Intel 4770k/4600 video issue - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:08 AM
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If the only DVI port of the display is already used, a simple HDMI switch should be a solution for multiple sources.

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Old 07-15-2013, 12:07 PM
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It's not the end of the world. It is just a matter of inconvenience. Even though I have spare HDMI switch and cables, I wouldn't bother doing it this way. Too much hassle. It's the annoying limitation of Intel IGP and that's about it.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:10 PM
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I just used a video card with multiple display port and DVI.

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Old 07-15-2013, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I just used a video card with multiple display port and DVI.
You can't do that with a laptop;)
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:20 PM
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Lol. True.

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Old 07-17-2013, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

If your monitor talks to the GPU properly it should identify it as a monitor and switch to PC mode, which always used full RGB for me, even over HDMI. But I've since switched to DisplayPort since my new board has that.

Just curious what you mean by the above. You have an HDMI connected monitor that displays full-range RGB on an Intel iGPU? What monitor? Can you attach the edid block?
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

So some PC monitors support only Full Range RGB, but Intel GPU recognizes it as a HDTV somehow when the HDMI port of the monitor is used, hence sends Limited Range RGB and dark ares are washed out, right? Hmm, that's a serious problem if you can't use the DVI port of the monitor. But why can't you use the DVI port of the monitor at all?

There are some budget monitors which don't even have DVI. Just VGA and HDMI - and both inputs expect full-range RGB. I've got some crappy 1080p ViewSonic at work that's like that. With my Nvidia GPU, I had to hack the registry to get full-range RGB over HDMI on this monitor. Intel you're SOL.

At least this is purely a software issue (since it works fine in Linux and Macs on same iGPU). We can hold out hope they will someday issue a driver option for advanced users.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:35 PM
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Several PC monitors support both full and limited range RGB with HDMI IN (and only full range with DVI IN). EIZO, LG, for example.

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Old 07-18-2013, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Just curious what you mean by the above. You have an HDMI connected monitor that displays full-range RGB on an Intel iGPU? What monitor? Can you attach the edid block?

Its a Dell U2410. Granted, it uses 1920x1200, which may influence this behaviour as its not a typical HDTV resolution - but i also would never buy a 1920x1080 PC screen as long as i have a choice in the matter.
Like i said, i switched to DisplayPort now, and i don't feel like crawling behind my desk again just to grab an EDID block, sorry. tongue.gif
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:18 AM
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Same. +1

I have a 1200x1920 26" - and I'm using a mono price brand display port to HDMI cable and now running the display port output. No issues.

My monitor is too old to have display port frown.gif

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Old 07-18-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'm using a mono price brand display port to HDMI cable and now running the display port output.

Active or passive?

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Old 07-18-2013, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Active or passive?


This :


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Old 07-18-2013, 06:44 AM
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Picture does not tell if it is active or passive. smile.gif How much is it?

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Old 07-18-2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Picture does not tell if it is active or passive. smile.gif How much is it?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10246&cs_id=1024603&p_id=9475&seq=1&format=2

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Old 07-18-2013, 08:20 AM
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So a passive one is enough. I am asking this because a passive adapter actually sends TMDS (i.e. HDMI) signals over the DP port. In other words,

DP with a passive DP-HDMI adapter = HDMI = DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter.

DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter does not work, but DP with a passive DP-HDMI adapter works. Interesting.

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Old 07-18-2013, 09:56 AM
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Clarification : I'm using display port from my GPU and not mobo

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Old 07-18-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Several PC monitors support both full and limited range RGB with HDMI IN (and only full range with DVI IN). EIZO, LG, for example.

Something to check for, some TVs also have a "DVI-esque" HDMI port.

I know on my vizio 55" HDMI3 is different than all the other ports, listed as HDMI/DVI in the menu and the display is detected as different by windows on there. Oddly enough, its not the port on the side but along the bottom in a group of 4.

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Old 07-18-2013, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Its a Dell U2410. Granted, it uses 1920x1200, which may influence this behaviour as its not a typical HDTV resolution - but i also would never buy a 1920x1080 PC screen as long as i have a choice in the matter.
Like i said, i switched to DisplayPort now, and i don't feel like crawling behind my desk again just to grab an EDID block, sorry. tongue.gif

No need. 1920x1200 says it all. The Intel problem only exists on HDTV formats. I would not buy a 1080p monitor either but I can't control the buying decisions of my boss at work. rolleyes.gif

What's really idiotic is monitor manufacturers (even large ones like Viewsonic) expecting full-range RGB 1920x1080 signals on their HDMI inputs. This is totally against the HDMI spec and there is no way to change it through any monitor settings. Luckily Nvidia and ATI have a work-around.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:29 AM
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1920x1080 monitors are the main stream right now so you can really get a very cheap price on them. For example, my HP 23xi is a 23" IPS 1080p monitor for $150. You really can't get any IPS monitors for that cheap.

HDMI does not prohibit the use of full-range RGB. The preferred format on HDMI is YCbCr which mandates limited-range. RGB on the other hand can be either limited or full range although on most HDTVs, it is default to limited range.

These cheap PC monitors lacks the proper hardware to support either YCbCr or limited range RGB (that probably add another $10 or so to the already razor-thin profit margin).
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

So a passive one is enough. I am asking this because a passive adapter actually sends TMDS (i.e. HDMI) signals over the DP port. In other words,

DP with a passive DP-HDMI adapter = HDMI = DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter.

DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter does not work, but DP with a passive DP-HDMI adapter works. Interesting.

I tested with Haswell iGPU.

- DP --> a passive DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Limited Range RGB.
- DP --> an active DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Full Range RGB

So if your monitor does not have a DVI IN, then you can still send Full Range RGB to HDMI IN if your mb has a DP port. Unfortunately an active DP-HDMI adapter is a bit expensive, ~$25 or more.

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Old 07-19-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I tested with Haswell iGPU.

- DP --> a passive DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Limited Range RGB.
- DP --> an active DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Full Range RGB

So if your monitor does not have a DVI IN, then you can still send Full Range RGB to HDMI IN if your mb has a DP port. Unfortunately an active DP-HDMI adapter is a bit expensive, ~$25 or more.

For $25 I'll buy a GPU tongue.gif

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Old 07-19-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I tested with Haswell iGPU.

- DP --> a passive DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Limited Range RGB.
- DP --> an active DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Full Range RGB

So if your monitor does not have a DVI IN, then you can still send Full Range RGB to HDMI IN if your mb has a DP port. Unfortunately an active DP-HDMI adapter is a bit expensive, ~$25 or more.

Awesome! Thanks for the research.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:27 PM
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Since it is HTPC forum, it is important to note that if you are using your PC to watch cable TVs in WMC, display port is not recognized as being a certified secure connection (HDCP) and your PC will not pass Digital Cable Advisor.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I tested with Haswell iGPU.

- DP --> a passive DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Limited Range RGB.
- DP --> an active DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Full Range RGB

So if your monitor does not have a DVI IN, then you can still send Full Range RGB to HDMI IN if your mb has a DP port. Unfortunately an active DP-HDMI adapter is a bit expensive, ~$25 or more.

For $25 I'll buy a GPU tongue.gif

With a $25 GPU, you can't do even Lanczos upscaling for video contents. smile.gif

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Old 07-19-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Since it is HTPC forum, it is important to note that if you are using your PC to watch cable TVs in WMC, display port is not recognized as being a certified secure connection (HDCP) and your PC will not pass Digital Cable Advisor.

DisplayPort (at least Intel's) supports HDCP, so I can play with BD movies with PowerDVD (without AnyDVD / Passkey) even if I use an active DP-HDMI adapter, all of which I know of also support HDCP.

It looks like that that's a problem of the specific device, that should be addressed to the device vendor.

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Old 07-19-2013, 08:33 PM
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I know displayport supports hdcp. Please see this kb published by Microsoft http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2392252/en-us
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I tested with Haswell iGPU.

- DP --> a passive DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Limited Range RGB.
- DP --> an active DP-HDMI adapter --> HDMI IN: iGPU sends Full Range RGB

So if your monitor does not have a DVI IN, then you can still send Full Range RGB to HDMI IN if your mb has a DP port. Unfortunately an active DP-HDMI adapter is a bit expensive, ~$25 or more.

Interesting. Does the active DP-HDMI adapter also pass audio while sending full-range RGB? Including HD surround audio?

I wonder if the iGPU is really sending full-range or if it's being expanded by the "active" adapter. Depends on what "active" actually means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

With a $25 GPU, you can't do even Lanczos upscaling for video contents. smile.gif

Even a crappy $25 ATI 6450 would have performance on par with an iGPU and allow full HDMI format control.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Interesting. Does the active DP-HDMI adapter also pass audio while sending full-range RGB? Including HD surround audio?

I wonder if the iGPU is really sending full-range or if it's being expanded by the "active" adapter. Depends on what "active" actually means

DisplayPort and HDMI are generally incompatible, unlike HDMI and DVI which really is just the same signal with another plug.
With a passive DP->HDMI/DVI adapter, the GPU figures out that you're using such an adapter, and outputs HDMI/DVI information over the DisplayPort connection.

With an active adapter, the GPU outputs native DisplayPort information, which generally is always full-range RGB as its meant for PC monitors, and the adapter changes the signal to be a DVI/HDMI signal.
So yes, the GPU outputs full-range RGB, there is no expansion in the adapter. If this works with HD audio streaming, probably depends on the adapter i would guess, but i wouldn't recommend it for a HTPC setup where you need this audio, only for connecting PC monitors.
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Interesting. Does the active DP-HDMI adapter also pass audio while sending full-range RGB? Including HD surround audio?

I wonder if the iGPU is really sending full-range or if it's being expanded by the "active" adapter. Depends on what "active" actually means.
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

With a $25 GPU, you can't do even Lanczos upscaling for video contents. smile.gif

Even a crappy $25 ATI 6450 would have performance on par with an iGPU and allow full HDMI format control.

First,

- Active adapter includes a DP-HDMI converter chip. The DP port sends DP signals and the chip converts them to TMDS (i.e. HDMI) signals.
- Passive adapter simply tells the DP port to send TMDS signals. DP with a passive adapter is identical with HDMI.

Yes, an active adapter supports audio. But it looks like audio formats supported depends on the chip inside the adapter. The adapter I have supports DD, DTS, multichannel LPCM, but does not support TrueHD or DTS-HD. It does not support HDMI 1.4a 3D video format either. Well, DP supports TrueHD / DTS-HD in theory, but as there is no AVR supporting DP, we always have to use an active adapter so that we never know what's the limiting factor.

DP supports various color spaces according to the specs, but primarily full-range RGB.

Limitation of HD 6450. It could do Lanczos scaling implemented in, e.g. ffdshow, under EVR, but shader units are scanty.

HD 6450: 200 GFLOPS
HD 6570: 624 GFLOPS
HD 7770: 1280 GFLOPS

GT 610/520: 156 GFLOPS
GT 430: 269 GFLOPS
GT 640: 691 GFLOPS
GTX 650: 813 GFLOPS
GTX 650 Ti: 1421 GFLOPS

Intel HD Graphics 4600: 432 GFLOPS (Well, DXVA2 with Intel's own scaling algorithms is preferred, so FLOPS does not matter in this case.)

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Old 07-20-2013, 08:51 AM
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