Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 07-08-2013, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Bought it for $20 at Target, works perfectly with both of my HTPC's.

Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400

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post #2 of 18 Old 07-08-2013, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by macman13 View Post

Bought it for $20 at Target, works perfectly with both of my HTPC's.

Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400

Oh crap, I accidentally made a new thread. How do you delete threads?

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post #3 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 07:05 AM
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that looks exactly like the Revue's keyboard, minus a few Google TV specific keys. I've used that with my HTPC and it works pretty well. Adding function keys is a huge win.

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post #4 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 08:34 AM
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If you use Logitech's SetPoint software, beware that versions 6.50 and up (necessary to support the new Logitech K400r revision) have a bug that cause them to chew up CPU cycles when your computer is idle: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Mice-and-Pointing-Devices/high-cpu-dwm-exe-due-to-setpoint-in-win-8/td-p/923142

This drove me crazy for months. The best solution seems to be using the Task Scheduler or an AutoHotKey script to kill SetPoint when the computer goes idle and restart it when the computers is active again.
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post #5 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

If you use Logitech's SetPoint software, beware that versions 6.50 and up (necessary to support the new Logitech K400r revision) have a bug that cause them to chew up CPU cycles when your computer is idle: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Mice-and-Pointing-Devices/high-cpu-dwm-exe-due-to-setpoint-in-win-8/td-p/923142

This drove me crazy for months. The best solution seems to be using the Task Scheduler or an AutoHotKey script to kill SetPoint when the computer goes idle and restart it when the computers is active again.

Good information as I am considering getting a K400. Maybe I should look elsewhere?

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post #6 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 09:01 AM
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Get a K400 as long as you can fine one for $20 or less. If you're going to spend the $40~$50 MSRP you might as well get a Logitech Mini Controller.

Don't worry about the SetPoint bug since you should never install SetPoint anyway. Windows is perfectly capable of handling the keyboard without SetPoint.

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post #7 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 09:08 AM
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Even Better information! I'm going to move my RiiN7 mini to the echo and get a new keyboard for the HTPC proper.

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post #8 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

Get a K400 as long as you can fine one for $20 or less. If you're going to spend the $40~$50 MSRP you might as well get a Logitech Mini Controller.

Don't worry about the SetPoint bug since you should never install SetPoint anyway. Windows is perfectly capable of handling the keyboard without SetPoint.

If you can find a way to disable "smooth scrolling" without SetPoint, let me know. Logitech seem to have written the driver in a way such that they have their own built-in "smooth scrolling", which wreaks havoc with the Windows 8 modern UI and certain other applications that have also implemented smooth scrolling. I haven't found a way to disable the built-in Logitech "smooth scrolling" aside from using their software, which appears to intercept the touchpad input and filter it so it appears "unsmoothed".
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post #9 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Good information as I am considering getting a K400. Maybe I should look elsewhere?

I ended up getting one despite the odd keyboard layout because it's the best keyboard + touchpad combination I've found in terms of touchpad functionality. It supports Windows 8 edge swipes and several two-finger gestures, but there are two funny things about the touchpad:
1) Tap and drag works a bit funny. With a Synaptics laptop touchpad, the drag starts from where your second tap begins. With the K400 touchpad, the drag starts a little bit further out. So you need to start your tap and drag motion a bit off from where you really want to start. For example, if I wanted to move something to the left using tap and drag, I need to start the tap and drag motion a few pixels to the right of the object.
2) Two finger tap for right-click works only about half the time. It's not like independent coin flips either. If it doesn't work, repeatedly doing the two finger tap won't do anything. You need to move the cursor a little bit using one finger then try to repeat the two finger tap.

With that being said, it is still the best keyboard + touchpad combo that I've found. Even with the SetPoint software bug, I would still recommend it because it's better than anything else out there, especially at the $30 price point. It's a sad state of competition really.
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post #10 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 11:23 AM
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I'm not very worried about Win8 usability. I assume that these problems are more specific to Win8 over Win7?

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post #11 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

If you can find a way to disable "smooth scrolling" without SetPoint, let me know. Logitech seem to have written the driver in a way such that they have their own built-in "smooth scrolling", which wreaks havoc with the Windows 8 modern UI and certain other applications that have also implemented smooth scrolling. I haven't found a way to disable the built-in Logitech "smooth scrolling" aside from using their software, which appears to intercept the touchpad input and filter it so it appears "unsmoothed".

I'd have to install Win 8 and play around with it. I haven't seen a reason to use Win 8 over Win 7 though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SlantNGo View Post

I ended up getting one despite the odd keyboard layout because it's the best keyboard + touchpad combination I've found in terms of touchpad functionality. It supports Windows 8 edge swipes and several two-finger gestures, but there are two funny things about the touchpad:
1) Tap and drag works a bit funny. With a Synaptics laptop touchpad, the drag starts from where your second tap begins. With the K400 touchpad, the drag starts a little bit further out. So you need to start your tap and drag motion a bit off from where you really want to start. For example, if I wanted to move something to the left using tap and drag, I need to start the tap and drag motion a few pixels to the right of the object.
2) Two finger tap for right-click works only about half the time. It's not like independent coin flips either. If it doesn't work, repeatedly doing the two finger tap won't do anything. You need to move the cursor a little bit using one finger then try to repeat the two finger tap.

With that being said, it is still the best keyboard + touchpad combo that I've found. Even with the SetPoint software bug, I would still recommend it because it's better than anything else out there, especially at the $30 price point. It's a sad state of competition really.

I'd still question it's value at $30... The Logitech Mini Controller is an exponentially superior HTPC keyboard at only $20 more. The $20 is worth the back-lighting alone for most people. As I said in another thread I picked up the K400 when it's MSRP was $14.99 and it was on Amazon for $11.99. I really wouldn't consider it worth much more than that.


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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I'm not very worried about Win8 usability. I assume that these problems are more specific to Win8 over Win7?

Yeah. Just plug in the wireless usb controller and you're good to go in Win 7 and earlier.

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post #12 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I'm not very worried about Win8 usability. I assume that these problems are more specific to Win8 over Win7?

The SetPoint bug I think is not Win8 specific--some of the complaints from that thread come from Win 7 users, and since it's causing DWM to hog CPU cycles I'd guess that it affects Vista even as well. If you can do without the Setpoint software, you'll be fine. As I mentioned, the main reason I run SetPoint is to kill the Logitech smooth scrolling implementation. Even if you do decide to run SetPoint, it's not a dealbreaker--you can just run an AutoHotKey script or a scheduled task to kill SetPoint when your computer goes idle. I think I'm more frustrated in general that Logitech's software is behaving so poorly and that they refuse to acknowledge this as a bug.
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post #13 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 01:09 PM
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Well I guess thats why everyone has different tastes. My friend has the diNovo Mini and honestly I feel the K400 is more usable. Its slightly bigger yet is alot more usable and comfortable (rest on lap while surfing). I like the backlight but its not a big deal since I am using the k400 when tweaking (daytime or lights on at night) and using my harmony when watching a movie (when lights are out).
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post #14 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob2300NX View Post

Well I guess thats why everyone has different tastes. My friend has the diNovo Mini and honestly I feel the K400 is more usable. Its slightly bigger yet is alot more usable and comfortable (rest on lap while surfing). I like the backlight but its not a big deal since I am using the k400 when tweaking (daytime or lights on at night) and using my harmony when watching a movie (when lights are out).

That sounds like my usage scenario with a keyboard but my kid uses the backlit Rii N7 when I'm asleep to thumb through youtube. I think that a "full" keyboard would be better for this use but not having it backlit is a "minor" drawback.

I'm not sure what the issue is with the scroll smoothing? Is it jerky without the setpoint software?

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post #15 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 02:11 PM
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I dont use the software and havent noticed any problems. I will let you know how scrolling is when i get home.
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post #16 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 02:58 PM
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The Logitech software does indeed smooth the scrolling quite a bit as well as let you redefine some of the keys and set some other options which I find useful. It is a memory hog, but I've got plenty, so it isn't so bad.
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 03:32 PM
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I don't need any memory hog crappy code on my HTPC!

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post #18 of 18 Old 07-10-2013, 01:21 AM
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I like the size of the K400 & use it for maintenance or occasional browsing, neither of which I do in the dark so lacking backlit keys is not an issue in my situation.
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