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post #31 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I stopped reading at Unraid Plus. No thanks.

It's a mandatory requirement for my media to remain readable in any machine, event or circumstance. I must be different, but I REQUIRE this.
I can't tell you how awesome it is to grab a drive out of my Norco Server and be able to slap it into my desktop (hot swap, internal installation, or HDD dock) and read the contents.

I have been running my UnRaid server for years and have never, ever wanted or needed to 'grab' a drive out of my server and throw it into another computer. I just cant see where this would be something any average user would even worry about never mind be mandatory. Then again, if I did somehow have an emergency where this was necessary there are easy free programs which allow you to do this.

I can't tell you how awesome it is for me to rip a drive full of blurays on my desktop and then just simply add it to my flex raid server.

Not sure why this is 'awesome'...I rip directly to my UnRaid server all the time.


It is inevitable that at some point I will rebuild my server, update or replace it. When I do I really want the content to be easily accessible. Rebuilding my server after using flexraid was so easy. I upgraded my CPU, RAM, Mobo... added a IBM Sata card... reused some HDD's and added some new ones. It was as easy as pie. I didn't lose any data or copy anything.

In Blue

You should consider there might be some actual benefits rather than working to dismiss them because your want to defend your own decision.


Grabbing a drive out of a server and being able to read the contents in another machine is a huge benefit that should not be dismissed. Just because you don't understand why this is so doesn't make it any less of a benefit. When I rebuild my 20TB Flexraid server I was able to keep all 20TB of my data, and set up a new server with a new mobo, cpu, Ram, additional hard drives, new IBM sata card etc... etc.... I just installed my old drives. Some stuff I copied to organize. But in general it was pain free. I'd imagine moving from end of life unraid server to a new server would not be so easy. That is the benefit. It's not like I grab a drive out of my server all the time and install it on my desktop. It's more that I have that option, and some flexibility if something was to go wrong (like my server died).

I too can rip directly to my server. But sometimes I work with stuff locally. It''s nice being able to add either full or empty drives to my storage pool. That is a real benefit of flexraid that should not be overlooked also.

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post #32 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 09:15 AM
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post #33 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 09:48 AM
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You can read the contents of an UnRAID drive on Windows. It's been stated several times in this thread already.

But I don't want to install a special program to read or transfer a different HDD file system. I just want it to work. Anything is possible with PC's. But I am not interested in the extra effort required. I am fully capable but simply choose to spend my efforts in other areas. I rebuilt a flexraid server and it was easy... I did not have any of the issue OP is facing. That's my point. Flexraid offer this serious benefit over Unraid.


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When I rebuild my 20TB Flexraid server I was able to keep all 20TB of my data, and set up a new server with a new mobo, cpu, Ram, additional hard drives, new IBM sata card etc... etc.... I just installed my old drives. Some stuff I copied to organize. But in general it was pain free. I'd imagine moving from end of life unraid server to a new server would not be so easy. That is the benefit.

Why would UnRAID be any different?


Because like I just stated above- I can't just add a full drive to a new server. I can't naively read the contents from my unraid machine in another machine. What if your unraid server crapped out ? You'd have to install something to read the file system and then copy or transfer the media from the drives right ??? Sounds like PITA. Same story if you just want to upgrade your unraid server right ?? again... PITA. I might be different but I upgrade my stuff all the time, I value high performance- and my own personal time. I don't expect to keep something like a unraid server for years and years and years. Knowing the upgrade process or rebuild process is easier with Flexraid is an advantage to someone like me. It's not a problem until it is a problem- Like the OP is facing.

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It's not like I grab a drive out of my server all the time and install it on my desktop. It's more that I have that option, and some flexibility if something was to go wrong (like my server died).

Exactly. People rarely read their server drive on their desktop, but they like having that option. UnRAID gives you that option.

It's not that you would do it all the time. It's that you can easily when you need to do it. When the day comes (LIKE THE OP NOW) you will appreciate the simplicity. Not sure why your trying so hard to dismiss a very obvious benefit.
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I too can rip directly to my server. But sometimes I work with stuff locally. It''s nice being able to add either full or empty drives to my storage pool. That is a real benefit of flexraid that should not be overlooked also.
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It's not that it's being overlooked, just that it's irrelevant for >99% of media server users. The only advantage to working with drives locally is faster transfer speed. Since HDDs top out <150MBps and Gigabit Ethernet is ~100MBps, the only practical advantage would be with *huge* file transfers (terabytes). The largest file transfers to an established media server are Blu Ray rips. Since ripping is limited by optical drive speed rather than network speed, ripping to a local drive provides no benefit.

Why do you work with stuff locally? I don't understand.

It's not that you work with stuff locally versus over LAN. It's that Flexraid is able to add or remove any drive from the pool at any time both empty and full. I can add a full drive. I can add an empty drive. I can remove a full drive. I can replace a drive.
This is nice. I recently replaced all my WD green drives in my server, while keeping the 7200.14's. It was so easy.... I sold the 2TB WD Greens on ebay for the same cost per TB as I was buying up better Seagate 3TB drives- replacing a nearly expired warranty product with a brand new superior product with full 2.5 years more warranty for no cost. Stuff like this is impossible with Unraid.

Unraid might make sense for someone who is going to build the unraid box, use it for 5+ years without touching a thing, provided none of the drives or hardware dies. As soon as you start messing around, changing, upgrading... or parts fail you'll quickly see the benefit in a Flexraid server over an Unraid server.


Not to mention that the benefit is you can run a full OS like WHS that does much more than simple server duties, including remote access, automated backup, off site access (Yes I can access my server away from home) and run tons of windows based programs and tools. It's got way more potential IMO.

And Lastly- Performance. I can read or copy paste to or from my Flexraid server @ consistent 115MB/sec! You'll never write/read consistently from an Unraid Server. The higher end speed and performance of a great unraid server is often considered a bug, or a performance problem with Flexraid. 40MB/sec on Unraid is normal.. it's a sign of a problem and poor performance with Flexraid.

I hate to make this an unraid versus flexraid debate- but your dismissal of obvious real benefits of Flexraid as being worthless is forcing my hand at debating this. It's great you are happy with unraid, but why are you trying to convince everyone it's as good or better as flexraid, or that Flexraid doesn't have many huge advantages over unraid ???? What real advantages does unraid have over flexraid ??? (Answer = Nothing)

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post #34 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 09:50 AM
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But you lose the motherboard cpu $40 off combo with the i7. I did a build a month ago with that same i7 and it was nice and fast. It is just difficult to get over the saving of the i5 with another $40 off.


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post #35 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 10:17 AM
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Hey guys here is what i have come up with so far

Please do advise and tell me if i can do better

If are just streaming video and want to be frugal:

$200 - 1x N40L (~$200)
$840 - 6x 4TB ST4000DM000
$_15 - 2 Port SATA Card
$_15 - Nexus DoubleTwin HDD Adapter
$_70 - UnRAID Plus
$__5 - USB Drive
$_10 - SATA & Molex Cables

$1155 Total

Link for the curious.

$50 LGA1155 Mobo
$30 4GB DDR3
$40 G1610 CPU
$30 400 watt PSU
$30 Antec 300 case
$840 6x4TB
$1020 + $10 for cables = $1030. Add WHS for $39 and Flexraid for $69 = $1138

Price is not an advantage or a deterrent at all. Flexraid Servers build from good parts don't really cost any significant amount more. Sure you can go top shelf on components, but then your not comparing apples to apples.
Just because some people like to go with i5 CPU, SSD, Z77 mobos, And expensive server cases hot swap does not mean every flexraid server costs that.

I build my first flexraid server for $200 and used hard drives I already owned. (Asrock H61 Mobo with USB3.0 and Sata3 $44+ G630 CPU $60 + 8GB DDR3 $32+ Coolermaster 430 watt PSU $17+ Agility 3 60GB SSD $44)

I then rebuilt that server with more top shelf components ($330 Norco 4220 case, i5, Z77 Extreme Mobo, 120GB SSD, IBM Sata card flashed, 80+ Gold 650 watt PSU, etc... )

My needs expanded from the basic $200 machine I first built to the modern higher end machine I have today. That is also something you can do with Flexraid and WHS based server very easily. Upgrading and swapping out parts, rebuilding my server and expanding the storage was really easy. I loved that I was flexible and the process was easy. I have a entire thread about it... linked earlier.

If your thinking you want that versatility, customization, or performance it's a good way to go. Cost is not a factor. It's mostly a myth unraid servers costs less. It's not true at all. It's much more that your average unraid server is lower performance, lower end, and more basic and thus just costs less. And- That your average Flexraid server is more robust in performance, and parts, and potential. - costing more.

Keeping apples to apples the hardware is basically the same so basically the cost is identical.

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post #36 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 10:38 AM
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post #37 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 11:27 AM
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Ease of UnRAID >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Niche features of fussy FlexRAID.

Is unraid easier than Flexraid to setup ?

Are there any features that unraid offers that flexraid fails at or does not offer ?

Lastly, Can I install a plex media server on the unraid server ?

I like this debate. I can clear all my questions abt both systems.

Thank you guys.
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post #38 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 11:46 AM
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post #39 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 12:25 PM
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Lastly, Can I install a plex media server on the unraid server
http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Plugins
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post #40 of 47 Old 05-14-2013, 12:34 PM
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Thank you for the replies guys.
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post #41 of 47 Old 05-15-2013, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys any input on my last post about adding home automation hardware and software programs on my htpc
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post #42 of 47 Old 05-15-2013, 08:36 PM
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With a windows based server (or whs) you certainly can run home automation.

Flexibility and wide range compatibility are a benefit of going that route. Basically you can do anything you can do with a normal pc. Almost everything works on modern windows platform. Windows home server usually supports most software that normal windows does.

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post #43 of 47 Old 05-16-2013, 03:38 AM
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I ran Homeseer on my HTPC before I had a media server. I'm now running it on the server and the HTPC is just for HT.

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post #44 of 47 Old 05-16-2013, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tkarns24 View Post

Hey guys any input on my last post about adding home automation hardware and software programs on my htpc

I did this a long time ago when I had SageTv running on my server along with HomeSeer. I truely believe that HS needs to run in it's own tiny box.

I currently run HS on a eeeBox Atom 525 based system with an SSD,
After many long term experiments I have found that running OS in VM's is the way to go. I currently have 7MC and SageTv in 2008 R2 Hyper-V vm's amung other OS's.

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post #45 of 47 Old 05-22-2013, 04:27 AM - Thread Starter
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So would you say that i could use a very basic mid range pc for home automation
 

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post #46 of 47 Old 05-22-2013, 10:12 AM
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So would you say that i could use a very basic mid range pc for home automation

 
It matters what all you plan on doing with it.

If you just want to turn lights on and off then you are probably fine with a sempron le. If you want to be able to encode and save video feeds then a fairly powerful cpu will quickly become needed.

The same can be said for a file server, if you just want to serve your media out then a sempron le is fine. If you want to transcode your media then you start needing a more powerful cpu.

Please let us know what you are trying to build so we can give proper advice.

The idea of using a 3570k for serving media is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as pulling hdd's from a working RAID array.
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post #47 of 47 Old 05-23-2013, 11:22 AM
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3570 is ideal for low cost and low power transcoding

My server is 3.0 dual core and its a dog at that. I3 or lower suck for transcoding or dumping off duties.

The importance of this comes down to how you want to use it smile.gif

If your just looking to build storage like NAS its not an issue. But I believe a basic NAS is different from a real server

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