**** So you've built your HTPC-NOW WHAT IS NEXT ?? How to get the "ULTIMATE" picture and sound quality from your HTPC !!!! (MADVR? SVP? XBMC? Mediabrowser? Jriver? ) - Page 28 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:00 PM
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Renethx ,you have a new card to test AMD R9 285 It has a new UVD engine for 4K. Wonder how accurate 23.976 hz is with AMD cards.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post
Renethx ,you have a new card to test AMD R9 285 It has a new UVD engine for 4K. Wonder how accurate 23.976 hz is with AMD cards.
it's about time for AMD to get UHD decoding oh wait they said they support this with older cards too.
and the clock is not that easy of an topic. it's different from card to card and if you don't use HDMI or DP you get a other clock that is different and there is still the system clock...
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post
Renethx ,you have a new card to test AMD R9 285 It has a new UVD engine for 4K. Wonder how accurate 23.976 hz is with AMD cards.

Dang and to think in building 2 separate new HTPC's in the last month for different 4K projector setups and I ended up putting an R290 in one and R290X in the other.

I've never had any issue with perfectly accurate 23.976 with any AMD cards since my initial 7950 after several generations of Nvidia (can't remember what gen ATI Radeon I would have had before that).

On the issue of settings for upper end AMD. I've experimented but really just followed Renethx's suggestions for level 5 and can't help wondering with there not being that many guys out there with say the 290X in their system, what settings would push things to the limit with 1080p playback of 720p and 1080p files (hamstrung by AVR since getting rid of Denon 4520 for McIntosh MX)?


Last edited by OzHDHT; 09-02-2014 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Dang and to think in building 2 separate new HTPC's in the last month for different 4K projector setups and I ended up putting an R290 in one and R290X in the other.

I've never had any issue with perfectly accurate 23.976 with any AMD cards since my initial 7950 after several generations of Nvidia (can't remember what gen ATI Radeon I would have had before that).

On the issue of settings for upper end AMD. I've experimented but really just followed Renethx's suggestions for level 5 and can't help wondering with there not being that many guys out there with say the 290X in their system, what settings would push things to the limit with 1080p playback of 720p and 1080p files (hamstrung by AVR since getting rid of Denon 4520 for McIntosh MX)?
Quoted from Guru3d.com R9 285 review ""The Radeon R9 285 is AMD’s first discrete GPU with a redesigned fixed-function decoder (UVD – Unified Video Decoder) that supports full hardware decode of 4K H.264 videos. This next generation UVD supports H.264 base, main and high profile, up to level 5.2. The chart below shows the benefit of having a fixed-function decoder :

The primary benefit of having a fixed-function decoder, especially for high bit-rate 4K content, is the significantly reduced CPU utilization. This results in a more responsive system, lower battery life ( for mobile products ) and more importantly, the system will not exhibit any skipped frames during playback.


The AMD Radeon R9 285 also features a redesigned fixed-function encoder ( VCE - Video Coding Engine ) that supports full hardware encoding to H.264 format. This version of VCE supports encoding to H.264 baseline and main profiles. The main use case for VCE is transcoding, which is very useful when the user wants to save on storage space as well as allow older, lower power devices (such as handhelds, laptops, etc.) to decode and playback their content at lower resolutions and/or lower bit-rate. The VCE works in concert with the powerful UVD in the Radeon R9 285 to accelerate the transcoding pipeline. The chart below shows the performance uplift expected compared to the competition:""
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post
Quoted from Guru3d.com R9 285 review ""The Radeon R9 285 is AMD’s first discrete GPU with a redesigned fixed-function decoder (UVD – Unified Video Decoder) that supports full hardware decode of 4K H.264 videos. This next generation UVD supports H.264 base, main and high profile, up to level 5.2. The chart below shows the benefit of having a fixed-function decoder :

The primary benefit of having a fixed-function decoder, especially for high bit-rate 4K content, is the significantly reduced CPU utilization. This results in a more responsive system, lower battery life ( for mobile products ) and more importantly, the system will not exhibit any skipped frames during playback.


The AMD Radeon R9 285 also features a redesigned fixed-function encoder ( VCE - Video Coding Engine ) that supports full hardware encoding to H.264 format. This version of VCE supports encoding to H.264 baseline and main profiles. The main use case for VCE is transcoding, which is very useful when the user wants to save on storage space as well as allow older, lower power devices (such as handhelds, laptops, etc.) to decode and playback their content at lower resolutions and/or lower bit-rate. The VCE works in concert with the powerful UVD in the Radeon R9 285 to accelerate the transcoding pipeline. The chart below shows the performance uplift expected compared to the competition:""
Yep already read up several review sites already on the R285 looking for comments on the new 4K decoding. Most reviews aside from the one above are all focused on gaming capabilities as per usual.

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Old 09-02-2014, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
On the issue of settings for upper end AMD. I've experimented but really just followed Renethx's suggestions for level 5 and can't help wondering with there not being that many guys out there with say the 290X in their system, what settings would push things to the limit with 1080p playback of 720p and 1080p files (hamstrung by AVR since getting rid of Denon 4520 for McIntosh MX)?
Playing HD/FHD movies in 4K display is relatively easy, even R9 270X can handle higher scaling algorithms such as NNEDI3 32. Only HD/FHD videos (and movies+SVP) will push 290X to the limit (2.5 times harder than movies), but you will need DisplayPort for this purpose. Or try Dithering > Error Diffusion, that's another heavy algorithm.

Last edited by renethx; 09-02-2014 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Playing HD/FHD movies in 4K display is relatively easy, even R9 270X can handle higher scaling algorithms such as NNEDI3 32. Only HD/FHD videos (and movies+SVP) will push 290X to the limit (2.5 times harder than movies), but you will need DisplayPort for this purpose. Or try Dithering > Error Diffusion, that's another heavy algorithm.
Will be a little while before I'm scaling 4K again in both set ups thanks to current lack of pass-through (thinking when the new Marantz SSP's arrive I may jump back across). I was playing 4K when I purposely purchased the 7950 direct to the VW1000 projector I had at the time with very little issue. I guess it is a case now of do I push NNEDI3 any further with 1080p output in mind as I have noticed it struggles in situations with chroma doubling 32 Neurons or is it kind of pointless? I had recently experimented with Dithering Error Diffusion and noticed how it affected things - that wasn't on the 290 or 290X equipped PC though. As I hadn't read anything to promote dabbling in Error diffusion settings I left it alone.

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Old 09-20-2014, 04:53 PM
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Hi folks,
GTX970 reviews are up, can somebody comment on these Maxwell cards as they have finally HDMI 2.0 and are very noise and power efficient?
Thanks
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Old 09-20-2014, 08:29 PM
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Hi folks,
GTX970 reviews are up, can somebody comment on these Maxwell cards as they have finally HDMI 2.0 and are very noise and power efficient?
Thanks
VPL-VW1000ES and HTPC at 4k (native rez)
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Old 09-22-2014, 03:04 PM
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MSI'S 900 Series are not HDMI 2.0
It seems a lot of manufacturers are using HDMI 2.0 compatible 1.4a . All of MSI's 900 series are 1.4a. And it seems none are HDCP 2.2.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:31 AM
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Most probably MSI simply copied the description of an older GPU and just replaced the model names. Which is why it still reads HDMI 1.4. The same was reported from some 970/980 NVidia product description website. But clearly the new GPUs are intended to be HDMI 2.0. So I'm pretty sure this is just a "typo" on the websites, which will be corrected sooner or later. HDCP 2.2 seems to be missing (at this point), though. Nobody knows if this can be "updated" via a newer driver later or not. I'd recommend not to expect that.
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:09 AM
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What settings people recommend for mostly 720p24 videos to a 1440p display?

l watch mostly 720p24 anime videos wich l have to use very strong algorithms in order to the video to look good.

this are my settings:

Chroma upscaling; Jinc, 3 taps (AR)
Image upscalnig; Jinc, 3 taps (AR)
Image Doubling: Luma 64 Neurons
Image downscaling; Catmull-Rom (AR, LL)

l have a 780ti and a I7 3770 cpu, opstiosn like Error Difusion or Smooth Motion are turning on?

so waht settigns are the best FOR A 1440P Display?

thanks for any help!!

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Old 09-28-2014, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by onaga View Post
What settings people recommend for mostly 720p24 videos to a 1440p display?

l watch mostly 720p24 anime videos wich l have to use very strong algorithms in order to the video to look good.

this are my settings:

Chroma upscaling; Jinc, 3 taps (AR)
Image upscalnig; Jinc, 3 taps (AR)
Image Doubling: Luma 64 Neurons
Image downscaling; Catmull-Rom (AR, LL)

l have a 780ti and a I7 3770 cpu, opstiosn like Error Difusion or Smooth Motion are turning on?

so waht settigns are the best FOR A 1440P Display?

thanks for any help!!
Your card is fast enough for Level 5. Smooth Motion is recommended when your display does not support 23Hz. The default dithering algorithm is good enough. For reduce banding (if exists), turn on "reduce banding artifacts".
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:22 AM
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Your card is fast enough for Level 5. Smooth Motion is recommended when your display does not support 23Hz. The default dithering algorithm is good enough. For reduce banding (if exists), turn on "reduce banding artifacts".
thanks for the reply renethx

Your last levels are chroma BC75, Luma Lanczos and Image Doubling 32?

They will deliver better PQ that my current settings? (all Jinc 3 and 64 doubling), as i say i watch mostly 720p Animatian that in 1440p loose much sharp in the upscaling.

also, when watch some 1080 BDs, the its still a little upscaling for 1440p, Lanczos will be better upscaler for this?.

l also try it to do Chroma Upscaling 32 Neurons and Luma Doubling 32 neurons and.... l dont get dropped frames but it gets so many presentation gliches, l dont see the effects in videos but they go up to almos 1000 in video playback so it make me nervous.
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post
Hi folks,
GTX970 reviews are up, can somebody comment on these Maxwell cards as they have finally HDMI 2.0 and are very noise and power efficient?
Thanks
http://anandtech.com/show/8568/the-g...w-feat-evga/14

The compute scores have improved significantly hopefully this means they'll work well with nnedi3 and in future when the 960 comes out and future maxwell 2.0 cards come out they'll perform well.

As for other nvidia issues vs amd such as the levels I don't know if they have been resolved.
This looks promising but we have to wait for someone to test nnedi 3 performance
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:43 AM
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As for other nvidia issues vs amd such as the levels I don't know if they have been resolved.
This looks promising but we have to wait for someone to test nnedi 3 performance
this is not an issue from nvidia it is an issue with the EDID from the TVs nothing else. nvidia and intel simple doesn't have a option in the driver to switch. so a simple driver update can add this option but nvidia and intel doesn't care because they did everything correct by following the EDID.
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Old 10-10-2014, 01:56 AM
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I just upgraded my HTPC to a i5 4690, 8GB (1600MHz) RAM and AMD R9 285 (PCIE-3).

Having trouble with "level 5" upsampling of 720p material (to 1080p). This card should be able to do it? I am however using error diffusion, could this be slowing it down too much?

The GPU load is however quite inconsistent, although i get up to 98% often.

Im running the latest 14.9 WHQL drivers. Maybe I should try the new 14.x RC1 with OpenCL 2.0? Any suggestions to queue lengths etc?

madVR 87.10 and latest MPC-HC.
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Old 10-10-2014, 02:07 AM
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Is it 720p24 or 720p60? 60p requires 2.5x as much power as 24p. Also if you GPU load in inconsistent, that could mean that your GPU is switching between different power states all the time. You could try forcing your GPU to the highest power state when using madVR. Maybe that could help getting things more consistent? And yes, error diffusion eats up extra performance, especially for 60p (or when using smooth motion frc). You could try going back to ordered dithering. The image quality difference between madVR's ordered dithering and error diffusion is very small, anyway...
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Is it 720p24 or 720p60? 60p requires 2.5x as much power as 24p. Also if you GPU load in inconsistent, that could mean that your GPU is switching between different power states all the time. You could try forcing your GPU to the highest power state when using madVR. Maybe that could help getting things more consistent? And yes, error diffusion eats up extra performance, especially for 60p (or when using smooth motion frc). You could try going back to ordered dithering. The image quality difference between madVR's ordered dithering and error diffusion is very small, anyway...
Thanks for a fast reply!

It's 720p24, sorry for not specing it.

I'll do some more testing over the weekend. I'd rather not put the PC in full-out power mode since I playback a lot of music on it. Gonna try drivers first, then look a bit more on GPU-modes and finally maybe overclock the GPU.

If I am to start downprioritizing (feels strange though when looking at Renethx comparison sheets) - what to start with first? Error diffusion I take it? Then?

What setting should I use in LAV Video (Software, DXVA Native, DXVA Copy-back)? I tried software to "spare" som GPU - correct?


On my gaming/production PC I have a GTX680 and a 6-core overclocked 4930k @ 4.5GHz, but man trying these settings @ 3440*1440 resolution is quite taxing. It's not possible with that GPU it seems.
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:42 AM
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Isn't there some profiling capability in the GPU drivers? Or maybe in some external tools? For music playback of course the GPU shouldn't run at full power. But maybe you can make a profile which sets it at full power when video playback is running?

Yes, the first thing to go would be Error Diffusion, IMHO. It's nice to have but not really crucial. "Everything else" is more important for image quality.

Personally, I prefer software decoding, but YMMV.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:32 PM
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So what's everyone's take on J3AR vs NNEDI now that the new toy syndrom's faded away?

I wasn't able to use the latter during summer due to the excessive noise my poorly efficient GPU fan was making but now that winter's here I can use it again and as much as I can imagine how that would help on a videoprojector with poor sharpness, NNEDI does look far nicer on anime for sure but doesn't it look oversharp and artificial on regular movies with a LCD screen?

madshi showed some comparison pictures where grass looked weird with NNEDI and before the N bomb was out everyone seemed to agree that J3AR looked very natural and kinda "analog".

At this point I'm contemplating getting a semi-passive STRIX GTX750Ti or wait for a(n also semi-passive) midrange Maxwell but I still kinda have the feeling that as much as there's an acceptable compromise with NNEDI on SD@1080p I'm still dubious as to whether 720p/1440p@1080p is worth the electric consumption

Also, AMD boards will be stuck with the 13.12 drivers forever as it would appear and I was kinda hoping updating to W10 next year.

Last edited by leeperry; 11-05-2014 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 11-06-2014, 03:42 AM
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I use nnedi3 for SD only.
I don't use jinc at all still at spline 3 ar. and i can use nnedi3/jinc3 ar easily with my r9 270.
I guess it has a lot to do with my seating distance.

nice scaler but for 720p on a 1080p screen not worth it.

I'm pretty sure I got this opinion right at the start of nnedi3. long a ago not sure any more.
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Old 11-06-2014, 04:06 PM
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I use nnedi3 for SD only.
I don't use jinc at all still at spline 3 ar. and i can use nnedi3/jinc3 ar easily with my r9 270.
I guess it has a lot to do with my seating distance.

nice scaler but for 720p on a 1080p screen not worth it.

I'm pretty sure I got this opinion right at the start of nnedi3. long a ago not sure any more.
Horse for courses, you can't really make a blanket statement like that for all displays and MadVR settings. As I understand it you are using your HTPC setup with a TV display. For people who use HTPCs with projectors, there's a hell of a lot more detail to be seen at most owner's viewing distances and screen sizes when comparing the effects of different modes within MadVR. I view 720p MKV's on my VW1100 at 1080p in 16:9 on my 138" CIH set up, on pretty much a nightly basis, and I can assure you since I started using NNEDI3 from Jinc3 previously with my R290X, it's made quite a visible difference to the PQ.

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Old 11-06-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Horse for courses, you can't really make a blanket statement like that for all displays and MadVR settings. As I understand it you are using your HTPC setup with a TV display. For people who use HTPCs with projectors, there's a hell of a lot more detail to be seen at most owner's viewing distances and screen sizes when comparing the effects of different modes within MadVR. I view 720p MKV's on my VW1100 at 1080p in 16:9 on my 138" CIH set up, on pretty much a nightly basis, and I can assure you since I started using NNEDI3 from Jinc3 previously with my R290X, it's made quite a visible difference to the PQ.
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I guess it has a lot to do with my seating distance.
I can't do what?
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Old 11-06-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
I can't do what?

Yes, you said it in one with the your ref to you
Quote:
seating distance
But you were suggesting very generally that it a nice scaler but not worth it
Quote:
nice scaler but for 720p on a 1080p screen not worth it.
I simply wanted to make it clear to others that your opinion was based on display type and as you further pointed out, seating distance (hence my comment about projector screens and comparative seating distance).


Last edited by OzHDHT; 11-06-2014 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:23 AM
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So here is my setup - I recently upgraded the Video Card.
Video Card - SAPPHIRE 100366-2L Radeon R7 260X 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 CrossFireX Support Video Card .


MotherBoard - ASRock 880GM-LE AM3 AMD 880G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
CPU Fan - Scythe SCSK-1100 100mm Shuriken Rev. B 3 Heat Pipes CPU Cooler
CPU - AMD Athlon II X4 620 @2605 MHz
Memory - Kingston HyperX X2 Grey Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Desktop Memory Model KHX1600C9D3X2K2/4GX
Power Supply - Antec NEO ECO 400C 400W Continuous Power ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
Case - 1 x nMEDIAPC Black Aluminum panel & Steel HTPC 1000B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case


I have been running KCP and tried the highest setting but will get random blocking in the left center of the screen. I do need to do some more testing to see if any values are high but I don't recall anything standing out. Which setting from KCP or your Level1-5 should by setup be able to handle?




"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "

Sony 55EX500 Settings

Last edited by cburbs; 11-07-2014 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 11-10-2014, 03:41 AM
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Hi to everyone,

I'm a newbie here although reading all your post for a long time but I did not dear to comment since I'm a total NOOB and DUMB PERSON in what concerns the subject, however I want to ask a stupid question so please do not shoot hard.

Renethx, your last post shows that Level 5 = Chroma (BC75AR) + Luma Doubling (N32) + Img Upscaling (LZ3AR) + Img Downscaling (CRARLL).

I have an I3 3220T with a HD2500 iGPU and I have the following settings enable for madVR:
Chroma: BC75AR
Luma Doubling: N32 for a factor of 1.5
Img Upscalling: DXVA
Img Downscalling: DXVA
I have unchecked all boxes from the tab Trade quality for performance
and I'm using Intel QuickSync in LAV Video.

You have also posted some time ago a table showing the DXVA2 scaling algorithms used and for Intel:
Img Upscaling was similar to LZAR (3 taps?) and Img downscaling was similar to CRAR (LL?).

If you made an equivalent of all the above it results that with Intel DXVA (even the poorest HD2500) we are close to Level 5 of your table which is quite surprising vs the most powerfull / expensive AMD or nVidia graphics cards.

Or am I missing something here?

Just for ref. with the above settings my GPU load is around 75-80% and I have only played PAL DVDs, 720p23hz and 1080p23hz.

Thanks a lot for any reply / feedback from any of you and please do not shoot hard )

Last edited by ionutm80; 11-10-2014 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 11-14-2014, 06:12 PM
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Anyone using that passive 750Ti? http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/P..._KalmX/30.html
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Palit's GeForce GTX 750 Ti KalmX is in a unique position to cater to media-PC users who want a completely quiet graphics card with some shading power, be it for games or more demanding video renderers, like madVR (which I highly recommend, by the way).
I thought the STRIX 750Ti would be good as it's passive up to 65°C but its fans can quickly go 1400/1800rpm afterwards, they skimped on the cooler and once it's active it really gets active duh...still better than the MSI TF4 that's capped to 900rpm, though.

My o/c 7850 is kinda overkill for my needs in mVR, I don't need 256x NNEDI heh so I think this passive 750Ti should make me plenty happy........well, except if madshi has another killer scaler up his sleeve because then I would have to wait for a semi-passive GTX960 but my 7850 gets noisy as hell under load and it has to go
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Old 11-15-2014, 05:29 AM
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I got a R9 270 passive, cooled by a 120 mm case cooler you could try something like this too with your current GPU.
so using a passive 750 ti should be no problem.
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Old 11-15-2014, 06:27 AM
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I was hoping to install an AC Twin Turbo II on my 7850 but the stupid thing needs 2.5 slots and I don't have the room, I love the PQ but the tearing is annoying in windowed mode as I run W7 with Aero disabled so a passive Maxwell should hit the spot as it supposedly doesn't tear and I don't wanna be stuck with the 13.12 drivers forever.

I ran NNEDI comparisons on 1/4 DVD(360*288)@1080p yesterday and I don't see any good reason to crank up neurons, especially from a distance. madshi said that 32x would be a bare minimum so be it but 16x already looks a lot better than J3AR. I especially like how GL dithering provides a very subtle EE, I wish there were a hotkey for that.

I also tried 2X NNEDI and it looked way too artificial to my taste meaning that even a non-Ti 750 might do the trick but the price difference is too small to bother on those passive Palit's, especially as there's always the possiblity of madshi coming up with another GPU hogging feature

Yep, I did plan on kludging a 120mm blowing perpendicular to the board, this will not void the warranty and will ensure that the GPU heat doesn't suffocate my HDD, but a 750Ti only needs 28W under load IRL: http://cryptomining-blog.com/1141-a-...ce-gtx-750-ti/

PS: indeed a vanilla 750 should be plenty fast enough for mVR: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7764/t...iew-maxwell/21

Last edited by leeperry; 11-15-2014 at 06:56 AM.
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