Why does blurays have multiple playlists of the same file? How to tell which one is the valid one? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Hunger games for example. Not sure which one to choose in MakeMKV for ripping. Is there any easy way to find out the valid playlist?
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post #2 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Hunger games for example. Not sure which one to choose in MakeMKV for ripping. Is there any easy way to find out the valid playlist?

Usually MakeMKV finds the right file by itself, that's when I used to free preview anyways. It usually is the biggest file with 1:30min or 2hrs. (Change the view) tab.

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post #3 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 11:20 AM
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You can improve isolation by increasing the Minimum title length (seconds) to something high. I use 1800.

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post #4 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 11:35 AM
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Why does blurays have multiple playlists of the same file?

Probably to keep someone from ripping it.
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How to tell which one is the valid one?

https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&q=hunger+games+correct+playlist&oq=hunger+games+correct+playlist
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post #5 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:06 PM
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post #6 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea I know that the largest file size is the movie. There are sometimes discs that contain multiple playlists of the main movie. This is where it gets confusing.
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This looks like a nice resource. Thanks.
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post #7 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:16 PM
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Nice find. I did not know this existed.

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post #8 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:18 PM
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I use BDInfo to find the play list. If their is more then one long play list I play the movie to find the exact length and then their is only one play list that matches the same length.


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post #9 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:24 PM
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If you already played the movie why bother with the rip?

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post #10 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I did a little bit of reading reading about this online. It's a type of copy protection called Screen Pass, where they put a number of fake playlist to discourage ripping. AnyDVD HD can supposedly bypass this and find the proper version of the movie.
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

If you already played the movie why bother with the rip?

Because I like having the proper version in my server smile.gif
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post #11 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:39 PM
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I barely have the time to watch a movie once.Very few are keepers these days.

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post #12 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

If you already played the movie why bother with the rip?

They probably weren't playing the entire movie. It's a common trick to play the main title for a few seconds in order to pause and determine the main title's run time (all the way to seconds)

Yes, Hunger Games, Star Wars, John Carter, and plenty other discs have *tons* of possible looking main titles. In my experience, some have 2-3 (out of the 20+) with the same run time as the real main title's run time. Usually, best method is a google search. Just use "Movie Name which title makemkv" and look within their forums. Not many movies have such problems
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post #13 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 4th-horseman View Post

In my experience, some have 2-3 (out of the 20+) with the same run time as the real main title's run time.

Yes, several discs have multiple titles with the exact same runtime (and same number of chapters). But sometimes you can look at the times of several chapter marks and distinguish them that way.

Also, AnyDVD can usually tell you which title number is the correct one (in its info window after it has scanned the disc). However, even AnyDVD failed to find the correct one for me on one recent disc (The Last Stand).

I agree that the best way (as long as it has been a few days after the disc has been released) is to look in the forums or google for the right playlist number.
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post #14 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 03:57 PM
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Scanning the disc with AnyDVD HD and checking the status window is the the only easy way to tell at the moment, without searching online or checking each playlist.
BDinfo or the list on the link posted will not be correct with these Screenpass discs, there are multiple playlists with the correct length (some out of order) and the longest playlist will not be correct either.
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post #15 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe DVDFab can also bypass Screen Pass.
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post #16 of 57 Old 06-11-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

I believe DVDFab can also bypass Screen Pass.

AnyDVD/DVDFab seem to have similar features so I believe it probably does. Hopefully MakeMKV can add this feature soon smile.gif
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post #17 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 05:09 AM
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They're probably all valid playlists. I usually just pick the first large file with chapters. The additional large files are probably slightly different versions of the same movie with deleted scenes added in or slightly different takes of the same scenes. Since I usually haven't seen any of the Blu-Rays I'm ripping I won't know the difference. So far, picking the first file has worked out for me. I generally perform a spot check to make sure I haven't selected the wrong soundtrack or subtitles and rerip, if necessary. I can't recall the last time I've had to rerip a title so my system seems to be working out pretty well.
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post #18 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 05:24 AM
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No, on the discs with this kind of protection, they are NOT all valid playlists. That is the point. Some of the invalid playlists have repeated scenes, missing scenes, a text warning inserted, out of order scenes, etc.
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post #19 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 05:42 AM
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Yes, I can confirm just picking the first large file or track in MakeMKV will not work with Screenpass protected titles, the scenes will be completely out of order and unwatchable.
Its nothing to do with how a system is setup, MakeMKV has no idea which playlist is correct, maybe in future updates it will handle these discs correctly.
For now you have to either use another program (AnyDVD/DVDFab), search online or check each correct length playlist to determine which is correct.
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post #20 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987 View Post

Yes, I can confirm just picking the first large file or track in MakeMKV will not work with Screenpass protected titles, the scenes will be completely out of order and unwatchable.
Its nothing to do with how a system is setup, MakeMKV has no idea which playlist is correct, maybe in future updates it will handle these discs correctly.
For now you have to either use another program (AnyDVD/DVDFab), search online or check each correct length playlist to determine which is correct.
This just rang a bell with me. I had ripped a movie a while back and I recall that for some strange reason I decided to rip one of the other large files further down the list instead of the first one as was my usual practice. When I played it back it repeated portions of the movie or jumped ahead and then back and was basically all over the map. I re-ripped it, but this time I chose the first large file and playback was fine after that.
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post #21 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 05:24 PM
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Here is what I do with MakeMKV: I first play the movie in regular BD playback software and write down the exact length of the film and chapter counts. Then going through the playlist to find the one that match the exact film length. Typically there will be only one playlist that matches the exact film time. Use the chapter count to quickly weed out the wrong one. It is not that hard.
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post #22 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Here is what I do with MakeMKV: I first play the movie in regular BD playback software and write down the exact length of the film and chapter counts. Then going through the playlist to find the one that match the exact film length. Typically there will be only one playlist that matches the exact film time. Use the chapter count to quickly weed out the wrong one. It is not that hard.

Again, you are missing the point. Some discs (currently, a relatively small number) are protected with playlist obfuscation techniques, and there will be multiple titles with the exact same times and chapters. Some will be "fakes" that will not play the movie correctly. You cannot tell which is which just by time and chapters.

I'm not sure why some people in this thread are having such a hard time understanding this.
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post #23 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

Again, you are missing the point. Some discs (currently, a relatively small number) are protected with playlist obfuscation techniques, and there will be multiple titles with the exact same times and chapters. Some will be "fakes" that will not play the movie correctly. You cannot tell which is which just by time and chapters.

I'm not sure why some people in this thread are having such a hard time understanding this.

Not only that, but some movies will have a different correct playlist depending on the version of the disc. For example, the retail and rental versions will have a different correct playlist.

Like others have noted and I tried to point out with the google search, I search for the title on MakeMKV's or AnyDVD's forum for what others have found as the correct playlist. I've found this to be very reliable. Also, as others have noted, AnyDVD HD will tell in the status window. But, sometimes it lists multiple good playlists.

Examples of titles using Screenpass are:
Expendables
Expendables 2
The Hunger Games
Source Code
Twilight Breaking Dawn
Three Musketeers

Seems to be popular on Lionsgate titles.

Also, some Disney movies like Tangled and Brave have multiple playlists for different languages. For these, I've found the first one listed in MakeMKV is correct for English.

I've also viewed the individual segments to determine differences.
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post #24 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

Again, you are missing the point. Some discs (currently, a relatively small number) are protected with playlist obfuscation techniques, and there will be multiple titles with the exact same times and chapters. Some will be "fakes" that will not play the movie correctly. You cannot tell which is which just by time and chapters.

I'm not sure why some people in this thread are having such a hard time understanding this.
among all the discs I ripped, I have yet see one that has more than one playlist of the exact same time length and chapters, yes, I saw some discs have more than a dozen fake playlists but the correct ones are very easy to spot. you are welcome to show me one example you claim existed.
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post #25 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

among all the discs I ripped, I have yet see one that has more than one playlist of the exact same time length and chapters, yes, I saw some discs have more than a dozen fake playlists but the correct ones are very easy to spot. you are welcome to show me one example you claim existed.

Animated movies like Pixar movies are the worst culprits. The problem isn't always fake playlists, but often different "angles". Often what this entails is slight changes to the text in a movie (like the words on a newspaper) based on which language you choose (see here). You may see multiple playlists with the exact same length, same chapters, and same audio selections. It can be pretty frustrating. IIRC, I had issues with Finding Nemo and Bolt.
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post #26 of 57 Old 06-12-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

Animated movies like Pixar movies are the worst culprits. The problem isn't always fake playlists, but often different "angles".

That is certainly not the "worst culprits", since the movie is fine even if you choose the "wrong" playlist, you just have some parts with different language text or credits.

The worst culprits are the ones with playlist obfuscation protection -- if you choose the wrong playlist, the movie is unwatchable. I already gave one example, and I see someone else listed several.
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post #27 of 57 Old 06-13-2013, 12:29 AM
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Here's a quick screenshot from 'Warrior'
There are lots of fake playlists (So many they you can't see on one screenshot) and 5 with the same length as the movie, 789/790 are the only 2 correct.
As you can see MakeMKV doesn't have a clue what is correct and knowing the exact movie length from TMT still won't help.
AnyDVD HD tells me to use 789/790 which are correct.




Hopefully this can help people understand what Screenpass protection is and why its a pain.
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post #28 of 57 Old 06-13-2013, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acejh1987 View Post

Here's a quick screenshot from 'Warrior'
There are lots of fake playlists (So many they you can't see on one screenshot) and 5 with the same length as the movie, 789/790 are the only 2 correct.
As you can see MakeMKV doesn't have a clue what is correct and knowing the exact movie length from TMT still won't help.
AnyDVD HD tells me to use 789/790 which are correct.




Hopefully this can help people understand what Screenpass protection is and why its a pain.

Yes, we knew MakeMKV doesn't have a way to tell you which playlist is the correct one. And we knew many BD movies have a lot of fake playlists to throw you off. Everyone other than OP (and a few others) already knew this.

From the two screen shots you posted, I can see, first screen shows a playlist of duration of 2.19.44 and the second is 2.19.54. There is no way to tell from the screen shots what durations of other playlists are. But my experience tell me, there is no fake playlist that will match the actual movie playtime and chapter counts (MakeMKV chapter counts are off by one compared to actual chapter count). So, it is easy to tell which playlist is real, which are fake.
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post #29 of 57 Old 06-13-2013, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Yes, we knew MakeMKV doesn't have a way to tell you which playlist is the correct one. And we knew many BD movies have a lot of fake playlists to throw you off. Everyone other than OP (and a few others) already knew this.

From the two screen shots you posted, I can see, first screen shows a playlist of duration of 2.19.44 and the second is 2.19.54. There is no way to tell from the screen shots what durations of other playlists are. But my experience tell me, there is no fake playlist that will match the actual movie playtime and chapter counts (MakeMKV chapter counts are off by one compared to actual chapter count). So, it is easy to tell which playlist is real, which are fake.

Like I said there are multiple playlists with the exact runtime and exact chapter count as the correct playlist, but those playlists are made up of different stream files and will be out of order when played back.
So like I said the theory or your experience of correct runtime/chapters is not correct, so it is not just that easy.

Some screenshots of some incorrect playlists with the same runtime/chapter (2:19:54/ 16 Chapters) - compare them to my second screenshot in my last post which is the correct playlist (789) there is no difference other than the segment map.




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post #30 of 57 Old 06-13-2013, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by acejh1987 View Post

Like I said there are multiple playlists with the exact runtime and exact chapter count as the correct playlist, but those playlists are made up of different stream files and will be out of order when played back.

Right. It is amazing that some people in this thread cannot understand this simple (and annoying) issue.
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