Help me end my miserable quest for a 100% silent power supply - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:09 AM
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The third pin is just for rpm sensor for the sake of the user. It has nothing to do with fan speed control. The fan speed is controlled by varying the voltage to the power pin (5-12V). Another pin is grounded, of course.
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The third pin is just for rpm sensor for the sake of the user. It has nothing to do with fan speed control. The fan speed is controlled by varying the voltage to the power pin (5-12V). Another pin is grounded, of course.

The tachometer winding can be meaningful to system boards with more modern features. For example Asus system boards that support FanXpert calibrate the fan by running it over a range of applied power voltages and monitor the actual fan speed that results. They provide an interactive means for adjusting various fan speeds (CPU, chipset, graphics) to temperatures that are known to the motherboard through those parts built in sensors.

The fourth pin is for implementing PWM fan speed control. With PWM control the fan receives a steady 12 volts and its speed is controlled using an internal controller and the voltage on the fourth pin. I can be argued that this offloads the motherboard's fan speed control circuits but in practice I haven't seen a lot of difference.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:45 AM
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RPM sensing has nothing to do with fan speed control, at least in the case of CX430 (and most PSUs), it's not "FanXpert". smile.gif
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

RPM sensing has nothing to do with fan speed control, at least in the case of CX430 (and most PSUs), it's not "FanXpert". smile.gif

Agreed.

So far, PC power supplies don't seem to be nearly as smart as the rest of the PC. I predict it is just a matter of time... ;-)

Meanwhile I've had some luck wiring the PSU fan to the motherboard to take advantage of the smarts that are there.
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Old 04-07-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

It is a little odd that fan speed is controlled by wattage and not temperature though, since some cases are worse than others for airflow and will run hotter at less wattage.

PSU takes cold air from the outside of the case via the fan, then emits hot air from the rear. So the case temperature won't affect PSU (and PSU won't affect the case temperature either). Unless you orient the fan toward the inside of the case intentionally, of course. (The figure below is not so good to illustrate this because this particular PSU is designed to take also the air inside the case.)

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Old 04-07-2014, 04:55 PM
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If the fan is spinning and the PC works and it's quiet then I would just use it until it blows up or starts over heating. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Slow fans are a good thing.

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Old 04-07-2014, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm assuming I could just get a 2 pin to 3 pin adapter and re-purpose the Yate Loon psu fan as a case fan (slowed down with a 5v adapter)? This would put rpm at about 832 if the Yate Loon is 2000.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:53 PM
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Perhaps it easier to buy a Molex 3-pin connector ($6.50 shipped!) than find an appropriate adapter.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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lol, $5 economy shipping on a $1.50 piece of plastic. They could stick that in an envelope with a 50 cent stamp. biggrin.gif Highway robbery.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

lol, $5 economy shipping on a $1.50 piece of plastic. They could stick that in an envelope with a 50 cent stamp. biggrin.gif Highway robbery.

If you are willing to wait for it to come from China (up to a month) you can get all kinds of adapters and connectors direct shipped, for a buck or two on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6inch-4Pin-Molex-Power-to-3-pin-PC-Fan-adapter-/281274447797
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:45 AM
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PSU fan connector is like this



I don't think there is an adapter to the Molex 3-pin connector.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

PSU fan connector is like this



I don't think there is an adapter to the Molex 3-pin connector.

I've never needed one! Just slip the 3 pin connector (female) over the right 2 pins!
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:03 AM
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The pin intervals are different. I am not sure what we are talking about. smile.gif
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The pin intervals are different. I am not sure what we are talking about. smile.gif

The difference in pin spacing has never caused me a problem. The pins are pretty thin and bendy. I'm far from the first person to recommend this.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:34 PM
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Yup, it will fit if you bend pins...

Usually the plug slips on easily enough that I don't even notice the bending.
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebo View Post

Two questions:

What happens if a PS overheats? Does it simply burn out (in which case I can just replace it)?

About 99 out of 100 PSU failures harm only the PSU. The other one sends a power surge through the PC and it is not pretty.
Quote:
What exactly is the "5 volt trick? Is there a post in this thread explaining how to find a 5v source?

The 5 volt trick takes many forms, but this is an easy one to explain:

Here is a typical adaptor for connecting a fan to a hard drive power connector:



As you can see the red wire to the plug for powering the fan is connected to the yellow wire on the hard drive connectors. The yellow wire carries 12 volts.

Probably the simplist form of the next step is to cut off the red wire where it enters the hard drive power connector, and then splice it with the red wire in the hard drive cable. It carries 5 volts.

Or, you can spend a little money on one of these that just plugs in line with the fan power:

http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-Fan-Speed-Controller-FANMATE-2/dp/B000292DO0/ref=sr_1_1


Resuming this discussion, I opted for the Zalman fan speed control. I'm using a cheap OEM PSU, with two fans, but one is disconnected.

As long as there is not much load, the PS is relatively quiet (still not htpc quiet). But when I'm doing video encoding, it still ramps up like a jet engine!

I plan on installing the CX 430 PS I bought last month, but I suspect even that will get loud during video encoding.

My next step is to go further back in this thread and check out those quiet replacement fans that were discussed.

Sent from my generic not my computer device.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:29 PM
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In my main desktop PC, I have a relatively old FSP PSU (3-4 yrs old) and the fan got loud over time. It uses a 140mm fan. I popped in a new Antec fan, hotwired the fan connector to the two pin connector on the PSU, but it was still a bit too loud for my tastes. Threw in a fan voltage reducer cable (5v), and I can't hear the fan from 6" away. I can't complain.

The cable looks like this, you can get them at a number of places.

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Old 05-03-2014, 11:45 PM
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Nice. A number of places = Newegg?

Sent from my generic not my computer device.
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:50 PM
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

You can make your own
http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/fanspeed.shtml

Sure you can. It's just easier when they are cheap and pre-built. If I recall correctly, I had ordered mine from Jab-Tech a while ago, with a bunch of other stuff. And they were like a dollar each.
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by leebo View Post

Two questions:

What happens if a PS overheats? Does it simply burn out (in which case I can just replace it)?

About 99 out of 100 PSU failures harm only the PSU. The other one sends a power surge through the PC and it is not pretty.
Quote:
What exactly is the "5 volt trick? Is there a post in this thread explaining how to find a 5v source?

The 5 volt trick takes many forms, but this is an easy one to explain:

Here is a typical adaptor for connecting a fan to a hard drive power connector:



As you can see the red wire to the plug for powering the fan is connected to the yellow wire on the hard drive connectors. The yellow wire carries 12 volts.

Probably the simplist form of the next step is to cut off the red wire where it enters the hard drive power connector, and then splice it with the red wire in the hard drive cable. It carries 5 volts.

If you are really lazy, get some of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-RED-3M-QUICK-SPLICE-SCOTCH-LOK-WIRE-CONNECTOR-TERMINALS-22-18-GA-/151269732154



You don't have to cut the red wire, just pull on it with a little jerk and it will break off inside the Molex connector.

Snap one of the above onto the thick red wire running between the Molex connectors, stick in the end of the red wire you just ripped off, assemble and squeeze with a pair of pliers.
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am not sure what to tell you. It's really quiet for me. I sit right next to it. I have a lightning in my desktop and it's very quiet. I have a Capstone in my server and it's very quiet. I have an Antec Neo in my HTPC (Seasonic) and it's also equally quiet. Lightning is the quietest but it might be because of the superior case I have it in. The HTPC is inside an Antec 300 case which isn't the greatest. My Server is in a Norco 4020 and I replaced the fan blades with silent X fans on 120mm Fan blade. I also replaced the 80mm back fans with silentX fans and I run them off fan control to slow them down when it's cool. (it's always cool) To me the Antec NEO, The lightning, and the Capstone are all quiet. I think all three are quality PSU's. I also have a Seasonic branded 550watt and it's no different than the Rosewill's or the Antec. The difference is nearly indiscernible between them and I can't see many people not happy with any of them.

My original fear was that OP is just more sensitive than normal to noise so I am hesitant to recommend anything at all... lol.

Your idea of replacing the fan seems legit. Cheap and easy to do. Just replace the fan on that cheap Corsair you have.

Have you ever done any re-encoding on your HTPC? I have the same Antec Neo in my desktop/HTPC. It's fairly quiet, but when I'm re-encoding, it ramps up and is pretty loud. That's why I don't use it for that during the night (it's near my bed). I may test connecting it's fan outside the PS so it can't do that. I'm a bit nervous it'll eventually die though.

Sent from my generic not my computer device.
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:30 PM
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I've only done a little encoding with the Antec and it's usually through RDP so I'm not in the same room.

The Antec is in my HTPC.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I've only done a little encoding with the Antec and it's usually through RDP so I'm not in the same room.

Well, that's one way to make it quiet! Actually, that was one reason I finally made a server. I can have it work through the night in another room. I still would like to use my desktop at night though.

Sent from a mobile device.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Don't use PWM fans if you want a quiet system.
That's what a PWM fan sounds like.

I only use voltage controlled fans, because the pulsing/ticking sounds from PWM fans really annoy me. And if you want really quiet fans, use Noctuas.

I have decided to buy a couple Noctuas. I have tried connecting my PSU fans to 5v. I've tried using a fan speed controller. although they do make the fan pretty quiet, I often use my PC's to re-encode BR's. When I re-encode without ltering anything with the PSU fan, the fans always ramp up after a few mins of encoding. This probably means temps are rising, and the increased fan speed may be necessary.

So I am worried about causing damage. I think it might be a good idea to try quieter fans, and keep them at 12 volts.

But Noctua makes fans with and without PWM. And both have tons of positive reviews on Newegg.
so b4 I order, should I avoid their PWM fans or not? what are the advantages of PWM fans (if any)?

Someone mentioned they have four wire pins. My PSU's seem to have only two pins (maybe three). so will I even be connecting the extra two pins? Will having only two pins connected effectively make a PWM fan a non-PWM fan?
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Old 05-19-2014, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by leebo View Post

I have decided to buy a couple Noctuas. I have tried connecting my PSU fans to 5v. I've tried using a fan speed controller. although they do make the fan pretty quiet, I often use my PC's to re-encode BR's. When I re-encode without ltering anything with the PSU fan, the fans always ramp up after a few mins of encoding. This probably means temps are rising, and the increased fan speed may be necessary.

So I am worried about causing damage. I think it might be a good idea to try quieter fans, and keep them at 12 volts.

But Noctua makes fans with and without PWM. And both have tons of positive reviews on Newegg.
so b4 I order, should I avoid their PWM fans or not? what are the advantages of PWM fans (if any)?

Someone mentioned they have four wire pins. My PSU's seem to have only two pins (maybe three). so will I even be connecting the extra two pins? Will having only two pins connected effectively make a PWM fan a non-PWM fan?
For what it's worth, I recently replaced all the fans in my case with Noctuas, and while I intended on using them as voltage-controlled fans, they have changed my opinion on PWM.
Noctua's PWM controller eliminates the audible distractions that I had with other PWM fans, and I would recommend them to anyone.
With the Noctua fans, they can be reduced to about 600rpm when using voltage control, but will go down to 300rpm using PWM - and even at 300 rpm there is no "ticking" or other noises from the fans caused by PWM driving.

So if you're buying Noctuas, I would definitely recommend PWM control. I still wouldn't recommend PWM controlled fans from another brand. (unless they do something similar)
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

For what it's worth, I recently replaced all the fans in my case with Noctuas, and while I intended on using them as voltage-controlled fans, they have changed my opinion on PWM.
Noctua's PWM controller eliminates the audible distractions that I had with other PWM fans, and I would recommend them to anyone.
With the Noctua fans, they can be reduced to about 600rpm when using voltage control, but will go down to 300rpm using PWM - and even at 300 rpm there is no "ticking" or other noises from the fans caused by PWM driving.

So if you're buying Noctuas, I would definitely recommend PWM control. I still wouldn't recommend PWM controlled fans from another brand. (unless they do something similar)

Sold! I'm going to get one for each of my three PC's that I use for encoding.
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:31 PM
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so was there a proper outcome to this thread? final solution ?

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:40 AM
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so was there a proper outcome to this thread? final solution ?
Buy a fanless plat w/ 7 year warranty for $100 or sometimes less on sale. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.

Nearly dead silent HTPC ver 2.0: i3-4340 w/ Noctua NH-L9i on Z87E-itx inside CM130 elite, fanless PSU, SSD OS drive
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