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yea that wont work. plenty of people here would be thrilled if it did. the software just doesnt work that way.

using an extender device in theory does that. it logs onto the host pc as a remote session user and opens its own instance of wmc.

My HTPC front end set up
Integration for whole home ATSC, CableCARD, FM radio, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS control & capture, video games, and archived & streaming media playback
Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:10 PM
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If you only watch tv in one room at a time then just get a hdmi switch with 2 outputs.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011306&p_id=8204&seq=1&format=2
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Where should I put the splitter? I tried splitting one of the HDMI OUT ports from the MB. Never got sound.

Are you saying split the HDMI OUT from the receiver? One leg to the Projector and the OTHER leg to the TV?

Thanks,

David
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

If you only watch tv in one room at a time then just get a hdmi switch with 2 outputs.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011306&p_id=8204&seq=1&format=2
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpn View Post

Where should I put the splitter? I tried splitting one of the HDMI OUT ports from the MB. Never got sound.

Are you saying split the HDMI OUT from the receiver? One leg to the Projector and the OTHER leg to the TV?

Thanks,

David

Split at the htpc. One goes to your receiver the other goes to your TV. Sound and audio in both locations.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I tried splitting the HDMI OUT PORT #1 from the motherboard using a known good Monoprice powered splitter. Graphics Properties would not recognize both displays so no clone display.

Next I tried using HDMI OUT PORT #2 from the motherboard and got the same result. Tried every power up sequence I could think of.

Finally gave up, plugged BOTH HDMI cables back into the dual HDMI ports on the motherboard and got both displays back!

Guess I'll just use have to use VLC for the TV and WMC/Media Browser on the receiver/projector.

David
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Originally Posted by macks View Post

Split at the htpc. One goes to your receiver the other goes to your TV. Sound and audio in both locations.
d
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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So is it possible to use a WIN 7 Intel based HTPC running WMC and Media Browser to play ripped Bluray MKV files on an HD TV WITHOUT going through a receiver? I can see vdeo EVERY TIME, and get sound about 1/2 the time, usually when the audio is PCM but sometimes other formats. HTPC to TV vis HDMI.

When I use VLC I get sound and video EVERY time, but I want the front end look and convenience of Media Browser...

Still learning, and thanks,

David






Quote:
Originally Posted by dpn View Post

First, this forum has helped me more than any other, so thanks in advance.

I have a dedicated HOME THEATER room with a projector and Onkyo receiver.

I have an HTPC located in another room with 2 HDMI outputs. One HDMI feeds the Onkyo receiver/projector and the other feeds a HD TV located in the same room with the HTPC.

I use MakeMKV to rip Blurays, and Assassin's excellent guide to set up WMC and Media Browser. All this works GREAT for the Receiver/Projector combo. I have 7.1 sound and so far EVERY rip has played as expected.

However, when I use the TV located right next to the HTPC, and run the WMC and Media Browser combo I generally only get PCM audio sources. How can I get audio from the TV? The HTPC is connected DIRECTLY to the TV. The TV is connected to a soundbar which works fine except as noted above.

When I use VLC I can hear audio for ALL movies using the TV. So I can at least play all my movies on the TV but I miss the look and feel of Media Browser...

What am I missing? Do I need to re-encode my MKV files from HD audio to a lesser audio format? Using MakeMKV I select ALL English audio formats. Do I need ANOTHER receiver just for the TV? I understand that the HTPC is outputting digital audio, but how does VLC handle it and not Media Browser?

Thanks,

David
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:45 PM
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You're probably trying to send the TV audio it does not know how to play - like DTS. In that case you need your pc set up to decode that audio into something that TV is able to understand. Thats probably what VLC is doing and why its working.

Figure out exactly which types of audio are not working correctly.

My HTPC front end set up
Integration for whole home ATSC, CableCARD, FM radio, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS control & capture, video games, and archived & streaming media playback
Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I know that DTS-HD ma is one, but sometimes I get Dolby Digital that DOES play. PCM generally plays okay. One thing I have noticed is that when the audio deosn't play the VIDEO appears jerky.

That is a good plan. I'll see if I can see a pattern. I am using LAV filter as outlined in Assassin's EXCELLENT guide...Do I need to change some settings in LAV audio, or add some other Codecs?

When I use MakeMKV to rip my Blurays, I always select ALL the ENGLISH choices, and the ENGLISH forced sub title choices.

Keep in mind that this problem ONLY exists on the HTPC direct to HD TV side of things. The HTPC through Receiver/Projector set up is flawless playing through WMC/Media Browser!

Thanks, and I'll report back!

David
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Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

You're probably trying to send the TV audio it does not know how to play - like DTS. In that case you need your pc set up to decode that audio into something that TV is able to understand. Thats probably what VLC is doing and why its working.

Figure out exactly which types of audio are not working correctly.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:36 PM
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Your receiver is decoding the dts but your TV cannot.

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Old 03-22-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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So when I'm picking audio options in MakeMKV, is there something I can do THEN to pick an audio stream that the HD TV CAN handle? Is there a way to encode to a lesser format? I've looked at Freemake and Handbrake. I don't want to make the file any smaller (I have plenty of HDD capacity) just want a format that can be used with WMC/Media Browser both WITH and WITHOUT a receiver. Maybe that's not possible...

Am I gonna need ANOTHER receiver for the TV, assuming I want to use this HTPC for BOTH devices?


Thanks in advance,

David

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Your receiver is decoding the dts but your TV cannot.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:23 PM
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The only thing your TV can process is PCM 2.0. You can use some tools like XMedia Recode to change audio but leave video unchanged. Don't use Handbrake because it HAS to change both video and audio.

Mkv files allow multiple audio tracks. So you can have both HD audio (for receiver) and 2.0 PCM for TV in the same file.
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:07 PM
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Your HTPC can also be set up to decode on the fly to PCM for your TV but you will have to manually switch it if you are going back and forth from having an AVR to not having an AVR in the playback chain. If you are using different HTPC's for different rooms (one with and one without an AVR) then you can set up each HTPC differently for the situation. In this case you don't need to re-encode the audio in the file.

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Old 03-22-2013, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Sammy2,

Hate to be such a bother, but HOW can I set up my HTPC to decode to PCM on the fly?

I am using ONE HTPC for both rooms, but never at the same time.

My HTPC, which I built 3 months ago, has a Gigabyte GA-Z77 MB with an Intel I3-3225 processor, 8 GB Ram, and 6 TB of HDD storage. The motherboard has dual HDMI ports, with ONE going to an Onkyo HT-RC460 receiver/Mitsubishi Projector and the SECOND going to a Phillips HD TV/Yamaha YAS101 Sound Bar.

The TV is located right next to the HTPC. The receiver/projector is on another floor in another room, but all that works great.

I am not averse to switching back and forth but how? I guess the scenario I need is like you stated..."going back and forth from having an AVR to not having an AVR in the playback chain."

Again, sorry to be asking such basic questions, but you guys are really a HUGE help.

David
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Your HTPC can also be set up to decode on the fly to PCM for your TV but you will have to manually switch it if you are going back and forth from having an AVR to not having an AVR in the playback chain. If you are using different HTPC's for different rooms (one with and one without an AVR) then you can set up each HTPC differently for the situation. In this case you don't need to re-encode the audio in the file.
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:32 PM
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Are you going to be moving the HTPC around from room to room? I am not understanding why you would be going from situations where you havean AVR to one where you don't. That sort of sounds like a pain in the butt.

Switching back and for from decoding to not decoding is a royal pain. Will you TV(s) deal with multi track PCM? If that is the case you should set you HTPC to decode the audio because changing that back and forth will be cumbersome.

As far as how to do this, what player are you using? You will need to set that up and probably whatever decoders you are using each time you switch.

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:40 PM
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I just read your OP. Just set your HTPC to decode and be done with it. If you use MPC-HC with LAV you can make these settngs in LAV. If your source has dts there is one more step. It is probably worth it to get assassin's guide because it is all well explained in there and the $25 it costs will save you multitudes of that in time and frustration.

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Old 03-22-2013, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree about Assassin's guide, and I did purchase and use it to set up Windows Media Center and Media Browser. I must have missed this part!

Like I said, I can already get EVERYTHING to play using VLC, so at this point I'm trying to figure out a reasonable way to get Windows Media Center/Media Browser, with all the meta data gathered via MediaCenter Master, to work on the TV.

I may have found a guide to use WMC-HC with Media Browser...

Thanks,

David


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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I just read your OP. Just set your HTPC to decode and be done with it. If you use MPC-HC with LAV you can make these settngs in LAV. If your source has dts there is one more step. It is probably worth it to get assassin's guide because it is all well explained in there and the $25 it costs will save you multitudes of that in time and frustration.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:34 PM
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You will need the TMT dts decoder.

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