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post #181 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 07:05 AM
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I totally understand people saying that you should just underclock/undervolt a faster chip. At the same time though, personally I just always want hardware I can drop in and forget about. There's already enough tweaking on the software side that I do that I just never want to complicate that more with underclocking (or overclocking for that matter).

But like I said, I totally understand the sentiment for others.

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post #182 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 07:58 AM
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K series are often just cheaper and enthusiast grade so they make sense.

I'm thinking like a micro center i5 or i7 deal on the k series is $80 cheaper sometimes.

K series are often the better chips, supporting overclocking, and aimed at the enthusiast market. But if you can get one cheaper than a t series it makes sense even if you never overclocking it.

I have an i5 3570k in my HTPC that's never been over locked. I bought it because it was cheap, not because I needed a k CPU.

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post #183 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 08:06 AM
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One thing I don't like "K" is the lack of VT-d support.
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post #184 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

One thing I don't like "K" is the lack of VT-d support.

I ran into that with a server build recently and had to get a i7-3770 instead even though it was much more expensive. But, the client needed it and it was still cheaper than the Xeon.

As always, what to use depends on what you're doing with it first and foremost.

 

 

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post #185 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 08:12 AM
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I considered that fact, but honestly, when do you really need VT-d, and what really supports it?
I believe you need Server 2012 to get a Hyper-V which supports VT-d (possibly the Hyper-V included in Windows 8 also does, i'm not 100% on that). VirtualBox does not support it, neither do the consumer versions of VMWare. ESXi may support it.

Sure, someone could have a specific need for it, but in general its no big loss (yet), mostly due to lack in software support.
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post #186 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 08:22 AM
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Yup, I have a bunch of K chips without noticing it. Recently I tried ESXi. Then suddenly I realized "K" is not great for this purpose. Just one thing some people may want to keep in mind when buying an Intel processor.

That's why I chose i5-4670 this time instead of i5-4670K. smile.gif Personally I prefer versatile usage in future rather than overclocking.
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post #187 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Yup, I have a bunch of K chips without noticing it. Recently I tried ESXi. Then suddenly I realized "K" is not great for this purpose. Just one thing some people may want to keep in mind when buying an Intel processor.

This is same with me and the reason I've never virtualized.

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post #188 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakkar View Post

Great.
So Hx7 + K chip can become a T chip?

Turning a normal chip into a "T" chip

This is how to turn a normal (K or non-K) chip into a "T" chip, one of the simplest things I can imagine. smile.gif I did this with Core i5-4670 and ASRock Z87 Exteme4 motherboard (you can do this with many H87 / B85 motherboards too). Go to UEFI BIOS setup > OC Tweaker. The default looks like this:



What you need is just change CPU Ratio from Auto to the value you want. That's it. eek.gifsmile.gif You even don't have to bother with undervolting (unless you want fine tuning), CPU voltage will change automatically with the clock speed. In this example I chose "22" so that the max CPU clock be 2200MHz = 22 x 100MHz.
Code:
CPU clock = (CPU ratio) x (BCLK)

where BCLK = base clock = 100MHz (you may be able change it too).



Let's see what happens.

Default Idle, Load, the system power consumption being 34W, 125W respectively.



Downclocked Idle, Load, the system power consumption being 34W, 77W respectively.



So just change CPU ratio, and everything will work automatically. Of course you can tweak many to further reduce power consumption if you like. Have a fun. smile.gif
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post #189 of 251 Old 06-18-2013, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

One thing I don't like "K" is the lack of VT-d support.

Don't forget 'K' series also lacks TSX-NI. That could become a factor when heavily threaded apps like encoders/decoders start to support these new instructions.
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post #190 of 251 Old 06-19-2013, 08:46 AM
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Jeez- tough crowd on the "k" series.

I think your CPU would be nearly obsolete before major software implementation of TSX-NI become much of a factor (if it ever does become a factor). Not something I would worry about.

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post #191 of 251 Old 06-19-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakkar View Post

Great.
So Hx7 + K chip can become a T chip?

This is how to turn a normal (K or non-K) chip into a "T" chip, one of the simplest things I can imagine. smile.gif I did this with Core i5-4670 and ASRock Z87 Exteme4 motherboard (you can do this with many H87 / B85 motherboards too). Go to UEFI BIOS setup > OC Tweaker. The default looks like this:



What you need is just change CPU Ratio from Auto to the value you want. That's it. eek.gifsmile.gif You even don't have to bother with undervolting (unless you want fine tuning), CPU voltage will change automatically with the clock speed. In this example I chose "22" so that the max CPU clock be 2200MHz = 22 x 100MHz.
Code:
CPU clock = (CPU ratio) x (BCLK)

where BCLK = base clock = 100MHz (you may be able change it too).



Let's see what happens.

Default Idle, Load, the system power consumption being 34W, 125W respectively.



Downclocked Idle, Load, the system power consumption being 34W, 77W respectively.



So just change CPU ratio, and everything will work automatically. Of course you can tweak many to further reduce power consumption if you like. Have a fun. smile.gif

Renethx,

This was another quality post. Thanks for taking the time to share this.

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post #192 of 251 Old 06-19-2013, 11:30 AM
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I just got my ASRock Haswell K system up and running, it's super fast! Compared to my old Core 2 Duo. Thanks for the tips too! I'm thinking of doing a passive HTPC build but am totally not sure, anyway it's fun being able to OC just by changing the multiplier, easiest OC ever. Got it at 4Ghz so far with stock voltage. SVP smooth video works better with this mini system than my old Core 2 Duo did WITH an AMD 6970 GPU attached. I'm very happy with my purchase so far. I was considering getting the S haswell chip for the 65W TPD but I figured it's better to have the flexibility to overclock or underclock as you want. When I game, I overclock, if I want a passive system, maybe underclock from the default 3.5 GHZ.

The stock cooler is slightly noisy, but who in their right minds will stick to one for long? You can get a very good low profile cooler for 30 bucks.
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post #193 of 251 Old 06-19-2013, 12:25 PM
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4670k or 4770k ?

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post #194 of 251 Old 06-21-2013, 05:29 AM
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It looks like broad well won't be until late 2015. Haswell doesn't make much progress on clock speed performance but it does improve on other features like power and efficiency.

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post #195 of 251 Old 06-25-2013, 09:22 AM
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post #196 of 251 Old 07-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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Pentium Haswell should help advance budget HTPC computing smile.gif

i3 is boring and a relatively pointless CPU that's much less exciting to me.

We should see testing and leaks of benchmarks soon I would expect for these new cheaper 1150 socket chips.

Anyone seen anything yet ?

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post #197 of 251 Old 07-10-2013, 04:03 PM
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You can test Pentium Haswell yourself now. smile.gif Just disable:

- 2 cores
- Hyper Threading (for i7)
- Turbo Boost
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post #198 of 251 Old 07-10-2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You can test Pentium Haswell yourself now. smile.gif Just disable:

- 2 cores
- Hyper Threading (for i7)
- Turbo Boost

That sounds yucky mad.gif


Lol. biggrin.gif

I think I'll keep it at 4 cores @ 4.2ghz wink.gif

If I was building a HTPC machine that was just for basic playback- I'd tend to think a pentium or celeron Haswell would be a great choice. (No madvr or SVP, just normal playback )

I would not want that for my desktop, but for a secondary HTPC it would suffice. The G630 machine I built two years ago is still fine for such a duty actually.

It's interesting you say that as I never considered it. You mean if I actually did that I would have nearly identical results as the i3 to be released ?? What do I do just downclock it to the same clock speed?

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post #199 of 251 Old 07-10-2013, 06:44 PM
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Performance-wise you will get Haswell Pentium / Core i3 by the method I mentioned (adjust the CPU ratio of course). There may be minor tweaks in actual Pentium / Core i3 and the number of transistors is different so power consumption may be slightly lower (even if disabled, they may consume some power), of course.
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post #200 of 251 Old 07-10-2013, 11:13 PM
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post #201 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 05:27 AM
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Current info suggests Intel is keeping Broadwell for OEMs only while the market will roll on with improved Haswell CPUs until Skylake hits.
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post #202 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Core i3 and Pentium Haswell on September 1


Any word on what features the pentium will have disabled? I might be interested in a new system.
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post #203 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 08:59 AM
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Current info suggests Intel is keeping Broadwell for OEMs only while the market will roll on with improved Haswell CPUs until Skylake hits.

Broadwell is suppose to be a soldered on only chip I think. It makes sense that you wont be able to buy just a cpu, instead you will buy a cpu/mobo combo. I'm actually fine with this since I always upgrade cpu and mobo together.
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post #204 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 10:33 AM
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Am I the only one who thinks the T chips are pointless? I mean if it does not reduce idle watts (where most HTPC's stay at) and it also lowers your top end power when you want it. Id sacrifice some speed for a decent idle watt drop but for a drop in max pwer why would I care? Id rather have the power when I need it (the few times I need it)
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post #205 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 11:11 AM
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Am I the only one who thinks the T chips are pointless? I mean if it does not reduce idle watts (where most HTPC's stay at) and it also lowers your top end power when you want it. Id sacrifice some speed for a decent idle watt drop but for a drop in max pwer why would I care? Id rather have the power when I need it (the few times I need it)

What about if you're running a fanless HTPC setup (think Streacom fanless chasis)? At idle it might not make a difference but the cap on power could be useful to prevent it from overheating. Although underclocking it would have the same effect and it'd allow you to go back to normal if your setup changes.
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post #206 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
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Am I the only one who thinks the T chips are pointless? I mean if it does not reduce idle watts (where most HTPC's stay at) and it also lowers your top end power when you want it. Id sacrifice some speed for a decent idle watt drop but for a drop in max pwer why would I care? Id rather have the power when I need it (the few times I need it)
The S and T models generally come with a lower profile cooler. Also, since you will not need to under clock it makes the setup process a little simpler.

If you can get the S or T for around the same price as a regular chip you might save on the aftermarket cooler and don't have to worry the motherboard under clocking features.
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post #207 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 12:33 PM
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The S and T models generally come with a lower profile cooler. Also, since you will not need to under clock it makes the setup process a little simpler.

If you can get the S or T for around the same price as a regular chip you might save on the aftermarket cooler and don't have to worry the motherboard under clocking features.

I foolishly made these same points on page 6. Just underclock and move on. Nothing to see here...

wink.gif
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post #208 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 02:06 PM
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I foolishly made these same points on page 6. Just underclock and move on. Nothing to see here...

wink.gif
LOL

So where are you all finding these K chips so cheap? When I bought my 3770S, it was the same price as a 3770 and considerably less than a 3770K. Same with my 3220T it was basically the same price as a 3220. A quick scan of Amazon has the 4770S @ $30 less than the K model, and the 3770S is cheaper than 3770K. I fine with buying the K models - but when I have shopped them they were higher priced than the S or T, plus they need an aftermarket cooler to fit in any of my cases driving the price delta even further.
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post #209 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 02:47 PM
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LOL

So where are you all finding these K chips so cheap? When I bought my 3770S, it was the same price as a 3770 and considerably less than a 3770K. Same with my 3220T it was basically the same price as a 3220. A quick scan of Amazon has the 4770S @ $30 less than the K model, and the 3770S is cheaper than 3770K. I fine with buying the K models - but when I have shopped them they were higher priced than the S or T, plus they need an aftermarket cooler to fit in any of my cases driving the price delta even further.

Amazon or Newegg for a CPU purchase = EPIC FAIL.

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This MicroCenter ad today made me think of you biggrin.gif


If you go back earlier in this thread you'll since where people are grabbing the 3770k for as cheap as $209 with the motherboard $40 bundle discount (It's $249 without a mobo )



There is a couple places to find cheap CPU's. For the "k" series usually Microcenter. For the non enthusiast or entry level CPU I like Superbiz and Directron. Don't buy CPU's from Amazon or Newegg. I got the 4770k and the Asrock Extreme4 Z87 for $399. It would have been $159+$349=$508 @ Newegg or Amazon when I bought mine. I was an early adopter too.

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post #210 of 251 Old 07-11-2013, 02:49 PM
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Unfortunately, the closest microcenter is 6hrs away. Sure I could get someone to go and ship me one, but between tax and shipping, and the deal isn't so sweet frown.gif
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