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post #1 of 56 Old 06-14-2013, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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can a single box be used for multi-purpose ? would like whs 2011 for local backup/imaging of 3 desktops and a laptop, all have win 7/8, and win 8 media center for recording and playback of non protected ota content all in one box, from what ive read here this could be accomplished with virtualization, can it be done and be stable, pain free ?, not really looking to dual boot.

ive been slowly picking up parts for a home server, what ive have so far.

Asus P8B WS 1155 intel 206 mobo
G860 Sb proc, will use E12XX v2 with HT latter
Lsi 9220-8i Megaraid card flashed to 1911 it
2-Mini Highpoint sas cables
2-WD Red 2 tb sata hd's
2-Wd Black 1 tb sata hd's
2 Wd Blue 500 gb sata hd's
8 gb Crucial ballistix 1600
Sapphire HD 5670 pci-e 2.0 X16
Pci-E X1 TV tunner
50" Panasonic Plasma for viewing, rdp for maintenance and scheduling recordings

thoughts ?
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post #2 of 56 Old 06-14-2013, 10:26 PM
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Is it possible? Yes.

Virtualization will allow you to do exactly what you want. Pass through the video card to a Win7/8 VM and there you go... virtualized HTPC.
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post #3 of 56 Old 06-15-2013, 03:20 AM
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You can run WHS2011 VM (VirtualBox or Client Hyper-V for Win8) on Win8 (with your Pentium G860).
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post #4 of 56 Old 06-15-2013, 07:36 AM
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What is the benefit of doing this ?

(I need to learn more about this, I have a WHS2011/G860 machine)

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #5 of 56 Old 06-15-2013, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

What is the benefit of doing this ?

(I need to learn more about this, I have a WHS2011/G860 machine)

The benefit of doing what? Virtualization in general or a specific scenario?
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post #6 of 56 Old 06-16-2013, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac25 View Post

can a single box be used for multi-purpose ? would like whs 2011 for local backup/imaging of 3 desktops and a laptop, all have win 7/8, and win 8 media center for recording and playback of non protected ota content all in one box, from what ive read here this could be accomplished with virtualization, can it be done and be stable, pain free ?, not really looking to dual boot.

ive been slowly picking up parts for a home server, what ive have so far.

Asus P8B WS 1155 intel 206 mobo
G860 Sb proc, will use E12XX v2 with HT latter
Lsi 9220-8i Megaraid card flashed to 1911 it
2-Mini Highpoint sas cables
2-WD Red 2 tb sata hd's
2-Wd Black 1 tb sata hd's
2 Wd Blue 500 gb sata hd's
8 gb Crucial ballistix 1600
Sapphire HD 5670 pci-e 2.0 X16
Pci-E X1 TV tunner
50" Panasonic Plasma for viewing, rdp for maintenance and scheduling recordings

thoughts ?

While virtualization can be a good idea, virtualization on consumer grade hardware can be quite tricky and can also be full of annoying pitfalls...
You can definitely run all what you specified above in one box without using virtualization, unless I misunderstand your requirement....
If you just need one box to act as a file server, a backup server and a storage server to dump TV recordings from other separate machines into, you definitely do not need virtualization to get such a box up, running and capable.
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post #7 of 56 Old 06-16-2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

What is the benefit of doing this ?

(I need to learn more about this, I have a WHS2011/G860 machine)

The benefit of doing what? Virtualization in general or a specific scenario?

I guess in general. It seems such a cool concept that the geek in me wants to play around but I am not sure the exact benefit in my own personal situation. I can't see where it would help me ?

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post #8 of 56 Old 06-17-2013, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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i have the hardware and purchased whs 2011 to setup for backup of local pc's, file server, storage of recorded ota, [ and remote access at a latter date ].

could the box also act as a media server to record ota, and playback the recordings, i know whs doesn't have media center but could jriver or xbmc be used ?

that's where i thought virtualization may play a part, maybe win 8 virtual for media center duties, all in one box.

if there is a better method i am all ears, the server will be in the adjacent room only 3 ft away from the 50 Panasonic, not really wanting to add another device in the living room.
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post #9 of 56 Old 06-17-2013, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Is it possible? Yes.

Virtualization will allow you to do exactly what you want. Pass through the video card to a Win7/8 VM and there you go... virtualized HTPC.

if i understand correctly whs 2011 is capable of supporting a virtualized win 7/8 with media center using hyper v ?
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post #10 of 56 Old 06-17-2013, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You can run WHS2011 VM (VirtualBox or Client Hyper-V for Win8) on Win8 (with your Pentium G860).

do you happen to have a guide somewhere that outlines the procedures for doing so, which would be better for the host os ? i mean either win 8 or whs has to be the host doesn't it ?

virtulization is all new to me, just trying to get my head around it before i starting.
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post #11 of 56 Old 06-17-2013, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by balky View Post

While virtualization can be a good idea, virtualization on consumer grade hardware can be quite tricky and can also be full of annoying pitfalls...
You can definitely run all what you specified above in one box without using virtualization, unless I misunderstand your requirement....
If you just need one box to act as a file server, a backup server and a storage server to dump TV recordings from other separate machines into, you definitely do not need virtualization to get such a box up, running and capable.

wanted to get some sort of media center into it as well, recording, playback, scheduling, i already have a standalone player for disk and streaming, wasn't looking to rip movie disk into it, just music.
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post #12 of 56 Old 06-18-2013, 05:14 AM
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Windows 8 should be the host (otherwise playing back videos won't work adequately). There are tons of short guides to installing WHS2011 on VirtualBox VM (with various host OS). E.g. Deploying Windows Home Server 2011 with Oracle VirtualBox and a Drobo S (the host OS is Win7). More Google. Many people use WHS2011 on VM to back up client PCs at home, just like you.

VirtualBox is a free VM from Oracle. Client Hyper-V is built in Win8 (enable it in Control Panel > Programs > "Turn Windows features on or off") with similar functions.
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post #13 of 56 Old 06-18-2013, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks renethx, , makes searching ggle much simpler now that I know win 8 needs be the host.

can you forsee any potential problems with with the hardware, or any software Gotcha's I should look out for ?
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post #14 of 56 Old 06-18-2013, 07:48 AM
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Your system should be good. If it does not work, you can delete VM. VM does not change your system. So just try it. smile.gif
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post #15 of 56 Old 06-18-2013, 08:33 AM
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Well, I was thinking of doing something like this but I already have WHS2011 as the host. I want to use Virtual Box to do a Windows 7 VM mainly for WMC duties once I get an HDHR prime. Thought it would be best to keep most recordings (especially channels marked copy freely) centralized on the server and then also be able to do live TV remotely with remote potato or something like that. I can technically do this with the HTPC which has Win 7 I suppose, but I've been wanting to do a VM on server and see what I can do with it.

Will there be to many obstacles this way?
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post #16 of 56 Old 06-18-2013, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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mobo arrived, set it up for testing before installation and it doesn't recognize the keyboard [ either usb or ps2, even tried the ps2 to usb adapter ] resetting the comos or jumper makes no diff, looks like bad board.


suggestions for a board with similar features, heading for the egg.
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post #17 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 01:09 AM
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ASUS P8B WS: C206 chipset (mainly for Sandy Bridge)
ASUS P8C WS: C216 chipset (mainly for Ivy Bridge)
ASUS P9D WS: C226 LGA1150 (for Haswell)

These are good if you looking for a server mb with Xeon and ECC memory.

If you don't need ECC memory, you'd better go with a desktop mb (a lot more choice) with a desktop processor.
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post #18 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 01:44 AM
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Majority of Intel consumer mobos only support VT-x, which will allow you to virtualize...

You need a VT-d capable mobo and processor to be able to do hardware passthrough to your virtual machines...

On the minimum, you need to be able to configure hardware passthrough for the tuner card to your win 7 virtual machine if you want to go down the virtualization route...

Otherwise, a simple windows 7 setup will do all what I think you want here...

Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué? biggrin.gif
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post #19 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 02:04 AM
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As for VT-d support in desktop components,

- Processor: All Core i5/i7 non-K SKUs supports VT-d. (But always check ark.intel before buying a chip.)
- Motherboard: All ASRock Intel 7 / 8 Series chipset mb support VT-d, possibly except for very cheap ones. (ASUS is no-go.) Check also this thread: VT-d compatible motherboards.
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post #20 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

As for VT-d support in desktop components,

- Processor: All Core i5/i7 non-K SKUs supports VT-d. (But always check ark.intel before buying a chip.)
- Motherboard: All ASRock Intel 7 / 8 Series chipset mb support VT-d, possibly except for very cheap ones. (ASUS is no-go.) Check also this thread: VT-d compatible motherboards.

And the next hurdle to skip is knowing which PCI / PCi-e cards will passthrough reliably...

I once tried to configure passthrough for a 2 SATA port PCI-e card so the VM host (win 7) could have direct access and format in NTFS.
I was doing this so that data can still be accessible by plugging the HDDs into another windows machine in case the VM host or hypervisor goes belly up...

Well to my surprise, the hypervisor simply crashed (PSOD) at each attempt I made to pass the card through.

I tried with ESXi 5.0, 5.1, 5.1U1... all gave the same result...

Then there was the other time I passed an intel GB NIC card to a host, and the network speed capped at fast ethernet...

I have also seen situations where the passthrough was successfully configured and all seem to be working okay until a reboot the hypervisor happened... in this particular case, the cards were no longer passed through...

I do assist friends with setting up systems a lot, and my advise is to generally stay away from virtualization unless there is really no alternative. And in such a situation I would advise not to use consumer grade hardware...
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post #21 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 02:45 AM
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Yes, and looking at the first post, LSI looks good. TV tuner card may be in question...
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post #22 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 03:05 AM
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Correct, LSI is perfect for passthrough (from experience)

Asus mobo... big question mark

TV tuner card... question mark

If the TV tuner cannot decode MPEG by itself, you will need to pass the video card to the VM... another question mark...

The mobo does seem to have a DVI connector at the back, so you might just escape passing the Sapphire video card to the win7 VM, otherwise you need a second video card...

Will 8GB of RAM be enough eventually?...

This will go on and on until you finalize your build...
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post #23 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 04:38 AM
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Didn't you even use Google? smile.gif Direct answer from ASUS:

ASUS FAQ
Quote:
FAQ

I have arranged the suitable CPU which does support the VT-d function, but why the system still haven't the VT-d function on P8B WS?
Page Tools

Solution

For the P8B WS motherboard, you have to update the BIOS to 0604 or later version to support the VT-d function.

And you can enable the function in Advanced > System Agent Configuration > VT-d of BIOS menu.
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post #24 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Didn't you even use Google? smile.gif Direct answer from ASUS:

ASUS FAQ

No, I didn't google, and yes, I should have googled... biggrin.gif

Too many bad experiences with Asus Intel mobo for virtualization... I generally avoid them as much as possible...

Support for VT-d is way better on AMD boards in my opinion...
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post #25 of 56 Old 06-19-2013, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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cost prohibits server grade hardware for the intended use and the more I dig the more problems I run into from others exp with virtualization and also getting vt-d pass through working on consumer grade hardware.

I am assuming that 2 pci express 3.0 [ dual at 8X ] will not present any bottle necks when populated with the hd video card and the lsi card for the intended use.

what I need is a intel based mobo that can use the 1st pci express x16 slot for hd video from the card with hd audio through hdmi,
use the 2nd pci express x16 slot for the lsi card, or use the X4 slot if no forseen problems,
pci express x1 slot for the tuner card,
has an intel onboard lan 10/100/1000
1155 chipset for the g860 and latter upgrade to the guad core with HT E-1230 V2 processor,
8 gb DDr3 1600 MHz memory, can add more if needed,

maybe this board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121640



having the ability to use VT-d pass through and virtualization is not a must have,

having usb 3.0, esata, 1394 and dual lan is added bonus, not a requirement
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post #26 of 56 Old 07-01-2013, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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replacement board arrived and working, 1 wd red drive dead and still waiting for the replacement, have been running hardware test, after much reading I am following rec's here by renethx and loading win8, started the load tonight and will add mc but wait for on config till all drives, fans and fan extentions are in place so I can close the tower.
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post #27 of 56 Old 07-01-2013, 09:02 PM
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I run something similar to your setup, but all in one box on one OS.

My rig is a

P9X79-WS
i7-3930k @ 4.3GHz
32GB 2133MHz 11-11-11-30 2t @ 1600 9-9-9-24 1t
GTX650 1GB
Hauppage 2250 dual tuner
M1015 in IT mode
Vertex4 128GB x2
25TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0/Gb in 10 HDD's
W7 Ultimate x64

I run FlexRAID infinite snapshot raid to pool the 10 HDD's with 2 parity drives for my storage needs
I run PLEX to stream to Roku, IPad and Android devices
I run Syncback Pro to back up my other pc's, iPads and laptops in the background
I use diskeeper pro to defrag and maintain my drives
I use HD Sentinel pro to monitor and maintain my drives
I rip using DBPoweramp, DvDFab 9, MakeMKV, Handbrake and MKVMergeGUI
I run the nvidia 0-255 patch
I use MPC-HC to watch directly from the system with madVR, SVP, and ReClock running inside MediaBrowser, and MetaBrowser pulls my data
Multiple programs are hacked with the 3GB /largeaddressaware switch to allow up to 3GB of memory to be addressed by an x86 application (normal cap is 2)

My system can stream 2-3 plex devices while running MPC-HC and backing up other systems...no VM needed.

Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk HD 1.3
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post #28 of 56 Old 07-01-2013, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac25 View Post

can a single box be used for multi-purpose ? would like whs 2011 for local backup/imaging of 3 desktops and a laptop, all have win 7/8, and win 8 media center for recording and playback of non protected ota content all in one box, from what ive read here this could be accomplished with virtualization, can it be done and be stable, pain free ?, not really looking to dual boot.

ive been slowly picking up parts for a home server, what ive have so far.

Asus P8B WS 1155 intel 206 mobo
G860 Sb proc, will use E12XX v2 with HT latter
Lsi 9220-8i Megaraid card flashed to 1911 it
2-Mini Highpoint sas cables
2-WD Red 2 tb sata hd's
2-Wd Black 1 tb sata hd's
2 Wd Blue 500 gb sata hd's
8 gb Crucial ballistix 1600
Sapphire HD 5670 pci-e 2.0 X16
Pci-E X1 TV tunner
50" Panasonic Plasma for viewing, rdp for maintenance and scheduling recordings

thoughts ?
Why virtualize? Why not just run everything off whs?
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post #29 of 56 Old 07-02-2013, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Why virtualize? Why not just run everything off whs?

looks like whs has faded from focus and no MC, going W8 home server route for easier support of digital devices @ home, can always virtualize whs if needed, just seems simpler from what ive read.
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post #30 of 56 Old 07-02-2013, 07:42 AM
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Support ends 4/12/2016. No extended support. So you would have to look for another OS in less than 3 years.
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