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post #1 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, I bought 12 Samsung 250gb SSD's and I want to configure them into raid 0 for performance only. Any one know how to do this on windows 8?

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post #2 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 08:24 AM
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Lol. Seriously ?


What mobo and sata cards ?

You set up RAID 0 at bios level so windows 8 doesn't matter much.

Do you have 12 sata ports that can be raided ?

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post #3 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 10:42 AM
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if i hadnt seen Dave's home theatre thread, i would have been thinking someone is trolling us lol

but as someone that loves speed, and would find a way to complain about 100GHz CPUs with 10TB PC1,000,000 RAM as being too slow, i am enjoying and living vicariously through Dave and his projects.

with 12 SSD, you would be maxing out the 6Gb connection. Can the SATA controller handle more? When you start getting up to these speeds (or even half), i see mostly PCIe SSD boards such as the OCZ Revo drives.

there was a demo of 28 samsung ssd drives in raid 0 for a promotion video, dont know what they used.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #4 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 11:52 AM
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Well let's see, if we assume these are the 840's according to Anandtech they do about 430MB/sec. RAID-0 theoretically scales linearly so that's 5.1GB/sec. If you were to put that on a card, you'd need to have it on an 8x PCIe 3.0 card to not have the interface be the limiting factor.

But if you went with something like this:
http://www.lsi.com/products/storagecomponents/Pages/MegaRAIDSAS9280-16i4e.aspx
It's only 8x PCIe 2.0, at PCIe 2.0's 500MB/sec/lane you'd need 11 lanes, that card would limit performance (without even getting into if the card could actually handle 5GB/sec throughput)

But I don't know that Dave is doing that since he says Windows 8, so I sort of assume he's looking for software RAID-0.

If you left it on just onboard controllers, I wonder if you'd run into the onboard controller system interface being a bottleneck.

I guess I'm not sure what 3TB of 5GB/sec would be useful for. Maybe nonlinear video editing?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #5 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I guess I'm not sure what 3TB of 5GB/sec would be useful for. Maybe nonlinear video editing?
Scratch space for such. I'd never want to rely on a 12 drive stripped array for anything other than bragging rights on some online forum. One hiccup in any of the 12 drives and your array and all of it's data is toast. The performance increase for RAID 0 drives is most noticeable for large requests in longer command queues. Smaller requests or short command queues there is an increase, but the request is processed so fast already that the increase just isn't noticeable outside of synthetic benchmark tests.
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post #6 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 01:13 PM
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That's a nasty scratch disk ! I'm jealous !

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post #7 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 01:18 PM
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That's a stupid scratch disk. No offense to anyone.
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post #8 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 01:46 PM
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Too slow ?

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post #9 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 02:08 PM
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At that point, aren't you better off building a system with 256GB of RAM, and using a RAM drive instead?
RAID0 with 12 drives is going to fail spectacularly.
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post #10 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 02:21 PM
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I doubt that. People always say that and I've run RAID for years without trouble.

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post #11 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 02:35 PM
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I doubt that. People always say that and I've run RAID for years without trouble.
With 12 drives?
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post #12 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 02:54 PM
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I've owned more than 12 SSDs with very little issues to think its likely one would fail.

But your chances are x12 greater which sucks.

Still, if you wanted to bet on 12 months I'd take the bet none would fail and it would work for the first year without trouble.

Especially with Samsung SSDs. Certainly much less than 1 out of 12 is defective as a medium average.

Odds are in his favor.

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post #13 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliaskary77 View Post

if i hadnt seen Dave's home theatre thread, i would have been thinking someone is trolling us lol

but as someone that loves speed, and would find a way to complain about 100GHz CPUs with 10TB PC1,000,000 RAM as being too slow, i am enjoying and living vicariously through Dave and his projects.

with 12 SSD, you would be maxing out the 6Gb connection. Can the SATA controller handle more? When you start getting up to these speeds (or even half), i see mostly PCIe SSD boards such as the OCZ Revo drives.

there was a demo of 28 samsung ssd drives in raid 0 for a promotion video, dont know what they used.

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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Lol. Seriously ?


What mobo and sata cards ?

You set up RAID 0 at bios level so windows 8 doesn't matter much.

Do you have 12 sata ports that can be raided ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Well let's see, if we assume these are the 840's according to Anandtech they do about 430MB/sec. RAID-0 theoretically scales linearly so that's 5.1GB/sec. If you were to put that on a card, you'd need to have it on an 8x PCIe 3.0 card to not have the interface be the limiting factor.

But if you went with something like this:
http://www.lsi.com/products/storagecomponents/Pages/MegaRAIDSAS9280-16i4e.aspx
It's only 8x PCIe 2.0, at PCIe 2.0's 500MB/sec/lane you'd need 11 lanes, that card would limit performance (without even getting into if the card could actually handle 5GB/sec throughput)

But I don't know that Dave is doing that since he says Windows 8, so I sort of assume he's looking for software RAID-0.

If you left it on just onboard controllers, I wonder if you'd run into the onboard controller system interface being a bottleneck.

I guess I'm not sure what 3TB of 5GB/sec would be useful for. Maybe nonlinear video editing?

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Originally Posted by cdru View Post

Scratch space for such. I'd never want to rely on a 12 drive stripped array for anything other than bragging rights on some online forum. One hiccup in any of the 12 drives and your array and all of it's data is toast. The performance increase for RAID 0 drives is most noticeable for large requests in longer command queues. Smaller requests or short command queues there is an increase, but the request is processed so fast already that the increase just isn't noticeable outside of synthetic benchmark tests.

I was resarching Windows Exprience Index b/c my SSD is bringing the score down. I am not building this PC ===Click Here=== for anything other than fun. I may play a few games here and there and use it for Photoishop, but this PC goes well beyond what is practical.

BTW, they are Samsung 840's

OK thats out of the way.

After my research I came across this,

And I thought this would be fun to do. I am not concerned about data loss, as I have everything backed up on my server. I have already had to do 2 new OS installs after screwing up the CPU overclock.

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Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

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post #14 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 03:43 PM
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Interesting, they "only" got 2GB/sec out of that, you should only need about 5 drives to get that (theoretically). Wonder if they're hitting the the ceiling of the system (they're only getting ~83MB/sec per drive on drives capable of 430MB/sec).

And FWIW, nothing in that demonstration was really that spectacular. I'm not sure I could say the opening of apps was any faster than it would be with just one SSD.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #15 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Interesting, they "only" got 2GB/sec out of that, you should only need about 5 drives to get that (theoretically).

That was done in the SATAII days.

Investigation of RAID0 with SSDs
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-benchmark,3485.html

TL;DR RAID0 with SSDs doesn't improve everyday tasks. Can't say if this applies to 12 drives also.
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post #16 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 05:17 PM
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If you really care about speed, you need to move beyond the bottleneck of SATA to PCI-E drives, or start using RAM disks.
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post #17 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 06:09 PM
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I can get north of 2GB/sec with 4 drives. I've done it.

I get 1100MB/sec with just two $49 VERTEX3 120GB drives. A Samsung 840 series @250GB size nearly saturates a SATA3 port so think 500MB/sec for each drive. With 12 you should get over 5GB/sec- if you have 12 sata ports that can raid.

Most RAID cards are going to be limited by x8 speed slot- and 8 ports. So then your about 4GB/sec with 8 drives.

It's been done many times.

Here's an old post I made in the VECTOR thread :




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Right.

If you read the article they explain that they have not tested it yet and want to grab a couple recent new high end drives like that to compare. They have a shoot out scheduled in next couple weeks and are waiting on those drives.

Vector and Samsung 840PRO basically exchange blows head to head... in almost every scenario and both are regarded as the top drives out.

I agree.

I think the only real value of that article was showing how much the newer current SSD drives have improved over 12 month old models.

I can't say I place any more value in that article other than that. For determining the KING we would need a better review.

I only posted it because many are looking for 128GB drives and drives under $150- while many reviews are for $200+ drives and 256GB or larger sizes.

IN RELATION TO HTPC's:
I am thinking a normal Samsung 840 or a VERTEX4 128GB @ $80 is probably the best choice for HTPC right now. The little brothers of the 840PRO and VECTOR offer near 90% performance for 50% the cost- feature the better controllers- and generally outpace the older sandforce and marvel drives so many have recommended around here for a long time.




.....


Or .....






you could RAID0 two $49 VERTEX3 and have a very fast 240GB SSD for $99

Here is quick benchmark while downloading and also running mediamaster on my second monitor right now and without optimization on my Z68 Intel board and integrated Intel RAID native in BIOS.



$99 it does not get any faster or more capacity than this.

That at $99.


With JAPANDAVE budget and hardware I am sure he can get really stupid. I love Dave and his EXCESSIVENESS . He's my new AVS hero. !



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post #18 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 06:11 PM
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512GB X (6) = RAID 0 3TB SSD BOOT DRIVE.







Anvil's Storage Utilities:



ATTO:

[/QUOTE]

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post #19 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 06:16 PM
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Dose Dere Sata ports.....biggrin.gif



There was interesting Anandtech article on something like this: FYI.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6228/asrock-x79-extreme11-review-pcie-30-x16x16x16x16-and-lsi-8way-sassata/10




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post #20 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
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^Z87 Extreme 11 Equipted with 22 SSD's



Z87-Extreme11ac_1.jpg



^Z87 Extreme 11 Equipted with 22 SSD's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


There you go: 22 SSD's biggrin.gif

Dave you might need to step it up eek.gif

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post #21 of 67 Old 08-01-2013, 06:21 PM
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@ Dave,

back to your original post I would love to help you out if you need it.

Setting up RAID 0 is pretty easy inside most RAID CARDS or the BIOS of most motherboards.

The question is what motherboard and what sata card are you planning to use. I am guessing you might be limited in how many you can actually stripe into a single array. Having 12 SSD is fine, but RAID 0 all 12 might be a challenge. You might need a special SATA card that can do that- as your exceeding normal consumer product capabilities. Your SATA card should work pretty well I think- That's a serious SATA CARD. It's rare on these forums that someone is running the hardware you are tongue.gif

Just hook all 12 up to the card and set up a RAID 0 array. The card should have a BIOS you enter by pressing a few keys like CONTROL + R or something- from the BIOS screen of your RAID card you set up the RAID 0 ARRAY. Then when you boot up Windows should see the drive you created as a single large drive.

In the case of 12 x 250GB you would have 3TB single drive.

If your planning on using this for your OS installation it will be much trickier to set up because you might need to load RAID DRIVERS in order to install windows.

Either way, your project is very do-able. You should see great success.

Please take a picture and post a benchmark for me. This is like HTPC PORN biggrin.gif

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post #22 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 03:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I am using the Rampage Extreme IV with all that beautiful 2400 DDR3 Ram. Here are some pics for now with the 64 gig of Ram installed. That Ram by istself is about $1K.




My build thread

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post #23 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 04:19 AM
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Dominators are some of the best looking RAMs in the market right now. Those look beautiful Dave. Post some pics of your whole rig if you don't mind smile.gif
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post #24 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Your telling me.

I have still yet to receive the Titans , but this is how it is rigft now. I also have order 2 x Seiki 4K 50" monitors which should get here in the next week or so. I thought, why not go with 2 instead of one, since the bevels on the 50" TV's are very thin.

The 9 fan radiator for the water cooling.


The wires are still a bit of a mess, but I will clean them up.


And a pic of the whole rig with the broken 24" monitor in the back and a temporary monitor until the two 50" 4K monitors get here.

My build thread

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Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

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post #25 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 05:30 AM
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Is your PC built into your desk ?

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post #26 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes.
I finally got the CPU to OC to 4.7g. Running Prime95 and temps are around 65 degrees.

My build thread

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Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

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post #27 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 05:41 AM
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Step 1... Get rid of Samsung drives
Step 2... ?
Step 3... Profit

Running Windows Home Server 2011 Evil Abandoned Edition
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post #28 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
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Step 1... Get rid of Samsung drives
Step 2... ?
Step 3... Profit

I'm not a big fan of the non PRO Sammie's and I'd prefer a Vertex for the better NAND but at the size if 250gb and the really excellent Samsung controller he's near the saturation point of SATA3. Multiplying them in RAID somewhat negates the small performance decrease of the inferior NAND, or the small advantageous of a PRO or VECTOR.

One big drive it matters, but 12 of them not so much. His speed will be stupid.

Probably slower due to poor access time than a two drive stripe of 512GB though in real world OS performance.

But it should absolutely slay other benchmarks like raw speed

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post #29 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

Step 1... Get rid of Samsung drives
Step 2... ?
Step 3... Profit
So what should I be getting?

My build thread

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post #30 of 67 Old 08-02-2013, 06:21 AM
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Your fine. Just use what you got

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