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post #1 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Kilroy has been helping me out (or should I say talking me into) smile.gif a cheap NAS based on Windows 7 or FreeNas.

I was going to buy a 4 bay hard drive case and just connect it to the back of my Dune smart player, but that's a hundred bucks and Kilroy pointed out for 100.00 bucks, or just over, I could build one out of an old PC off Craig's list or the like.

We were taking up the Dune 3d thread so I wanted to start a new thread here.

Any tips are welcome.

Questions to follow.

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post #2 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:28 PM
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Two words: Intel Pro 1000 NIC.

Ok, that's 3 and a number.
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post #3 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL.... that's another thing! All the built in network is Real Tek

For a minute I was looking at possibly a new set up, but you just can't beat the price of a used CL box.

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post #4 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:31 PM
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Here's a couple of examples of PC's you can find on CL which would make nice starts for a DIY NAS...this are just examples:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/syd/3987698536.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/syd/3987695353.html

Clean all the bloatware and as long as they boot right then you got the starts of a great cheap NAS.
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post #5 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I just found a bunch of WD green drives for 40/each - 2 TB .... wish I could find some 4TB.

I'm really thinking of freenas ....... browsed the site for a little while today and it looks easy to setup. I've yet to read the forums though, and see how many, if any, issues people are having.

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post #6 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

LOL.... that's another thing! All the built in network is Real Tek

Yeah, that's why I mentioned it. Most mobos come with Realtek so either find one of the PCI versions of Intel Pro 1000 or if the mobo has an open PCI-e 1x then you can go with the PCI-e version which I think is cheaper. Both should be more than enough to saturate the gigabit. Intel Pro rocks.
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post #7 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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TOO ODD you posted this Dell -

I've been talking with this guy for the last half hour -- http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/syd/3985220283.html

It's got 4 sata ports and he's willing to install a PCI dual IDE port for my OS drive and cd rom. I told him to keep the OS and if he wants he can size down the 160gb drive.

Right now we're at 125.00

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post #8 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Can I boot from a PCI IDE? Looks like this is not ideal

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post #9 of 166 Old 08-07-2013, 10:53 PM
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I spent about $250 dollars to build my server. I bought everything on sale or on ebay:

Mobo: Biostar A760G M2+
CPU: AMD Athlon X2
RAM: KINGSTON KVR800D2N5K2/4G 4GB (2X2GB)Channel F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK
PCI: Intel PWLA8391GTBLK PRO/1000 GT Desktop Network Adapter
Case: AZZA Helios 910 CSAZ-910 Mid-Tower
HDD: Total 15 TB This is what costs the most. I've got 7 hard drive, and one of them is a parity drive. So, I've got about $600 to $700 dollars on HDD alone. Theses I buy as I need more space. I can have up to 23 HDD, and I can use 4TB drives.
PSU: Corsair TX750
OS: UnRaid 5RC15

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).


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post #10 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

Two words: Intel Pro 1000 NIC.

Ok, that's 3 and a number.

About $20 unless you get a mobo with it built in. Many Asrock boards (cheap) have it these days.

Might be a reason to get a modern motherboard and socket hardware machine.

That, And you'll save more in electricity than it costs. Big difference in power efficiency of a modern socket 1150 or 1155 intel and something aged like a socket 775 or 939.

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post #11 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 05:36 AM
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145596&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Hard+Drives+-+External-_-HGST-_-22
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I just found a bunch of WD green drives for 40/each - 2 TB .... wish I could find some 4TB.

I'm really thinking of freenas ....... browsed the site for a little while today and it looks easy to setup. I've yet to read the forums though, and see how many, if any, issues people are having.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145596&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Hard+Drives+-+External-_-HGST-_-22145596




$129 for 4TB new

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post #12 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 05:44 AM
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You can buy a brand new modern hardware server for $250 and get exactly like you want.

I'd do that. While the lure of cheap often suggests used is good, the reality is PC tech changes too fast and improves too quickly and often cheap translates to junk.

Be careful going down that road. The 10$ per TB you save on used HDD might not be worth the trouble of them failing on you sooner or lack of warranty support and long term endurance.

I've got a pile of green 2TB drives I'm selling too. There's a reason people are selling off what seems like good drives, it's because they've reached that point where you might not want to trust them, they are smaller, slower, and use more power.

You'll likely employ twice as many to achieve the same storage capacity and waste twice as much energy or more. Twice the noise and heat, and twice the drive failures and pain and frustration.

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post #13 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 05:46 AM
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That said,

Tell me what you want to do exactly. How will you use it ? Do you want a server or a NAS?

A server is a a server and a NAS is an appliance like storage box. You can do more with a server but often all people want or need is NAS. Costs are nearly identical.

Tell me more and I will put together for you a nice modern brand new build that should compete nice with used stuff your looking at.

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post #14 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I want a NAS. Ability to add storage as a I go. Will be used for movies and possibly a backup drive for pc. Some pictures. Maybe some music but not likely.

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post #15 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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The 4tb is 159.00. wouldn't it be a good idea to buy drives that are known for reliability?

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post #16 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You can buy a brand new modern hardware server for $250 and get exactly like you want.

I'd do that. While the lure of cheap often suggests used is good, the reality is PC tech changes too fast and improves too quickly and often cheap translates to junk.

Be careful going down that road. The 10$ per TB you save on used HDD might not be worth the trouble of them failing on you sooner or lack of warranty support and long term endurance.

I've got a pile of green 2TB drives I'm selling too. There's a reason people are selling off what seems like good drives, it's because they've reached that point where you might not want to trust them, they are smaller, slower, and use more power.

You'll likely employ twice as many to achieve the same storage capacity and waste twice as much energy or more. Twice the noise and heat, and twice the drive failures and pain and frustration.

I have re-purposed an Intel Pentium II 233 MHz box as a NAS running Windows 2000 server. The cost of the box was free, since it was an old computer someone was throwing out.

My costs were:
$10 for Rosewill SATA-to-PCI (not PCIe) card.
$10 Gigabit PCI NIC
$200 for 4x 2 Tb Samsung HDDs (pre-flood, pre-Seagate), which replaced the 4x 1 Tb Samsung HDD's used in the box previously.

The pros: Read speeds are fast, just as fas as a USB 3.0 connected HDD doing large files (basically limited by the spinning hard drive read speeds).

The Cons: Write speeds are slow, but that is the limitation of RAID5 and CPU combination. It took over a week to build RAID5 array. Which I was fine with, since the box cost me next to nothing.

Power draw at idle is about 30 watt.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #17 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Gus how much was your UnRaid software? How much tweaking did you have to do when setting it up?

I read the software is free up to 3 disks. That would give me some time before I had to buy the software.

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post #18 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Gus how much was your UnRaid software? How much tweaking did you have to do when setting it up?

I read the software is free up to 3 disks. That would give me some time before I had to buy the software.

I started with the free software, and after a week, I bought the Plus license, and then upgraded to the Pro license so I spend about $120 for the software. I followed Damian's how to here: http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2011/05/18/guide-unraid-server-part-1-the-journey-to-unraid/. It was pretty simple installation, and Lime Tech forum has pretty good support.

I mainly use Unraid for movie / tv show storage and media streaming. I don't use it for anything else, and so far it has been solid.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).


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post #19 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
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The 4tb is 159.00. wouldn't it be a good idea to buy drives that are known for reliability?

Did you miss the $30 coupon code for discount ?

Why do you think Hitachi is not reliable ? I've seen studies where it ranked #1.

Don't let the "death star" fool you. (That was a ugly spot for Hitachi) Those exploded with frightening regularity but it's an isolated incident unrelated to your experience today.

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post #20 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 02:14 PM
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I have some 4TB Hitachi drives that I bought $120/ each at Egg. In my home server, they are quiet, cool but slowwwwwww comparing to my Seagate 3TB/ 4TB at 7200rpm drives.
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post #21 of 166 Old 08-08-2013, 03:33 PM
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Well he was looking at used 2GB WD GREEN 5400rpm's... lol. Those Hitachi's would feel supercharged in comparision haha. They struggle to do 60MB/sec when full.

Seagate 7200.14 is like a Ferrari F1 car. Nothing touching that bad boy. They do over 200MB/sec when new. AND- At $35 per TB and $99 for a 3TB it's clearly the best drive on the market right now, and almost every other choice seems foolish IMO. The only exception I make is when I find a drive with a lower cost per TB.





Dat Dere Seagate 7200.14 3TB tongue.gif






900x900px-LL-b2b1eba6_Untitled1.png


That's like entering a PRO in the novice class wink.gif

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post #22 of 166 Old 08-21-2013, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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So I picked up my iPhone today at the repair shop where they also repair computers. I asked if they had anything for 75 or less. I really haven't been looking and was going to pursue something newer at a later date.

Turns out they had an XP machine there. Gave it to me for free. I have no idea what's inside yet, but what the heck. At the worst I can throw it in the trailer for the next junk load.

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post #23 of 166 Old 08-21-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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And that was very short lived..... no sata and no pci express. Case isn't even worth ripping out guts....

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post #24 of 166 Old 08-22-2013, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

And that was very short lived..... no sata and no pci express. Case isn't even worth ripping out guts....
Quote:
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And that was very short lived..... no sata and no pci express. Case isn't even worth ripping out guts....

I've been down the road your traversing.

Are you really budget limited fiscally ? Or just mentally ?

How much can you spend before drives are purchased ?

You are really better off spending a few bucks now to get something that will work good for a while. It's going to save you more in the long run.

Do you prefer something already built? Or would you build it ?

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post #25 of 166 Old 08-22-2013, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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At this point its a matter of priorities. I am Still dialing in acoustics and sound.

I had put this on the back burner, but just happened to ask yesterday and in turn just happened to come up with something. It was going to sit for a while anyways.

I can buy a drive and external enclosure for now. Then throw it in the nas box when I'm ready to build it.

I thought I was farther along in acoustics than I turned out to be......

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post #26 of 166 Old 08-22-2013, 11:02 AM
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The reason I ask is I have seen your equipment and theater.

I am thinking you would be better off to just use modern new hardware given where you are at with the rest of your stuff. The compromises and cost savings are not worth the headaches, your will get crappy performance and more energy consumption, and some frustrations.

If you can spend $250 on brand new modern hardware- then that is how you should proceed IMO.

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post #27 of 166 Old 08-22-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. For now Im going to buy one drive. Gotta buy at least one anyways, right?

That should hold me over until I am at the point where its nas building time.

Is your reccommendation still the same? The seagate 7200.14 still the drive to get?

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post #28 of 166 Old 08-22-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Thanks. For now Im going to buy one drive. Gotta buy at least one anyways, right?

That should hold me over until I am at the point where its nas building time.

Is your reccommendation still the same? The seagate 7200.14 still the drive to get?

Depends on what is important to you.

If price and performance are important then there is no better drive. It's very fast, and very affordable.

If your looking more for ultra low heat, noise (not that 7200.14 is very noisy or hot, it's really almost the same) you can look at a Seagate NAS or WD RED. personally I think the RED is crappy and the Seagate NAS is a better drive these days. Both come with 3 year full warranty- while the 7200.14 only has 2 years.

Interesting note on warranty- it usually seems the warranty is 2.6 months from the date of MFG. Most of 7200.14's have longer than 2 years when I run the serial number on the online warranty checker- I like to label the drives with this info when it expires so I know by pulling it out and looking at it how long it's under warranty for.


If you really needed the low spindle speed ( I think it's a gimmick most times ) then the Seagates do 5900rpm so they retain quite a bit more / better performance than the WD GREEN or RED drives @ 5400rpm and are still very energy / noise / heat .

At the end of the day the difference between a RED 5400rpm and a Seagate 7200.14 in a normal set up like a server or desktop is like 1 degree more temp on the surface, and it's probably less than $1 a year in energy. I generally favor the better performance at a cheaper price.
Seagate does not do 7200rpm and 4TB so the 4TB is only 5900rpm. It's a good choice over a RED or GREEN WD I think, if for nothing more than it being cheaper per TB and also bigger. 4TB is always better than 3TB, and WD does not make any good 4TB drives. WD is not today what it was a couple years ago. It's losing ground quickly to Seagate these days as Seagate seems to have heavily invested into 1TB platters and advanced technolgies to make higher density platters work more reliably and so the result is they are launching their 5TB drive soon, while WD can't seem to even get a reliable 4TB RED or GREEN drive to market yet.

Taking my personal bias out of the equation- any modern HDD you buy today that runs reliably for years will be fine. They are all better than anything from a couple years ago on energy, heat, noise, performance and price per TB. The same is true for basic hardware.

Intel HASWELL socket 1150 launches in a few weeks. A CPU for $35 is going to be light years better than something that was $300 a number of years ago. I don't think going used is a good idea for you. It's just not worth it.

I have a 3.16ghz Core2 Duo E8500 CPU I paid $300 for, inside a ROG ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA II DELUXE socket 775 mobo- with 4GB of CRUCIAL BALLISTIX high end RAM (DDR2 800mhz) - The board has only SATA II, and lacks tons of features you would want like USB3.0, HDMI, Integrated graphics, ...etc... etc... It's my desktop gaming system from 2 builds back- and I spent $600 just on the board, ram and CPU at the time.

Now this was decidedly high end when I bought and built it not that long ago and it's sitting on my shelf now unused because reality is I can buy a $35 CPU today that does the same amount of power on much less energy, heat and noise, and I can get a motherboard for it for $60 that has HDMI, integrated graphics, USB3.0 and SATA3.


If you wanted it- I'd sell it cheap biggrin.gif

You can't go used and get anything that is as good a value as brand new modern stuff. Not in the long run anyways. You have nice stuff, so I think you will appreciate spending $100 and doing it right with modern hardware. If you can afford a few hundred bucks your much better off using a modern tech to build your server IMO. It will last you many more years and give you many less issues.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #29 of 166 Old 08-22-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Good info... Thanks a lot.

I will post here and seek your help when Im ready to start the build. Until then Ill grab a drive that can be used in the nas when its built.

I don't plan to transfer a lot, only when adding movies actually so the larger, slower, seagate sounds like the way to go if its cost effective.
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post #30 of 166 Old 09-03-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you recommend a good external USB 3.0 blu-ray drive?

I don't need one that burns the blu-ray to a disc, but I do need one that reads as fast as possible.

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