**** So you've built your HTPC-NOW WHAT IS NEXT ?? How to get the "ULTIMATE" picture and sound quality from your HTPC !!!! (MADVR? SVP? XBMC? Mediabrowser? Jriver? ) - Page 31 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 32Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #901 of 924 Old 02-20-2015, 09:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
so here's what I get:

chroma upscaling: jinc3ar
image upscaling: lancsoz4ar
image doubling: nnedi3 32
37ms

chroma upscaling: jinc3ar
image upscaling: lancsoz3ar
image doubling: nnedi3 32
35ms

chroma upscaling: bicubic75ar
image upscaling: bicubic75ar
image doubling: nnedi3 32
34ms

chroma upscaling: jinc3ar
image upscaling: lancsoz3ar
image doubling: nnedi3 16
32ms

chroma upscaling: jinc3ar
image upscaling: lancsoz3ar
image doubling: nnedi3 16
30ms

chroma upscaling: jinc3ar
image upscaling: lancsoz3ar
image doubling: nnedi3 16
30ms

chroma upscaling: jinc3ar
image upscaling: bicubic75ar
image doubling: nnedi3 16
29ms

chroma upscaling: bicubic75ar
image upscaling: bicubic75ar
image doubling: nnedi3 16
28ms

Looks like most of the hit is coming from nnedi3 16 (close to 30ms), and then from 16->32 only a ~6ms more hit.

So for 30fps videos, nnedi32 is a no go, but 16 is doable (although it is getting close to the limit 33ms)
Thanks very much for taking the time to do this, the results are disappointing, it doesn't look like nnedi3 32 will work for 1080>2160@30p unless you start checking the trade quality for performance options.

I think an r9 270x can do so although power consumption is far higher, especially when just playing back video files.

Is your display 2160p? As in the image is not being down-scaled again to 1440p using catmull rom is it?
Plutotype likes this.
leonccyiu is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #902 of 924 Old 02-20-2015, 09:40 PM
Member
 
bcec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonccyiu View Post
Thanks very much for taking the time to do this, the results are disappointing, it doesn't look like nnedi3 32 will work for 1080>2160@30p unless you start checking the trade quality for performance options.

I think an r9 270x can do so although power consumption is far higher, especially when just playing back video files.

Is your display 2160p? As in the image is not being down-scaled again to 1440p using catmull rom is it?
Happy to help. The display is a Samsung 4k tv (hu8550)
leonccyiu likes this.
bcec is online now  
post #903 of 924 Old 02-21-2015, 12:39 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
Happy to help. The display is a Samsung 4k tv (hu8550)
Sorry to be a pain and ask another question, thanks for your answers so far, how does the upscaling compare when you play 1080p and lower resolutions using your tv's internal media player and madvr using nnedi3@32/lanczos3ar and jinc3ar alone?
leonccyiu is online now  
post #904 of 924 Old 02-21-2015, 09:12 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,406
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonccyiu View Post
Thanks very much for taking the time to do this, the results are disappointing, it doesn't look like nnedi3 32 will work for 1080>2160@30p unless you start checking the trade quality for performance options.

I think an r9 270x can do so although power consumption is far higher, especially when just playing back video files.

Is your display 2160p? As in the image is not being down-scaled again to 1440p using catmull rom is it?
I was hoping to pick up a GTX 960 as an upgrade to my 7790 (basically a 1gB 260x), but from bcec's numbers it doesn't seem like it will be much of an upgrade.

Renethx showed 31.1ms with a Radeon R7 260X (post 491 of this thread) for this scenario below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec
chroma upscaling: bicubic75ar
image upscaling: bicubic75ar
image doubling: nnedi3 16
28ms
Stereodude is online now  
post #905 of 924 Old 02-21-2015, 12:26 PM
Member
 
bcec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonccyiu View Post
Sorry to be a pain and ask another question, thanks for your answers so far, how does the upscaling compare when you play 1080p and lower resolutions using your tv's internal media player and madvr using nnedi3@32/lanczos3ar and jinc3ar alone?
imo nnedi3@32+lanczos3ar is quite better than jinc3ar. A quality source like bray looks like 4K out of the box. I think people can argue that more than half the time, the difference between the two are subtle, but there are certain things where the difference is huge. For instance a close up of a person wearing eyeglasses, the eyeglass frame is perfect with nnedi3@32, but very aliased with jinc3ar.

hu8550 is doing a reasonably decent job in upscaling too, but overall the image is lacking the quality I get from madvr, even if I am only using jinc3ar alone. Having said that though, I am quite happy playing games at 1080p and relying on TV's upscaling. It allows me to set everything to max without chocking my 960, and still get good enough image quality close to true 4K output.
StinDaWg and leonccyiu like this.

Last edited by bcec; 02-21-2015 at 12:30 PM.
bcec is online now  
post #906 of 924 Old 02-21-2015, 04:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
jamieuk147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 11
is a 960 the best gc one could buy for use with Madvr?
jamieuk147 is offline  
post #907 of 924 Old 02-22-2015, 07:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
OzHDHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Antipodes aka Oz
Posts: 1,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post
is a 960 the best gc one could buy for use with Madvr?

That's a very open ended question. Best to start with what you're trying to achieve? What resolution are you running at 1080P, 4K? What material will you be viewing mainly, SD, HD 720P/1080P, etc. If you have no great interest in NNEDI3 for example then you won't have to worry about GPU processing power so much. A good rule of thumb these days is, buy a graphics as much graphics card as your budget will allow to suit your requirements. For example I'm heading towards getting 4K working again in 2 of my HTPC systems. So there's a fair chance I'll move from R290X to possibly all the way to GTX980, pending any new releases from AMD/ATI.

OzHDHT is offline  
post #908 of 924 Old 02-22-2015, 09:02 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,406
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post
is a 960 the best gc one could buy for use with Madvr?
In terms of shader performance for the dollar, no. It doesn't seem much more powerful than the 260x if you're after NNEDI3. However, it does have a full HW HEVC decoder.
Stereodude is online now  
post #909 of 924 Old 02-23-2015, 12:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
imo nnedi3@32+lanczos3ar is quite better than jinc3ar. A quality source like bray looks like 4K out of the box. I think people can argue that more than half the time, the difference between the two are subtle, but there are certain things where the difference is huge. For instance a close up of a person wearing eyeglasses, the eyeglass frame is perfect with nnedi3@32, but very aliased with jinc3ar.

hu8550 is doing a reasonably decent job in upscaling too, but overall the image is lacking the quality I get from madvr, even if I am only using jinc3ar alone. Having said that though, I am quite happy playing games at 1080p and relying on TV's upscaling. It allows me to set everything to max without chocking my 960, and still get good enough image quality close to true 4K output.
Thank you for your impressions, now I am looking forward to seeing a high quality 1080 source such as blu-ray up-scaled with nnedi3 onto a large high quality 4k tv. I personally think there is a big difference between jinc and nnedi3 although some have pointed out it can make vegetation and some natural scenes look artificial, and that spacing between objects can become inconsistent.

I've wondered how the upscalers of the 4k tv's compared to the madvr algorithms, the manufacturers have marketed their upscalers as producing near 4k quality from their upscalers but I don't agree with them. In the high end projectors forum, I think I saw on one of the posts on the sony vw1000es or vw500 4k projectors that they prefered nnedi3 over reality creation. I've seen LG's new "10 point" upscaler in action on the 65EC9700 briefly, not long enough though for any comparisons. If these tv's did have upscalers as good as jinc3ar or nnedi3@32 their power consumption would be far higher even if they have dedicated hardware. The marketing from tv manufacturers about their upscaing processes such as samsung using a motion adaptive system or sony using a database from their cinema arm sounds convincing, they even think its good enough to upscale a film using their algorithms for their uhd pack.

Some have said Jinc3ar rivals/is preferred to top end lumagen scalers. I guess for 50/60p content which the gtx960 or most mid-range graphics cards are unable to do with nnedi3 jinc3ar will still do well
leonccyiu is online now  
post #910 of 924 Old 02-23-2015, 04:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
jamieuk147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post
is a 960 the best gc one could buy for use with Madvr?

That's a very open ended question. Best to start with what you're trying to achieve? What resolution are you running at 1080P, 4K? What material will you be viewing mainly, SD, HD 720P/1080P, etc. If you have no great interest in NNEDI3 for example then you won't have to worry about GPU processing power so much. A good rule of thumb these days is, buy a graphics as much graphics card as your budget will allow to suit your requirements. For example I'm heading towards getting 4K working again in 2 of my HTPC systems. So there's a fair chance I'll move from R290X to possibly all the way to GTX980, pending any new releases from AMD/ATI.
Am looking to upscale 1080p to 4K to be played on my Sony Vw300es projector
jamieuk147 is offline  
post #911 of 924 Old 02-23-2015, 07:31 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post
Am looking to upscale 1080p to 4K to be played on my Sony Vw300es projector
It looks like you've bought your gtx960 already, well from the doom9 forum
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=28288
nvidia have released new drivers for those on windows 10 with added opencl 1.2 support.
Hopefully you might be able to squeeze a shorter render time for 1080p30 content using nnedi3@32 although it's tight.

I see you've bought it for the hardware hevc decoder. I would have waited as its unclear if VP9 is supported on the 960 and AMD's 300 series cards are being released soon.

Nonetheless the 960 is a decent card and doesn't run as hot.
Do you mind me asking where in the UK you live? I also live in the UK
leonccyiu is online now  
post #912 of 924 Old 02-23-2015, 09:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
OzHDHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Antipodes aka Oz
Posts: 1,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post
Am looking to upscale 1080p to 4K to be played on my Sony Vw300es projector
You then sound like you're in a very similar boat to me with Sony 4K projector and HTPC. for 4K I'd say you' be stretching the sh*t out of the 960 pretty fast if you are trying to get MADVR to do much at all in the way of NNEDI3 processing. Soon as I upgrade my 4K capabilities at AVP level in the next month or so, I'll doing some further testing and most likely looking an upgrade beyond my current best R290X to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

OzHDHT is offline  
post #913 of 924 Old 02-24-2015, 09:50 AM
Member
 
BlueChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 18
With my 970 and the maximum settings as matter madvr the pc burns on a movie with upscale to 4k... 970 goes at 80s celcius .. the mb to 45 and i7 4790k watercooled to 65... im thinking i need to watercool also the 970... and its winter here with the house at 20-21.. i cannot imagine what will huppened in summer
BlueChris is offline  
post #914 of 924 Old 02-24-2015, 06:19 PM
Newbie
 
sleeplesschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Lookin' for some advice:

I have a choice between 2 cheap cards just for temporary purposes. they are a gt 640 $30 and a hd 7750 $40.
I just need to upscale film/video from dvd to 1080p. i'm confused because it is general consensus that the 7750 is a better card and according to the (older) madvr charts earlier in the thread it performs better for all resolutions... except 1080p, where they both can do level 3 for video. if this is the case then i guess i should just take the gt 640 as it's 10 bucks cheaper and more energy efficient. thoughts?

(these are my only 2 options right now), thanks.
sleeplesschris is offline  
post #915 of 924 Old 02-25-2015, 10:27 AM
Member
 
MarsRup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeplesschris View Post
Lookin' for some advice:

I have a choice between 2 cheap cards just for temporary purposes. they are a gt 640 $30 and a hd 7750 $40.
I just need to upscale film/video from dvd to 1080p. i'm confused because it is general consensus that the 7750 is a better card and according to the (older) madvr charts earlier in the thread it performs better for all resolutions... except 1080p, where they both can do level 3 for video. if this is the case then i guess i should just take the gt 640 as it's 10 bucks cheaper and more energy efficient. thoughts?

(these are my only 2 options right now), thanks.
Not sure it gives exactly the info you're looking for, but this is a fun site for comparing cards. http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-77...GeForce-GT-640
MarsRup is offline  
post #916 of 924 Old 02-25-2015, 11:37 AM
Newbie
 
sleeplesschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsRup View Post
Not sure it gives exactly the info you're looking for, but this is a fun site for comparing cards. http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-77...GeForce-GT-640
Thanks for the reply, but that's not the info i need. i'm referring to this chart, which shows the hd7750 and gt640 performing equally at 1080p:
Click image for larger version

Name:	c49fc27d_madVRFHD.png
Views:	36
Size:	42.5 KB
ID:	567337

And here the hd7750 is way better:
Click image for larger version

Name:	de94e09c_61465.png
Views:	36
Size:	35.2 KB
ID:	567345

I guess what i'm asking is... should i be taking this 2nd chart into account? i don't understand anything about OpenCL performance and how it relates to madvr, and i'm not looking for a detailed technical explanation. i just want to know if this is important for my needs as described earlier. thanks.
sleeplesschris is offline  
post #917 of 924 Old 02-25-2015, 02:21 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeplesschris View Post
Thanks for the reply, but that's not the info i need. i'm referring to this chart, which shows the hd7750 and gt640 performing equally at 1080p:
Attachment 567337

And here the hd7750 is way better:
Attachment 567345

I guess what i'm asking is... should i be taking this 2nd chart into account? i don't understand anything about OpenCL performance and how it relates to madvr, and i'm not looking for a detailed technical explanation. i just want to know if this is important for my needs as described earlier. thanks.
OpenCL performance is with regards to Nnedi3, a very high quality scaling algorithm. Neither of these cards will be able to scale using the algorithm without dropped frames.

From the chart, for the other algorithms such as Jinc and lanczos, they are about equal.
If you have intel hd graphics, I'd recommend you use dxva scaling.
leonccyiu is online now  
post #918 of 924 Old 02-25-2015, 09:46 PM
Newbie
 
sleeplesschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonccyiu View Post
OpenCL performance is with regards to Nnedi3, a very high quality scaling algorithm. Neither of these cards will be able to scale using the algorithm without dropped frames.

From the chart, for the other algorithms such as Jinc and lanczos, they are about equal.
If you have intel hd graphics, I'd recommend you use dxva scaling.
Thanks, that's what i needed to know.
sleeplesschris is offline  
post #919 of 924 Old 02-26-2015, 07:53 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
With my 970 and the maximum settings as matter madvr the pc burns on a movie with upscale to 4k... 970 goes at 80s celcius .. the mb to 45 and i7 4790k watercooled to 65... im thinking i need to watercool also the 970... and its winter here with the house at 20-21.. i cannot imagine what will huppened in summer
Others on the madvr forum on doom9 have reported that their 970/980's run very hot with nnedi3
Do you mind me asking if you could be kind enough to provide some benchmarks like @bcec has
especially 1080p>2160p@nnedi3 32 chroma/upscale bicubic75ar
leonccyiu is online now  
post #920 of 924 Old 02-26-2015, 09:45 AM
Newbie
 
sleeplesschris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is there anywhere i can view these charts by renethx. he did a great job with those:
Click image for larger version

Name:	b69cce1e_madVRR7260X.PNG
Views:	36
Size:	33.2 KB
ID:	569921

i was hoping to do some card comparisons (power draw, rendering times, etc.)

thanks.
sleeplesschris is offline  
post #921 of 924 Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM
Member
 
Onkyoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just out of curiosity, could someone provide me with the specs and/or graphics card models that can do the following:

Input Resolutions: 720p, 1080p
Output Resolution: 3840 x 2160 (4K)

Desired Settings:
  • Chroma: Jinc3 + AR
  • Image: Jinc3 + AR
  • Luma Doubling: NNEDI364 at 2x scaling factor or greater
  • Artifact Removal - Debanding: Low/Medium
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 1

Smooth Motion is disabled.

What card(s) are capable of these settings (if any)?

Last edited by Onkyoman; Yesterday at 08:07 PM.
Onkyoman is offline  
post #922 of 924 Old Yesterday, 04:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,406
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked: 730
Is the Radeon 285 the equal of the 280 in madVR performance or not? This review at AnandTech shows the 285 trades blows with the 280 except for double precision floating point performance. I know madVR doesn't use double precision floating point math. However, I'm not sure that any of those benchmarks are close to representative of madVR (NNEDI3).
Stereodude is online now  
post #923 of 924 Old Today, 05:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Is the Radeon 285 the equal of the 280 in madVR performance or not? This review at AnandTech shows the 285 trades blows with the 280 except for double precision floating point performance. I know madVR doesn't use double precision floating point math. However, I'm not sure that any of those benchmarks are close to representative of madVR (NNEDI3).
I'd think they'd be pretty much equal. Do realize they use far more electricity than the nvidia 960 and don't have hdmi2 or hevc decoding. The 285 can decode 4k in h264 unlike the 280 though.

I am not sure about this but I think the 285 should be able to do 1080i to 2160p @nnedi3 16 neurons.
Or that might require at least a 280x
leonccyiu is online now  
post #924 of 924 Old Today, 07:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,406
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonccyiu View Post
I'd think they'd be pretty much equal. Do realize they use far more electricity than the nvidia 960 and don't have hdmi2 or hevc decoding. The 285 can decode 4k in h264 unlike the 280 though.

I am not sure about this but I think the 285 should be able to do 1080i to 2160p @nnedi3 16 neurons.
Or that might require at least a 280x
I don't have a UHD TV, just a FHD one. I realize AMD cards tend to consume more power. However, the GTX 960 doesn't seem to have a lot of shader power for madVR compared to the various AMD cards (based on the very limited madVR benchmarks available for the GTX 960). It's only bit faster than the 7790/260x per the render times.
Stereodude is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Home Theater Computers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off