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post #181 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

How many games do you know that use more than 5GB of RAM to play?

Console lifecycles are getting longer. Ask that question a few years from now, and 5GB could seem pretty meager.
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post #182 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 12:21 PM
 
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It is always possible, but currently the larger games still take under 8GB for their entire installation. I think we will be fine during the lifespan of the Xbox One. Next gen after that, who knows. I am basing this on Sony's Playstation 4 only have 8GB of memory total and its OS must also use a chunk of that.
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post #183 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 12:30 PM
 
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(A) Its my GD hardware it shouldn't be spying on me in the first place.

If you actually think they are "spying on you", then have fun with it instead. Turn the tables. Put a picture of a large, nasty turd in front of the camera at all times...or maybe pictures of a Dilate and Extract (D&X) abortion procedure. If they are spying on you, they will stop looking at your feed after seeing either of those pictures repeatedly. smile.gif
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post #184 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

If you actually think they are "spying on you", then have fun with it instead. Turn the tables. Put a picture of a large, nasty turd in front of the camera at all times...or maybe pictures of a Dilate and Extract (D&X) abortion procedure. If they are spying on you, they will stop looking at your feed after seeing either of those pictures repeatedly. smile.gif

I'm pretty sure the Kinect2 will be able to detect when it's view is blocked (like it's been turned to face the wall). That's what I've read anyway, and it makes sense. MS want the thing staring out in your living space. That's why they want to own the lounge. It's where people spend most of there time, either playing games, watching TV or many other 'things'. I'm sorry, but when MS made the Kinect mandatory (and they never reversed this in their massive U-turn they did), and the whole PRISM thing blew, they just walked right into it. It's now apparent that MS opened their firewalls wide and let the NSA march right in and take whatever they wanted. I'm not saying this will happen with advertisers, but as a software and services company, the Kinect is mearly the beginning of one of the biggest intrusions directly into your homes there's ever been, and they're selling it as a 'games console' (sort of).

I over simplified the benefits the advertisers will get. This thing has got a very scary potential.
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post #185 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 03:54 PM
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You are right, there is no way to get around the cable companies at this point. But at least now I can control the way that I consume the media I purchase. Pulling media center out of the xbone would be a serious regression in consumer capability. Renting cable boxes is equivalent to renting a cable modem.

If MS already had deals with content providers in place to move technology forward, then fine. But they do not (and I mean HBO, espn, local networks, etc...). And they would be selling out the crowd here that has been heavily supporting their products for many years - bad move. There is NO excuse to pull backwards compatibility for MCE functionality - just copy the code over. The only purpose would be to try and force their new half-baked media strategy on us.



I'm talking about deals MS is working on as we speak.

I mean seriously, have you guys not seen the many signs that MS is heavily pursuing getting content directly on the xbox, not relying on a cable subscription? What gets me is that some wont even consider the possibility of things getting better. The assumption is that MS' media strategy is the exact same one as the 360, when in fact we see plenty of evidence that its way bigger than that now.

Look, I'm a long time WMC user and I do think they should offer WMC users the same extender option for at least this new generation. My only point is that alternatives COULD be coming our way. I know that its the live tv/cable card situation that needs to be fixed, but for those of us not using cable card or don't want to be tied to a cable subscription, there are alternatives.

I've said it before, but the fact that Win 8 is built into the X1 says a lot about the possibilities of this console for media use. All it takes is MS pushing a store that works like the Windows Store. I have personally been ready to migrate away from MC due to its clear limitation for growth and new feature support. MB3 will allow me to keep the same experience I like but now with software that is a lot more future leaning, built with expansion in mind. If MS can successfully bring real streaming content to the X1, enough that I no longer need cable to get that content, then I'll be very happy.
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post #186 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 04:15 PM
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Like I said, lots of paranoia going on here now, I dispute that any of this is harmful in any way but OMG they're all spying on us... rolleyes.gif

Advertising has two roles - (1) to inform people with a problem of solutions to their problem and (2) to convince people they have a problem that needs a solution. The first is good the second is bad, unfortunately all advertising gravitates towards the second type because our economy is based on spending moar. It is patently against my interests to help these companies figure out how to better manipulate me. In no way is that good for anyone except the companies trying to do the manipulation.

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All of this will be disclosed is my point (one way or the other) AND you will be able to opt-out, it's not going to be a hidden agenda - hence the tin-foil hatting.

Sure.... You know all those "opt-out" settings for not being tracked on the web? They aren't really opt-outs of being tracked, they still collect all the information about you, they just don't remind you of it by directly using it to do things like have advertisements follow you from one website to another. But they are still building a dossier on you and any chance they get that does not conflict with the fine-print of the "opt-out", they'll still use it.

As for not being a hidden agenda - want to guess how many trackers are here on avsforum watching you right now as you read this?
A minimum of 8 different trackers building dossiers on each person reading this. 10 to 1 you haven't even heard the names of more than two of these companies before, much less considered opting out.

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post #187 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 04:15 PM
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I'm pretty sure the Kinect2 will be able to detect when it's view is blocked (like it's been turned to face the wall). That's what I've read anyway, and it makes sense. MS want the thing staring out in your living space. That's why they want to own the lounge. It's where people spend most of there time, either playing games, watching TV or many other 'things'. I'm sorry, but when MS made the Kinect mandatory (and they never reversed this in their massive U-turn they did), and the whole PRISM thing blew, they just walked right into it. It's now apparent that MS opened their firewalls wide and let the NSA march right in and take whatever they wanted. I'm not saying this will happen with advertisers, but as a software and services company, the Kinect is mearly the beginning of one of the biggest intrusions directly into your homes there's ever been, and they're selling it as a 'games console' (sort of).

I over simplified the benefits the advertisers will get. This thing has got a very scary potential.


Of course Kinect can detect when its view is blocked. That's not new, Kinect V1 can do that. That's a function it must have in order to calibrate properly.

The part that is important is that you can in fact cover the camera up if you want, or turn it around. That will still work with Kinect 2. With Kinect V1, you had no software control over which functions, if any, were enabled or disabled. With Kinect 2, they added such controls.


The NSA stuff is way, way, way too unconfirmed to be convincing in my opinion. The only thing we know is that MS, along with just about every other big US tech company, was forced to provide information in accordance with dubious laws that the government thinks allows them to press companies in this manner. I haven't seen any evidence that MS is willy nilly letting the NSA just have free access to whatever they want, whenever they want. I think the Snowden leak was what started that rumor, but I haven't seen any confirmation. For what I have gathered, it seems that MS was doing what Google, Apple, etc were doing: When the government pressed them for information via their services with the backing of dubious laws and pressure, they would comply, but not in a blanket fashion. Now clearly, the government is out of line and its abusing whatever laws it thinks gives it the right to demand these things, but I'm much less convinced that MS or any of these companies has allowed the government unfettered access to all of their data, encrypted or not. Frankly, I 'm more inclined to believe that the NSA employed hacking techniques to gather information from these companies than the companies opening up the gates.

Look, if you are that convinced that all of these companies are just letting the NSA move in to get whatever they want, then that's up to you. Luckily, you can avoid all of the services these companies offer and then be relatively isolated from any potential reach of the NSA, but I'm not convinced its as extreme as is claimed. What I want is to put pressure on our government to change, but that's a topic for another day.


Kinect in fact is a gaming device. I know you see it as simply a spying tool, but it does in fact offer gaming abilities. Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing how the improved hardware can improve its performance for gaming and if developers take the risk and try out new gaming mechanics with it. Everyone needs to decide for themselves what the privacy implications are and if they are too big to be worth it.
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post #188 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

Advertising has two roles - (1) to inform people with a problem of solutions to their problem and (2) to convince people they have a problem that needs a solution. The first is good the second is bad, unfortunately all advertising gravitates towards the second type because our economy is based on spending moar. It is patently against my interests to help these companies figure out how to better manipulate me. In no way is that good for anyone except the companies trying to do the manipulation.
Sure.... You know all those "opt-out" settings for not being tracked on the web? They aren't really opt-outs of being tracked, they still collect all the information about you, they just don't remind you of it by directly using it to do things like have advertisements follow you from one website to another. But they are still building a dossier on you and any chance they get that does not conflict with the fine-print of the "opt-out", they'll still use it.

As for not being a hidden agenda - want to guess how many trackers are here on avsforum watching you right now as you read this?
A minimum of 8 different trackers building dossiers on each person reading this. 10 to 1 you haven't even heard the names of more than two of these companies before, much less even considered opting out.


Ok I think this discussion is important, but someone should really move it to another thread. We have veered way of topic at this point.

I'll just say this, the internet is, by design, open and free. That means its open to all sorts of tracking, etc. Some groups find ways to make this tracking useful to them, others try to find ways of blocking this tracking. Overall, no one should assume that anything related to the internet is truly 'safe'. Any device or service that passes data over the internet is equally exposed. So we have to decide if that negative outweighs the positives of a free and open platform that has spawned countless useful services.

Regarding ads, there is a great solution to it: using your brain. As long as consumers actually do their homework, they can see through any advertising and know if they really want or need the product.
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post #189 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 04:36 PM
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I'll just say this, the internet is, by design, open and free.
That's a red herring. This is specifically about hardware I paid for being used against my interests. Just because the internet is the backend does not make it any more or less acceptable. My point in spelling out the trackers on this website was to contradict the claim that tracking would not be a hidden agenda when it is already hidden from the vast majority of users even today.
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Regarding ads, there is a great solution to it: using your brain. As long as consumers actually do their homework, they can see through any advertising and know if they really want or need the product.

Sorry, randian uber-man defense of advertising is short-sighted. The people most susceptible to advertising are the ones who think they are immune. The industry spends hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars trying to figure out how to press people's buttons - no one, not even an uber-man can withstand that level of psychological manipulation.

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post #190 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 05:45 PM
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That's a red herring. This is specifically about hardware I paid for being used against my interests. Just because the internet is the backend does not make it any more or less acceptable. My point in spelling out the trackers on this website was to contradict the claim that tracking would not be a hidden agenda when it is already hidden from the vast majority of users even today.
Sorry, randian uber-man defense of advertising is short-sighted. The people most susceptible to advertising are the ones who think they are immune. The industry spends hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars trying to figure out how to press people's buttons - no one, not even an uber-man can withstand that level of psychological manipulation.


Wait, are you saying that you are also susceptible and have also been manipulated? Why are you participating in a market of devices/services that you know are violating your rights in some way?

It sure sounds like you feel like you know how it all works. Usually exposing the secret of a magic trick makes one immune to believing in that magic.

If your point is that we are all brainwashed and there is nothing to resist it, well you have created a convenient argument that can't be countered. Any counter I might have can be dismissed since I'm just as brainwashed as you are.

All any of us can do is do out best to investigate any claims by a company and make an informed decision. If we start to assume that its impossible to be informed, then you might as well give up participating in society.
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post #191 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 06:24 PM
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Wait, are you saying that you are also susceptible and have also been manipulated?

Of course I have - everyone in America not living in a cave has been manipulated by marketing to one degree or another. I do my best to avoid advertising completely, it is basically impossible to do that -- even if you skip explicit advertisements there are still things like product placement, paid-for reviews and "viral marketing" among hundreds of other techniques -- but I do my best to minimize my exposure.

And that includes not purchasing hardware designed to increase my exposure.

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post #192 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 06:40 PM
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If you don't like a certain feature then don't buy the product. Companies only respond to the bottom line. If you are upset by certain features but buy it anyway, then is it really that big of a issue to you? Personally I wouldn't buy something if I felt so strongly against it. (I'm not pointing fingers here just giving my opinion)

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post #193 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 06:58 PM
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If you don't like a certain feature then don't buy the product.

That is the "love it or leave it" fallacy. It isn't helpful because it is designed to shutdown discussion.

I won't be buying an xbone if this problem is not addressed. But I want it addressed so I am talking about it.

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post #194 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by migraine24-7 View Post

If you don't like a certain feature then don't buy the product.

That is the "love it or leave it" fallacy. It isn't helpful because it is designed to shutdown discussion.

I won't be buying an xbone if this problem is not addressed. But I want it addressed so I am talking about it.

I couldn't agree more. We are on the same page. I'm trying to get answers from Fanatec about next gen compatibility and nothing but silence. But I'm not giving up.smile.gif I believe open, honest and respectful discussions should be welcome by all.

I tend to disagree with your concern but your entitled to your opinion and I respect that. My concern with Kinect is that I run all my components thru my home distribution system. How will this work if I have to use Kinect? Haven't gotten a answer yet.

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post #195 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 08:34 PM
 
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And that includes not purchasing hardware designed to increase my exposure.

Like owning a television.
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post #196 of 340 Old 07-18-2013, 10:49 PM
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That is the "love it or leave it" fallacy. It isn't helpful because it is designed to shutdown discussion.

I won't be buying an xbone if this problem is not addressed. But I want it addressed so I am talking about it.




That's fair enough, but what do you propose as the solution? Would it be as simple as MS allowing the user to disconnect Kinect or do you feel the only solution is remove Kinect completely?



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I couldn't agree more. We are on the same page. I'm trying to get answers from Fanatec about next gen compatibility and nothing but silence. But I'm not giving up.smile.gif I believe open, honest and respectful discussions should be welcome by all.

I tend to disagree with your concern but your entitled to your opinion and I respect that. My concern with Kinect is that I run all my components thru my home distribution system. How will this work if I have to use Kinect? Haven't gotten a answer yet.

Well if you aren't interested in using its features, then I guess you would just leave it near the X1 with all your other components and then disable its function within the X1 dash.

If you do want to use it, then you have no choice but to run an extension of some sort from the Kinect in your theater room to the X1. I haven't seen the actual connector that Kinect uses, but I know its based on USB 3.0. Best case scenario it is a USB 3 connector and you simply get an appropriate extension cable. Worst case its a modified form of USB 3. The first Kinect uses a standard USB 2.0 connector, so I wouldn't be shocked if MS sticks to a standard USB 3 connector.
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post #197 of 340 Old 07-19-2013, 04:36 AM
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If you do want to use it, then you have no choice but to run an extension of some sort from the Kinect in your theater room to the X1.

Those are basically my two problems with Kinect, 1) I couldn't care less about it, and 2) my Xbox is in a closed cabinet on the opposite end of the house from my screen. Not sure how that's supposed to work.
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Best case scenario it is a USB 3 connector and you simply get an appropriate extension cable.

Except USB isn't known for working well over long distances.
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Worst case its a modified form of USB 3. The first Kinect uses a standard USB 2.0 connector, so I wouldn't be shocked if MS sticks to a standard USB 3 connector.

Well Kinect didn't exist when they designed the Xbox 360, so they had to use a port it already had. The One is designed to use the Kinect 2 so there's nothing stopping them from using something more "appropriate".

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #198 of 340 Old 07-19-2013, 06:06 AM
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That's fair enough, but what do you propose as the solution? Would it be as simple as MS allowing the user to disconnect Kinect or do you feel the only solution is remove Kinect completely?

A physical switch along with an LED directly wired to that switch (not under software control) would be a good start.


I'd also like to see Microsoft publicly eschew the use of xbox as an advertising platform. Today they promise not to share your personal information, but as long as they are working hand in hand with the marketing industry the pressure to lawyer away their original promises will be intense.

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post #199 of 340 Old 07-19-2013, 10:01 AM
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Today they promise not to share your personal information, but as long as they are working hand in hand with the marketing industry the pressure to lawyer away their original promises will be intense.

And you could say that about any corporation dealing with the public (and some that don't as you pointed out before), so I'm still not seeing the big deal here. If you buy an Xbone, don't be surprised if MS wants to market other stuff to you with the platform. It's the American Way. wink.gif
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post #200 of 340 Old 07-19-2013, 06:03 PM
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And you could say that about any corporation dealing with the public (and some that don't as you pointed out before), so I'm still not seeing the big deal here.

"Everybody else is a jerk so it's fine if MS is a jerk too."

(1) not everyone else is a jerk.
(2) just because bad behaviour is common that's no excuse to accept it, even be an apologist for it, rather than protest and boycott it.

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If you buy an Xbone, don't be surprised if MS wants to market other stuff to you with the platform. It's the American Way. wink.gif

As if overt and direct advertising is the only kind of marketing when that is really just the tip of iceberg.

It isn't just about MS marketing their own stuff directly to people who paid for the xbone, as annoying as that is. It is about MS using incidental data that they collect and selling that to the data aggregators who build massive dossiers on people to manipulate them in ways that you have clearly never even considered. For example, Target - the retailer - goes to enormous lengths to figure out when its female customers are pregnant even before they tell their own families because they think it gives them a marketing edge. If their statisticians are able to find a correlation between changes in game play and pregnancy, there is no doubt that Target would convince MS to sell them that info.

The idea that we must live in a corporate fish bowl just to participate in everyday life is ridiculous, obscene even because it means sacrificing the basic human dignity of living life unmolested for some sort of panopticon serving amoral corporate interests. It really is indefensible.
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Here is my opinion.
Are we being watched in ways we don't know? Of course. To not think so is, naive. Will it stop or even become less. NO! We all have the right to voice our opinions. Some of the most obtrusive laws passed because no one spoke up. Do I think anything will change with the ONE? No. But when sometime, down the road, someone's info gets leaked or sold don't complain. It'll be too late.

Here's a quote about government. " A government big enough to give you everything is also a government big enough to take everything away." How does this relate? MS wants the ONE to be "everything to everyone". So could they use it against you? Darn right. Do I think it's Armageddon? No. Just further down the slippery slope we started on when the Internet started. No turning back now. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight back. We should. IMO

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post #202 of 340 Old 07-20-2013, 04:10 AM
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There is something overtly sinister about the long-term possibilities MS have with the XB1/Kinect2, and it's deeply concerning to many. Windows 8.1 is going to partly mirror this functionality with it's 'revised' search engine, feeding huge amounts of data back to MS. One wonders if you can truly opt-out as well, and the average user won't even be aware they can. It's also highly likely your Windows account will be the same as your XBL account, or linked, so all the data is pooled. If you feed your TV through th XB1, MS will know about everything you watch and when you watch it. It's likely the movies you watch on the console will be logged and sent back for analysis as well, and apps installs/purchases will be further used to target individuals.

If the Kinect2 can monitor heart rate, stress levels, temperature for example (and it can see in the dark), there's no escaping it. I'm sure MS will one day say how the Kinect2 saved someones life by detecting they were ill or having a heart attack, and then box called emergency services, but the whole concept of this level of intrusion and monitoring is taking everything to the next level.

Once MS start re-introducing all the DRM they 'dropped' in their U-turn to gain public acceptance and save face, the whole package will be complete for them.
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post #203 of 340 Old 07-20-2013, 06:51 AM
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The idea that we must live in a corporate fish bowl just to participate in everyday life is ridiculous, obscene even because it means sacrificing the basic human dignity of living life unmolested for some sort of panopticon serving amoral corporate interests. It really is indefensible.

Windmills tilting, then pissing in the wind. That ship has sailed. If you don't like it, move to the boonies, go cash only and don't subscribe to HSI or anything else.

You know that we don't live in a democracy anymore, it's a corporatocracy and no amount of whining in forums is going to change that. And oh by the way, neither did the 'Occupy xyz' movements after Wall St. crooks nearly succeeded in sending us into another Depression.

I hear what you're saying and agree with the gist of it btw, I'm just too cynical now after what happened in 2008 (and that no one went to jail) to believe that anything will change because there's too much money and influence in play.
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post #204 of 340 Old 07-20-2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

I hear what you're saying and agree with the gist of it btw, I'm just too cynical now after what happened in 2008 (and that no one went to jail) to believe that anything will change because there's too much money and influence in play.

Well you know what is guaranteed to make sure that nothing will change? To defend the status quo. If you aren't willing to push back on it yourself, at least quit defending the system. That's not just being cynical, that's stockholm syndrome.

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post #205 of 340 Old 07-20-2013, 02:38 PM
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What I always see missing with the fear mongering is the benefits (advantages) that come along. By nature they far exceed the disadvantages or they wouldn't continue to exist. Sure for a few they might not (or at least they might not think so) but society as a whole gets served not individuals.
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post #206 of 340 Old 07-20-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

What I always see missing with the fear mongering is the benefits (advantages) that come along. By nature they far exceed the disadvantages or they wouldn't continue to exist. Sure for a few they might not (or at least they might not think so) but society as a whole gets served not individuals.

Ok, go for it. What is the benefit of secretive companies like BlueKai building up extensive dossiers that contain information on every aspect of our lives that they can get a hold of, that they then turn around and sell to other companies looking to get leverage on us?

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post #207 of 340 Old 07-21-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

Well you know what is guaranteed to make sure that nothing will change? To defend the status quo. If you aren't willing to push back on it yourself, at least quit defending the system. That's not just being cynical, that's stockholm syndrome.

No one here is defending what MS plans to do with Kinect or anything else in the Xbone, simply saying that if they do anything egregrious it will come out one way or the other and will change with public pressure.

Everything else here is just whining about the data gathering and analysis that is par for the course now, but if you don't like it you can continue to piss in the wind I guess. You're not going to change anything, so the other option is to not buy the products that you think result in excessive dossiers being compiled on you.
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post #208 of 340 Old 07-21-2013, 08:14 AM
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Another thread discusses "why is forum traffic so slow anymore"? I think this thread represents the answer.

Forum mods would do well to lock this and get people to move on...
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post #209 of 340 Old 07-21-2013, 09:50 AM
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Those are basically my two problems with Kinect, 1) I couldn't care less about it, and 2) my Xbox is in a closed cabinet on the opposite end of the house from my screen. Not sure how that's supposed to work.
Except USB isn't known for working well over long distances.
Well Kinect didn't exist when they designed the Xbox 360, so they had to use a port it already had. The One is designed to use the Kinect 2 so there's nothing stopping them from using something more "appropriate".


Well its simple for you. You don't want to use Kinect, so you simply leave it sitting on top or behind your Xbox in the cabinet. On the box dash, you disable Kinect features and your all done. Now its as if it isn't even there.

I agree about the cable issue, I'm not sure how long a cable could be and not lose the Kinect single.


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There is something overtly sinister about the long-term possibilities MS have with the XB1/Kinect2, and it's deeply concerning to many. Windows 8.1 is going to partly mirror this functionality with it's 'revised' search engine, feeding huge amounts of data back to MS. One wonders if you can truly opt-out as well, and the average user won't even be aware they can. It's also highly likely your Windows account will be the same as your XBL account, or linked, so all the data is pooled. If you feed your TV through th XB1, MS will know about everything you watch and when you watch it. It's likely the movies you watch on the console will be logged and sent back for analysis as well, and apps installs/purchases will be further used to target individuals.

If the Kinect2 can monitor heart rate, stress levels, temperature for example (and it can see in the dark), there's no escaping it. I'm sure MS will one day say how the Kinect2 saved someones life by detecting they were ill or having a heart attack, and then box called emergency services, but the whole concept of this level of intrusion and monitoring is taking everything to the next level.

Once MS start re-introducing all the DRM they 'dropped' in their U-turn to gain public acceptance and save face, the whole package will be complete for them.


I don't know, I'm just not as convinced as you that this is all one big conspiracy to push advertising and control everything you do. Heck, you could apply all your concerns to Google, Apple, Sony, just about all the big tech companies have a similar strategy of owning the living room and most use advertising as some source of revenue, Google being the worst offender.

As far as escaping Kinect, um yes, you can. You make it sound like some hidden camera that you have no control over. This is one claim I think is completely unfounded. I have a Kinect for the 360 and I have a cloth over it when not in use. Guess what....it can't see me through it. Same will be true of the X1 Kinect. As far as tracking heart rates, etc, this is not new. Nintendo is work on such a thing for use with their WiiFit stuff and Sony has been working on a controller that can detect stress levels and perspiration.

Again, this all boils down to if you feel any of these features have legitimate uses beyond the idea of spying on you and controlling your choices.


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A physical switch along with an LED directly wired to that switch (not under software control) would be a good start.

I'd also like to see Microsoft publicly eschew the use of xbox as an advertising platform. Today they promise not to share your personal information, but as long as they are working hand in hand with the marketing industry the pressure to lawyer away their original promises will be intense.


But then that begs the question: If you do offer a physical switch with an led, what's stopping MS from circumventing that and still operating Kinect without your knowledge? It seems pretty simple to fake a physical switch and an led light.

Isn't there a fair middle ground though? If you think all advertising is bad then so be it, but I feel like there is a middle ground where its ok to see some advertising. If MS were to just drop all advertising services, that would put them at a serious disadvantage to the other companies in the market.

To me, if you want to stop advertising, start by going after the content providers and the companies that advertise in the first place. Convince them to stop and then companies like MS will see no reason to cater to them.
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post #210 of 340 Old 07-21-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post

Another thread discusses "why is forum traffic so slow anymore"? I think this thread represents the answer.

Forum mods would do well to lock this and get people to move on...


Yeah, I was really hoping this thread would focus on new information announced regarding the X1, especially in relation to media services/playback. Instead, its gotten heavily derailed and now isn't very useful.
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