**** So you've built your HTPC-NOW WHAT IS NEXT ?? How to get the "ULTIMATE" picture and sound quality from your HTPC !!!! (MADVR? SVP? XBMC? Mediabrowser? Jriver? ) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 810 Old 12-21-2013, 09:31 PM
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Link?
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post #272 of 810 Old 12-21-2013, 11:38 PM
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I managed to get Jinc3 + AR Chroma and Smooth Video running for 1080p (i) on an AMD A8-3870k APU with an overclocked GPU. cool.gif Had to sacrifice de-interlacing performance, but smooth Video made up for it.
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post #273 of 810 Old 12-26-2013, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Link?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms/0_100

That's got some good info in it. How serious do you want to get ?
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post #274 of 810 Old 01-10-2014, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know where renethx went ?

????

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post #275 of 810 Old 01-10-2014, 12:51 PM
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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #276 of 810 Old 01-12-2014, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL ^ biggrin.gif Nice one. tongue.gif

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post #277 of 810 Old 01-13-2014, 08:23 PM
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Been a while since my last post, but I have been lurking mostly, trying to get the basics on my HTPC down.  I have settled on Windows 7 WMC for the time being since its stable, does everything I want (Over air HD, netflix, hulu, dvr, blu-ray/dvd rips).  My current efforts are going into getting a video problem resolved.  It seems that certain video is slightly skippy.  Almost like a frame or two is being dropped every second or so.  I have installed Shark 007 codec pack and it helped (i think), but i dont know the difference between certain types of video enough to tell which ones got better.  it seemed that hulu streaming improved until tonight, where i am watching an old episode of top gear uk and i see the jutter/hesitation again in the video.  No tearing, just notice motion is not very smooth, especially when lots of things are moving in the picture or the camera is panning across a scene.

 

I have checked CPU usage during full screen playback in netflix/hulu at the highest quality and its below 20% at the peaks.  below 10% most of the time.  Network usage is fairly low, too, so i dont think its a connectivity/bandwidth problem. (FiOS 50/25 and speedtest.net shows roughly 50/25 or better) 

 

Blu-ray play direct from disc cpu useage is 25-30%, it bounces back and fourth. Video is silky smooth, could not find a single thing to complain about. 

 

MKV rip of the same blu ray is 15%-23% cpu usage but video hesitates similarly to how it does with netflix/hulu.

 

All of these observations are on full screen with 1920x1080 60Hz display settings in windows.

 

If I play a MKV rip of a blu-ray in vlc media player on full screen, i get similar performance as in WMC/hulu/netflix, described above.  But if I take it out of full screen on vlc media player, i get smoother video but still not like watching off the disc.  The VLC window still fits the display sceen fully, but the video playback is inside the vlc window, instead of edge to edge on the display.   

 

Is this a native resolution/hz issue?  

 

Display is a Sharp Aquos LC-60LE640U 

 

Here is the HTPC setup:

 

ASRock FM2A85X Extreme 6

AMD A10-6800K w/ Radeon HD graphics  4.10 GHz  

(Display Adapter is Radeon HD 8670D According to Device Manager, but its on chip, not a dedicated Graphics card)

8.0 GB Ram - G.Skill Ripjaw X DDR3 2133 

Windows 7 64bit, SP1 - On a Kingston 120 GB SSD

Media Drive - WD Black 2TB - No raid or anything.  its currectly the only storage drive (all media except direct from disc playback is coming from this drive)

 

Drivers:

 

AMD A10-6800K APU W/ Radeon HD Graphics - Driver: Microsoft   6.1.7600.16385 (dated 6/21/2006?!?! wtf?) 

AMD Radeon HD 8670D - Driver: AMD, Inc.  13.151.0.0

 

Cooling is done with the supplied AMD heatsink/fan and 3 case fans. One 120mm intake fan, over the HD's and into the center of the case.  two smaller (90mm?) exhaust fans out the back.  PSU also has its own internal fan.  cpu is pretty much right in front of the exhaust fans.  the cpu fan doesn't seem to ever get up to full speed but i have not actually verified this while playing video.  

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Here is a partial summary of GPUs for madVR. madVR includes several chroma / image up(down)scaling algorithms and GPU requirement depends on each algorithm. For the sake of convenience I introduced the notion of "levels", each of which consists of a chroma upscaling algorithm, an image upscaling algorithm, and an image downscale algorithm.



- Level 1: The most primitive algorithms (apart from Nearest neighboring).
- DXVA2: When image is scaled, the driver's chroma / image scaling algorithms are used; when image is not scaled, Bicubic 75 chroma upscaling algorithm is used.
- Level 2: MadVR's current default algorithms, that are supposed to work even with a weak GPU.
- Level 3: Anti-ringing flter is added to each algorithm of Level 2.
- Level 5: The best algorithms available today.

I think the above classification is pretty reasonable. There is a huge gap between Level 3 and Level 5. So I added an intermediate level, Level 4. But which is to be weaken from Level 5, chroma or image? Image scaling has much more visual impact than chroma upscaling. So I kept image scaling of Level 5 and lowered chroma upscaling algorithm a little bit (that will reduce the GPU requirement greatly when the source resolution is large).

Test system

- Core i5-4670
- ASRock Z87 Extreme4
- DDR3-1600 2 x 4GB
- 1 x SSD (OS), 1 x HDD (data)
- Windows 8 Professional, AMD graphics driver 13.4
- MCP-HC 1.6.8, LAV Filters 0.57.0 (DXVA2 copy-back), madVR v0.86.4

Test clips

There are two categories of video contents, film and video, in terms of frame rate. Film is shot by a movie camera @24fps (or 25fps or 30fps). Anime is included in this category. Video is shot by a video camera @60fps (or 50fps or 30fps), up to deinterlacing. Roughly speaking video is 2.5 times harder than film (or possibly more because of deinterlacing) to play back (precisely speaking, GPU load at "video" playback is roughly 2.5 times more than "film" playback) because madVR has to process each frame within a time interval of

- 41.67ms = 1/24fps for film
- 16.67ms = 1/60fps for video

(24 x 2.5 = 60.) The clips used:

Film

- F1: SD (720x480i60): DVD and NTSC movies.
- F2: HD (1280x720p24): ATSC movies and movies found on the Internet
- F3: FHD (1920x1080p24): BD and ATSC movies
- F4: 4K UHD (4096x2304p24)

Video (i = interlaced, p = progressive)

- V1: SD i (720x480i60): DVD and NTSC videos
- V2: HD p (1280x720p60): Camcorder and ATSC videos
- V3: (3/4)FHD i (1440x1080i60): HDTV videos in several countries (if you live in US, you can ignore it.)
- V4: FHD i (1920x1080i60): Camcorder and ATSC videos
- V5: FHD p (1920x1080p60): Camcorder videos
- V6: 4K UHD p (4096x2160p60)

F4 and V6 were used only for the 4K UHD target because downscaling 4K to HD / FHD by Catmull-Rom is too taxing (for example, even HD 7970 can't play V6 in a FHD display at Level 5 without dropped frames). If you play 4K files in a HD/FHD display, you'd better use DXVA2+EVR (e.g. WMP).

AMD dGPU for madVR

For a FHD (1920x1080) display:



If you are a film only person, HD 6570 is a good choice. Otherwise HD 7770 is minimum for Level 5.

For a HD (1366x768) (or 1280x720) display:



For a 4K UHD display:



If you are a film only person, HD 7770 is a good choice. Otherwise HD 7970 is the only choice for Level 5.

*: Not good for (3/4)FHD i.

Just by going on the display resolution and the display adapter model number I think my hardware should be more than capable of doing just about anything in the 1920x1080.  my only question mark might be the memory?  

 

Are there any threads or resources for setting up my software/hardware to make the most of it.  Are there better drivers for the hardware I am using than the ones currently used?

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.  I have read through it over the months and it has lots of good info and great questions to consider.  

 

And thanks for any suggestions or advice you can offer for my situation.

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post #278 of 810 Old 01-13-2014, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
 All of these observations are on full screen with 1920x1080 60Hz display settings in windows.

nearly all blu rays are 23 hz (24000/1001) so playback with 60 hz results in a very heavy judder.

Quote:

 

Been a while since my last post, but I have been lurking mostly, trying to get the basics on my HTPC down. I have settled on Windows 7 WMC for the time being since its stable, does everything I want (Over air HD, netflix, hulu, dvr, blu-ray/dvd rips). My current efforts are going into getting a video problem resolved. It seems that certain video is slightly skippy. Almost like a frame or two is being dropped every second or so. I have installed Shark 007 codec pack and it helped (i think), but i dont know the difference between certain types of video enough to tell which ones got better. it seemed that hulu streaming improved until tonight, where i am watching an old episode of top gear uk and i see the jutter/hesitation again in the video. No tearing, just notice motion is not very smooth, especially when lots of things are moving in the picture or the camera is panning across a scene.

what programms are you using right now wmc, vlc or a madvr capable video player?

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post #279 of 810 Old 01-14-2014, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post

nearly all blu rays are 23 hz (24000/1001) so playback with 60 hz results in a very heavy judder.
what programms are you using right now wmc, vlc or a madvr capable video player?


That is interesting about 60hz resulting in judder because bluray playback seems to be great. This is in vlc because wmc does not support Blu ray. Will I have to manually change the display adapter refresh frequency every time I want to watch media with a different frame rate? I plan to watch DVD / blu ray rips, downloaded movies/tv shows/auto races, live ota HD TV and streaming Netflix/Hulu frequently. If I have to mess with settings each time I watch a different source I would be disappointed.

I have ripped a few blu ray discs to .mkv so that I can watch them in wmc. I would like wmc to be my one stop front end for all my media. If I have to use vlc for watching directly from a blu ray, I could live with that.

Thanks for the reply
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post #280 of 810 Old 01-14-2014, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
 If I have to mess with settings each time I watch a different source I would be disappointed.

there are more than one way to get that automated. madvr can do it. our you use madvr smoothmotion this way you get judder free plyback too.

 

but this thread is about high quality.

 

Quote:
That is interesting about 60hz resulting in judder because bluray playback seems to be great. This is in vlc because wmc does not support Blu ray.

wmc can't play m2ts files ? not that i care about wmc is not for HQ.

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post #281 of 810 Old 01-14-2014, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post

there are more than one way to get that automated. madvr can do it. our you use madvr smoothmotion this way you get judder free plyback too.

but this thread is about high quality.

wmc can't play m2ts files ? not that i care about wmc is not for HQ.

I see. I will look for a thread more appropriate for my issue of resolving juddered video playback, but thanks for the info. I am not familiar with madvr so I will have to look into what it is and if I can integrate it into wmc.

I think wmc does not play blu ray because of licensing from Sony and Microsoft not wanting to pay for each copy of windows to be licensed for blu ray playback. This is not an issue for me add there are a couple ways to integrate vlc and wmc.

If anyone want to offer any other info, feel free to pm me if this thread is not the appropriate place to discuss this issue. Thanks again.
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post #282 of 810 Old 01-14-2014, 08:11 AM
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madvr is a high quality video renderer but it is not usable with WMC (yet and most likely not ny time soon) same goes for vlc. the shark codec pack should have ny impact on vlc it can have an impact on WMC but only when WMC is tweak.

 

as far as i know there is no automated way to change the refresh rate in WMC you can try tools.

 

you can try XBMC it's not know for his high quality but this medi center has an automated refresh rate changer and it's like WMC. correct me if i'm wrong but it can play bd disk direct with anydvd hd.

 

BTW. the hole quote in your post is about madvr nothing else. the hole quality settings are about resize setting in madvr so i'm kinda confused that you did know what madvr is.

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post #283 of 810 Old 01-17-2014, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post

madvr is a high quality video renderer but it is not usable with WMC (yet and most likely not ny time soon) same goes for vlc. the shark codec pack should have ny impact on vlc it can have an impact on WMC but only when WMC is tweak.

You can use MPC-HC as an external player in XBMC or MB3/WMC if you wanted MadVR support and playback.

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post #284 of 810 Old 01-17-2014, 05:15 PM
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Awesome thread, this! smile.gif

Much of it has revolved around using the (HT)PC for video processing. But what about the audio side of things?

Say you want to get rid of your receiver and put your much more powerful and flexible PC to use as an audio processor as well, wiring it directly to a set of power amplifiers driving your loudspeakers?

There are good PCIe sound cards available (and pro-equipment from eg. lynx if you are more picky and have a deeper wallet). For room correction there are several options as well, like Dirac, Audiolense, Acourate and others. And you can do mixing and bass management and a bunch of other things. The sky is basically the limit.

So what is stopping us?

My personal concern is to avoid drowning in PC troubleshooting and patching software and drivers and stuff together from here and there to get everything working reliably (or at all). After a couple days of research my impression is that J River Media Center has developed into quite a powerful central software for handling much of not only video but also and perhaps primarily audio. My personal niggle is that I don't like the media browsing gui - or rather prefer others (MBT!). Also, not all content - for instance streaming services and such - is available from inside JRMC.

Recently I read that you can use JRMC pretty much as a virtual sound card (much like Dirac -Live) and shoot all your audio through it (via Wasapi if I am not mistaken). To me this seems like the ultimate solution. For instance in my case I could use reclock to get my sound from MBT into wasapi and from there into JRMC. In there I have access to JRMC's full arsenal of audio processing goodness, and can for instance route the decoded and mixed-or-whatever-sound to Dirac for room correction.

Could anyone with some know-how perhaps comment on this? Does it work well? Do you run into A/V sync problems if you introduce audio latency by processing in JRMC or later in the chain? Can Madvr delay the video in such case or how would you solve that?
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post #285 of 810 Old 01-17-2014, 05:32 PM
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What Dirac solution are you using?
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post #286 of 810 Old 01-17-2014, 05:35 PM
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Me personally have not gotten that far - I still route my sound via HDMI to a receiver.

But Dirac comes in a 7.1 version if that is what you are asking - and that's what I would be interested in.
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post #287 of 810 Old 01-17-2014, 06:09 PM
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I'm researching some standalone room correction and the Dirac Live looks cool, but was hoping for something that wasn't PC based. I see miniDSP has some OpenDRC hardware, but I'm still trying to find out how it differs from Dirac Live.
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post #288 of 810 Old 01-19-2014, 08:46 AM
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I use a miniDSP 2x4 unit to split out the two sub channels from my AV reciever to 4 10" subs in the theater room. What it does for slightly over $100 is pretty amazing. I've used the Dirac software  (on trial) and it is excellent as well.

 

My take on HTPC in the audio domain is that it won't support the same same level of control that can be achieved in the video domain. There you can control the bits from the DVD right out to the pixels on the display panels.

 

For audio you would need to do what Bob Stuart pioneered at Meridian Audio: take the bits out to a digital amp in each speaker with acoustic drivers matched to the electronics.

 

Doing room EQ for the lower frequencies is absolutely essential. I use small, fast, subs and multiple locations to get what I would call "transparent bass". Anything above 200Hz I trust to good speaker design and quality electronics. Next up would be some acoustic treatment for the room. If you can get the bass right, most decent speakers will provide all the sound quality you need to match that HTPC video.

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post #289 of 810 Old 01-20-2014, 12:15 AM
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Yeah I use a minidsp 4x10 for bass integration and EQ for lower frequencies too. Now I'm looking for a more comprehensive and powerful solution for room correction, similar to Audessey, but with target curves I construct. Harman makes some pro stuff, but it is big bucks.
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post #290 of 810 Old 01-22-2014, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Yeah I use a minidsp 4x10 for bass integration and EQ for lower frequencies too. Now I'm looking for a more comprehensive and powerful solution for room correction, similar to Audessey, but with target curves I construct. Harman makes some pro stuff, but it is big bucks.

Give Nyal Mellor over at acoustic frontiers a call. He may have some suggestions for you. DEQX may have a product that fits what you need (I have never used it, only read a few marketing blurbs).
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post #291 of 810 Old 01-22-2014, 09:45 AM
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DEQX may have a product that fits what you need (I have never used it, only read a few marketing blurbs).
Starts at $3500
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post #292 of 810 Old 01-24-2014, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Where does it end ? Lol

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post #293 of 810 Old 01-24-2014, 01:24 PM
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Where does it end ? Lol
The DEQX is superb at what it does. I have a friend with 2 in his 5 way system, but he is strictly music and hates movies. Great system though.
I have always planned on using one of these as final step in my HT for the mains.
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post #294 of 810 Old 01-25-2014, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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How many dropped frames do you guys get usually ?

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post #295 of 810 Old 01-25-2014, 08:15 PM
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Zero

HD7770
Madvr level 5
23.97637

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post #296 of 810 Old 01-26-2014, 02:10 AM
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How many dropped frames do you guys get usually ?

None after the initial burst

HD 7870 and i5

Jinc - 3 taps, anti ringing filter
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post #297 of 810 Old 01-26-2014, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I get the initial burst too but things seem to straighten out after that. Anything like 1 per 2 hours or greater means you really won't suffer a dropped frame during a movie, which is probably better than even a good BR player does. I have my eye on a 2GB R270X Radeon though.. tongue.gif

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post #298 of 810 Old 01-26-2014, 02:19 PM
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How does the 7750 compare to the newer R7 240 or 250? Madvr being the most stressful thing it will do.
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post #299 of 810 Old 01-26-2014, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I get the initial burst too but things seem to straighten out after that. Anything like 1 per 2 hours or greater means you really won't suffer a dropped frame during a movie, which is probably better than even a good BR player does. I have my eye on a 2GB R270X Radeon though.. tongue.gif

Me too. I got my eye on the Sapphire R9 270x Toxic Edition. Quietest and coolest of the bunch. Should just barely fit in the new Silverstone GD10.

Can't wait to start that build once the 10 is released.
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post #300 of 810 Old 01-26-2014, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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My case is a Cosmos II so I should have enough room for any card biggrin.gif

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