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Why does blurays have multiple playlists of the same file? How to tell which one is the valid one?

36K views 56 replies 17 participants last post by  hucky291158 
#1 ·
Hunger games for example. Not sure which one to choose in MakeMKV for ripping. Is there any easy way to find out the valid playlist?
 
#27 ·
Here's a quick screenshot from 'Warrior'

There are lots of fake playlists (So many they you can't see on one screenshot) and 5 with the same length as the movie, 789/790 are the only 2 correct.

As you can see MakeMKV doesn't have a clue what is correct and knowing the exact movie length from TMT still won't help.

AnyDVD HD tells me to use 789/790 which are correct.





Hopefully this can help people understand what Screenpass protection is and why its a pain.
 
#28 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...tell-which-one-is-the-valid-one#post_23422365


Here's a quick screenshot from 'Warrior'

There are lots of fake playlists (So many they you can't see on one screenshot) and 5 with the same length as the movie, 789/790 are the only 2 correct.

As you can see MakeMKV doesn't have a clue what is correct and knowing the exact movie length from TMT still won't help.

AnyDVD HD tells me to use 789/790 which are correct.





Hopefully this can help people understand what Screenpass protection is and why its a pain.

Yes, we knew MakeMKV doesn't have a way to tell you which playlist is the correct one. And we knew many BD movies have a lot of fake playlists to throw you off. Everyone other than OP (and a few others) already knew this.


From the two screen shots you posted, I can see, first screen shows a playlist of duration of 2.19.44 and the second is 2.19.54. There is no way to tell from the screen shots what durations of other playlists are. But my experience tell me, there is no fake playlist that will match the actual movie playtime and chapter counts (MakeMKV chapter counts are off by one compared to actual chapter count). So, it is easy to tell which playlist is real, which are fake.
 
#29 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...tell-which-one-is-the-valid-one#post_23422580


Yes, we knew MakeMKV doesn't have a way to tell you which playlist is the correct one. And we knew many BD movies have a lot of fake playlists to throw you off. Everyone other than OP (and a few others) already knew this.


From the two screen shots you posted, I can see, first screen shows a playlist of duration of 2.19.44 and the second is 2.19.54. There is no way to tell from the screen shots what durations of other playlists are. But my experience tell me, there is no fake playlist that will match the actual movie playtime and chapter counts (MakeMKV chapter counts are off by one compared to actual chapter count). So, it is easy to tell which playlist is real, which are fake.

Like I said there are multiple playlists with the exact runtime and exact chapter count as the correct playlist, but those playlists are made up of different stream files and will be out of order when played back.

So like I said the theory or your experience of correct runtime/chapters is not correct, so it is not just that easy.


Some screenshots of some incorrect playlists with the same runtime/chapter (2:19:54/ 16 Chapters) - compare them to my second screenshot in my last post which is the correct playlist (789) there is no difference other than the segment map.




 
#30 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...hich-one-is-the-valid-one/0_100#post_23422655


Like I said there are multiple playlists with the exact runtime and exact chapter count as the correct playlist, but those playlists are made up of different stream files and will be out of order when played back.

Right. It is amazing that some people in this thread cannot understand this simple (and annoying) issue.
 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...tell-which-one-is-the-valid-one#post_23418582


No, on the discs with this kind of protection, they are NOT all valid playlists. That is the point. Some of the invalid playlists have repeated scenes, missing scenes, a text warning inserted, out of order scenes, etc.

Hunger Games.
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...tell-which-one-is-the-valid-one#post_23422655


Like I said there are multiple playlists with the exact runtime and exact chapter count as the correct playlist, but those playlists are made up of different stream files and will be out of order when played back.

So like I said the theory or your experience of correct runtime/chapters is not correct, so it is not just that easy.


Some screenshots of some incorrect playlists with the same runtime/chapter (2:19:54/ 16 Chapters) - compare them to my second screenshot in my last post which is the correct playlist (789) there is no difference other than the segment map.

This is not correct in the context of the original example of Hunger Games. Hunger Games does use playlist obfuscation and as someone else already said it's a Lionsgate thing. I haven't seen it from any other studio. The obfuscated playlists aren't the same size and are not the same runtime. It's because it's playing multiple scenes more than once. It actually made it pretty easy to pick out the correct playlist on Hunger Games as it was the shortest full length playlist. AnyDVD and Aimersoft Blu-ray ripper are currently the only two rippers that I tested that actually pulled the correct playlist. If you load the disc with AnyDVD and just check the status of AnyDVD there will be a short log file summary with the correct playlist number.
 
#33 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23424265


This is not correct in the context of the original example of Hunger Games. Hunger Games does use playlist obfuscation and as someone else already said it's a Lionsgate thing. I haven't seen it from any other studio. The obfuscated playlists aren't the same size and are not the same runtime. It's because it's playing multiple scenes more than once. It actually made it pretty easy to pick out the correct playlist on Hunger Games as it was the shortest full length playlist. AnyDVD and Aimersoft Blu-ray ripper are currently the only two rippers that I tested that actually pulled the correct playlist. If you load the disc with AnyDVD and just check the status of AnyDVD there will be a short log file summary with the correct playlist number.

No, Hunger Games has the same protection (It's also a Lionsgate title), its just easier because there are less fake playlists and only one has the correct runtime.

My point was that not every disc is that easy, picking the longest/biggest file or the one with correct runtime will not always work as many people claimed in this thread.

Its not a big deal, either search online, or use a third party program if you have one, but hopefully MakeMKV will handle all these titles properly in a future update.
 
#35 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23424458


No, Hunger Games has the same protection (It's also a Lionsgate title), its just easier because there are less fake playlists and only one has the correct runtime.

My point was that not every disc is that easy, picking the longest/biggest file or the one with correct runtime will not always work as many people claimed in this thread.

Its not a big deal, either search online, or use a third party program if you have one, but hopefully MakeMKV will handle all these titles properly in a future update.

Actually searching online is a pretty futile effort. I spent quite a bit of time searching when I first tried to rip Hunger Games with absolutely no mention of a solution. Cinema Squid 's NEW Unofficial Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread is by far the best resource I've seen. I had no idea this existed until jkgiant posted ( post #5 ) it today.
 
#36 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23424499


DVDfab does a good job detecting the correct playlist. They update their software frequently to support newer disc like Hunger Games. Their technique is call path player, which tries to programmatically follow the menu to the correct title.

Yea DVDFab seems to work well. I used the latest version to find the correct playlist for Hunger Games.
 
#37 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...tell-which-one-is-the-valid-one#post_23422655


Like I said there are multiple playlists with the exact runtime and exact chapter count as the correct playlist, but those playlists are made up of different stream files and will be out of order when played back.

So like I said the theory or your experience of correct runtime/chapters is not correct, so it is not just that easy.


Some screenshots of some incorrect playlists with the same runtime/chapter (2:19:54/ 16 Chapters) - compare them to my second screenshot in my last post which is the correct playlist (789) there is no difference other than the segment map.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...tell-which-one-is-the-valid-one#post_23423207


Right. It is amazing that some people in this thread cannot understand this simple (and annoying) issue.

I have ripped couple dozen BD discs. Most of them have fake play lists (yes, Lion's gate seems favor this method). None have identical runtime and chapter count as real playlist so far. So, Warrior disc pointed above seems to be an exception, not the norm according to my personal experience.
 
#38 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23424752



I have ripped couple dozen BD discs. Most of them have fake play lists (yes, Lion's gate seems favor this method). None have identical runtime and chapter count as real playlist so far. So, Warrior disc pointed above seems to be an exception, not the norm according to my personal experience.

I've ripped somewhere between 100-150, and yes it is an exception. It's quite an annoying exception, especially since I typically don't know whether or not it's a lionsgate film before ripping. I know it's right on the box, but I rarely see this. There are several listed, I found similar experiences before. Maybe it is strictly lionsgate, but when it happens to you then it will be clear that knowing the exact run time and chapter count can leave you scratching your head.


In the past, I found relief by the method I previously posted. More often than not, some lost soul has asked in the makemkv forums and fortunately someone usually said it's 000###.mlps with segment count of ###,###,### etc.
 
#39 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23424752



I have ripped couple dozen BD discs. Most of them have fake play lists (yes, Lion's gate seems favor this method). None have identical runtime and chapter count as real playlist so far. So, Warrior disc pointed above seems to be an exception, not the norm according to my personal experience.

A couple dozen? You do realize that there are thousands of blu-ray discs available, right?


No one said that the ones with identical looking playlists are "the norm". In fact, I specifically said it only occurs on a relatively small number of discs.
 
#40 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th-horseman  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23425054


In the past, I found relief by the method I previously posted. More often than not, some lost soul has asked in the makemkv forums and fortunately someone usually said it's 000###.mlps with segment count of ###,###,### etc.

Right. googling or checking the forums is the best way (if AnyDVD cannot tell you). If it has been at least a week since the disc was released, chances are excellent that you will find something in either the AVS forum BDInfo thread, makemkv forums, or slysoft forums.
 
#41 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23424752



I have ripped couple dozen BD discs. Most of them have fake play lists (yes, Lion's gate seems favor this method). None have identical runtime and chapter count as real playlist so far. So, Warrior disc pointed above seems to be an exception, not the norm according to my personal experience.

Either way for the majority of MakeMKV users, buying third party software like TMT/PowerDVD for $50+ just to find the correct runtime/chapters or using software like DVDFab/AnyDVD to reveal the playlist is not a viable solution, and even then it may not work 100% of the time.


If this protection becomes more common, MakeMKV will need to handle these discs better in a future update - we know its possible if DVDFab/AnyDVD can do it.


Until then searching Google or as suggested looking at MakeMKV/DVDFab/Slysoft forums is probably the best bet if you don't have any of the other software.
 
#43 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23426823


Either way for the majority of MakeMKV users, buying third party software like TMT/PowerDVD for $50+ just to find the correct runtime/chapters or using software like DVDFab/AnyDVD to reveal the playlist is not a viable solution, and even then it may not work 100% of the time.

I'm not saying they need to buy new software. First of all, almost all BD drive packages come with a free version of BD playback software. My BD burner came with Power DVD. My laptop came with WinDVD. Secondly, a standalone BD player (they are dirt cheap and much easier to operate than software) can tell you the same information.
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23425078


A couple dozen? You do realize that there are thousands of blu-ray discs available, right?

You do realize that there is something called statistics, don't you?
Quote:
No one said that the ones with identical looking playlists are "the norm". In fact, I specifically said it only occurs on a relatively small number of discs.

I simply stated that my method works for me so far without the need to google around. It's worth a try unless you encounter those special discs which I have not yet encountered. Your posts made it sounds like all those with fake playlists have identical runtime and chapter counts. Well the fact is most of them don't. How hard is it for you to understand?
 
#45 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 

Typically there will be only one playlist that matches the exact film time. Use the chapter count to quickly weed out the wrong one. It is not that hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 

I saw some discs have more than a dozen fake playlists but the correct ones are very easy to spot. you are welcome to show me one example you claim existed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 

So, it is easy to tell which playlist is real, which are fake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23426955


I simply stated that my method works for me so far without the need to google around.

You stated more than that (see above quotes). Your "method" is no method at all. Everyone who rips discs already knows that if the disc is not protected with playlist obfuscation, then it is easy to choose the correct playlist. So stating that is not helpful. It is also not helpful to tell people that it is easy to tell which one is fake on protected discs, when there are a few discs where it is not easy at all. It does not matter if most discs are easy -- when someone needs to rip a disc that is not easy, they will need to know how to do it.
 
#46 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23426912


I'm not saying they need to buy new software. First of all, almost all BD drive packages come with a free version of BD playback software. My BD burner came with Power DVD. My laptop came with WinDVD. Secondly, a standalone BD player (they are dirt cheap and much easier to operate than software) can tell you the same information.

Again they are all steps that should not be necessary, why do I need PowerDVD/Standalone player to do what MakeMKV should be doing itself?

For me the whole point of MakeMKV is so you don't need to use PowerDVD, AnyDVD or a standalone player.


As far as I'm concerned MakeMKV can't handle these discs correctly without help, it should handle these discs better, hopefully it will soon.

No need for me to discuss it any further.


Also I think you will find 'almost all' BD drives do not come with software (4/4 that I've brought didn't) and even if they all did, knowing the runtime/chapters doesn't always work anyway, so it comes back to MakeMKV fixing these discs eventually, which I'm sure will happen.
 
#47 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23427039


As far as I'm concerned MakeMKV can't handle these discs correctly without help, it should handle these discs better, hopefully it will soon.

It sounds like the MakeMKV developer ("Mike") is working on it. He writes:

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6554#p27573
Quote:
This madness certainly will be dealt with.
 
#48 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23427039


Again they are all steps that should not be necessary, why do I need PowerDVD/Standalone player to do what MakeMKV should be doing itself?

For me the whole point of MakeMKV is so you don't need to use PowerDVD, AnyDVD or a standalone player.


As far as I'm concerned MakeMKV can't handle these discs correctly without help, it should handle these discs better, hopefully it will soon.

No need for me to discuss it any further.

I agree with you on MakeMKV issues but until they fix it, you can have different work arounds.
Quote:
Also I think you will find 'almost all' BD drives do not come with software (4/4 that I've brought didn't) and even if they all did, knowing the runtime/chapters doesn't always work anyway, so it comes back to MakeMKV fixing these discs eventually, which I'm sure will happen.
Unless you purchased those as OEM bare drives. Even that, in my local Microcenter stores, they put bulk software discs along with the bulk drives. You just need to know that you need pick up the software discs:) These OEM software are keyed to the specific drive model. So they really don't care.


If a BD drive comes with a pre-build PC, the vendor typically will load a version of BD software as well.
 
#49 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...l-which-one-is-the-valid-one/30#post_23426995





You stated more than that (see above quotes). Your "method" is no method at all. Everyone who rips discs already knows that if the disc is not protected with playlist obfuscation, then it is easy to choose the correct playlist. So stating that is not helpful. It is also not helpful to tell people that it is easy to tell which one is fake on protected discs, when there are a few discs where it is not easy at all. It does not matter if most discs are easy -- when someone needs to rip a disc that is not easy, they will need to know how to do it.

Please read my first post in this thread. Quoting me out of context won't help you.
 
#51 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571  /t/1476817/why-does-blurays-have-mu...tell-which-one-is-the-valid-one#post_23422108


Animated movies like Pixar movies are the worst culprits. The problem isn't always fake playlists, but often different "angles". Often what this entails is slight changes to the text in a movie (like the words on a newspaper) based on which language you choose (see here ). You may see multiple playlists with the exact same length, same chapters, and same audio selections. It can be pretty frustrating. IIRC, I had issues with Finding Nemo and Bolt.
In my experience it's always 800.mpls for English with pixar titles.


Some companies are doing this maliciously though, but so far AnyDVD has not steered me wrong - and JRiver reads the AnyDVD info and uses that for playback.
 
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