Theory About Intel's HDMI Quantization Range Setting (Full 0-255) - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 206 Old 01-28-2014, 07:15 AM
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Can anybody please advise me what a typical/proper end-to-end config would be for the colour levels for my HTPC using Intel's HD4600 over HDMI?

Specifically to achieve true black and true white with standard consumer video sources, without colour banding issues.

 

MPC-HC:      Renderer output 0-255 or 16-235

Intel driver:   Quantisation range Limited (16-235) or Full (0-255)

HDMI level:   Force 0-255 or default 16-235

(Display:        Assuming should match the HDMI level)

 

I assumed making all these things match was the obvious way to go but doing so I either can't see test patterns properly or when configured for test patterns (0-255), I instead get colour banding issues when viewing 'normal' video.

:confused:

 

 

Here's some more detail of my problems if anyone cares enough!..

 

I've been trying to use the AVS HD test patterns and when playing the MP4 version of the black-clipping and white-clipping patterns in MPC-HC (or VLC) the only way I get BTB or WTW signals, in order to calibrate them out of visibility (!), is when I force the 0-255 output (with the registry entry).

 

But when I calibrate using forced 0-255, I have to do big brightness and contrast tweaks on my projector (also switched to 0-255) in order to get only reference black and reference white showing.

 

I thought that was the proper approach (- is it? -) until I then watched one of the actual normal video files I'm trying to calibrate for and I saw horrible banding noise/artifacts in the dark regions.

 

I'm simply trying to set basic black and white reference levels for H264 MKVs which I think are in the 4:2:0 colour format although admittedly I don't understand if that means they are 16-235, 0-255 or even if the 4:x:x notation has any correlation whatsoever to those levels!

(They are typical consumer video sources such as TV programmes - i.e. nothing unusual like Japanese animes with 10 bit colour!)

 

On the flip side, if I don't force 0-255 output over HDMI, I can't seem to get ANY of the dark levels in the test patterns to calibrate with, not even the 17-25 range!

 

Thank you for any clarity you can bring me!

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post #182 of 206 Old 01-28-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexs3d2 View Post

How do you use the "FakeEDID_%d_%d_%x_%x" registry key exactly? What I want to now, is what should the %d_%_d_%x_%x part point to? The rest I understand, including the EDID hexadecimal data. But it is this code after FakeEDID which I do not comprehend... I assume it has to do with the port, but how do I find out what that should be?

Thanks...

Ok.

Description of %x_%x part is simple: it is monitor id from EDID (two hex word's, first - manufacturer, second - model).

%d_%d part is not so clear, i still don't make sufficient research. Now I suppose: the first %d is adapter output id (in my case it is 2 - HDMI output at HD4000 laptop, but to find out that i simply generate same keys from 0 to 10), second %d shall be 0 for first part of EDID (first 128 bytes), 1 - for the second, etc. Value of this key(s) - binary 128 bytes of EDID. NOTE - this value MUST have correct checksum or driver will ignore override.

Here my example for my Samsung TV (which enable RGB Level Switch and define near exact 23.976, 29.97 and 59.94 DTD's).

 

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0000]
"ReadEDIDFromRegistry"=dword:00000001

 

"FakeEDID_2_0_2d4c_4fb"=hex: \
  00,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,00,\

  4c,2d,fb,04,\ ;<-------------- this is monitor id
  00,00,00,00,\
  2f,12,\

  01,03,\

  80,\
  58,32,\
  78,\
  0a,\

  ee,91,a3,54,4c,99,26,0f,50,54,\

  bd,ef,80,\

  71,4f,81,00,81,40,81,80,95,00,95,0f,b3,00,a9,40,\

  02,3A,80,0C,71,38,33,40,58,2C,45,00,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\
  02,3A,80,D0,72,38,2D,40,10,2C,45,80,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\

  00,00,00,fd,00,18,4b,1a,51,17,00,0a,20,20,20,20,20,20,\
  00,00,00,fc,00,53,41,4d,53,55,4e,47,0a,20,20,20,20,20,\
  01,\
  87

 

"FakeEDID_2_1_2d4c_4fb"=hex: \
  02,\
  03,\
  23,\
  f1,\

  4b,90,1f,04,13,05,14,03,12,20,21,22,\
  23,09,07,07,\
  83,01,00,00,\
  e2,00,4f,\
  67,03,0c,00,10,00,b8,2d,\

  01,1D,80,0C,71,38,33,40,58,2C,45,00,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\
  01,1D,80,D0,72,38,2D,40,10,2C,45,80,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\
  01,1D,80,40,73,38,2C,40,7E,2C,45,80,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\
  00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\

  00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
  18

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

"madLevelsTweaker.exe"

"madNvLevelsTweaker.exe" ;)

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post #183 of 206 Old 01-28-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post

Ok.
Description of %x_%x part is simple: it is monitor id from EDID (two hex word's, first - manufacturer, second - model).
%d_%d part is not so clear, i still don't make sufficient research. Now I suppose: the first %d is adapter output id (in my case it is 2 - HDMI output at HD4000 laptop, but to find out that i simply generate same keys from 0 to 10), second %d shall be 0 for first part of EDID (first 128 bytes), 1 - for the second, etc. Value of this key(s) - binary 128 bytes of EDID. NOTE - this value MUST have correct checksum or driver will ignore override.
Here my example for my Samsung TV (which enable RGB Level Switch and define near exact 23.976, 29.97 and 59.94 DTD's).

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0000]

"ReadEDIDFromRegistry"=dword:00000001

"FakeEDID_2_0_2d4c_4fb"=hex: \

  00,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,ff,00,\
  4c,2d,fb,04,\ ;<
this is monitor id

  00,00,00,00,\

  2f,12,\
  01,03,\
  80,\

  58,32,\

  78,\

  0a,\
  ee,91,a3,54,4c,99,26,0f,50,54,\
  bd,ef,80,\
  71,4f,81,00,81,40,81,80,95,00,95,0f,b3,00,a9,40,\
  02,3A,80,0C,71,38,33,40,58,2C,45,00,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\

  02,3A,80,D0,72,38,2D,40,10,2C,45,80,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\
  00,00,00,fd,00,18,4b,1a,51,17,00,0a,20,20,20,20,20,20,\

  00,00,00,fc,00,53,41,4d,53,55,4e,47,0a,20,20,20,20,20,\

  01,\

  87

"FakeEDID_2_1_2d4c_4fb"=hex: \

  02,\

  03,\

  23,\

  f1,\
  4b,90,1f,04,13,05,14,03,12,20,21,22,\

  23,09,07,07,\

  83,01,00,00,\

  e2,00,4f,\

  67,03,0c,00,10,00,b8,2d,\
  01,1D,80,0C,71,38,33,40,58,2C,45,00,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\

  01,1D,80,D0,72,38,2D,40,10,2C,45,80,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\

  01,1D,80,40,73,38,2C,40,7E,2C,45,80,00,00,00,00,00,1E,\

  00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\
  00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\

  18


"madNvLevelsTweaker.exe" wink.gif

WOW!!!! Great information and it actually worked!!! Now my Samsung TV reports all encoded audio formats!!! Just a question though, since you now this hex staff so well: Why do you reverse the model and brand bytes? is there a particular programming reason for that?

Btw, I have intel 4400 on a Yoga 2 Pro, but the settings are as you described. So I put FakeEDID_2_1_2d4c_509 for a Samsung UE40B7000.

I spent days trying to find a way to make EDID work on my laptop... Thanks!!!
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post #184 of 206 Old 01-28-2014, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexs3d2 View Post


Just a question though, since you now this hex staff so well: Why do you reverse the model and brand bytes? is there a particular programming reason for that?

Yes. Little endian format.

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post #185 of 206 Old 04-17-2014, 08:22 AM
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Hola, SweetLow.

Sorry about this post for not being on topic...

I have handshake issues between my Intel I3 540, my Denon 2312CI and LG TV not recognizing DTS-HD, TrueHD nor 192 Khz so I can not use them.

Can I use the "ReadEDIDFromRegistry" and "FakeEDID" for audio capabilities overwriting the EDID to finally have HD audio?

Gracias.
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post #186 of 206 Old 04-18-2014, 01:46 AM
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Quote:

Originally Posted by watanave View Post

Can I use the "ReadEDIDFromRegistry" and "FakeEDID" for audio capabilities overwriting the EDID to finally have HD audio?

 

Yes. It's generic patch with common target - like MS EDID override, but Intel specific. And I already wrote this info above.

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post #187 of 206 Old 04-20-2014, 04:50 AM
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Absolutely brilliant thread. Have learnt so much. Have never been 100% happy with my calibration via HTPC and this has cleared a few things up.

I had always read and thought that YCbCr on was the way to go for Bluray sourced material. That's true for Bluray players but not so for PC's. Stick to RGB as that's native GPU. YCbCr is not native and has to be converted - didn't realise that. Am now seeing black level 17 where previously no way jose.

Intel do seem to have sorted their drivers out. Would be nice if they allowed the Quantization setting regardless of what the TV EDID says. My Samsunf 55F8000 doesnt have it set (moninfo) so I did the registry thing and hey presto ..... Full Range RGB

My settings are now :
Renderer (full) -> Intel HD Input (full) -> Intel HD Output (full) -> Samsung (full)

The only problem I am having is with XBMC (Gotham). No matter what setting I use I get Grayscale banding and slightly reduced black levels compared to MPC-HC/MadVR and VLC. Those plus Raspbmc are perfect on grayscale and black levels (AVS HD mp4 patterns). Been posting on XBMC forum but not much joy yet :

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=179163&pid=1685112#pid1685112
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=184998&pid=1686682#pid1686682

Also does anyone know what Intel setting 'IT Content' does? Been googling but none the wiser.
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post #188 of 206 Old 04-20-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post

Quote:
Yes. It's generic patch with common target - like MS EDID override, but Intel specific. And I already wrote this info above.

SweetLow,

I'd been trying to figure out how to do it, but I couldn't. I'm not a "computer" person.

Can you help me to override the EDID? This in what Moninfo reports of my I3 - 540 --> Denon 2312CI --> LG TV installation.

The funny thing is that the report shows HD audio capabilities, but windows doesn't.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Monitor
Model name............... DENON-AVAMP
Manufacturer............. Denon
Plug and Play ID......... DON0028
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2011, ISO week 0
Filter driver............ None
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 1150 x 650 mm (52,0 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2,50
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0,640 - Ry 0,340
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0,300 - Gy 0,690
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0,138 - By 0,038
White point (default).... Wx 0,282 - Wy 0,297
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 30-80kHz
Vertical scan range...... 56-62Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 170MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 138,500 1920 1968 2000 2080 1080 1083 1088 1111 +hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1360x768p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1360x768" 85,500 1360 1424 1536 1792 768 771 777 795 +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
720 x 400p at 70Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600p at 56Hz - VESA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
640 x 480p at 60Hz - VESA STD
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA STD
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA STD
1280 x 1024p at 60Hz - VESA STD
1600 x 1200p at 60Hz - VESA STD

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
IT underscan............. Supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 1
Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74,250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74,250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27,000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 720x480p at 60Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27,000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1440 x 480p at 60Hz - DVD (4:3, 4:9)
2880 x 480p at 60Hz - Console (4:3, 2:9)
1440 x 480p at 60Hz - DVD (16:9, 16:27)
2880 x 480p at 60Hz - Console (16:9, 8:27)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 8-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
DTS 6-channel, 1536k max. bit rate at 44/48/88/96 kHz
AC-3 6-channel, 640k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz
DTS-HD 8-channel, 16-bit at 44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
DD+ 8-channel at 44/48 kHz
DVD-A 8-channel at 44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
Channel configuration.... 7.1
Front left/right......... Yes
Front LFE................ Yes
Front center............. Yes
Rear left/right.......... Yes
Rear center.............. Yes
Front left/right center.. No
Rear left/right center... Yes
Rear LFE................. No

CE colorimetry data
xvYCC709 support......... Yes
xvYCC601 support......... Yes
sYCC601 support.......... No
AdobeYCC601 support...... No
AdobeRGB support......... No
Metadata profile flags... 0x01

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 3.1.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
Supports 48bpp........... No
Supports 36bpp........... Yes
Supports 30bpp........... Yes
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
Supports dual-link DVI... No
Maximum TMDS clock....... 225MHz

Report information
Date generated........... 20/04/2014
Software revision........ 2.80.0.994
Data source.............. Real-time 0x0031
Operating system......... 6.1.7601.2.Service Pack 1

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,11,EE,28,00,01,01,01,01,00,15,01,03,80,73,41,96,0A,CF,74,A3,57,4C,B0,23,
09,48,4C,A3,08,00,31,40,45,40,61,40,81,80,A9,40,01,01,01,01,01,01,1A,36,80,A0,70,38,1F,40,30,20,
35,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,1A,66,21,50,B0,51,00,1B,30,40,70,36,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,1E,00,00,00,FD,00,38,
3E,1E,50,11,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,44,45,4E,4F,4E,2D,41,56,41,4D,50,0A,20,01,A7,
02,03,34,F1,4C,84,05,03,02,20,22,10,1F,0E,23,0F,24,32,0F,7F,07,3D,1E,C0,15,07,50,5F,7E,01,57,06,
00,67,7E,00,83,5F,00,00,E3,05,03,01,67,03,0C,00,31,00,B8,2D,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,6E,28,55,00,
C4,8E,21,00,00,1E,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,9E,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,
10,3E,96,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,18,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10,3E,96,00,13,8E,21,00,00,18,00,00,00,3A
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post #189 of 206 Old 04-21-2014, 07:33 AM
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post
 

>Also does anyone know what Intel setting 'IT Content' does?

:) HDMI specs "IT Content" flag is set On in video stream.

 

CEA-861:
"In IT applications (e.g. involving bit mapped text), each pixel in the source’s frame buffer is most clearly

displayed if it is directly mapped to a light-emitting pixel on the display device - such that adjacent pixels
are completely independent and do not interact. The IT content bit indicates when picture content is
composed according to common IT practice (i.e. without regard to Nyquist criterion) and is unsuitable for
analog reconstruction or filtering. When the IT content bit is set to 1, downstream processors should pass
pixel data unfiltered and without analog reconstruction."

 

HDMI Sink must make so little work with input video stream as possible (off all "video enhancers"/"video processing") upon receive of  this flag set On. But what is ACTUALLY does - only firmware developers know  :)

 

>Would be nice if they allowed the Quantization setting regardless of what the TV EDID says.

Dura Lex Sed Lex (С)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by watanave View Post

The funny thing is that the report shows HD audio capabilities, but windows doesn't.

But why you think this problem can be fixed by EDID Override???

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post #190 of 206 Old 04-21-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post

Quote:
But why you think this problem can be fixed by EDID Override???

Thank you, SweetLow.

Because there are multiples threads about how to override the EDID so you can force HD audio when Windows doesn't recognize them, but none of them applies to Intel. So when I see your post about "ReadEDIDFromRegistry" and "FakeEDID" I thought it may help to my handshake problems.
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post #191 of 206 Old 04-21-2014, 10:52 PM
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Thanks Sweetlow.

I guess IT Content should be enabled then for 1080 vids as its direct 1-1 pixel mapping?
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post #192 of 206 Old 04-22-2014, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watanave View Post


Because there are multiples threads about how to override the EDID

But this is need only when EDID is incorrect - and this is not your case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mombasa123 View Post

I guess IT Content should be enabled then for 1080 vids as its direct 1-1 pixel mapping?

Yes, but not only for 1080 vids. I personally prefer to set this flag On and make video processing on PC side with madVR.

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post #193 of 206 Old 04-22-2014, 02:10 AM
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Understood.

Sadly I am using XBMC which is not quite as good as MadVR on playback (awesome for everything else tho). Going to look into using MPC-HC/MadVR as external player but I will lose the XBMC HUD frown.gif

BTW. I have hw decoding on MadVR set to Intel QuickSync rather than DXVA.
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post #194 of 206 Old 04-28-2014, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post


Anyone, who want FullRange RGB HDMI output on Intel Graphic may try this:
1. Find your current Intel Graphic Adapter software registry instance under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\xxxx
(0000 on my PC).
2.Create DWORD value:

EnableRGBFullRange
and set it to 1
3. Reboot.
4. Enjoy.

Greetings, I haven't touched my Intel drivers since last year when I did the above registry "hack"... well because the registry hack has worked so well for so long :-)

But I think it is getting time again to soon update my Intel drivers so I am wondering if I still need keep the above hack in my registry or can I delete it now and then install the newest Intel drivers. And if the newer (newest) Intel drivers have a setting to output the full RGB range, unlike before. And if so, what that new setting is so I can be sure to enable it so I don't run into fullrangeRGB problems again. Thanks much....
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post #195 of 206 Old 04-28-2014, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyxoxo View Post


Greetings, I haven't touched my Intel drivers since last year when I did the above registry "hack"... well because the registry hack has worked so well for so long :-)

But I think it is getting time again to soon update my Intel drivers so I am wondering if I still need keep the above hack in my registry or can I delete it now and then install the newest Intel drivers. And if the newer (newest) Intel drivers have a setting to output the full RGB range, unlike before. And if so, what that new setting is so I can be sure to enable it so I don't run into fullrangeRGB problems again. Thanks much....

Read above - all is already discussed.

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post #196 of 206 Old 05-11-2014, 01:12 AM
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This issue has been driving me mad.

 

I have just set up an Intel Haswell Core i3 NUC (HD Graphics 4400) with a Sony KDL-46W905A and and Onkyo AVR. The TV is set to Full Range.

I just found out about this Quantization Range setting, and when I set it to Full Range, my TV screen became "brighter" or more "contrasty" (as someone in this thread said).

 

But for some reason I'm seeing a washed out image in MPC-HC (using LAV), but the image seems fine in VLC.

Before setting the Quantization Range setting, it was actually the other way around... VLC is set to use hardware acceleration and hardware YUV->RGB conversion.

 

Here's a screenshot of both players side by side (MPC-HC left, VLC right): http://i.imgur.com/9pfiCqb.jpg

Here's a screenshot of my LAV filter video settings in MPC-HC: http://i.imgur.com/YsnZV6e.png

 

Here's my MonInfo output (it seems OK): http://pastebin.com/jnP1STDk

 

Is there an actual way for me to test whether my desktop and any of my media players are actually outputting in the correct format?

I looked at a test chart posted previously using the Windows image viewer: http://www.belle-nuit.com/site/files/testchart.tif and it seemed to display the blacker-than-black bars even if I set the quantization range to Limited, so I don't think the test is working :/.

 

Maybe there's a proper video test pattern I can play to definitively test this?

 

Any help would be appreciated!

 

I'm using Windows 8.1, btw.

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post #197 of 206 Old 05-11-2014, 09:05 AM
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I have an update!

 

Apparently, by unchecking everything except RGB32 and RGB24 in the LAV video decoder settings seemed to have fixed the problem in MPC-HC.

Now when I compare the same frames side-by-side they look almost the same... although the VLC one is still a tad darker, but barely noticeable.

 

Has anyone experienced similar issues with this Intel hardware?

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post #198 of 206 Old 05-11-2014, 09:09 AM
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Levels heavily depend on the video renderer used. In the MPC-HC renderer settings you can switch between 0-255 and 16-235 output, but it doesn't work for all renderers, and might also only work on certain GPUs, OSs and drivers. If you want to bypass these problems, you could have a look at madVR where the output levels are a bit more reliable. But of course I'm biased, so take my comment with a pinch of salt...
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post #199 of 206 Old 05-11-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Levels heavily depend on the video renderer used. In the MPC-HC renderer settings you can switch between 0-255 and 16-235 output, but it doesn't work for all renderers, and might also only work on certain GPUs, OSs and drivers. If you want to bypass these problems, you could have a look at madVR where the output levels are a bit more reliable. But of course I'm biased, so take my comment with a pinch of salt...

 

I see. I will give it a try in the coming days.

 

By the way, you previously said that you recommend running in RGB Full everywhere (TV/GPU driver/Video Player). Now, I understand why RGB Full may be great for my desktop, but if most of what I do on my HTPC is watching movies and TV why isn't using Limited RGB everywhere a better choice?

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post #200 of 206 Old 05-11-2014, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikevm View Post

I see. I will give it a try in the coming days.

By the way, you previously said that you recommend running in RGB Full everywhere (TV/GPU driver/Video Player). Now, I understand why RGB Full may be great for my desktop, but if most of what I do on my HTPC is watching movies and TV why isn't using Limited RGB everywhere a better choice?
"Limited RGB everywhere" is open to interpretation. As mentioned before, Windows itself "thinks" in full range. Everytime you switch anything to limited range in the HTPC, practically you're stretching the image from 0-255 to 16-235. Which means that if you set both the GPU control panel and the video renderer to 16-235, it could happen that the content gets double stretched. So black/white will be at 30-218 instead of 16-235, which means that black is becoming dark gray and white is becoming light gray. So you gotta be careful with limited range, to avoid double stretching. But it depends on the video renderer. Double stretching might not happen with all video renderers. But it also depends on the OS, the GPU manufacturer and the GPU driver. Using full range everywhere makes the output levels less dependent on the OS, GPU etc.

If you want your HTPC to ultimately output limited range you have to set "something" to limited range. Either the GPU control panel or the video renderer. If you set the GPU control panel to limited range, the GPU driver will stretch everything from 0-255 to 16-235 behind the back of Windows, usually in 8bit without using dithering. This will likely introduce banding artifacts. So that's the key reason why I don't recommend this approach. If you instead leave the GPU control panel to 0-255, the GPU driver will leave the pixels untouched. Now you can switch the video renderer to limited range. This has a better chance of avoiding banding artifacts. However, the Windows desktop and games will be output as 0-255, while the video will be output as 16-235. So for desktop and games, you'll get black/white crush. So as you can see, both solutions to output limited range from your HTPC come with their own problems. Which is why I recommend outputting full range. However, outputting full range of course only makes sense if your receiver/display support that properly.
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post #201 of 206 Old 07-09-2014, 09:02 PM
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I noticed tonight that the blacks from my HTPC (bay trail igp, latest driver) are washed out regardless of whether I choose "limited" of "full" in the driver settings, *unless* I set my Samsung set to HDMI Low. With HDMI Normal there is no way to get past a dark gray color! Is that indicative that I'm suffering from the issue described here?
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post #202 of 206 Old 07-09-2014, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
I noticed tonight that the blacks from my HTPC (bay trail igp, latest driver) are washed out regardless of whether I choose "limited" of "full" in the driver settings, *unless* I set my Samsung set to HDMI Low. With HDMI Normal there is no way to get past a dark gray color! Is that indicative that I'm suffering from the issue described here?
Yes. Read this post for a quick fix.
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post #203 of 206 Old 07-10-2014, 06:48 AM
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Yes. Read this post for a quick fix.
Thanks much, I had seen that tool but forgot about it -- I guess I incorrectly assumed that Intel had fixed the issue since they had the options available in the GUI! They need to task some software developers that know a thing or two about displays and content to the drivers team.

I'll give that tweak a shot tonight and hope that I don't forget about it if I run into this again
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post #204 of 206 Old 08-13-2014, 11:55 PM
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Using windows 7 and a system that utilizes the intel 4600 video, how or what should I adjust to achieve video level and not PC level output to the HDMI output.

I built a PC for the purposes of calibration only and am not sure that I'm getting video level output.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #205 of 206 Old Yesterday, 08:25 PM
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I also have an older Panasonic Plasma that can only accept limited range HDMI RGB input. I have just upgraded my HTPC to an Intel D54250 NUC and would really like to get clean decoding in Windows Media Center. Currently the black levels are all ok (the NUC is outputing limited range HDMI fine) but I get the quantisation (banding) in skin tones etc. I need to get all stages in the decoder etc processing for limited range HDMI. Any info/assistance anyone can provide on how to achieve this would be much appreciated!

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mark@sigma.com.au
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post #206 of 206 Old Yesterday, 11:28 PM
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@Mark , you need to force the GPU to PC levels, and then try to find a way to get Windows Media Center to render TV levels. That should get rid of the banding problems. However, I'm not sure if there's an output levels option in Windows Media Center. If not you might have a problem.
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