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post #1 of 18 Old 08-06-2013, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well just noticed my fans sounded loud so I checked and my i5 4570s is 53C and my two hard drives (seagate 4TB 5900RPM and 3TB 7200rpm) are 50C, MB is only 29C. Is this an issue? If so any suggestions?

My case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091

I have a 80mm fan on the side, stock CPU cooler w/ pico PSU (so PSU is not interfering with CPU cooler), I have my 4TB mounted on the side and also my 3TB mounted in the 3.5" bay under the blu-ray drive.

This thread has some good pictures, I am open to any suggestions and hope I can get these temps under control:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346162/my-new-htpc-three-3-5-hard-drive-locations-and-an-ssd-in-a-mini-itx-build

Best too keep the HD relatively cool? Seems peoples opinions differ on this.

EDIT: Problem is now solved. I had a few problems. One being that on idle the seagate software was making my cpu work @~50% and the other was the case was trapping in ALOT of heat.

How I fixed the problem is uninstalling the seagate software (didnt really need anyways).

What I bought to fix heat not escaping:

-2X of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999199
Both are running off of this (too loud at full power as intake fans):
http://www.svc.com/zmrc56.html

-Had this lying around the side vents dont match up very good but figured it cant hurt:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835610006

-Possibly the biggest cpu cooler that would fit this case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226049

-Optional but does lower temps some, thin 80mm for front of cooler:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103081

-Things are EXTREMELY tight between the front of the heatsink and sata connections on 3.5" and blu-ray drive; if the hard drive was a few mm longer I could not fit in the front slim 80mm fan. I actually had to tape the fan directly to the heatsink because there was no room for the silicone fan mounts. This cable helped a ton:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812816061





Things that I did that were out of the ordinary:
-Placed my 3TB 7200rpm (few C hotter than my two 5900rpm drives) upside down so the metal is in full contact with the bottom of the case (below the 3.5" bay). I then taped a piece of paper on the circuit board so it does not short on anything. Then I stacked my SSD on top; with the cabling that I did and with how much the drive is squashed in there, both the SSD and 3.5" drives cant move. They are not actually attached to anything it naturally cant move anywhere due to everything be so crammed.

-Took the 3.5" drive off of the side rail and placed it all the way to the back of the case with alittle bit of 3M double side mounting tape so a 120mm fan could fit. The side vents match up for alittle bit of the fan but im sure its providing some circulation

-All side fans (the 2X80mm and 120mm) are intake fans

-Heat is shrouded from the cpu cooler to the PSU hole this keeps the heat from building up. The heatsink was doing great with just the fan on the back pulling but is doing even better with the slim fan pushing air.

This was a fun project that took a ton of brainstorming and ALOT of patience. Everything was very tight (pictures dont do it justice). The wires on the side took awhile for me to move around so the side cover could close (side fans were interfering with the cabling). Everything fit together barely,when I opened it and rewired some things to add the slim fan I could not close the cover and it took a few tries to get everything flat enough on the side. If the CPU cooler was a few mm taller the cover would not close! If I did not have the ultra thin sata the 80mm slim fan would interfere with it. If I had more cables the cover or did not flatten them/organize them the cover wont close.

Computer weighs 13lbs which for something so small feels like a ton. I can now say that the case is 100% utilized there is nowhere else to put a HDD or fan tongue.gif. I am happy I did this, my HTPC acts as my server and I dont need a separate computer on 24X7 (just seemed pointless for how much storage I have). One of my 4tb drives that is installed has nothing on it yet. It is slightly louder than I would want but I have my AC running ~12-18hrs a day so I cant tell unless I turn my AC off. In the winter I am sure I could slow my fans down to make it quieter.

Almost forgot the best part:
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post #2 of 18 Old 08-06-2013, 11:30 PM
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53c for the cpu is fine but is this at load or idle? What matters is load temps.

 

50c is definitely on the high side for a hard drive.

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post #3 of 18 Old 08-07-2013, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

53c for the cpu is fine but is this at load or idle? What matters is load temps.

50c is definitely on the high side for a hard drive.

This was at idle. After running both the 80mm side fan and cpu fan at max speed, CPU: 40C, MB 28C, 4TB 5900rpm 39C, 3TB 7200RPM 43C (IDLE)

After running at full speed and booting up I saw the CPU spike to 63C and then drop back down.

EDIT: And the side fan cant increase in speed much but the cpu fan is LOUD (stock) so I have a feeling that the cpu fan is providing the increase in airflow.
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post #4 of 18 Old 08-07-2013, 05:10 AM
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That's definitely a bit on the warm side, but it is a small-ish case. Is the 80mm fan oriented to cool or extract heat. I'm guessing there's no other internal fan mounts?

While it won't be pretty, you could attach a larger fan (maybe 120mm) on the outside of the case so it blows air in across the ventilation holes, then configure the 80mm fan to vent heat out. If they work together, you should be able to get temps down quite a lot, and a 120mm fan running at 800rpm shouldn't be noisy either, but it will shift a lot of air.
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post #5 of 18 Old 08-07-2013, 05:30 AM
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cpu temps need to come down, is the retaining pins fully seated ? clean and reapply the thermal paste, blow out any dust inside, cpu and hd temps at idle @ 40 would be ideal, small case with that heavy cpu will be on the warm side though..
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post #6 of 18 Old 08-08-2013, 05:37 PM
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I think the problem is your bios settings. You might have your vcore set too low.

Try bumping it up to 1.65v and increasing your multiplier to 58. I think stock is only 34; That is not enough.

That should help you more with cooking with your HTPC. What are you cooking ? Eggs ?








Just joking biggrin.gif

Doing the opposite of what I just said is what you really want to do.

Downclock it to 2.6 and undervolt it. Problem solved.

ReneTHX had a good post recently about doing this to lower voltage and temps.

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post #7 of 18 Old 08-15-2013, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok an update I added another one of these fans so I now I have two on the side panel:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999199

And added this CPU cooler:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226049

The cooler seems to keep the CPU at about the same temps as the intel running at max while the cooler is pretty quiet.



Also added another 4TB drive so I now have two 4tb, a 3tb, blu-ray drive and an SSD. This thing is a monster but one issue, with the side fans used as exhaust the temps were CPU 45C and 3TB 44C (others 42C).

When I use the two fans as intake everything becomes >40C! But my problem is that as intake fans I hear alot of turbulence. Any suggestion? As exhaust the fans are much quieter but as intake they are LOUD.

EDIT: Ok I stole a zalman resister cable from my dads computer this seems to have done the trick even with the fan as an intake. I thought about cutting the fan grille since the fan holes are likely causing the problem but didnt want to make my case ghetto.

Anyone know if I could connect two fans to the resistor:
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post #8 of 18 Old 08-16-2013, 04:36 AM
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Your problem is airflow. You have too much stuffed into that little box. It was designed for one 5.25 and one 3.5 drive. You have 1 x 5.25, 3 x 3.5 and 1 x 2.5. Plus 3 fans and an i5. Despite what Assassin did (he used a i3), that is way too much for that case. Your turbulence is due to the fans pushing/pulling the air against all that hardware, with no path out of the case.

However, even with all that, your temps are not bad. If you can keep everything below 60C under load, you'll be fine. It's going to be loud, though. I would never want that for a HTPC.

If it was me, I would move all those drives except for the SSD into a separate 4 bay drive enclosure.
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-16-2013, 06:36 AM
 
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Yes, you can connect two fans to that speed reducing resister.

After looking at your pics, I would slide a fan underneath the HDDs, in that space between the motherboard (by the CPU fan) and the case. Put a couple of layers of double sided tape on the end of the fan furthest from the CPU cooler to lift it up and angle it. This will allow air to enter the fan and then blow it partially across the HDD and also out into the case. This should help your cooling out a bit by giving you more airflow through the case. I know you said you might add another HDD there, but a fan would be better.




I also see there is a slot on the back that can be used for a slot cooler. Something like this:



Only $6 before taxes and shipping at Newegg.
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post #10 of 18 Old 08-16-2013, 09:36 AM
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I am impressed with how much you stuffed into the MI-008. Besides the noise, for a mini-ITX build those temperatures are pretty good.

A slot cooler is a good idea.

 

 

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post #11 of 18 Old 08-17-2013, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post



Just joking biggrin.gif

Doing the opposite of what I just said is what you really want to do.

Downclock it to 2.6 and undervolt it. Problem solved.

ReneTHX had a good post recently about doing this to lower voltage and temps.

I remember reading redethx's post about that but cant find it right now. I know you said you have the 3TB and 4TB seagate drives. How hot are yours running?
Quote:
Originally Posted by coppertubing View Post

Your problem is airflow. You have too much stuffed into that little box. It was designed for one 5.25 and one 3.5 drive. You have 1 x 5.25, 3 x 3.5 and 1 x 2.5. Plus 3 fans and an i5. Despite what Assassin did (he used a i3), that is way too much for that case. Your turbulence is due to the fans pushing/pulling the air against all that hardware, with no path out of the case.

However, even with all that, your temps are not bad. If you can keep everything below 60C under load, you'll be fine. It's going to be loud, though. I would never want that for a HTPC.

If it was me, I would move all those drives except for the SSD into a separate 4 bay drive enclosure.

I feel like I am right on the edge and could figure this out. I like having everything in one box so if I goto a friends I can just grab the computer and go. While I agree I have ALOT stuffed in this case I like my setup and enjoy the challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Yes, you can connect two fans to that speed reducing resister.

After looking at your pics, I would slide a fan underneath the HDDs, in that space between the motherboard (by the CPU fan) and the case. Put a couple of layers of double sided tape on the end of the fan furthest from the CPU cooler to lift it up and angle it. This will allow air to enter the fan and then blow it partially across the HDD and also out into the case. This should help your cooling out a bit by giving you more airflow through the case. I know you said you might add another HDD there, but a fan would be better.




I also see there is a slot on the back that can be used for a slot cooler. Something like this:



Only $6 before taxes and shipping at Newegg.

Thank you for the suggestion it is appreciated but a slot cooler wont fit since I already have two 80mm fans on that side where a PCI would be. I took your suggest though and put a 120mm fan where the SSD used to be.

So here is what I did today, zip-tied the wires to make it less restrictive. I then added a 120mm fan as an exhaust near where the side hard drive sits, only a small portion of the fan is lined up with the holes but I figured that it couldnt hurt. I then flipped the 80mm so they are intake and connected the 120mm and two 80mm fans to the resistor.

Everything is very quiet right now but my temps on idle with no AC (at night) is 45C CPU, 44C 7200rpm 3TB, and the two 4TB drives are around 42C. What does everyone think of these temps? Too hot? Or not great but not bad?

Other than running the 120mm fan at 12V instead of 7V I have ran out of ideas. Also the CPU cooler is sucking in air from where the stock PSU used to be so I have no idea why its not cooler. I guess the fan is about as cool as the intel at max speed but I was expecting more from a tower cooler (especially since its blowing in fresh air).
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post #12 of 18 Old 08-17-2013, 07:32 AM
 
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Run it for a few days without the cover on to see what happens to the temps. If there are fans on the cover, remove them and prop them against the case to simulate them still being there. Try it with and without the fans. I am curious to see if the case is trapping a ton of heat (cases normally trap some heat) or not. The power supply usually is an exhaust point for heat since it sucks air from inside the case to cool itself and then sends it outside the case. If you did the mod Assassin shows on the link you provided, you removed that exhaust path.

You can also try putting one of your side fans blowing into the case and the one on the other side blowing out of the case to force a cross breeze.


Another thing you can try if your hole drilling skills are good enough is to copy the hole pattern on the side of the cover onto a template of paper or cardboard and then use that to drill in the same hole patter on the top of the case above the CPU. This will provide an airflow path right where a lot of heat is created but will still look good. Paint the inside of the holes black if possible to make them look like they were put there by the manufacturer. I would probably just cut a circular hole and the fan screw holes instead. I would then paint a fan protection grill black or buy a fancier looking one and screw it over the hole. Something like one of these:





You can see a lot of different ones here (some look pretty sweet):

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=computer+fan+cover&go=&qs=bs&form=QBIR
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post #13 of 18 Old 08-17-2013, 07:42 AM
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< 50C seems ideal to me for a mini-ITX build with so much stuff in it.

 

 

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post #14 of 18 Old 08-17-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob2300NX View Post

I remember reading redethx's post about that but cant find it right now. I know you said you have the 3TB and 4TB seagate drives. How hot are yours running?

Mine run very cool but I am not sure my experience is appropriate for a mini ITX thread biggrin.gif

I've got a Norco 4220 Server chassis - It's literally the complete opposite of ITX in every way possible. It's big in all directions, lots of room, lots of air flow. The design sucks cool air in from the front - and drags it across all 20 hard drives and exhausts in the back.
It' decidedly a server chassis- and it does what it should very well. My drives run a lot cooler - probably cooler than any GREEN or RED drive would ever run in a ITX HTPC case. My CPU temps are in the 30's and 40's under use too.

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post #15 of 18 Old 08-21-2013, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Run it for a few days without the cover on to see what happens to the temps. If there are fans on the cover, remove them and prop them against the case to simulate them still being there. Try it with and without the fans. I am curious to see if the case is trapping a ton of heat (cases normally trap some heat) or not. The power supply usually is an exhaust point for heat since it sucks air from inside the case to cool itself and then sends it outside the case. If you did the mod Assassin shows on the link you provided, you removed that exhaust path.

You were very right the heat was being trapped I could tell right away when removing the cover. You got me on the right track to fix the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

< 50C seems ideal to me for a mini-ITX build with so much stuff in it.

Your probably right for how much I have in it but now its perfect and I dont have to worry. Is <70C stable running prime95 thanks to the cpu cooler blowing heat out.
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post #16 of 18 Old 08-21-2013, 11:41 PM
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<70c running prime95 is perfectly fine.
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post #17 of 18 Old 08-21-2013, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

<70c running prime95 is perfectly fine.

I know I am very happy with that result for an i5 in a itx. It actually was more like 65C
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post #18 of 18 Old 08-22-2013, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

<70c running prime95 is perfectly fine.

If your talking from a pure perspective of your CPU not melting biggrin.gif

I've actually thermal throttled and bounced off the thermal wall with a bunch of CPU and never had one fail.

Even 90c is somewhat ok. The chip won't die. Sometimes they like it.

I've definitely pushed through more voltage and higher clock speeds on air cooling that a reasonable person would do and I can't say anything bad happened.

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