Help! Swapping old VGA graphics card for new with HDMI output. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-01-2013, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi. I have and old Acer Veriton M275 desktop that I want to hook up to my AVR via HDMI. It only supports VGA out and 3.5 mm audio out and it runs the Realtek HD Audio driver. My first thought was to buy an adapter which would couple the audio and video signals into HDMI. However, 3.5 mm only supports stereo audio and I'm sure I'd run into video support issues too. It seems that I'm left with one option, to install a new GPU with HDMI out. I have a few questions about this:

- What are some cheap, reputable cards that support audio through HDMI? (ATI Radeon HD 5570 for instance)
- Do I need to re-route the audio signal from somewhere else to run it through the GPU's HDMI?
- If so, are my other components able to support audio through a GPU or would the Veriton M275 motherboard be incompatible?
- Will I be installing drivers that will tell windows to re-route audio?
- Is this going to be more work than I could handle?

Any advice/insight is appreciated. I'm hoping to get this resolved before Monday next week as I just ordered some Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's and am wanting to test them with my pc. Thank you!
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post #2 of 17 Old 07-01-2013, 05:50 PM
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Once you install a GPU that supports HD audio, windows recognizes it as a soundcard (after installing drivers). All you need to do is set up the GPU as the default audio device in the sound control panel. Then all audio is routed to the HDMI port.
You also need to install the latest drivers from either AMD or nvidia, depending on the card you're using.
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post #3 of 17 Old 07-01-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Will I need to physically re-route audio as well? Like from the motherboard to the GPU? Do you have any suggestions for cards? I've got 75 max to spend but would like to spend around 50. I've found some but the articles/reviews are dated and the product is either discontinued or not up to current standards. I know there are plenty of cards that can do this for under 50 but I have some criteria that needs to be met.

- Can support all video and audio ( not 3D)
- Preferably a full sized HDMI port
- Maybe some nice feature it has over the competition?

Sorry for being such a noob..
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post #4 of 17 Old 07-01-2013, 06:20 PM
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No need to re-route any audio cables. That was needed for older GPUs that didn't have an audio controller. Modern gpus today have an audio controller built in so it can output audio.
I don't know what's best right now for htpc use so someone else will need to answer that.
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-01-2013, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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okay. what about pci-express? I think my computer has version 1.1 when many GPU's require 2.1+. Is that something that will be installed? Also, many graphics cards require a 400+ watt power supply. Mine is only 250. is that a big issue?
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-01-2013, 09:54 PM
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Pcie 2.1 and up are backwards compatible so it will work fine with an older version like 1.1. The PSU requirements listed by gpu manufacturers are over exaggerated, better to be safe than sorry. Google some GPU reviews and most likely will have a graph showing idle power consumption and max power draw. If a GPU does not require a 6pin power connector then it uses less than 75w.
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post #7 of 17 Old 07-01-2013, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 12:44 AM
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NADA on the HD 5570 video card your stock power supply won't handle it no way!

HD 5570 needs extra 12v rail connctors it wont work on PCI bus power at all unless you put a bigger p/s with aux 12v rail connectors into your box .

HD 5570 uses 150-200 watts all by itself and the stock power supply in your computer is only 250 watts .

You would need at least a 5-600 watt power supply. While the HD 5570 might be a decent entry level game card it is way overkill for HD video.



For HD Video /HTPC /casual gaming a low powered fan less AMD/ATI based HD6450 1 MB 64 bit pcie 2.1 card will be more than enough for HD video and sound with HDMI output ,they will be quiet and only consume 17-25 watts depending on what it is doing so your internal 250 watt power supply will run it fine and does not require any additional power connectors .
HD 6450 runs fine from the PCIE slot power.PCIE 2.1 is backwards compatible with PCIE2.0 since you have a mini tower a low profile bracket shouldn't be needed but most 6450 cards include them .The HD 6450 is a popular HT video card. they go for $25-$35.00


If your Acer Veriton M275 has the usual Intel E6700 chip that's plenty for HD
and can play some light games .


OTOH if you are a gamer and want to try HD 5570 it is much better at games than a 6450
You could only do that if you also put in a 5-600 watt or more watt power supply then it would work.
but for anything other than games you would see no difference. If you don't plan to game on this box then for sure a 6450 will more than work.
The HD 5570 is probably overkill for the e6700 CPU it would be happier with an i3/i5/i7 CPU

I put a HD6450 in an an HP Slimline 4 core AMD box with a stock 220w power supply it runs fine.
My Sapphire HD6450 1 MB runs a PC monitor and bedroom TV set. it adds independent screen support and as a bonus upscales DVD's very well .It is way better than the on board video was.
it will run the TV and PC monitor in two different windows doing different things at the same time .it can support up to 3 monitors independently but no SLI.


I use a PS3 on the HT set up it has excellent video processing and DVD upscale the 6450 holds it's own with it at..........at least for DVD up scale and movies. BD and gaming are PS3 territory. Nothing like gaming on a 55" plasma unless it's something bigger.

Search You Tube for a video such as "installing a video card in a PC with on board video"
or just "installing a video card in a PC "
it's not hard .

You will have to uninstall your on board video drivers in Device MGR then power down unplug it and install the new card

If you get an AMD/Radeon based HD 6450 or whatever it is recommended to first download the drivers from AMD and use those instead of the CD.

Do that before you install the card just remember where you put them or just install from download folder .install the card first then the drivers .


When you reboot with the new card installed use the f10 or f9 key whichever gets you into the bios then go to settings and disable on board video .

windows will then load VGA mode low res video drivers that's normal

installing the drivers is easy go to control panel/device manager/display device /right click /update drivers /from files this computer/ find the files /open them and let it install.

You can then assign primary and secondary monitor designations /resolutions ( if using two screens ) from the desktop by right clicking then go to set resolution screen the video will be at least 4 times better than the on board Intel GMA chip. You will gain the advantage of 1GB of dedicated video ram also. Your PC will think it took a viagra !
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post #9 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 01:02 AM
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That will work with a 400 watt power supply a decent upgrade( but again only if you are going to game with it) it scores roughly equivalent on pass mark to the 5570 but uses much less power just for info the last three numbers in the ATI AMD naming indicates performance values so the 5570 and 6570 are roughly equivalent the 6570 being a newer lower wattage chip. The 5570/6570 are a higher number than 6450 and naturally are much better at gaming .The 5570 was the step up from the 5450 and the 6570 is the step up from the 6450.. the only cards that you can use without upgrading your power supply are the HD5450/HD6450 they are fine for HD .but not much at gaming.
keep in mind that the 5570/6570 are entry level gaming cards but good for the money. The 6450 will run fine with a 250 watt power supply many have done it myself included no problems.

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. "can we make it louder "?
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post #10 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

NADA on the HD 5570 video card your stock power supply won't handle it no way!

HD 5570 needs extra 12v rail connctors it wont work on PCI bus power at all unless you put a bigger p/s with aux 12v rail connectors into your box .

HD 5570 uses 150-200 watts all by itself and the stock power supply in your computer is only 250 watts .

You would need at least a 5-600 watt power supply. While the HD 5570 might be a decent entry level game card it is way overkill for HD video.



For HD Video /HTPC /casual gaming a low powered fan less AMD/ATI based HD6450 1 MB 64 bit pcie 2.1 card will be more than enough for HD video and sound with HDMI output ,they will be quiet and only consume 17-25 watts depending on what it is doing so your internal 250 watt power supply will run it fine and does not require any additional power connectors .
HD 6450 runs fine from the PCIE slot power.PCIE 2.1 is backwards compatible with PCIE2.0 since you have a mini tower a low profile bracket shouldn't be needed but most 6450 cards include them .The HD 6450 is a popular HT video card. they go for $25-$35.00


If your Acer Veriton M275 has the usual Intel E6700 chip that's plenty for HD
and can play some light games .


OTOH if you are a gamer and want to try HD 5570 it is much better at games than a 6450
You could only do that if you also put in a 5-600 watt or more watt power supply then it would work.
but for anything other than games you would see no difference. If you don't plan to game on this box then for sure a 6450 will more than work.
The HD 5570 is probably overkill for the e6700 CPU it would be happier with an i3/i5/i7 CPU

I put a HD6450 in an an HP Slimline 4 core AMD box with a stock 220w power supply it runs fine.
My Sapphire HD6450 1 MB runs a PC monitor and bedroom TV set. it adds independent screen support and as a bonus upscales DVD's very well .It is way better than the on board video was.
it will run the TV and PC monitor in two different windows doing different things at the same time .it can support up to 3 monitors independently but no SLI.


I use a PS3 on the HT set up it has excellent video processing and DVD upscale the 6450 holds it's own with it at..........at least for DVD up scale and movies. BD and gaming are PS3 territory. Nothing like gaming on a 55" plasma unless it's something bigger.

Search You Tube for a video such as "installing a video card in a PC with on board video"
or just "installing a video card in a PC "
it's not hard .

You will have to uninstall your on board video drivers in Device MGR then power down unplug it and install the new card

If you get an AMD/Radeon based HD 6450 or whatever it is recommended to first download the drivers from AMD and use those instead of the CD.

Do that before you install the card just remember where you put them or just install from download folder .install the card first then the drivers .


When you reboot with the new card installed use the f10 or f9 key whichever gets you into the bios then go to settings and disable on board video .

windows will then load VGA mode low res video drivers that's normal

installing the drivers is easy go to control panel/device manager/display device /right click /update drivers /from files this computer/ find the files /open them and let it install.

You can then assign primary and secondary monitor designations /resolutions ( if using two screens ) from the desktop by right clicking then go to set resolution screen the video will be at least 4 times better than the on board Intel GMA chip. You will gain the advantage of 1GB of dedicated video ram also. Your PC will think it took a viagra !

You know you are some kind of super hero right? Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all of that.
You make this sound so much easier than I thought it'd be.

I think I'm going to go with this card. - http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Radeon-Silence-Profile-PCI-Express/dp/B004X8EO6Q/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
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post #11 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jewbacca1 View Post

I read that for some systems under 300 watts, the gpu will not start up? Should I just buy a $30 400 watt power supply?

I think I'll be doing this.

http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Radeon-PCI-Express-Graphics-100323-2L/dp/B0086ZV2L2/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1372741925&sr=1-1&keywords=radeon+hd6570

And if i need a power supply..

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Elite-Power-RS460-PSARI3-US/dp/B002G1YPHK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372742095&sr=8-1&keywords=400w+power+supply

 

Here is a review of the 6570. The total power consumption of the ENTIRE pc is only 199 watts on FULL load and the pc they used to benchmark is pretty high end.

http://techgage.com/article/amds_sub-100_line-up_radeon_hd_6450_6570_6670_review/9/

 

and anotherreview shows 204w total, stressing the gpu/cpu at 100%

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4278/amds-radeon-hd-6670-radeon-hd-6570/15

 

and again, 208w

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/amd_hd_6670_6570/13.html

 

I personally don't like Cooler Master power supplies and would rather get something else. This power supply is only a few dollars more and a lot better but its also more than you need for your pc.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004IZN3K2

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post #12 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Here is a review of the 6570. The total power consumption of the ENTIRE pc is only 199 watts on FULL load and the pc they used to benchmark is pretty high end.
http://techgage.com/article/amds_sub-100_line-up_radeon_hd_6450_6570_6670_review/9/

and anotherreview shows 204w total, stressing the gpu/cpu at 100%
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4278/amds-radeon-hd-6670-radeon-hd-6570/15

and again, 208w
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/amd_hd_6670_6570/13.html

I personally don't like Cooler Master power supplies and would rather get something else. This power supply is only a few dollars more and a lot better but its also more than you need for your pc.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004IZN3K2

Thank you. I think for my needs the 6450 is a perfect match though. I wont be doing any gaming and I'd be saving a lot of money.
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 01:52 AM
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I too have seen many video cards where it's stated they need 400W power supplies. However forum postings typically explain this as the manufacturer presumes if you are going to use a video card then you probably have done other upgrades & therefore you need a 400W or whatever PSU.

I have an Intel G620 CPU, 2 dual tuner cards & an MSI HD6450 video card. Using a Kill-A-Watt meter and while recording 4 program & playing another it reads only 56 watts. IIRC before installing the HD6450 the power consumption was in the low 40W range.
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

That will work with a 400 watt power supply a decent upgrade( but again only if you are going to game with it) it scores roughly equivalent on pass mark to the 5570 but uses much less power just for info the last three numbers in the ATI AMD naming indicates performance values so the 5570 and 6570 are roughly equivalent the 6570 being a newer lower wattage chip. The 5570/6570 are a higher number than 6450 and naturally are much better at gaming .The 5570 was the step up from the 5450 and the 6570 is the step up from the 6450.. the only cards that you can use without upgrading your power supply are the HD5450/HD6450 they are fine for HD .but not much at gaming.
keep in mind that the 5570/6570 are entry level gaming cards but good for the money. The 6450 will run fine with a 250 watt power supply many have done it myself included no problems.

The sapphire cheaper and has a $10.00 rebate they use the same chip and ram so they will perform the same .
I looked at the Asus did not see an advantage .

In order :

First clean browser cashe /run disk clean up /re boot .

download the appropriate win 7 32 bit or 64 bit drivers you need from AMD link just down load them and park them remember where you put them be it the desktop or another folder or you can just leave them in the download folder don't install them yet. .

Uninstall your display device drivers from the device manager close device manager close/ all running apps shut down the computer control panel/display device /rt click/uninstall/
close everything shut down unplug install the new card



Boot up go to set up /bios screen this is accessed by repeatedly pressing either the f8 /f9 /f10 or del key while the computer is booting it varies by computer .
when in bios disable on board video exit and save settings

Windows will continue to load it will install generic low res 640x480 vga drivers everything will be blurry and bigger like safe mode that is normal if windows asked to install any other drivers tell it no !

When windows finishes loading Go to /computer/control panel/device manager/display device / right click on the device shown /update drivers from files on this computer/ find the drivers you downloaded wherever you parked them or from the download folder open the AMD exe file and follow the instructions during installation install the catalyst software that comes with the drivers . do this first with your only primary pc monitor connected if you are going dual screen TV and PC.
only connect second monitor or TV with everything turned off connect your displays first turn them on then boot the computer so they can shake hands .
.
Never hot swap a video or HDMI Cable the same in link to amd above has support info and problem resolution links better than the video card mfrs both the ASUS and the Sapphire websites suck just saying .

Either of the 6450 cards will be fine on your present power supply I can tell you the Sapphire works fine when you use the AMD drivers ( recommended ) they all work the same.

it will also speed up your computer a decent amount. Lota of stuff to olay with in the AMD catalyst software but I found mostly it works well on it's own.

Note screen size resolution on TV with HDMI usually works better when set to 1920x1080 even if you have a 720p TV for some reason the amd drivers prefer that and plays nice with your TV that way..but you can always experiment .

Oh make sure you have color at 32bit even though most tv's are 8 or 10 bit panels
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post #15 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 02:50 AM - Thread Starter
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wow you guys are great. Just one question. you said,
Quote:
find the drivers you downloaded wherever you parked them or from the download folder open the AMD exe file and follow the instructions during installation install the catalyst software that comes with the drivers

Does that mean during the installation of the downloaded amd drivers, insert the disk that comes with the card and install those drivers too?
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You could install the drivers on the disc but those are usually old and outdated. Its best to download the latest drivers from AMD website.

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post #17 of 17 Old 07-02-2013, 11:12 AM
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jewbacca1 ,

No you will NOT insert the disk you will be installing the drivers and AMD catalyst files you downloaded instead do not click the have disk button but rather the files you have on your computer dialog . Then when you find them
(The ones you should have downloaded from AMD ) windows will usually point you right to them to them those are ones you use instead of the CD . Like it was mentioned earlier you could use the CD but it is not recommended as AMD has the best and latest revisions since they make the chip they also support the drivers
plus the vid card mfrs drivers on the CD usually have foistware or bloatware or both.
once you get started its really not hard windows 7 is very accommodating unlike the old days you don't have to worry about dos syntax ,patches,irq conflicts ,dip switches none of that stuff windows and PCIE takes care of all that.

You will be using the longer ( usually black but not always PCIE 1.0 x16 slot ) there is only one in your box so you can't get it wrong the 2 shorter ones are for sound and controller cards .The white one is PCI only
just be careful lining it up then gently press down evenly should then hear the lock click into place . then screw tour bracket to case and your good to go.
The 6450 will make that computer run much better and have better color /brightness and ,contrast overall

HD 6450 was an option available from Acer when your computer was new so it will work fine .
Acer even has the HD 6450 drivers available to download there but the latest drivers from AMD (at the link above ) should be the ones to use .
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