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post #1 of 53 Old 08-19-2013, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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looking to get 1 or 2 big drives, either 3 or 4 TB
going thru the reviews is not helpful since all seem to have issues...
maybe some here know more about reliability or which to avoid
maybe which have low noise (i read WD reds and greens are the winners in this department)

WD 3TBgreen $116@frys, 3TBRed $135@Microcenter,
Hitachi/HGST 5400rpm 99$@frys, 7200rpm 120$
Toshiba
Seagate desktop vs NAS(seem to get better reviews)
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post #2 of 53 Old 08-19-2013, 11:12 PM
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I just installed eight (8) 4TB Seagate NAS drives in a Synology DS1813+. The original drives were 2.5" 1TB HGST 32MB 7200RPM drives for low noise, energy efficiency, low heat. The Seagate NAS drives are just as quiet running. There is a distinct spin up and seek is only audible literally with ear right next to the DS1813+. Temps have since stabilized after building the array and optimizing the file system. Amazingly, it about +4C over the previous setup. Oddly, the iSCSI Block-Level Target runs at the same temp in use as the 2.5". This leads me to believe the temp increase is more due to restricted air flow of 3.5" vs 2.5" drives. The drives are fast enough to saturate gigabit at +120MB/s for sustained transfers, both single drive (iSCSI) and RAID 6 (AFP & SMB) configurations. The drives have been running since Friday, so I can't comment on reliability.

WD Reds are not available in 4TB, so I ruled them out. WD SE drives appear to be the fastest NAS option at 4TB, but are $70-80 more than Seagate NAS because they are Enterprise drives like Seagate Constellation.
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post #3 of 53 Old 08-20-2013, 05:58 AM
 
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The Seagate NAS and the Seagate "standards" (the 5900 rpm drives) are both good options at 4TB. The NAS drives are better (quite a bit better in the reliability department from a theoretical standpoint) but they are more expensive ($212 vs $167) so it comes down to if you feel the extra money is worth it. If you think you are going to stress the drive at all (or just want to feel more secure) then go for the NAS version. $60 is small change for peace of mind.

This is from tweaktown (which has a good review that compares the two drives):
Quote:
I must admit, after receiving the press release for the NAS HDD, I thought this was just a rebadged Desktop HDD, but it's not. Seagate has taken much of what they have learned in the enterprise sector and applied it to a drive, which is in reach of the average consumer. We now have technology like dual plane balance and NASWorks that supports highly customized error recovery controls, power management and higher vibration tolerance catered just for the 24/7 high heat environment of your typical NAS appliance.

Performance of the NAS HDD was on par with the Desktop variant throughout most of our testing, and well ahead of the 1TB single platter WD Red NAS drive. Most notably the performance was a balanced effort between read and write speeds, this coming as a byproduct of Seagate's NASWorks technology.
Read more at http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5557/seagate-nas-hdd-st4000vn000-4000gb-hdd-review/index9.html#kEpV8JIXXuwUVmRL.99
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post #4 of 53 Old 08-20-2013, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls View Post

looking to get 1 or 2 big drives, either 3 or 4 TB
going thru the reviews is not helpful since all seem to have issues...
maybe some here know more about reliability or which to avoid
maybe which have low noise (i read WD reds and greens are the winners in this department)

WD 3TBgreen $116@frys, 3TBRed $135@Microcenter,
Hitachi/HGST 5400rpm 99$@frys, 7200rpm 120$
Toshiba
Seagate desktop vs NAS(seem to get better reviews)

Where are you seeing the 5400 rpm HGST drive for $99? I went to the Frys website, and they're listed for $179...

I've been using the HGST coolspin drives for a while now, and have had no issues. They're not as cool as the Samsung spinpoint eco drives were, but they seem to be performing well for me...
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post #5 of 53 Old 08-20-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

The Seagate NAS and the Seagate "standards" (the 5900 rpm drives) are both good options at 4TB. The NAS drives are better (quite a bit better in the reliability department from a theoretical standpoint) but they are more expensive ($212 vs $167) so it comes down to if you feel the extra money is worth it. If you think you are going to stress the drive at all (or just want to feel more secure) then go for the NAS version. $60 is small change for peace of mind.

This is from tweaktown (which has a good review that compares the two drives):
Read more at http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5557/seagate-nas-hdd-st4000vn000-4000gb-hdd-review/index9.html#kEpV8JIXXuwUVmRL.99


Strong post^

Interesting read. I did not know all that. I always viewed the RED as a rebadged GREEN drive. Interesting to see the Seagate NAS differences between those and normal Seagate drives. I am not sure I feel if the value is worth it, but I like knowing the differences greatly.

You should post this in the other thread about HDD's. This was a great post.

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post #6 of 53 Old 08-20-2013, 04:07 PM
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The best 4tb hdd to buy? The least expensive one you can get or better yet wait for deals.
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post #7 of 53 Old 08-21-2013, 12:07 PM
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I see they're same, 4 TB drives. When I buy 4TB drives, don't care much about the brand name, as long as it's cheap. With over 4TB 20 drives currently sitting on my media storage server, I bought them at $130. Only 1 4TB drive (7200rpm) I bought for the first time was at $140. That's it.
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post #8 of 53 Old 08-21-2013, 12:16 PM
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Im using 4TB 5900rpm segate drives and have been very happy so far. Came in an enclosure but was $90 at sams club (think price mistake) was pretty easy to take out of the enclosure.
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post #9 of 53 Old 08-21-2013, 05:03 PM
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Been using 2 of the 5900rpm drives for a couple months as well, no issues.
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post #10 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 05:36 AM
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Well for 4TB the choice is clear. Hitachi or Seagate.

WD doesn't offer any good 4TB drives for HTPC. In general they are expensive too.

The WD RED is highly over rated and generally a poor value and performer. The only reason to purchase I've ever seen is a mental fixation on the WD brand or if you want a RED colored label on your HDD.

It disappoints me WD drives suck these days.

I'd love to see a reasonable performance and reasonable priced 4TB or even 5TB HDD from WD.

Something that's a fast as the Seagate 4TB and costs about the same ($150)
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post #11 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 08:44 AM
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But right now the RED is $150.99 on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236344


And the Seagate NAS is $154

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178392

I think the Seagate is clearly the better drive for $4


Even if your a super customer like me biggrin.gif .... You only get discounts down to about $130 each with coupon codes:





The Seagate is available in 4TB for $20 more which is even better IMO

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post #12 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 11:52 AM
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Does the NAS model ST4000VN000 do the same audible load cycle every minute or so like the non-NAS ST4000DM000?
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post #13 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Does the NAS model ST4000VN000 do the same audible load cycle every minute or so like the non-NAS ST4000DM000?

Well nothing is going to click as loud or as often as a WD GREEN 3TB. At least not that I have tried. Those are the king of clicking. I can almost hear it outside.

The one GREEN 3TB in my server can be heard clicked above the 14 Seagate 3TB 7200.14's I have running in there.

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post #14 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Does the NAS model ST4000VN000 do the same audible load cycle every minute or so like the non-NAS ST4000DM000?

Well nothing is going to click as loud or as often as a WD GREEN 3TB. At least not that I have tried. Those are the king of clicking. I can almost hear it outside.

The one GREEN 3TB in my server can be heard clicked above the 14 Seagate 3TB 7200.14's I have running in there.

The load cycle behavior of the WD green drives can be set on a permanent basis with WDIDLE3. At least that has been true for the several 1 and 2 TB green drives I have. I've found no such program for the Seagates, nor is there updated firmware for the ST4000DM000 that might help. My WD green drives are inaudible in my quiet PC, even the seeks, and I don't recall looking for WDIDLE3 due to noise. The Seagate is totally different. The non-NAS ST4000DM000 in my file server emits a very audible chirp every minute or so, reminiscent of the laptop drives I hate, and I'm wondering if the NAS model ST4000VN000 does the same thing. The only thing I've found to help the non-NAS drive is disabling APM, but that has to be done every time the drive starts up.
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post #15 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 02:43 PM
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The 4TB Seagate NAS drive does not have the same load cycle behavior. My NAS has been up for over 5 days with 8 4TB Seagate NAS drives and the only noise was the initial power on of the drives which is definitely audible. The DS1813+ is in our master bedroom walk-in closet (door is always open), so any chirps or beeps would definitely be noticed at night.
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post #16 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 07:25 PM
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Good to know. I was thinking about replacing the two 2TB WD green drives in my main system with one 4 TB, and the drive needs to be silent as the system is right next to my desk, and I don't sleep the hard drives in it. The file server/gaming system is powered on a lot less, and I do sleep the non-NAS 4 TB drive in it, so its chirping really is just a minor nuisance for how I use it.
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post #17 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

The 4TB Seagate NAS ...-in closet
what temps are they running at?
and the other question is regarding the 5 drive limit in a NAS ?
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post #18 of 53 Old 08-22-2013, 09:42 PM
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29C to 31C in operation in the DS1813+ NAS with cooling profile set to quiet, which runs warmer.

The drive is certified in the DS1813+ which is an 8 bay NAS. The 1 - 5 bay is purely a recommendation to help the consumer distinguish between the NAS drive and Constellation class drive.


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post #19 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 05:24 AM
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If you want 4TB there's little to choose from since WD doesn't make a good one for a server or NAS.

Seagate 4TB either version should be a good choice, you will have to decide if the NAS version with extra year warranty is worth it?

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post #20 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 06:15 AM
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Does everyone with these huge servers back up each hard drive? meaning that you have the same data on two disks?

i have around 500 dvds, hd-dvds, and bluray discs that I've collected since 97, along with a few hundred CDs. it only takes up 10TB. I don't think there are enough movies in existence that I'd want to watch that could take up twice that.

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post #21 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 06:37 AM
 
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I use disParity RAID 6 solution. This means that all my drives are protected by a single parity drive. The parity drive must be the same size as the largest drive you are protecting. It is free, has a GUI, and works well.





EDIT:
OOPS, meant RAID 4
Quote:
A RAID 4 uses block-level striping with a dedicated parity disk. This allows each member of the set to act independently when only a single block is requested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID_4#RAID_4
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post #22 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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so with these parity, 1 drive of parity will recover any of the failed drives ?
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post #23 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I use disParity RAID 6 solution. This means that all my drives are protected by a single parity drive. The parity drive must be the same size as the largest drive you are protecting. It is free, has a GUI, and works well.

You mean RAID 5, right? Precisely speaking, it's not RAID 5, of course.
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post #24 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 07:15 AM
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so with these parity, 1 drive of parity will recover any of the failed drives ?

Yup, you can recover complete data in any single failed drive. Recovering from two simultaneous drive failures requires a dual parity solution such as SnapRAID and FlexRAID. Compare.
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post #25 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Does everyone with these huge servers back up each hard drive? meaning that you have the same data on two disks?

i have around 500 dvds, hd-dvds, and bluray discs that I've collected since 97, along with a few hundred CDs. it only takes up 10TB. I don't think there are enough movies in existence that I'd want to watch that could take up twice that.

I use SHR-2 with 7 4TB drives (plus one unprotected 4TB block level iSCSI LUN for a total of 8 drives) which is similar to RAID6 with two disk parity. Any two disk can fail simultaneously and the array will continue to function and can be rebuilt. RAID 6 is smart with more than 4 drives. RAID 1+0 is preferred for 4 drives. Max I would use RAID 5 is 5 drives.
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post #26 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bulls View Post

so with these parity, 1 drive of parity will recover any of the failed drives ?

Yes. I use flexraid

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post #27 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 12:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You mean RAID 5, right? Precisely speaking, it's not RAID 5, of course.

OOPS, meant RAID 4
Quote:
A RAID 4 uses block-level striping with a dedicated parity disk. This allows each member of the set to act independently when only a single block is requested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID_4#RAID_4
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post #28 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 01:15 PM
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As you know, disParity is close to but not RAID 4 in that it does not stripe data. smile.gif
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post #29 of 53 Old 08-26-2013, 08:42 PM
 
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As you know, disParity is close to but not RAID 4 in that it does not stripe data. smile.gif

True, but RAID 4 is probably the closest to it from the list of RAIDs. What would we call this type of parity thingy?
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post #30 of 53 Old 08-27-2013, 07:39 AM
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I think "RAID (Redundant Arrays of Independent Disks)" is still a good term because of "redundancy" by creating parity of a disk "array" (a linked group of disks). Just it does not stripe data across the disks so it does not fall into the traditional RAID category (0-6). Maybe "RAID 4-like RAID without data striping"?
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