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post #1 of 38 Old 06-12-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello! i've been going back and forth with a few different options a few different times. I currently have a poweredge 1950 gen3 (2 sata drives both in raid0 using zfs mirror) and I was going to add a storage array (maybe an MD1000??) to pool the drives for media , BUT.....after thinking more about that I realized I might be able to come up with something better with less power and make less noise with less space....so I came here!! smile.gif

Now, I'm leaning towards either building something or buying an existing server that has slots for sata disks (the 1950 only has 2 slots). Ideally, I would just like to buy a server that supports solaris 11 and throw disks into a zfs pool.

My requirements are:

- solaris 11 zfs (not freebsd)
- sata drives
- at least space for 8-10tb (1/2tb drives)
- under $500
- redundancy is preferable
- i dont care if it's a tower or a rack mountable server, although I do want something that's easy to put in/remove hard drives (hot swappable would be nice but not necessary)

So I don't mind building something but honestly I don't feel like messing with it and digging around to figure out what is/is not supported by solaris etc etc...

Can anyone recommend a good server I can buy that already fits the bill? Or if I build one, does anyone know what I should get/order for this project?

I can get an MD1000 for pretty cheap on ebay and I already have my poweredge 1950 setup the way I want it, so if this is a competitive option that I'll just go that route... Thoughts?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 38 Old 06-12-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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fyi the MD1000 array on ebay going for a good price is ending in like 40min hahaha... so if thats a good option i need to act on it

or what other arrays, i'm not stuck on md1000
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post #3 of 38 Old 06-12-2013, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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bbbbuuuummmmppppppp! fyi, i missed out on the md1000 array it sold for $200 with no drive caddies .... but I can get aother one complete for $400.

Anybody out there?biggrin.gif
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post #4 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 06:09 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412640/are-you-looking-for-a-less-expensive-norco-4220-4224-alternative/0_100

I don't know if one of the units available from here supports Solaris, but this is your best bang for you buck hands down. You can ask one of the many gurus on that thread if they know whether or not it will support solaris.
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post #5 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 06:23 AM
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I think we are all confused.

Do you need a machine without drives?

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post #6 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 06:25 AM
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You say Solaris zfs ( more enterprise level serious) so there is not many here that know what your talking about.

If your just looking for hardware you can run that on then I can probably help.

If you want a complete system .. Your budget is a little low including HDDs.

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post #7 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 09:45 AM
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Solaris + an MD1000 does not fit into a home theater setup scenario...

The majority of us here use things like Lian-Li cases or Antec 300 and use freenas, FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, FlexRAID, UnRAID... etc...

There are fine experts here, no doubt, but many will not see the sense on what this request is about...
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post #8 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 10:28 AM
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the supermicro x9scm and x9scl boards are really great for solaris, especially if you get one with IPMI support (no connected monitor, keyboard, or mouse required, even for BIOS access)

I am running solaris 11 in an old p182 case with a 4 in 3 adapter for the optical drive slots. the rest of the setup:

x9scl+-F
intel i3 2120t (35W TDP, ECC support)
8gb ECC ram
rosewill capstone 550 80 plus gold power supply
WD Red 3 tb x 4
WD Green 1 tb x 4 (with TLER support)
old samsung 32gb SLC SSD for OS
IBM m1015 flashed to IT firmware for JBOD

I have 8 HDD in there right now, but could add 2 more if I wanted - just pick a case with as many slots as you need. for example, the fractal design r4 has 8 slots I believe and is great to work with (quiet).

How much storage do you really need? How much power usage and heat can you tolerate? The old servers can really suck up electricity.

If you want to option to be able to multipurpose your server with ESXi, then you need a xeon chip to support both ECC and Vt-d, but that adds significant cost over something like the i3-2120t.

You can budget $500 for the server itself, but HDDs are going to cost way more.
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post #9 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 01:11 PM
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ServeTheHome and HardForum are great resources for this kind of thing. As has been stated, there aren't a ton of people on here who use ZFS. If you're noise/power sensitive, you will need to build yourself rather than using 2-generation old hardware that's dirt cheap on eBay. You can get the noise of that stuff down to tolerable levels, but the power consumption will still be high.

If you're just looking for an external array, grab a SAS card (assuming you don't already have a PERC card in there) and pick up a cheap 16-bay expansion chassis.

Details here.
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post #10 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the confusion here guys..... the $500 was just server cost, however I'm now leaning to just throw an array onto this 1950 for 2 reasons

1) it's already all setup and downloading biggrin.gif
2) i don't think I'm going to save THAT much money rebuilding and starting over (except maybe in electric cost)

If it gets to the point that I'm spending way to much in electric, I'll start over.
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post #11 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

ServeTheHome and HardForum are great resources for this kind of thing. As has been stated, there aren't a ton of people on here who use ZFS. If you're noise/power sensitive, you will need to build yourself rather than using 2-generation old hardware that's dirt cheap on eBay. You can get the noise of that stuff down to tolerable levels, but the power consumption will still be high.

If you're just looking for an external array, grab a SAS card (assuming you don't already have a PERC card in there) and pick up a cheap 16-bay expansion chassis.

Details here.

Just what I was looking for! biggrin.gif Awesome links man!!!

See what I ultimately want to do is have each internal drive on a seperate controller. The way the PERC 5/i works is you CANNOT disable raid. I'm using ZFS mirroring from drive A -> drive B. The way I get around the raid being on is put EACH drive in its OWN raid 0. That's the only way to get standalone drives that the OS will see independently. SO, with that being said....... I want to purchase a compatible SAS card (not sure which kind yet) so I can connect drive A -> PERC 5/i, drive B -> PCI-e SAS card so they are completely independant of each other.

BUT ..........

The thing is, I'm not exactly sure what I need to attach an array onto this thing? If I wanted to use the md1000 (which I can get for about $350 local without drives), I think I would need to connect with an external SAS cable and throw in a SAS card that has the compatible external port into pci-e slot for connecting raid to?? Is that correct?

I do like the array you linked me to as well, it would be about $100-150 cheaper than I can get the md1000 for. BUT the good thing about md1000 is a) it is worth more and I could easily resell and make my money back, b) it has redundant PS

On the array you linked me (the SGI) how does it connect to server? The same way I would need a SAS card?

The other important thing is I don't want to raid the array. I want to pool the drives in ZFS for 1 big media drive/filesystem.

I guess my main questions at this point are:

1.) What kind of pci-e card(s) do I need to make an md1000 work AND ALSO allow me to connect 1 of my internal sata drives to separate from the internal PERC 5/i card? (hope that isn't confusing...)

2.) What kind of pci-e card(s) do I need to make an SGI array: http://www.servethehome.com/sgi-rackable-3u-16-bay-se3016-sas-expander-chassis-forum-deal/ work AND ALSO allow me to connect 1 internal sata drive separate from the internal PERC 5/i card?

3.) Which array would you buy being able to get the SGI for $175, or an md1000 with redundant PS for $350? (drives extra of course)
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post #12 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balky View Post

Solaris + an MD1000 does not fit into a home theater setup scenario...

The majority of us here use things like Lian-Li cases or Antec 300 and use freenas, FreeBSD, ZFS on Linux, FlexRAID, UnRAID... etc...

There are fine experts here, no doubt, but many will not see the sense on what this request is about...

I disagree my friend!! biggrin.gif Solaris 11 + zfs = BADA$$!!! biggrin.gif You can turn on timeslider for backups and go back any point in time for file recovery or auditing. Mirroring and adding or changing space is complete bliss (simple). I can encrypt filesystems for security. I'm loving it so far...

Although I do agree there are probably easier setups in linux / windows. But I wanted to play more with solaris 11 and zfs (haven't used much till now) and I like being able to recover/audit/maintain my system the way zfs allows me to.
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post #13 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimyself View Post

Just what I was looking for! biggrin.gif Awesome links man!!!

See what I ultimately want to do is have each internal drive on a seperate controller. The way the PERC 5/i works is you CANNOT disable raid. I'm using ZFS mirroring from drive A -> drive B. The way I get around the raid being on is put EACH drive in its OWN raid 0. That's the only way to get standalone drives that the OS will see independently. SO, with that being said....... I want to purchase a compatible SAS card (not sure which kind yet) so I can connect drive A -> PERC 5/i, drive B -> PCI-e SAS card so they are completely independant of each other.

BUT ..........

The thing is, I'm not exactly sure what I need to attach an array onto this thing? If I wanted to use the md1000 (which I can get for about $350 local without drives), I think I would need to connect with an external SAS cable and throw in a SAS card that has the compatible external port into pci-e slot for connecting raid to?? Is that correct?

I do like the array you linked me to as well, it would be about $100-150 cheaper than I can get the md1000 for. BUT the good thing about md1000 is a) it is worth more and I could easily resell and make my money back, b) it has redundant PS

On the array you linked me (the SGI) how does it connect to server? The same way I would need a SAS card?

The other important thing is I don't want to raid the array. I want to pool the drives in ZFS for 1 big media drive/filesystem.

I guess my main questions at this point are:

1.) What kind of pci-e card(s) do I need to make an md1000 work AND ALSO allow me to connect 1 of my internal sata drives to separate from the internal PERC 5/i card? (hope that isn't confusing...)

2.) What kind of pci-e card(s) do I need to make an SGI array: http://www.servethehome.com/sgi-rackable-3u-16-bay-se3016-sas-expander-chassis-forum-deal/ work AND ALSO allow me to connect 1 internal sata drive separate from the internal PERC 5/i card?

3.) Which array would you buy being able to get the SGI for $175, or an md1000 with redundant PS for $350? (drives extra of course)

I've got an IBM M1015 (internal SAS only) that I was able to flash the IT firmware to. The IT firmware allows it to act as just an HBA rather than a RAID controller, and just pass all the drives directly through to the OS. The PERC cards are a bit tricky - they're pretty much all just rebadged LSI MegaRaid controllers (actually, nearly every raid controller used in enterprise-class hardware is LSI these days, including the M1015). Unfortunately it's hit and miss on which ones you can flash the firmware on, however. There's a list on ServeTheHome somewhere with all the various OEM versions of the LSI cards, including ones with external SAS ports. Then you'd just run a cable from that external SAS port to the port on the expander chassis, and it would pass all of those drives through to the OS (again, with IT firmware flashed).

The MD1000, I believe, uses 2.5" drives, whereas the SGI one uses 3.5" drives. While 2.5" are great for spindle speed, they're way more expensive per GB, and if you just want mass storage, 3.5" is the way to go. Also, redundant power supplies are often loud and hot, not to mention energy drains. A good UPS is a better investment for the extra $150-$200 (I've lost way too many drives due to abrupt power loss or flickers - thanks, Oklahoma weather!)
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post #14 of 38 Old 06-13-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

I've got an IBM M1015 (internal SAS only) that I was able to flash the IT firmware to. The IT firmware allows it to act as just an HBA rather than a RAID controller, and just pass all the drives directly through to the OS. The PERC cards are a bit tricky - they're pretty much all just rebadged LSI MegaRaid controllers (actually, nearly every raid controller used in enterprise-class hardware is LSI these days, including the M1015). Unfortunately it's hit and miss on which ones you can flash the firmware on, however. There's a list on ServeTheHome somewhere with all the various OEM versions of the LSI cards, including ones with external SAS ports. Then you'd just run a cable from that external SAS port to the port on the expander chassis, and it would pass all of those drives through to the OS (again, with IT firmware flashed).

The MD1000, I believe, uses 2.5" drives, whereas the SGI one uses 3.5" drives. While 2.5" are great for spindle speed, they're way more expensive per GB, and if you just want mass storage, 3.5" is the way to go. Also, redundant power supplies are often loud and hot, not to mention energy drains. A good UPS is a better investment for the extra $150-$200 (I've lost way too many drives due to abrupt power loss or flickers - thanks, Oklahoma weather!)

Well i'm still deciding between the 2. The md1000 does use 3.5 and not 2.5 fyi...

I did find the following info/cards that I *THINK* would work with the md1000. But they probably wouldn't work with the SGI....

http://serverfault.com/questions/189823/jbod-sas-adapter-for-solaris-nexenta-on-dell-poweredge-2950

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LSI-Logic-SAS3801E-SAS-Controller-Card-L3-01123-04E-/290892079439?pt=US_Internal_Network_Cards&hash=item43ba84e14f

http://www.lsi.com/channel/products/storagecomponents/Pages/LSISAS3801E.aspx

Dell's SAS 6/ir 'budget raid' adapters do JBOD unless the drive is in a RAID array. The cards work relatively well from my experience although I cannot attest to whether they work with Nexenta or Solaris.

The question still remains how I can move 1 of the internal disks to a different card (not on the PERC 5/i)? Maybe I would have to get a different card (1 card to handle the array, and 1 card to handle 1 internal drive), is that right?

Thanks alot for your help, sorry for all the questions!! Just trying to piece this thing together biggrin.gif
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post #15 of 38 Old 06-14-2013, 02:36 AM
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I disagree my friend!! biggrin.gif Solaris 11 + zfs = BADA$$!!! biggrin.gif You can turn on timeslider for backups and go back any point in time for file recovery or auditing. Mirroring and adding or changing space is complete bliss (simple). I can encrypt filesystems for security. I'm loving it so far...

Although I do agree there are probably easier setups in linux / windows. But I wanted to play more with solaris 11 and zfs (haven't used much till now) and I like being able to recover/audit/maintain my system the way zfs allows me to.

No doubt ZFS in itself = BADA$$... but wait until you see memory requirements for dedup, compression...etc...etc for all the beautiful things you can get out of ZFS...

If this is all about storing and sharing media for home use I will admit becoming a bit jealous... tongue.gif

I currently run ZFS on CentOS, but turned off most of the extras just to keep investment on hardware in a sane range...
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post #16 of 38 Old 06-14-2013, 05:09 AM
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What

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post #17 of 38 Old 06-14-2013, 05:46 AM
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What

If I understand you correctly... I wouldn't recommend comparing ZFS to FlexRAID... biggrin.gif

The only issue is that ZFS loves memory a lot, and you need good quality hardware as in mobo with 2 CPU slots and fast CPUs to be able to take it to its full potentials.

If you will be hosuing like 3TB x12 drives for example in raidz3 with 32G of RAM, with a dedicated SSD cache, you almost won't need to worry about an external backup when you enable all of ZFS's nice features...

Using this to share media in a home network is quite an overkill (at least for me)
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post #18 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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So I decided to start over with all new system....

I bought the define r4 case and a 500w corsair PS. Can anyone recommend a good motherboard/processor that has alot of memory/sata expansion? How about the one recommended above supermicro x9scm and x9scl? What about a cheaper board/cpu. The main thing it has LOTS of memory capability and low power would be nice. I will want at least 4-5 3tb drives possibly more and probably an ssd. Also what about sata ports I see those supermicro boards only have 4 sata ports, are you adding an expansion card for extra sata?

Which boards/cpus work well together with memory/sata expansion and low power? I'd rather spend less money, BUT that being said if a supermicro type server board really is the best for remote access, reliability, zfs, solaris etc.... then I'll go with that! Suggestions?? thanks again!!
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post #19 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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How about something like this? This looks like a good board, lots of sata ports, supports 32gb memory reviews are good... what do you guys think? also, which cpu would you put on it?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182251
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How about something like this? This looks like a good board, lots of sata ports, supports 32gb memory reviews are good... what do you guys think? also, which cpu would you put on it?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182251

That's a pretty good board - I have the 4-PCIe slot version of it (X9SCM-F-O). I'd go with an E3-1230 v3 (I have the v2) for the processor, as it's very efficient and gives you 4 cores plus HT. Make sure you get Unbuffered ECC memory that is on the compatibility list.
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post #21 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 03:00 PM
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That's a pretty good board - I have the 4-PCIe slot version of it (X9SCM-F-O). I'd go with an E3-1230 v3 (I have the v2) for the processor, as it's very efficient and gives you 4 cores plus HT. Make sure you get Unbuffered ECC memory that is on the compatibility list.

E3-1230 v3 is a socket 1150 chip

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post #22 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 03:06 PM
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How about something like this? This looks like a good board, lots of sata ports, supports 32gb memory reviews are good... what do you guys think? also, which cpu would you put on it?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182251

You said you might want a SSD. This board has the C202 chipset, it has no SATA 3. Go with the C204 chipset

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post #23 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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So which board out of these would be best? Also, which cpu's should I combine with the board

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182254

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182253

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-IIF Micro ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1155 Intel C204 PCH chipset DDR3 1600/1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182773

Also, what about the newer haswell xeon boards?? I'm not really in a rush, should I wait for newer boards?

http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-intel-xeon-e31200-v3-haswell-server-motherboard-lineup/
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post #24 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 07:03 PM
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E3-1230 v3 is a socket 1150 chip

*facepalm* No idea what I was thinking there. That said, the v2 would still work great.
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post #25 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 07:26 PM
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*facepalm* No idea what I was thinking there. That said, the v2 would still work great.

And on sale today
http://www.superbiiz.com/query.php?s=E3-1230+V2

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post #26 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 07:34 PM
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So which board out of these would be best? Also, which cpu's should I combine with the board

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182254

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182253

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-IIF Micro ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1155 Intel C204 PCH chipset DDR3 1600/1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182773

Also, what about the newer haswell xeon boards?? I'm not really in a rush, should I wait for newer boards?

http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-intel-xeon-e31200-v3-haswell-server-motherboard-lineup/

I went with the X9SCM-IIF. Newer board with dual 82574L nics, 2 - Sata3 ports and IPMI

I guess i should tell you that I don't know anything about Solaris 11

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post #27 of 38 Old 06-23-2013, 09:39 PM
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I disagree my friend!! biggrin.gif Solaris 11 + zfs = BADA$$!!! biggrin.gif You can turn on timeslider for backups and go back any point in time for file recovery or auditing.

I'm sure you understand the distinction, but making this statement is a bit misleading. Unless you're using zfs-send to move the snapshots off the system, timeslider is just a local snapshot not a backup. ZFS can have catastrophic failures like any other file system where you won't have these snapshot available for recovery.

Looky here!
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post #28 of 38 Old 06-24-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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is this the same processor that's linked above ( http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=XE1230V2BX )?? That will work on the MBD-X9SCM-IIF

http://www.microcenter.com/product/400271/Xeon_E3_1230V2_33GHz_LGA_1155_Boxed_Processor - I'd rather buy this one if it's the same CPU since price is lower and it's local i can go pick it up.
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post #29 of 38 Old 06-24-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dimyself View Post

is this the same processor that's linked above ( http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=XE1230V2BX )?? That will work on the MBD-X9SCM-IIF

http://www.microcenter.com/product/400271/Xeon_E3_1230V2_33GHz_LGA_1155_Boxed_Processor - I'd rather buy this one if it's the same CPU since price is lower and it's local i can go pick it up.

Those are indeed the same.
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post #30 of 38 Old 06-24-2013, 12:18 PM
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I wish I had a Micrcenter near me!!!

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