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mungee's Avatar mungee
06:32 PM Liked: 13
post #1 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 139
Joined: Dec 2009
I am planning a whole house Cat 6 network and I wanted to get inputs from folks who have done this before to make sure I have covered all bases

The eventual plan is to turn one of my boxes into a file server and be able to stream HD content to all rooms, along with the usual internet, printer sharing etc.

  1. Since the networking project is a subset of a larger electrical project, my electrician has agreed to run the wires since he is already going to be crawling all over the attic and basement.
  2. Will have him run it to each room- two cables per room and some rooms like family room, master bed room and basement will have 4 wires (for future proofing)
  3. I have bought Cat 6 Stranded from Monoprice, jacks, keystone, wall plates etc. He is an old school electrician will only run the Cat 6, so I will be making assembling the termination point and testing the each cable run.
  4. I am terminating everything into a TRENDnet 24-Port Unmanaged Gigabit GREENnet Desktop Switch
  5. I have read that all cables need to be terminated to where the internet enters the house, which will be the garage in my case (FIoS).

Questions:
  • The garage is not exactly well insulated and subject to heat and humidity, but the FIoS box seems to be doing fine in there, will the gigabit switch be fine in there or do I need to bring it into a more weatherproof room (like the laundry room) ?
  • Is there anything I am missing or I need to consider?

Thanks
olyteddy's Avatar olyteddy
07:00 PM Liked: 263
post #2 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 3,509
Joined: Oct 2005
Quote:
Is there anything I am missing or I need to consider?
Yes.
Quote:
3. I have bought Cat 6 Stranded from Monoprice...
Why stranded? Solid is generally used in walls and crawls. Also, why CAT 6?
adam1991's Avatar adam1991
07:14 PM Liked: 27
post #3 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 765
Joined: Sep 2004
Just say "no" to a "green" switch.

Unmanaged is fine, but "green" can/will play havoc with your setup.

Just get one that's going to kill us all with global warming within the next few years, and enjoy your no-fuss streaming HD content.
kegobeer's Avatar kegobeer
07:18 PM Liked: 11
post #4 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 1,344
Joined: Mar 2006
Quote:
I am terminating everything into a TRENDnet 24-Port Unmanaged Gigabit GREENnet Desktop Switch

Don't terminate to a piece of equipment that can be removed. Always terminate to a fixed location - a patch panel.

I do not recommend using the garage for a wiring closet. If you need to do that, I would build a room around the spot the FIOS enters the garage and then provide cooling to it. Temperatures in your garage (depending on location, of course) can easily be above 100 degrees, especially if you plan on putting a car in there.

I agree with olyteddy - why stranded, and why CAT-6?
kegobeer's Avatar kegobeer
07:20 PM Liked: 11
post #5 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 1,344
Joined: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post

Just say "no" to a "green" switch.

Unmanaged is fine, but "green" can/will play havoc with your setup.

Just get one that's going to kill us all with global warming within the next few years, and enjoy your no-fuss streaming HD content.

I've had a D-Link 24 port unmanaged green switch for a couple of years, plus two 8 port unmanaged green switches at different locations in my house, and I've never had any issues with streaming 1080p, live TV, or anything else. Have you had any problems using green switches in your setup?
assassin's Avatar assassin
07:28 PM Liked: 241
post #6 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 12,961
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Why not CAT6? The price difference is negligible these days.
mungee's Avatar mungee
07:53 PM Liked: 13
post #7 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 139
Joined: Dec 2009
Why Cat 6 over 5e?

Cat 6 was about $20 more and gigabit certified vs "gigabit rated" and I don't plan to change the cable for 5-10 years. I am hoping that sometime in the next five years 10 gigabit PCI cards and switches will be pretty ubiquitous as the current 1 gigabit hardware.

Why stranded over solid?

Read that the cable is more flexible, more suited to RJ-45 crimping and because I was planning to terminate to switch (I could not find any real advantage to terminating to a patch panel and then running to a switch). I know the keystone end 'may' be a challenge (although the monoprice video did not seem to make it a big deal) but I will keep you guys posted on how it goes. Will be testing each termination before final mounting.

Question:
Can phone (non VOIP, real hard line) be run on the the same Cat 6? If yes, how do connect it to the switch?
cybrsage's Avatar cybrsage
08:05 PM Liked: 150
post #8 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 8,074
Joined: May 2007
Phone cannot be run on the same line that is connected to a computer or a switch, but phone can easily run over one of the four pairs of Cat6 wires. Analog phone (standard POTS) only needs two wires, so as long as you remember which two you are using you can run a Cat6 line from the phone to the demarc point where the wire terminates in the house.
Colm's Avatar Colm
08:11 PM Liked: 89
post #9 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 4,652
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Stranded wire is used for patch cords only because of its better flexibility. Solid wire is normally used every where else because it is better electrically. The 100m maximum length for ethernet is predicated on 90m solid and 10m stranded. Using stranded throughout may result in a shorter maximum length. Whether it works or not will vary from situation to situation. Using stranded wire in punch downs designed for solid wire is asking for reliability problems. There are 8p8c plugs designed for solid wire.

Cat 5e is fine for 100baseT. It should work for moderate lengths with 1GbaseT, but there are no guarantees. But Cat 6 is designed to work up to 100m for 1GbaseT.

Your ethernet cables don't need to homerun to where the WAN enters the house. Pick someplace convenient for the router and switch and run a cable to the ONT.
Colm's Avatar Colm
08:35 PM Liked: 89
post #10 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mungee View Post

I am hoping that sometime in the next five years 10 gigabit PCI cards and switches will be pretty ubiquitous...
Then you probably should be running Cat 6A.
Cetrian's Avatar Cetrian
10:32 PM Liked: 10
post #11 of 34
07-07-2013 | Posts: 156
Joined: Feb 2008
Oh hell, then why not tell him to go with multimode fiber wink.gif You can beat a man to death with 3 feet of Cat6A in a pinch... Also you'd be supporting some south American copper mines...
mungee's Avatar mungee
04:56 AM Liked: 13
post #12 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 139
Joined: Dec 2009
There is a significant difference in price (almost 2x) between Cat 6 and Cat 6a and the hardware (jacks) seem to be different too.

The garage is subject to both the heat&humidity and bitter cold of the east coast, the FiOS box seems to not mind it. I will probably move the switch into the laundry room or the adjacent room.
captain_video's Avatar captain_video
05:17 AM Liked: 161
post #13 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 3,654
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Get a 24-port patch panel from Monoprice and a bunch of short CAT6 cables to jumper between the switch and the patch panel. Use solid copper CAT6 for all long runs. Chances are your jacks will be keystone jacks with punch blocks as will the patch panel. Solid copper works best for this type of connection. Invest in a quality punch block tool while you're at it. You'll thank me later.
billdacat's Avatar billdacat
05:49 AM Liked: 16
post #14 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 188
Joined: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mungee View Post

There is a significant difference in price (almost 2x) between Cat 6 and Cat 6a and the hardware (jacks) seem to be different too.

The garage is subject to both the heat&humidity and bitter cold of the east coast, the FiOS box seems to not mind it. I will probably move the switch into the laundry room or the adjacent room.

X3 BTDT...

I started out with the router and switch in the garage next to the ONT.....Big mistake.
Installed a wall jack (keystone) and ran CAT5e and RG6 cables back to a closet and under the stairs.
I only have a 12 port block, but room to expand if ever needed.
IMHO: CAT5e is plenty for consumer use.
cybrsage's Avatar cybrsage
06:38 AM Liked: 150
post #15 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 8,074
Joined: May 2007
The cost difference between Cat5e and Cat6 is low enough to warrant buying Cat6. I agree with everyone on the use of a patch panel and buying a punch down tool.
bryansj's Avatar bryansj
06:41 AM Liked: 206
post #16 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 6,451
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You should only be terminating into keystone jacks or punch-down panels. Throw any RJ-45 modular plugs into the trash and thank me later. Once you get past the general Google results of how to make your own patch cables you will see many installers suggest never making your own patch cables. Buy your (pre-terminated) patch cables from Monoprice, they are cheap and much better quality than you can make yourself so you save both time and money.

As said before, stranded cable is for patch cables and solid is for everything in-between to your punch-down blocks.. I also agree that CAT5e is plenty since you would really need CAT6a to take it to the next level.

Also, don't strip any CAT cables with one of those blade tools that you twirl around the sheathing. It can nick your cable and when you push it into your outlet it can break. This happened to me and I had tested all the connections as good, but after putting on all the wall plates I was only getting 100 Mbps from one of the computers. I spent hours getting new, old, or custom Ethernet drivers since I "knew" my cables were good. I tested again and it was bad and it had broken where I stripped the sheathing. From then on I always just use the nylon pull to cut the sheathing and then cut off the excess with cutters/scissors.
DotJun's Avatar DotJun
06:48 AM Liked: 58
post #17 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 967
Joined: Dec 2012
I'm sure you've already got it covered, but just in case, make sure the cable used is fire safety rated for in wall use.

I agree with everyone else, solid for walls and stranded elsewhere.
jimbo75's Avatar jimbo75
09:39 AM Liked: 15
post #18 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 116
Joined: Mar 2005
Stranded wire is fine. I'm guessing that he's not in a 15,000 sq ft mansion, so there's no need to worry about pulling cable to the 328 ft limit. And it sounds like he already has the cable... no point in going through the hassle to replace it.

I'd recommend finding a good place to homerun the cables to.... a media cabinet in the basement, the office, or some other place that makes sense. I wouldn't run everything to the garage. If the FIOS router needs to stay in the garage, then just run an uplink from the FIOS router to your new switch location. If you can move the FIOS router, that would be better.

I would also recommend getting a patch panel. You could say it's overkill, but like the recommendations above, it's better to terminate the wiring to fixed equipment and then run short jumper cables to the switch. 1) it will look much nicer. 2) your wiring will last much longer than that switch, so you don't want your cabling cut to a perfect length to match that switch.
blueiedgod's Avatar blueiedgod
10:22 AM Liked: 71
post #19 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 1,583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post

Just say "no" to a "green" switch.

Unmanaged is fine, but "green" can/will play havoc with your setup.

Just get one that's going to kill us all with global warming within the next few years, and enjoy your no-fuss streaming HD content.

I have been using TrendNet Green switch for a few years now. Haven't had a single issue running a 6 TV "whole house DVR" and 8 tuners.
robnix's Avatar robnix
02:06 PM Liked: 298
post #20 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 1,814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj View Post


Also, don't strip any CAT cables with one of those blade tools that you twirl around the sheathing. It can nick your cable and when you push it into your outlet it can break. This happened to me and I had tested all the connections as good, but after putting on all the wall plates I was only getting 100 Mbps from one of the computers. I spent hours getting new, old, or custom Ethernet drivers since I "knew" my cables were good. I tested again and it was bad and it had broken where I stripped the sheathing. From then on I always just use the nylon pull to cut the sheathing and then cut off the excess with cutters/scissors.

I LOVE the cyclops cutters, been using them for probably 15 years now. The only time I've had issues were the times I got a bit slappy from building too many cables and I started rotating more than once. You're not really supposed to cut through to the inner wires with them, the idea is to score the outer sheathing just enough to bend and break it off.
Colm's Avatar Colm
02:48 PM Liked: 89
post #21 of 34
07-08-2013 | Posts: 4,652
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cetrian View Post

Oh hell, then why not tell him to go with multimode fiber wink.gif You can beat a man to death with 3 feet of Cat6A in a pinch... Also you'd be supporting some south American copper mines...
Hey, he is the one that brought up 10G. Yeah, it is a bear to work with. I would rather think of it as welfare for the low life copper thieves in the USA. FWIW if it were my place, I would run Cat 6 and be done with it. Oh wait, that is what I did.
nickadam's Avatar nickadam
01:44 AM Liked: 10
post #22 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 2013
Yes cat6 plenum Cable is best for installations
captain_video's Avatar captain_video
05:16 AM Liked: 161
post #23 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickadam View Post

Yes cat6 plenum Cable is best for installations
Plenum cable is overkill and more expensive for most installations. CAT6 riser cable is more than adequate unless you're running it through ductwork.
bryansj's Avatar bryansj
06:18 AM Liked: 206
post #24 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 6,451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

Plenum cable is overkill and more expensive for most installations. CAT6 riser cable is more than adequate unless you're running it through ductwork.

Well, he did say "best".

The problem with the OP's stranded CAT6 cable is that it probably isn't in-wall rated.
blueiedgod's Avatar blueiedgod
08:24 AM Liked: 71
post #25 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 1,583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj View Post

You should only be terminating into keystone jacks or punch-down panels. Throw any RJ-45 modular plugs into the trash and thank me later. Once you get past the general Google results of how to make your own patch cables you will see many installers suggest never making your own patch cables. Buy your (pre-terminated) patch cables from Monoprice, they are cheap and much better quality than you can make yourself so you save both time and money.

As said before, stranded cable is for patch cables and solid is for everything in-between to your punch-down blocks.. I also agree that CAT5e is plenty since you would really need CAT6a to take it to the next level.

Also, don't strip any CAT cables with one of those blade tools that you twirl around the sheathing. It can nick your cable and when you push it into your outlet it can break. This happened to me and I had tested all the connections as good, but after putting on all the wall plates I was only getting 100 Mbps from one of the computers. I spent hours getting new, old, or custom Ethernet drivers since I "knew" my cables were good. I tested again and it was bad and it had broken where I stripped the sheathing. From then on I always just use the nylon pull to cut the sheathing and then cut off the excess with cutters/scissors.

That is eactly why I spent $5 and got a network tester from MEritline. The $5 network tester saved me hours of would be frustrations if one of the strands broke off, and I didn't know which.
bryansj's Avatar bryansj
08:30 AM Liked: 206
post #26 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 6,451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

That is eactly why I spent $5 and got a network tester from MEritline. The $5 network tester saved me hours of would be frustrations if one of the strands broke off, and I didn't know which.

I was using one too, but it was while the keystones were sticking out and not attached to the plate. Once I closed everything up after testing good I had assumed the wiring was still good. Now when I see a gigabit connection only sending 100 Mbps then I know to first check the cabling. This happened again recently and it was a patch cable gone bad.
olyteddy's Avatar olyteddy
08:38 AM Liked: 263
post #27 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 3,509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

Plenum cable is overkill and more expensive for most installations. CAT6 riser cable is more than adequate unless you're running it through ductwork.

Well, he did say "best".

The problem with the OP's stranded CAT6 cable is that it probably isn't in-wall rated.
My experience with coaxial cable has been that Plenum rated cables, because of the Teflon or other exotic insulation, actually have a lower propagation velocity and therefore wouldn't necessarily be the best. The best cable is the type that fits the application, not necessarily the most expensive.
captain_video's Avatar captain_video
11:10 AM Liked: 161
post #28 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj View Post

Well, he did say "best".
Plenum cable doesn't provide any better performance than riser cable. The only difference, besides the cost, is that plenum cable is fire retardent so you can use it in ductwork and meet local electrical code requirements. The wiring inside the sheath is exactly the same.

Here's a nice comparison between the two types:

http://www.lanshack.com/pdf/PlenumVsRiser.pdf
bryansj's Avatar bryansj
12:30 PM Liked: 206
post #29 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 6,451
Joined: Feb 2004
No humor here eh?
bob2300NX's Avatar bob2300NX
01:54 PM Liked: 12
post #30 of 34
07-09-2013 | Posts: 334
Joined: Jun 2005
Idk how long your run is? But I used this and have had 0 issues, no punch down tool to worry about:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10232&cs_id=1023213&p_id=2325&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10519&cs_id=1051903&p_id=7303&seq=1&format=2

I ran two of those with no issue and plan to wire up the rest of the rooms so I can lose wireless unless using a cell phone.

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