OTA tuner? - AVS Forum
Home Theater Computers > OTA tuner?
stepmback's Avatar stepmback 10:10 AM 08-26-2013
Looking at ota tuners for wmc. I don't use cable so ota is all I need. These will be used with wmc. I already have an hdhomerun dual but looking for more options for more tuners. Something with six tuners would be ideal then I would have to split my ota antenna line.

blueiedgod's Avatar blueiedgod 10:25 AM 08-26-2013
Get another HomeRun dual, luckily it on sale today for $51 at the egg using V.me coupon code.

We have 3 of them in a 6 tuner set up (along with Ceton InifniTV6 ETH).

You are not going to find more than 2 tuners per pakcage for ATSC, not yet. Maybe SiliconDust will finally release quad ATSC, maybe not.

Edit: You may need a drop amp to split your antenna signal, or signal amplifier and splitter. We have 2x of the older gray duals that have inputs for the individual tuners, and one of the newer single input tuners. 6 port drop amp works great with antenna input.

Multi-tuner units have internal splitters, it is not like singal is magically split between all the amps inside. You may be better off with smaller count tuners, so that you can contol signal drop with splitters/amps instead of locked down internal split.
signcarver's Avatar signcarver 10:48 AM 08-26-2013
I think the best you can do is get another dual (or 2) but if you think your network isn't up to it, a dedicated card might be better but in either case I have not seen more than 2 OTA tuners.. the only thing I have seen advertised recently as 4 tuners OTA is the new tivo,.. I take that back as there may be some commercial products that are way more expensive such as the HDRACK for $2000 which essentially is 4 tech versions of the dual but all that I have seen still tend to only allow 2 tuners on a single coax input.

Another problem is you stated that it was for WMC and though we all know we can bypass the 4 tuner of each type tuner limit, until windows 7, the limit was 2 tuners of each type so more than 2 never really took off except for cable card.

BTW Newegg has the dual for $57 today (cheaper with v.me but I don't know all the details about that code... I assume you have to use v.me to pay)


{changed prime to dual in first paragraph... just used to saying prime with SD's product}
gonzo90017's Avatar gonzo90017 04:46 PM 08-26-2013
There's also the Avermedia Duet A188.
stepmback's Avatar stepmback 08:08 AM 08-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

I think the best you can do is get another dual (or 2) but if you think your network isn't up to it, a dedicated card might be better but in either case I have not seen more than 2 OTA tuners.. the only thing I have seen advertised recently as 4 tuners OTA is the new tivo,.. I take that back as there may be some commercial products that are way more expensive such as the HDRACK for $2000 which essentially is 4 tech versions of the dual but all that I have seen still tend to only allow 2 tuners on a single coax input.

Another problem is you stated that it was for WMC and though we all know we can bypass the 4 tuner of each type tuner limit, until windows 7, the limit was 2 tuners of each type so more than 2 never really took off except for cable card.

BTW Newegg has the dual for $57 today (cheaper with v.me but I don't know all the details about that code... I assume you have to use v.me to pay)


{changed prime to dual in first paragraph... just used to saying prime with SD's product}

Is there a limit to the number of tuners WMC can use? I have WMC setup on Windows 7 and Windows 8. Right now I just have one HDHomerun Dual, but am considering adding two more for a total of 6 tuners. Would I be able to utilize all the tuners from my three machines via WMC?
blueiedgod's Avatar blueiedgod 10:03 AM 08-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepmback View Post

Is there a limit to the number of tuners WMC can use? I have WMC setup on Windows 7 and Windows 8. Right now I just have one HDHomerun Dual, but am considering adding two more for a total of 6 tuners. Would I be able to utilize all the tuners from my three machines via WMC?

The quesiton you asked was answered in the post you quoted. There is a limit, but it can be easily defeated. Google "tuner salad"
signcarver's Avatar signcarver 12:45 PM 08-27-2013
In windows 7 there is a limit of 4 tuners of each type (off the top of my head I can't remember if under Win 7 if ATSC and clear qam are counted as the same type... I tend to think 4 analog, 4 digital and 4 cablecard but that 4 digital might be 4 ATSC and 4 clear qam). but as stated, this limit can be overcome. More than 4 streams of OTA to a single computer might be a little more than your network can handle (gigabit should be fine).
el_kano's Avatar el_kano 01:02 PM 08-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

In windows 7 there is a limit of 4 tuners of each type (off the top of my head I can't remember if under Win 7 if ATSC and clear qam are counted as the same type... I tend to think 4 analog, 4 digital and 4 cablecard but that 4 digital might be 4 ATSC and 4 clear qam). but as stated, this limit can be overcome. More than 4 streams of OTA to a single computer might be a little more than your network can handle (gigabit should be fine).

The limit is for WMC, not windows 7 as other DVR applications can handle any amount of tuners. The limit is more likely to be the hard drive where the recordings are being stored as you may saturate the capacity. I know of at least one person who was recording 6 tuners to a single drive without incident, but depending on the drive YMMV.

And for sure, if they plan to stream Live TV to 5-6 computers they may have network difficulties.
Postmoderndesign's Avatar Postmoderndesign 01:09 PM 08-27-2013
Newegg sold out of the HDHomerun dual deal. It was the HDHR3 which I have used for a while now and it has worked well.
gonzo90017's Avatar gonzo90017 01:33 PM 08-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_kano View Post

The limit is for WMC, not windows 7 as other DVR applications can handle any amount of tuners. The limit is more likely to be the hard drive where the recordings are being stored as you may saturate the capacity. I know of at least one person who was recording 6 tuners to a single drive without incident, but depending on the drive YMMV.

And for sure, if they plan to stream Live TV to 5-6 computers they may have network difficulties.
Shouldn't be a problem. In a couple of occasions i've done this with no issues using MediaPortal.
Charles R's Avatar Charles R 02:25 PM 08-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_kano View Post

And for sure, if they plan to stream Live TV to 5-6 computers they may have network difficulties.

 

Recording 4 tuners my HTPC reports its network load at roughly 6 percent (Gigabit of course). Drive wise a lowly USB 2.0 external drive can easily handle 4 recordings.


el_kano's Avatar el_kano 02:26 PM 08-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo90017 View Post

Shouldn't be a problem. In a couple of occasions i've done this with no issues using MediaPortal.

Good to know, I have only streamed to 3 computers at once so haven't checked network statistics when doing as much as 6.
Or were you talking hard drive capacity?
gonzo90017's Avatar gonzo90017 11:52 PM 08-27-2013
I was referring to hard drive capacity.
blueiedgod's Avatar blueiedgod 11:08 AM 08-28-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by el_kano View Post

The limit is for WMC, not windows 7 as other DVR applications can handle any amount of tuners. The limit is more likely to be the hard drive where the recordings are being stored as you may saturate the capacity. I know of at least one person who was recording 6 tuners to a single drive without incident, but depending on the drive YMMV.

And for sure, if they plan to stream Live TV to 5-6 computers they may have network difficulties.

Recording 12 channels and streaming to 6 TVs (1 connected directly + 5 extenders) resulted in 20 MB/s hard drive write speeds, and 250 mbps network stream.
scott750's Avatar scott750 05:09 PM 08-31-2013
I really wish mfg's would come out with an OTA tuner with more than 2 tuners built in. I'm running 3 Hauppaugge 2250's in my HTPC just to get plenty of tuners, which means I had to build a huge full-size ATX HTPC, instead a nice small mini-itx machine.

I don't suppose the Caton infinitv 6 can support ATSC? Probably not.
gonzo90017's Avatar gonzo90017 10:23 PM 08-31-2013
+1 especially now that 4 tuner cable card tuners have been out for a while. I'm looking at you Avermedia!
Mike99's Avatar Mike99 01:28 AM 09-01-2013
I use two of the AVerMedia Duet tuners. Both the white box & full version have disappeared from their website. First they told me they were discontinued, then they said they were just out of them. But both Amazon & Newegg have them for $50. Amazon has free shipping.

Everyone use to recommend the white box version because it was cheaper & you didn't want to use the AVermedia recording software because WMC was better. The white box version use to cost about $65 on sale. Now the full version goes for $50. I'm told the hardware is the same for both.

For $100 you get 4 tuners.
gonzo90017's Avatar gonzo90017 03:23 PM 09-01-2013
Yup. I'm using 3 white box versions in my Mediaportal server. I purchased 2 for $60 each some years ago from Newegg (one kept disappearing and had to send to Avermedia for repair). I then bought a couple of white box versions from a forum user for $25 each. He could never get them to work on his AMD system. I was planning on sending back to Avermedia to have them repaired. But I never got around to it and they just sat in a box. (I also had an AMD system). Eventually I got my hands on a Intel system with 3 PCI-E slots so I decide to try out the tuners there. To my suprise they worked perfectly.

I just wish I could replace all 3 or at least 2 with one 4 or 6 tuner version. It would really cut down on space, heat, etc. Not really an issue since i'm using the Define R4 but would be really useful when building using Micro ATX cases.
Mike99's Avatar Mike99 03:46 AM 09-02-2013
Do you have any idea what Avermedia did to repair your tuner?

The first white box I got from walmart.com for $65, same price as Newegg. I figured if it did not work it would be easy to return to the store. Then the availability of new ones dried up so I got a second white box from ebay for $51. These both work in my Intel G620 HTPC.

Then one day Amazon had new ones for $50 for the full retail version so I bought one for a spare. Maybe I should try it to make sure it works.
captain_video's Avatar captain_video 07:09 AM 09-02-2013
I've been using two Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250's plus a HDHomeRun Dual in my HTPC with no problems. The Hauppauge is an excellent dual ATSC tuner and is still in production.
Mike99's Avatar Mike99 12:55 PM 09-02-2013
I'm not sure if the AverMedia Duet is considered still in production. I saved their old email reply from 10-15-2012 which states:
"Sorry for the incorrect info, MTVHDDUET will be an ongoing model but it's in shortage at this moment."

Amazon & Newegg have it but AverMedia's website does not list it. I have no idea what's going on & apparently neither does AverMedia.
gonzo90017's Avatar gonzo90017 01:43 PM 09-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

Do you have any idea what Avermedia did to repair your tuner?

The first white box I got from walmart.com for $65, same price as Newegg. I figured if it did not work it would be easy to return to the store. Then the availability of new ones dried up so I got a second white box from ebay for $51. These both work in my Intel G620 HTPC.

Then one day Amazon had new ones for $50 for the full retail version so I bought one for a spare. Maybe I should try it to make sure it works.

I have no idea. The rumor was that they used some cheap parts hence the reason for the low price. It was said that they realized their mistakes and replaced those parts in future production runs. So it looks like only the first production runs suffered from this issue.
Jackal55's Avatar Jackal55 07:49 PM 09-02-2013
I've been using two Duets (white box) since they were released. They are still running fine. I don't know why Avermedia got rid of them.
blueiedgod's Avatar blueiedgod 10:21 AM 09-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott750 View Post

I really wish mfg's would come out with an OTA tuner with more than 2 tuners built in. I'm running 3 Hauppaugge 2250's in my HTPC just to get plenty of tuners, which means I had to build a huge full-size ATX HTPC, instead a nice small mini-itx machine.

I don't suppose the Caton infinitv 6 can support ATSC? Probably not.

InfiniTV does not support ATSC.

But, instead of 3x Hauppauges, you could have done the same with 3x SiliconDust HomeRun Duals. Works just as well as Single InifniTV6 ETH.
scott750's Avatar scott750 08:27 AM 09-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

InfiniTV does not support ATSC.

But, instead of 3x Hauppauges, you could have done the same with 3x SiliconDust HomeRun Duals. Works just as well as Single InifniTV6 ETH.

I did consider the HomeRun duals, but at the time, 2010 when I built my HTPC, the Hauppaugge hvr- 2250's were the only ota tuners on the market so I go 2 of them. Recently when I refreshed my HTPC, I bought a 3rd 2250,realizing later on there were the HomeRun duals out on the market. But I would ultimately like to go down to a mini-itx MB to reduce my HTPC size. But I can't do that until I only have 1 pci-e card. It would be nice if the more of micro-atx boards came with high ends features like more 1x pci-e slots and a ton of Sata ports, like full-size Atx boards.
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