Improving live tv picture quality in WMC 7/8 64 bit, through post processing questions... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I curious about what setups others are using and having success with. Loading my WMC recordings into MPC-HC + Lav + Mad VR + Avisynth gives a pretty good bump to quality. I realize MadVR is a no-go on 64bit, but FFDshow and avisynth filters could feasibly work.

I have a Ceton InfiniTV4 and a HD Home Run Prime. GPU/CPU processing power isn't a concern as my HTPC doubles as a gaming rig. I've been messing around with Jriver this past week and it's tempting to switch, but I'd rather keep WMC as my front end for the time being.

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post #2 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 06:42 AM
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So what's the question?

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post #3 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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What setups/methods are people using in WMC 7/8 x64 to improve PQ?

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post #4 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 07:47 AM
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I am pretty satisfied with the PQ in WMC for Live/Recorded TV. I don't know if there is a whole lot that can be done. JRiver can use madVR for this but you lose the ability to watch/record any copy-protected content but once you load filters other than Media Foundation for TV playback you lose the DRM protections.

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post #5 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 07:49 AM
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You can't process any content that is copy-protected.
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess that's where I am confused. All of my channels are copy freely. There are posts online about how people have used SVP or FFDshow raw to post-process live tv in WMC x64. Is this only possible with OTA broadcasts, or is it possible with a cablecard setup as well.

WMC live tv qualityy isn't horrible, but after seeing what is possible by playing back recordings in MPC-HC, or using the Jriver player, I'd like to know what, if anything, is possible in WMC 7/8 x64.

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post #7 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 08:04 AM
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You can use whatever you want for PVR software with a CableCARD Tuner so long as the content is not marked Copy Once (or Never). Only the Copy Protected content is restricted to WMC. These are typically the premiums or certain channels in the HD premium tier (Digi Tiers on Charter, for example). But doing this will require that you use and keep track of two PVR's. I am not sure but am willing to bet that ceton and JRiver may change this ball game.

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post #8 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 08:06 AM
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copy-protection is per channel. It is up to your specific cable provider to label which channel requires copy-protection. In most cases, that are only applied to premium channels. In some cases, they can mark all channels as copy-protected. CableCard tuner doesn't automatically mean copy-protection.

In WMC, if you want to playback or watch any copy-protected channels, you can't alter the built-in protected playback path in Media Foundation. If you do, WMC will refuse to let you watch those channels. .
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

copy-protection is per channel. It is up to your specific cable provider to label which channel requires copy-protection. In most cases, that are only applied to premium channels. In some cases, they can mark all channels as copy-protected. CableCard tuner doesn't automatically mean copy-protection.

In WMC, if you want to playback or watch any copy-protected channels, you can't alter the built-in protected playback path in Media Foundation. If you do, WMC will refuse to let you watch those channels. .

This very concisely says what I was saying..

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post #10 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 08:37 AM
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WMC uses DirectShow for (encrypted or unencrypted) TV.
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 08:47 AM
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Yes it does but it is within the Media Foundation Protected Pipeline for DRM. Thanks for the clarification, renethx. Nevertheless the use of other filters and renderers will break DRM because they are outside the pipeline. You are stuck with Media Foundation (DirectShow in earlier versions) filters and WMV 9 (EVR) renderer.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb189661.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Foundation

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post #12 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

copy-protection is per channel.
Technically, it's per program if we are talking about the CCI flag. Providers just usually mark all programs (shows) on a channel the same way (copy-once or copy-freely).
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I should explain better. I don't mind using the MS decoders or renderer, but what I'm looking to do is inject FFDshow somewhere in the pipeline so that I can add avisynth scripts to live tv. I'd like to add a sharpen filter and something that expands limited range video to full range similar to madvr through avisynth. I'm not partial to whether or not this means replacing the MS decoder with FFDshow, or using FFDshow Raw to just post-process the video.

For clarity, I'm not using any codec packs, but when I see threads like this, it seems possible:
http://shark007.net/forum/Thread-Win7Codecs-settings-with-subtitles-in-almost-all-video-formats-and-MCP-use-possible

Right now, the FFDshow decoder is in my pipeline (all codecs disabled, raw video at "all Supported") in Graphstudio x64, but it isn't doing anything. I set a bitmap overlay in FFDshow for the testing purposes and am having no luck getting it to appear. I'm using windows 8 WMC.

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post #14 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 10:25 AM
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As stated earlier, it is going to depend on whether your provide marks content with the CCI flag for copy protection but you cannot use WMC's native Player in the case that you want to alter the codecs and/or splitters.

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post #15 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 10:31 AM
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Have you tried MCDU? I am not sure of the current status even for clear contents. I remember I wrote lots about this topic in the past, e.g. this post.
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I've tried MCDU. If I switch to FFD show decoder, it can't find my install of FFDshow (it is missing in the graph.) When I use lavfilters through MCDU, it changes correctly in the graph, and live tv throws a decoder error, but strangely enough I can play recorded content just fine with lav filters.

MCDU can also get stuck and be unable to change back to MS decoders. It might be bacuase I'm on Windows 8. Luckily, I'm testing this on a test machine and I made restore points before I started.

DSfiltertweaker isn't working for me either...

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post #17 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nadafinga View Post

Maybe I should explain better. I don't mind using the MS decoders or renderer, but what I'm looking to do is inject FFDshow somewhere in the pipeline so that I can add avisynth scripts to live tv.

Let me explain it better as well: if the show is copy-protected, you can't inject jack into the playback chain (it is called protected playback chain for a reason). If you do, you will get a nice blue screen tell you that your system does not support DRM required. If the show is not copy-protected, you can do anything you want. But it is an all or nothing deal. You either don;t care about copy-protected show at all and add any filters you want or you have to leave it untouched.
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post #18 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nadafinga View Post

I guess that's where I am confused. All of my channels are copy freely. There are posts online about how people have used SVP or FFDshow raw to post-process live tv in WMC x64. Is this only possible with OTA broadcasts, or is it possible with a cablecard setup as well.

WMC live tv qualityy isn't horrible, but after seeing what is possible by playing back recordings in MPC-HC, or using the Jriver player, I'd like to know what, if anything, is possible in WMC 7/8 x64.

If this is the case you should be able to do what you wish. I believe you can even launch MPC-HC from WMC using mikinho's "Open With" tool. I have not tried this before because I have to deal with DRM'd content but if it works for LiveTV streams you should be able to use madVR and LAV with it. As an external player you probably will lose the PVR overlay from WMC if it works for LiveTV streams though.

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post #19 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm on Comcast. Comcast doesn't flag any shows except premium channels (HBO, Showtime, etc.) I don't subscribe to any premium channels. I completely understand how DRM and copy flags work in WMC.

I'll keep plugging away and see if I can accomplish anything.

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post #20 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nadafinga View Post

I've tried MCDU. If I switch to FFD show decoder, it can't find my install of FFDshow (it is missing in the graph.) When I use lavfilters through MCDU, it changes correctly in the graph, and live tv throws a decoder error, but strangely enough I can play recorded content just fine with lav filters.

MCDU can also get stuck and be unable to change back to MS decoders. It might be bacuase I'm on Windows 8. Luckily, I'm testing this on a test machine and I made restore points before I started.

DSfiltertweaker isn't working for me either...

1. Make sure you have ffdshow x64 installed.
2. You might need to add WMC to the ffdshow whitelist.
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post #21 of 21 Old 05-17-2013, 04:23 PM
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couldn't you use mcebuddy to turn the recorded .wtv into .mkv then playback using mpc-hc with madvr?

That would be similar to jriver quality

and work for everything BUT live (not recorded) tv
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