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post #271 of 1094 Old 06-12-2013, 06:48 AM
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So, is the consensus that the Ceton 6 ETH worth the investment?

I currently have 4 WMC PCs in my house currently, two with a single PCIe Ceton 4 card in each...one PC with a card has all 4 tuners dedicated to it and the other has two dedicated + two shared. The shared tuners seem to require me to reboot either the host or remote WMC PCs regularly to get a signal on the remote machine. I love the idea of having 6 dynamic tuners on my network (I'm running gigabit) and dumping my 2 x PCIe cards, but I need reliable pooled tuner sharing...I don't see myself ever recording or watching live TV on 6 tuners simultaneously, so the Ceton 6 would be ideal. Right now, I only record shows on the PCs where the cards are physically installed since the tuner sharing is a bit unreliable...the remote tuners are used for live TV only.

Thanks.

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post #272 of 1094 Old 06-12-2013, 06:57 AM
 
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Once I dropped the incoming power levels down, I am loving my Ceton Eth tuner...FiOS is famous for having a VERY VERY VERY hot incoming signal, so if you have FiOS, make sure to get an attenuator. If you use the beta firmware updates, you can dynamically share the tuners. It works, have never had a problem with it.
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post #273 of 1094 Old 06-12-2013, 07:17 AM
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Cool. I'm on Insight right now, but am thinking of switching to WOW soon since they set most of their channels/programs to "copy freely" instead of "copy once", like Insight does for everything except NBC, CBS, FOX and ABC. Getting sick of recording stuff on Comedy Central and having to watch it where I recorded it...gets annoying.

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post #274 of 1094 Old 06-12-2013, 07:59 PM
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I'm seriously considering buying the InfiniTV 6 ETH but even after reading this entire thread, I'm not 100% sure I can do what I want with it. Apologies in advance if what I ask here has already been answered in some form at least once previously in this thread.

I have two computers, both running Windows 8 with Media Center.

Question 1: Can I set up each to use three network tuners? I'm thinking no, given all the notices I see regarding this unit on the Ceton site warning about how this works only with Windows 7. Or am I mistaken?

Question 2: Can I set up tuner pooling on these Windows 8 computers? If so, is there anything I need to know with regard to these computers running Windows 8 rather than 7? Are there specific software AND firmware versions required?

Question 3: If the answers to #1 and #2 are both no, what would you recommend?

Mahalo.
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post #275 of 1094 Old 06-13-2013, 07:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturmie View Post

Cool. I'm on Insight right now, but am thinking of switching to WOW soon since they set most of their channels/programs to "copy freely" instead of "copy once", like Insight does for everything except NBC, CBS, FOX and ABC. Getting sick of recording stuff on Comedy Central and having to watch it where I recorded it...gets annoying.

The best thing about copy freely is hardware upgrades. I have FiOS and everything (but HBO and such) are copy freely. I just upgraded my mobo, cpu, sdd, memory, etc. and did not lose a single show. I had to reset the DRM and eHome info, redo WMC setup, but all my shows are still there and still watchable. smile.gif
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post #276 of 1094 Old 06-13-2013, 07:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hawaii2000 View Post

I'm seriously considering buying the InfiniTV 6 ETH but even after reading this entire thread, I'm not 100% sure I can do what I want with it. Apologies in advance if what I ask here has already been answered in some form at least once previously in this thread.

I have two computers, both running Windows 8 with Media Center.

Question 1: Can I set up each to use three network tuners? I'm thinking no, given all the notices I see regarding this unit on the Ceton site warning about how this works only with Windows 7. Or am I mistaken?

Question 2: Can I set up tuner pooling on these Windows 8 computers? If so, is there anything I need to know with regard to these computers running Windows 8 rather than 7? Are there specific software AND firmware versions required?

Question 3: If the answers to #1 and #2 are both no, what would you recommend?

Mahalo.

Tuner assignment is not available in WIndows 8, only Windows 7. HOWEVER, tuner pooling is a superior way of handling it over tuner assignment, IMO. You need to enable beta firmware in the Ceton Diagnostics tool (it is on the tab which includes updates) and then update to the latest beta firmwares. When done, reboot the PC AND power cycle the Ceton Eth Tuner. The Ceton will be up and running long before Windows is, so no worries there.

Dynamic tuner pooling allows each PC setup to use the Ceton Eth to snag any free tuner as needed. Just be warned that if you record shows on two different PCs, and they are not copy freely, you will only be able to watch them on that one PC. You can go into the setup on each PC's WMC and add the other PC's Recorded TV folder so you can easily play back copy freely shows.

I have tested the tuner pooling and it works. I only use it to watch live TV, I do all my recording on the main HTPC plugged into the projector.
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post #277 of 1094 Old 06-13-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Tuner assignment is not available in WIndows 8, only Windows 7. HOWEVER, tuner pooling is a superior way of handling it over tuner assignment, IMO. You need to enable beta firmware in the Ceton Diagnostics tool (it is on the tab which includes updates) and then update to the latest beta firmwares. When done, reboot the PC AND power cycle the Ceton Eth Tuner. The Ceton will be up and running long before Windows is, so no worries there.

Dynamic tuner pooling allows each PC setup to use the Ceton Eth to snag any free tuner as needed. Just be warned that if you record shows on two different PCs, and they are not copy freely, you will only be able to watch them on that one PC. You can go into the setup on each PC's WMC and add the other PC's Recorded TV folder so you can easily play back copy freely shows.

I have tested the tuner pooling and it works. I only use it to watch live TV, I do all my recording on the main HTPC plugged into the projector.

Thank you for the informative reply! Very much appreciated.
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post #278 of 1094 Old 06-13-2013, 04:10 PM
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Network tuners can be assigned to windows 8 computers even on the "old" pci-e and usb tuners. In my location with 2 ceton cards, one being usb, (and no primes) I take two tuners and assign them to two win 8 laptops. You just cannot host the device on a windows 8 machine but you may assign a device hosted somewhere else such as a windows 7 machine or its own box. Since the ETH model is its own host, it does not matter if you assign tuners to win 8 machines. The old way (for ceton tuners) was to assign devices to specific tuners and these devices needed "exclusive" use of the tuners assigned to them. However windows 8 would sometimes want to pick up all detected tuners even if they were currently assigned somewhere else so you had to check it out after each machine was set up to ensure there were no conflicts.

I generally agree that the new way of tuner pooling is the way to go. It is something the SiliconDust HDHomerun Primes have done since they came out however there have been occasional problems when one computer expects to have use of a tuner and doesn't... with recorded TV, it will "always" go through each tuner (at least once) until it can find one it can use... with live tv, WMC sometimes likes to only use one particular tuner and if the computer doesn't know the tuner is in use because another computer is using it, it sometimes will not try to display live tv from another tuner... I have not heard of this being a problem on the ETH but I would say the potential of it being a problem as well as the potential of tuners being hogged by other devices is out there.
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post #279 of 1094 Old 06-13-2013, 05:21 PM
 
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Network Tuner Support: The InfiniTV network tuner bridging feature will not be available in Windows 8. If you are currently using network bridging "tuner sharing" under Windows 7 you MUST reset the InfiniTV back to factory settings before upgrading to Windows 8. You can reset your InfiniTV back to factory setting using the network tuners wizard found in media center.

*** WARNING: Upgrading to Windows 8 while the InfiniTV is in a bridged state could orphan your InfiniTV ***
http://cetoncorp.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/58/0/infinitv-windows-8-support


I never did it, so I do not know if it actually worked but was just not supported by Ceton.
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post #280 of 1094 Old 06-13-2013, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I generally agree that the new way of tuner pooling is the way to go. It is something the SiliconDust HDHomerun Primes have done since they came out however there have been occasional problems when one computer expects to have use of a tuner and doesn't... with recorded TV, it will "always" go through each tuner (at least once) until it can find one it can use... with live tv, WMC sometimes likes to only use one particular tuner and if the computer doesn't know the tuner is in use because another computer is using it, it sometimes will not try to display live tv from another tuner... I have not heard of this being a problem on the ETH but I would say the potential of it being a problem as well as the potential of tuners being hogged by other devices is out there.
Based on how I understand they implemented the pooling, this actually shouldn't be a problem when accessing tuners from the pool. The reason (if I understand how they've implemented the pooling correctly) is that if WMC asks for tuner #3 (for example), the Ceton pool will simply give it whatever tuner is currently available - so WMC could end up actually getting tuner #1, #2, #4, #5, or #6 even if tuner #3 is currently available. Hopefully Eric will jump in and confirm this is correct or explain how it actually works if I'm wrong.
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post #281 of 1094 Old 06-13-2013, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

http://cetoncorp.com/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/58/0/infinitv-windows-8-support


I never did it, so I do not know if it actually worked but was just not supported by Ceton.

We have done nothing to intentionally block the assignment of tuners on Windows 8, however our software does not work on it (due to changes in Windows 8) and it is an untested/unsupported scenario
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Based on how I understand they implemented the pooling, this actually shouldn't be a problem when accessing tuners from the pool. The reason (if I understand how they've implemented the pooling correctly) is that if WMC asks for tuner #3 (for example), the Ceton pool will simply give it whatever tuner is currently available - so WMC could end up actually getting tuner #1, #2, #4, #5, or #6 even if tuner #3 is currently available. Hopefully Eric will jump in and confirm this is correct or explain how it actually works if I'm wrong.

This is correct. The InfiniTV 6 ETH will first try and assign the requested tuner (eg if tuner 3 is requested, physical tuner 3 will be assigned if available). If it is not available, the InfiniTV will start at physical tuner 1 and work its way up until it either finds a free tuner, or all tuners are exhausted.

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post #282 of 1094 Old 06-14-2013, 06:42 AM
 
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Out of curiosity Eric, why does my HTPC always request tuner 4? Not that it matters, but it seems strange for it to always use 4 instead of starting at 1. I used to have a PCIe card in the box, but removed it when I went to the Eth.
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post #283 of 1094 Old 06-14-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Out of curiosity Eric, why does my HTPC always request tuner 4? Not that it matters, but it seems strange for it to always use 4 instead of starting at 1. I used to have a PCIe card in the box, but removed it when I went to the Eth.

It not just you. WMC tends to prefer tuner 4 for some reason. I don't have a good answer why.

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post #284 of 1094 Old 06-17-2013, 11:07 AM
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Since it's starting to get warm, but not quite warm enough to turn the A/C on yet, my tuner temps had started creeping up to a little over 61 C. So I decided to setup some PC case fans to cool them down this morning. I used a couple of old 80mm Panaflo fans (1 for each InfiniTV 6 ETH) I had kicking around and hooked them up to a 12V 300ma wall wart power supply. Within a few minutes, the tuner temps dropped quite a bit and after several hours are now in the range of 41.8 C to 45.9 C. Though Ceton says they're fine up to 65 C, I'll feel better knowing they aren't pushing the limit. Next on the agenda is to fasten the fans down to my rack shelf so they can't tip over or shift position as they're currently just sitting loose.
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post #285 of 1094 Old 06-18-2013, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Since it's starting to get warm, but not quite warm enough to turn the A/C on yet, my tuner temps had started creeping up to a little over 61 C. So I decided to setup some PC case fans to cool them down this morning. I used a couple of old 80mm Panaflo fans (1 for each InfiniTV 6 ETH) I had kicking around and hooked them up to a 12V 300ma wall wart power supply. Within a few minutes, the tuner temps dropped quite a bit and after several hours are now in the range of 41.8 C to 45.9 C. Though Ceton says they're fine up to 65 C, I'll feel better knowing they aren't pushing the limit. Next on the agenda is to fasten the fans down to my rack shelf so they can't tip over or shift position as they're currently just sitting loose.

Since ETH resides on the network, Ceton could have used a bigger case, perhaps with some heatsinks or active fans to keep the tuner cool. There is no real reason for them to cram it into the old InifniTV4 USB box.

Even a tiny 30-60 mm chipset fan would probably generate enough air flow to keep it cool.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #286 of 1094 Old 06-18-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

Since ETH resides on the network, Ceton could have used a bigger case, perhaps with some heatsinks or active fans to keep the tuner cool. There is no real reason for them to cram it into the old InifniTV4 USB box.

Even a tiny 30-60 mm chipset fan would probably generate enough air flow to keep it cool.
Ceton adding a fan or making the case larger would just result in some customers complaining about fan noise or that the case is too big. I've got no complaints, I was just sharing that adding a fan made a pretty substantial difference as a few others have also found. Personally, I prefer having the option of adding my own fan rather than having one built in - it gives me more choices and it's easier to fix if/when the fan wears out. YMMV
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post #287 of 1094 Old 06-18-2013, 04:14 PM
 
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Adding my own fan is a better choice as well...though I think Ceton should market an option fan you can purchase that clicks onto the case and matches it in appearance...have two versions, one USB and one 110VAC (with transformer) - but both versions be silent.
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post #288 of 1094 Old 06-24-2013, 12:29 PM
 
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I noticed that, as my device aged, I get better performance with a less attenuation. I do not know if the product has a burn in period, after which it will no longer change, but I reduced my attenuation and now my speeds are faster than ever.
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post #289 of 1094 Old 06-24-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Based on how I understand they implemented the pooling, this actually shouldn't be a problem when accessing tuners from the pool. The reason (if I understand how they've implemented the pooling correctly) is that if WMC asks for tuner #3 (for example), the Ceton pool will simply give it whatever tuner is currently available - so WMC could end up actually getting tuner #1, #2, #4, #5, or #6 even if tuner #3 is currently available. Hopefully Eric will jump in and confirm this is correct or explain how it actually works if I'm wrong.

I cannot speak to the logic our competitors use, but ours is as follows:
First, attempt to assign the requested tuner
If requested not available try tuner 0
If tuner 0 is not available, try tuner 1
If tuner 1 is not available, try tuner 2
If tuner 2 is not available, try tuner 3
If tuner 3 is not available, try tuner 4
If tuner 4 is not available, try tuner 5


To go with your example from above, lets suppose that if we have 2 PCs assigned to the InfiniTV 6 ETH. PC #1 is using Tuner 3 and all other tuners are free. If PC #2 requests tuner #3, it will be assigned physical tuner #0, though from WMC's perspective, it will be using tuner 3.

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post #290 of 1094 Old 06-24-2013, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I noticed that, as my device aged, I get better performance with a less attenuation. I do not know if the product has a burn in period, after which it will no longer change, but I reduced my attenuation and now my speeds are faster than ever.

There is no burn-in period with the InfiniTV and performance should not change in any measurable way.

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post #291 of 1094 Old 06-24-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

I cannot speak to the logic our competitors use, but ours is as follows:
First, attempt to assign the requested tuner
If requested not available try tuner 0
If tuner 0 is not available, try tuner 1
If tuner 1 is not available, try tuner 2
If tuner 2 is not available, try tuner 3
If tuner 3 is not available, try tuner 4
If tuner 4 is not available, try tuner 5


To go with your example from above, lets suppose that if we have 2 PCs assigned to the InfiniTV 6 ETH. PC #1 is using Tuner 3 and all other tuners are free. If PC #2 requests tuner #3, it will be assigned physical tuner #0, though from WMC's perspective, it will be using tuner 3.

Does tuned and stopped (not playing) have any impact on this logic? Some how tuner 4 is most used.
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post #292 of 1094 Old 06-24-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

Does tuned and stopped (not playing) have any impact on this logic? Some how tuner 4 is most used.
When AVTransport stop is called, the tuner is released.

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post #293 of 1094 Old 06-24-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

When AVTransport stop is called, the tuner is released.

I still have a ticket open on an issue that I'm seeing related to the tuner being "released".

I understand the "released" tuner is back in the pool and available for WMC.

However, if I have 3 tuners set to the same channel, and STOPPED (say to check signal strength) then tune a 4th tuner to the same channel through WMC (PLAYING), I get severe pixelation. So obviously released tuners still have some impact on the InfiniTV6 ETH. All different channels is not an issue.
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post #294 of 1094 Old 06-24-2013, 09:38 PM
 
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There is no burn-in period with the InfiniTV and performance should not change in any measurable way.

It is on Verizon's side then. No biggie. smile.gif

I am enjoying the extra tuners. I do want to be able to buy a custom fan built to snap onto the tuner.
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post #295 of 1094 Old 06-25-2013, 08:21 PM
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For those that did the Beta firmware update, how long did it take? I've had it running, and it's on step 1/8 .. and has been for about 30+ minutes now. I figure I'll just let it go overnight and see what happens, but I didn't expect it to take quite this long.
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post #296 of 1094 Old 06-25-2013, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

For those that did the Beta firmware update, how long did it take? I've had it running, and it's on step 1/8 .. and has been for about 30+ minutes now. I figure I'll just let it go overnight and see what happens, but I didn't expect it to take quite this long.

It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes. I would recommend that you power-cycle the InfiniTV and try again. If it's only on step 1, it didn't actually start flashing.

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post #297 of 1094 Old 06-26-2013, 10:33 AM
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My Ceton InfiniTV 6 ETH should be arriving today and while I have a lot of experience with the InfiniTV 4 PCIe cards (I have two installed in two different HTPCs), what should I do to prepare the InfiniTV 6 for my house? I want to use the dynamic tuner pooling, so I would assume that I need to update to the beta firmware. Also, I'm going to rip out my PCIe cards (anyone in the market for one? smile.gif) and connect up my HTPCs to the InfiniTV 6 (sans CableCARD until Friday)...should I remove the Ceton drivers from my PCs and then re-set up Windows Media Center on each? Just curious.

Very excited about this switch to WOW as they tag most programs as "Copy Freely", unlike Insight, which I have now, who tags everything "Copy Once" except ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX. Will be nice to finally be able to record The Daily Show in the livingroom and watch it in the den smile.gif.

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post #298 of 1094 Old 06-26-2013, 04:26 PM
 
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I would uninstall the drivers and reinstall after you do the connection and install the cablecard. You will then have to redo your WMC setup to find the new tuner, of course. Other than that, just try to plug the tuner into the same switch as your HTPCs.
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post #299 of 1094 Old 06-26-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I would uninstall the drivers and reinstall after you do the connection and install the cablecard. You will then have to redo your WMC setup to find the new tuner, of course. Other than that, just try to plug the tuner into the same switch as your HTPCs.

There should be no need to uninstall/reinstall drivers, but make sure you are on the latest drivers

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post #300 of 1094 Old 06-27-2013, 05:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

There should be no need to uninstall/reinstall drivers, but make sure you are on the latest drivers

I agree, but I ran into an issue where I had to install the same drivers twice (not remove them, install them on top of themselves) in order for it to see more than 4 tuners. Not sure if an uninstall and reinstall would have shown 6 from the start or not.
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