WD Green 3TB Hard Drive Issue - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, but here we go...


Cliffs
Computer will not allow me to use all of my 3TB hard drive.


Extended Cliffs (part 1)
- Got my hands on a Dell Optiplex 760
- Decided to set it up as an HTPC

Extended Cliffs (part 2)
- Put in a new 3TB WD Green hard drive
- Installed Windows 7 Home Premium on a single partition
- Disk Manager indicates my primary partition is only 2048 GB
- Disk Manager indicates that there is 746.5 GB of unallocated space
- Disk Manager won’t let me do anything with the unallocated space (all options grayed out)
- Disk Manager won’t let me extend my primary partition to include the 746.5 GB of unallocated space

Extended Cliffs (part 3)
- Reinstalled Windows 7 Home on a 100 GB partition
- Disk manager indicates the 100 GB partition is my primary partition
- Disk manager indicates that there are now two blocks of unallocated space, one at 1948 GB and one at 746.5 GB
- Created new simple volume from the 1948 GB of unallocated space
- Could not extend the 1948 GB partition to include the 746.5 GB of unallocated space
- Attempted to use diskpart to convert the 1948 GB partition to GPT and received the following message…

“The operation is not allowed on a disk that contains a pagefile volume.”


What do I do next?
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post #2 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 12:11 PM
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Your have to format the drive to GPT format for Windows to see the whole 3TB.
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-24-2013, 02:09 PM
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Yup. Good advice above.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-26-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Your have to format the drive to GPT format for Windows to see the whole 3TB.

Expanding on the previous post... If you are booting from the 3tb drive you must have a system with a uefi bios or a hybrid efi when dealing with older sandybridge gigabyte boards. For intel systems this would be most Sandybridge or higher and for amd systems most but not all am3+ boards.

Also note you cannot convert an existing master boot record partition to Gpt.. You will have to delete all partitions on the drive to be converted then set the drive to GPT.

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post #5 of 20 Old 04-26-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikkuranus View Post

Expanding on the previous post... If you are booting from the 3tb drive you must have a system with a uefi bios or a hybrid efi when dealing with older sandybridge gigabyte boards. For intel systems this would be most Sandybridge or higher and for amd systems most but not all am3+ boards.

Also note you cannot convert an existing master boot record partition to Gpt.. You will have to delete all partitions on the drive to be converted then set the drive to GPT.

Expanding further, only Windows 7 64-bit can boot from a GPT partition, and it must be in a UEFI based system.

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post #6 of 20 Old 04-27-2013, 06:41 AM
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Installing an OS to a HDD in 2013 should be against the law.
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post #7 of 20 Old 04-27-2013, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Installing an OS to a HDD in 2013 should be against the law.

No.
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post #8 of 20 Old 04-27-2013, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Installing an OS to a HDD in 2013 should be against the law.

biggrin.gif

I agree. I love my solid state drive.
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post #9 of 20 Old 04-27-2013, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Installing an OS to a HDD in 2013 should be against the law.

No.

Ever used a WD green as an OS drive on a HTPC ?

Worst experience of my life. Built a really nice HTPC for good friend about year ago. I3 2100 CPU, AsRock mobo, 8gb ddr3, silverstone case, seasonic PSU etc... Decided to save $70 by not using SSD.

Omg!

Horrible. I couldn't ever be happy with that. It was the biggest pig I ever tried to configure. Just installing programs and running updates was an unbearable nightmare.

I hadn't realized how much of a difference it really was. It was eye opening.

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post #10 of 20 Old 04-27-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Ever used a WD green as an OS drive on a HTPC ?

Worst experience of my life. Built a really nice HTPC for good friend about year ago. I3 2100 CPU, AsRock mobo, 8gb ddr3, silverstone case, seasonic PSU etc... Decided to save $70 by not using SSD.

Omg!

Horrible. I couldn't ever be happy with that. It was the biggest pig I ever tried to configure. Just installing programs and running updates was an unbearable nightmare.

I hadn't realized how much of a difference it really was. It was eye opening.

7200RPM drives are made for a reason wink.gif

For servers, the speed really isn't required since it's on most of the time.
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post #11 of 20 Old 04-27-2013, 04:34 PM
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But he is using as HTPC, and there's a lot more to an SSD than just boot times.

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post #12 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Installing an OS to a HDD in 2013 should be against the law.

Chuck Norris recognizes your wisdom.
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post #13 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 08:29 AM
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Does an SSD really matter for an HTPC? If you're using Windows 8 boot times are short whether it's running off an HDD or an SSD - and if it's an HTPC, it will likely be going to sleep rather than shutting down/hibernation. (so it's loading from RAM rather than the disk)
Programs like JRiver Media Center are very highly optimized and take seconds to load on any machine I've tried, no matter what it's running off. All my media is being stored on HDDs anyway. (SSDs are too small)
My web browser maybe takes a few seconds to load up if it's running off an HDD but I never close it.

With 8GB of RAM in the machine, and memory being so cheap these days that you could easily double that, most things are kept in RAM anyway.
The only things where SSDs actually matter for me are launching demanding programs like Photoshop, or playing games - neither of which are traditional "HTPC" tasks.

Don't get me wrong, I really like having an SSD. But I think it's overblown how "essential" they are - at least on desktop machines.
I wouldn't go back to using a notebook with one of those slow 2.5" drives. But even then you're looking at less than 30 seconds to boot.
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post #14 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Does an SSD really matter for an HTPC? If you're using Windows 8 boot times are short whether it's running off an HDD or an SSD - and if it's an HTPC, it will likely be going to sleep rather than shutting down/hibernation. (so it's loading from RAM rather than the disk)
Programs like JRiver Media Center are very highly optimized and take seconds to load on any machine I've tried, no matter what it's running off. All my media is being stored on HDDs anyway. (SSDs are too small)
My web browser maybe takes a few seconds to load up if it's running off an HDD but I never close it.

With 8GB of RAM in the machine, and memory being so cheap these days that you could easily double that, most things are kept in RAM anyway.
The only things where SSDs actually matter for me are launching demanding programs like Photoshop, or playing games - neither of which are traditional "HTPC" tasks.

Don't get me wrong, I really like having an SSD. But I think it's overblown how "essential" they are - at least on desktop machines.
I wouldn't go back to using a notebook with one of those slow 2.5" drives. But even then you're looking at less than 30 seconds to boot.

Yes.

SSD makes an extreme difference in almost everything you do. HDD is unacceptable for HTPC (for me)

It's generally horrible. Mediabrowser and such often perform much snappier with SSD. The results and benefits are obvious in HTPC centric applications, in addition to all the normal PC places where you see SSD benefits.

I would not build or operate a HTPC with a HDD for OS.

This is an unconditional law I have. Honestly, I'd rather go without a HTPC or PC... and just go play outside. It's not worth it to me it's that horrible.

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post #15 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

SSD makes an extreme difference in almost everything you do. HDD is unacceptable for HTPC (for me)
Define "everything" please.

SSDs only make a difference to disk I/O. On a HTPC that is used for media purposes, it's highly unlikely that all your media (music/video) is being stored on an SSD even if you have one, and audio/video are streamed so disk access speed doesn't really affect them anyway.

Aside from booting the system and loading your media application of choice, the boot disk shouldn't be getting accessed anyway - that should all be in RAM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

It's generally horrible. Mediabrowser and such often perform much snappier with SSD. The results and benefits are obvious in HTPC centric applications, in addition to all the normal PC places where you see SSD benefits.
..
This is an unconditional law I have. Honestly, I'd rather go without a HTPC or PC... and just go play outside. It's not worth it to me it's that horrible.
I think you must have been using faulty hardware. Or doing tasks which require a lot of IO that are unrelated to HTPC use.
I'm not saying an SSD isn't better, but I question the necessity of it in a HTPC that's just being used for media playback.
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post #16 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Define "everything" please.
Ok.
Definition of “everything”
Quote:
eve•ry•thing
[ev-ree-thing]
pronoun
1.
every, thing or particular of an aggregate or total; all.
2.
something extremely important: This news means everything to us.
noun
3.
something that is extremely or most important: Money is his everything.
Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English; see every, thing1


What I meant specifically was that there is not one single aspect of performance where a HDD is as good as an SSD. That being "everything" as in SSD is superior to HDD at everything. Basically when it comes to being a hard disk drive an SSD is superior to a HDD, specifically in matters important to an OS; (reliability, power consumption, speed, random IOPS, etc… )

Quote:
SSDs only make a difference to disk I/O. On a HTPC that is used for media purposes, it's highly unlikely that all your media (music/video) is being stored on an SSD even if you have one, and audio/video are streamed so disk access speed doesn't really affect them anyway.


I would think your wrong here. I don’t even have HDD in my HTPC. Only SSD. This allows it to be quieter and consume less energy, generate less heat, and perform much better. I store all my media on my 30TB media server (on HDD’s) but the Windows server OS is installed on SSD for my server too.
No one use SSD to store media. Your example makes no sense in relation to how people actually use SSD’s (for OS, not data storage). For an OS it’s very clear SSD holds a significant advantage over HDD. That does not mean you can’t use a HDD, it just means a HDD is generally much worse performance.


Quote:
Aside from booting the system and loading your media application of choice, the boot disk shouldn't be getting accessed anyway - that should all be in RAM.
Nice theory but clearly wrong. Your wrong and it’s a common myth that SSD benefits are only in boot times. But reality is SSD benefits extend far beyond simple boot times. Installing a program, Openining a program, Opening a folder, all are noticeably improved with SSD. As is a HTPC client like mediabrowser. Using Mediabrowser on SSD your cover art and the program in general are much snappier and quicker. I’d take an SSD with 2GB or 4GB of DDR3 versus a HDD only with 16GB of the fastest ram available everytime. I know the SSD machine with 1/8th the ram would outperform it easily. Sure RAM helps… but not as much as SSD IMO.

Quote:
I'm not saying an SSD isn't better, but I question the necessity of it in a HTPC that's just being used for media playback.


I am. I don’t want to own or operarate personally a HTPC with a HDD for the OS. It’s not a good experience and because I am used to the SSD performance of mine now (120GB SSD + 3570k CPU on Z77+ 8GB DDR3 2133mhz) I could never be happy with it. The performance difference is extreme. I have a lot going on my HTPC, and over 30TB of Media on my server. I notice the improvement SSD makes on nearly everything I do with it daily. It’s very black and white to me.
I accept my performance compass might be calibrated to a higher spec than most, and so I notice a drop in performance more than your average person- but anyone who makes the leap from SSD to HDD should clearly notice a performance drop off that extend far beyond just longer boot times.



Special oppolgies if my posting comes off a certain negative way. Not my intention at all. Just trying to be clear, as I am very passionate on the SSD benefits issue.

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post #17 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Ok.
Definition of “everything”
What I meant was please define the tasks that you consider to be "everything" in a HTPC that is improved by using an SSD - other than booting the machine, and launching your media player. But you knew that of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

No one use SSD to store media. Your example makes no sense in relation to how people actually use SSD’s (for OS, not data storage).
That is exactly my point though - no-one uses an SSD for media storage. And the main thing an HTPC does is play back media files. So for that task, it doesn't make a difference whether you have an SSD or not.
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

For an OS it’s very clear SSD holds a significant advantage over HDD.
Only when it comes to boot times if you are talking about the OS performance - unless you have run out of RAM and are paging to the disk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

But reality is SSD benefits extend far beyond simple boot times. Installing a program, Openining a program, Opening a folder, all are noticeably improved with SSD.
And I have not disagreed with that. What I disagree with is the notion that an SSD is essential in a HTPC environment, where you are not going to be dealing with installing and running lots of programs, but using it for media playback.
As far as HTPC tasks are concerned, I run JRiver Media Center, and that handles everything. It launches very quickly whether it's running off an HDD or an SSD, and once it has been launched it sits in memory. So the drive it's running off has no impact on performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

As is a HTPC client like mediabrowser. Using Mediabrowser on SSD your cover art and the program in general are much snappier and quicker. I’d take an SSD with 2GB or 4GB of DDR3 versus a HDD only with 16GB of the fastest ram available everytime. I know the SSD machine with 1/8th the ram would outperform it easily. Sure RAM helps… but not as much as SSD IMO.
RAM is significantly faster than an SSD, giving you at least 20GB/s bandwidth compared to 0.5GB/s with an SSD. If Mediabrowser is relying on the disk performance rather than caching things in memory, it sounds like a bad choice of media player. (I use JRiver and have no such issues)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I have a lot going on my HTPC, and over 30TB of Media on my server.
Seems like your network performance is the most important thing as far as HTPC tasks are concerned.

If you have a multi-purpose computer that you are also using for media playback, then I agree an SSD can potentially be very beneficial. But for HTPC purposes - especially when your media is loading over a network connection - I fail to see the necessity.
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post #18 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 12:01 PM
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Well plain and simple real world:

I decide I want to watch something. I grab my remote and open mediabrowser. The time it takes to do that is faster with SSD.

Then I want to browse through my 30TB of stuff to find something I want to watch... This process is more pleasant and snappier with a HTPC with SSD (locally stuff is stored on SSD as cache for your library btw, even if you have no media on your HTPC)

The total time it takes to do this simple HTPC-centric task is less with SSD, and the SSD provides much better experience and performance.

For this reason alone- SSD makes sense.

Adding the faster boot times, Faster install times, and the performance of other programs just is extra reasons... but daily life with HTPC is improved with SSD clearly. That is my point.

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post #19 of 20 Old 04-28-2013, 02:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

And the main thing an HTPC does is play back media files. So for that task, it doesn't make a difference whether you have an SSD or not.

What do you use to play back the stored media files? I use a program that runs on my HTPC. This program has to be run in order to load the media files, process them, and present them to me in all their glory. I also use a program to allow me to select which media file I want to play back. This program also must be run in order for it to present me the available media files which I can select from. In my case, the play back program is TMT5 and the presentation of files program is Media Browser. Both programs must be read off the physical media while the program is being launched and loaded into memory. This takes time, the slower the drive the more time it takes. I can tell you the same as mfusick that Media Browser is MANY times faster with an SSD than with a HDD. On an SSD, the program is snappy...the posters appear instantaneously, even though it has to load them all at that exact moment. No wait at all, unlike with a HDD.

Quote:
What I disagree with is the notion that an SSD is essential in a HTPC environment...

It isn't a necessity - but it does make the experience much nicer. For me, a nicer experience makes me happy...I like being happy. smile.gif
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-29-2013, 04:25 AM
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I like being happy too.

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