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post #1 of 42 Old 08-25-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a GeForce 9500 GT with HDMI out.

Does anyone know if this also has HDMI audio?

If not, what's a good (reasonably priced) card I can use in my Windows Media Center (Win 7) PC that has audio on HDMI?

Thanks,
Allen
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post #2 of 42 Old 08-25-2013, 03:49 PM
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These have HDMI audio and work fine in an HTPC:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1485227/6450-vs-610
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post #3 of 42 Old 08-25-2013, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

These have HDMI audio and work fine in an HTPC:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1485227/6450-vs-610

Those seem very affordable. Would I get a better picture if I spent more? I guess when I thought cheap, I was thinking around $100 or so. I don't want to waste money, but if a few more bucks makes a difference, I'll do it.
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post #4 of 42 Old 08-25-2013, 05:07 PM
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As long as you aren't gaming, more money will make no difference. If spending $100 makes you feel better, then go for it.
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post #5 of 42 Old 08-25-2013, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

As long as you aren't gaming, more money will make no difference. If spending $100 makes you feel better, then go for it.
LOL... no not gaming. Just want to make sure I get the best picture.

Between the ASUS EAH6450 and the XFX HD-657X-ZDF2 which would you order. I like the ratings on the Asus card, but the XFX looks a little more powerful and has a lifetime warranty.

If it was your box, what would you do?
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post #6 of 42 Old 08-25-2013, 05:42 PM
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I like the former because it's silent. But you may prefer the latter if you'll ever want 3D or have a case with poor air flow.
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post #7 of 42 Old 08-25-2013, 06:52 PM
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If you want all the video features turned on, and turn off the "Enforce Smooth Playback" on a 6450, then the card will struggle in some cases. Leaving the Enforce Smooth Playback feature turned on will not allow you to turn all enhancements on.
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post #8 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Those seem very affordable. Would I get a better picture if I spent more? I guess when I thought cheap, I was thinking around $100 or so. I don't want to waste money, but if a few more bucks makes a difference, I'll do it.

Then I recommend HD 7770. PQ in SD upscaling under madVR is superb.
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post #9 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Then I recommend HD 7770. PQ in SD upscaling under madVR is superb.
Can't the $40 6570 do level 5 in MadVR? Why go any higher if not gaming?
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post #10 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Can't the $40 6570 do level 5 in MadVR? Why go any higher if not gaming?
I'd really like to know the answer to this one if possible. I have to order today.
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post #11 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 07:36 AM
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GPU requirement depends on the frame rate of the content. Higher frame rate means that GPU has to process each frame very quickly, so GPU has to have more shader units and video RAM has to be faster.

- MadVR Level 5 up to 30fps: HD 6570 / A8-6600K is enough.
- MadVR Level 5 up to 60fps: HD 7770 is minimum.

Look at this chart.
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post #12 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

GPU requirement depends on the frame rate of the content. Higher frame rate means that GPU has to process each frame very quickly, so GPU has to have more shader units and video RAM has to be faster.

- MadVR Level 5 up to 30fps: HD 6570 / A8-6600K is enough.
- MadVR Level 5 up to 60fps: HD 7770 is minimum.

Look at this chart.

Awesome Thanks!
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post #13 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 07:49 AM
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Chakotay, do you ever plan to actually use MadVR? If not, you don't need the extra horsepower and can save your money.
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post #14 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 08:01 AM
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In case you don't have a good idea on PQ of madVR, look at this (and subsequent) post.

If you play 1080p/i contents in a 1080p display, there is little difference, however.
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post #15 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

In case you don't have a good idea on PQ of madVR, look at this (and subsequent) post.

If you play 1080p/i contents in a 1080p display, there is little difference, however.
Even after reading that post, I am not sure. I'm using a WMC PC connected to a very high end HiDef TV. What's madVR?
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post #16 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 09:26 AM
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Video playback pipeline in Windows (mostly DirectShow) consists of several components:

- Source / splitter: reading the source and splitting video and audio (and subtitles). (Then video and audio are processed separately, then merged again at the output.)
- Decoder: decoding compressed video (almost every video contents are stored in a compressed format such as MPEG-2 and H.264)
- Video renderer: processing and rendering decoded video

madVR is a video renderer by madshi (a professional programmer; madVR is free, though) that do:

- high quality chroma upscaling (Bicubic, Lanczos, Jinc etc.)
- high quality image up/downscaling (Bicubic, Lanczos, Jinc etc.)
- high quality YCbCr -> RGB conversion
- gamut & gamma correction for display calibration
- and more.

If you don't use madVR, then perhaps you will use EVR (Enhanced Video Renderer) built in Windows that supports the above processes based on the graphics driver's algorithms via DXVA2.

WMC's internal player does not support madVR. You will have to launch an external player for this purpose. A media center with madVR built in is J.River Media Center.
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post #17 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Video playback pipeline in Windows (mostly DirectShow) consists of several components:

- Source / splitter: reading the source and splitting video and audio (and subtitles). (Then video and audio are processed separately, then merged again at the output.)
- Decoder: decoding compressed video (almost every video contents are stored in a compressed format such as MPEG-2 and H.264)
- Video renderer: processing and rendering decoded video

madVR is a video renderer by madshi (a professional programmer; madVR is free, though) that do:

- high quality chroma upscaling (Bicubic, Lanczos, Jinc etc.)
- high quality image up/downscaling (Bicubic, Lanczos, Jinc etc.)
- high quality YCbCr -> RGB conversion
- gamut & gamma correction for display calibration
- and more.

If you don't use madVR, then perhaps you will use EVR (Enhanced Video Renderer) built in Windows that supports the above processes based on the graphics driver's algorithms via DXVA2.

WMC's internal player does not support madVR. You will have to launch an external player for this purpose. A media center with madVR built in is J.River Media Center.

Ok, so if I play Blu Ray with PowerDVD would it need madVR?
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post #18 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Ok, so if I play Blu Ray with PowerDVD would it need madVR?
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

...If you play 1080p/i contents in a 1080p display, there is little difference...
MadVR upconverts. So think of the content you'll want to upconvert. If you can't think of any, you probably won't be using it.
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post #19 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 09:58 AM
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The player must support madVR.

Players supporting madVR:

Daum PotPlayer
KMPlayer
MPC-HC
MPC-BE
Zoom Player

Media centers supporting madVR:

JRiver Media Center

Players/media centers not supporting madVR:

PowerDVD
TotalMedia Theatre
WinDVD
GOM Player
ProgDVB
VLC
Widows Media Center (you can launch an external player supporting madVR of course)
Media Portal (the same as above)
XBMC (the same as above)

If your main source is 1080p (e.g. Blu-ray movies), then there is little difference between madVR and EVR, however.
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post #20 of 42 Old 08-26-2013, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The player must support madVR.

Players supporting madVR:

Daum PotPlayer
KMPlayer
MPC-HC
MPC-BE
Zoom Player

Media centers supporting madVR:

JRiver Media Center

Players/media centers not supporting madVR:

PowerDVD
TotalMedia Theatre
WinDVD
GOM Player
ProgDVB
VLC
Widows Media Center (you can launch an external player supporting madVR of course)
Media Portal (the same as above)
XBMC (the same as above)

If your main source is 1080p (e.g. Blu-ray movies), then there is little difference between madVR and EVR, however.

Thanks to all who contributed. Just ordered the XFX HD-657X-ZDF2.
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post #21 of 42 Old 08-28-2013, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Thanks to all who contributed. Just ordered the XFX HD-657X-ZDF2.

Ok, got it installed... Pioneer RCVR (SC-1522-K) shows PCM, but only getting 2 channel stereo. Went through the setup wizard in windows for 7.1, it does a test tone on all speakers but when I watch TV or Movies only sound out of front left and right.

Any ideas?
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post #22 of 42 Old 08-28-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

GPU requirement depends on the frame rate of the content. Higher frame rate means that GPU has to process each frame very quickly, so GPU has to have more shader units and video RAM has to be faster.

- MadVR Level 5 up to 30fps: HD 6570 / A8-6600K is enough.
- MadVR Level 5 up to 60fps: HD 7770 is minimum.

Look at this chart.

How come my lowly AMD 5450 can do 60fps 720p->1080p Lanczos3 scaling in EVR-CP or XBMC, but is a stuttering mess with MadVR and Lanczos3?
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post #23 of 42 Old 08-28-2013, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Thanks to all who contributed. Just ordered the XFX HD-657X-ZDF2.

Ok, got it installed... Pioneer RCVR (SC-1522-K) shows PCM, but only getting 2 channel stereo. Went through the setup wizard in windows for 7.1, it does a test tone on all speakers but when I watch TV or Movies only sound out of front left and right.

Any ideas?

You also have to configure the audio decoder of the player.
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post #24 of 42 Old 08-28-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

GPU requirement depends on the frame rate of the content. Higher frame rate means that GPU has to process each frame very quickly, so GPU has to have more shader units and video RAM has to be faster.

- MadVR Level 5 up to 30fps: HD 6570 / A8-6600K is enough.
- MadVR Level 5 up to 60fps: HD 7770 is minimum.

Look at this chart.

How come my lowly AMD 5450 can do 60fps 720p->1080p Lanczos3 scaling in EVR-CP or XBMC, but is a stuttering mess with MadVR and Lanczos3?

Because EVR vs madVR...? If you are asking why madVR is resource hungry, you'd better address it to the developer.
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post #25 of 42 Old 08-29-2013, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Because EVR vs madVR...? If you are asking why madVR is resource hungry, you'd better address it to the developer.
It's just such a huge difference though. My 5450 is smooth with every render out there besides MadVR, even with all the advanced settings turned down or off. It's like you need a graphics card 2 generations higher to get the same performance, or 4x higher to be able to use any of the advanced features. MadVR uses the same scalers as everyone else (besides Jinc) yet the performance is much worse on lower end gfx cards compared to EVR/XBMC. I can't even use DXVA scaling, the only one that plays smooth is bilinear (which is worthless).
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post #26 of 42 Old 08-29-2013, 05:42 AM
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post #27 of 42 Old 08-29-2013, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You also have to configure the audio decoder of the player.

I've went throught the Wizard on the Control Panel Sounds - that's set to 7.1, and I have went throught the Audio Setup in Windows Media Center, that's also set to 7.1.

When I do the audio test in the control panel, all 7+1 speakers are working so it's getting to the reciever. Is there anywhere else in WMC that I need to check, or anything on the Reciever I need to change?

With other inputs (optical out from TV for example) I can select different modes when hitting the standard button on the remote (such as dolby, etc.). When I hit that button on the remote in WMC I get Stereo or PCM. No other options.

Allen
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post #28 of 42 Old 08-29-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

I've went throught the Wizard on the Control Panel Sounds - that's set to 7.1, and I have went throught the Audio Setup in Windows Media Center, that's also set to 7.1.

When I do the audio test in the control panel, all 7+1 speakers are working so it's getting to the reciever. Is there anywhere else in WMC that I need to check, or anything on the Reciever I need to change?

With other inputs (optical out from TV for example) I can select different modes when hitting the standard button on the remote (such as dolby, etc.). When I hit that button on the remote in WMC I get Stereo or PCM. No other options.

Allen

Very counter-intuitive, but when I go through the Wizard in control panel, if I select 2 channel stereo instead of 7.1, now I get 7.1 in WMC?!?

Anyone understand why?
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post #29 of 42 Old 08-30-2013, 01:54 AM
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What are your sources (e.g. DVD, AVI, MKV, live TV) and audio formats (stereo PCM, multichannel PCM, AC3, Dolby TrueHD etc.)? WMC internal player is a bit complicated and there is no simple answer. That's why nobody uses it these days.
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post #30 of 42 Old 08-30-2013, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The player must support madVR.

Players supporting madVR:

Daum PotPlayer
KMPlayer
MPC-HC
MPC-BE
Zoom Player

Media centers supporting madVR:

JRiver Media Center

Players/media centers not supporting madVR:

PowerDVD
TotalMedia Theatre
WinDVD
GOM Player
ProgDVB
VLC
Widows Media Center (you can launch an external player supporting madVR of course)
Media Portal (the same as above)
XBMC (the same as above)

If your main source is 1080p (e.g. Blu-ray movies), then there is little difference between madVR and EVR, however.
Renethx, what did you mean when you said "main source is 1080p" here? Any other kind beside 1080p these days?
And therefore my question here is why we have to cling to madVR?
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