Why don't we crowdfund our own HTPC case? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post

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Originally Posted by jamawass View Post

I assume you don't watch Cable TV.
I do. My two Ceton cards are in the server. In our world, an "HTPC" is never complete without lots of storage, and putting that storage right next to the TV/Display is counter productive. Hence the server. The "HTPC" really needs to be tiny.

Why?

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by EricN View Post

Why would this be a bad thing? You get your case sooner and cheaper. You were crowdfunding it in the first place to spread the production risk. If a manufacturer wants to take on all the risk and provide all the capital, you would really complain about them using your design? Ideas are cheap. Turning them into reality is valuable.

I agree 100%

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

That TV looks 30 feet off the ground.. lol

how high is it ?

It's a 2 story vaulted ceiling. Tv is no higher than any other tv typically mounted over a fireplace.

Edit: here's another view

Sorry for the OT comment but how did you anchor the mount to the rock? I'm in earthquake country and my fireplace is real rock and not thin set veneer. I am looking for a solution to do this when I upgrade the TV and fix the fireplace so it actually draws and doesn't fill the room with smoke. The other thing I need to do is mount my center channel too.

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:43 AM
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Sorry for the OT comment but how did you anchor the mount to the rock? I'm in earthquake country and my fireplace is real rock and not thin set veneer. I am looking for a solution to do this when I upgrade the TV and fix the fireplace so it actually draws and doesn't fill the room with smoke. The other thing I need to do is mount my center channel too.

My guess is the contractor did that when he built the house for him recently. It's easy if you have new construction to plan for such things.

In your case,

You need a tool that can nail into rock or concrete. The one I have works on 22 bullets, you just load one in and BOOM it pounds the nail right into the stone. Works like a charm. I have gone into every hard surface you can imagine with it. Just wear ear plugs.

I have a cheap RAMSET

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-Hammer-Shot-0-22-Caliber-Single-Shot-Tool-00022/100091715#.UidwEaubaWw

But they make them much fancier than mine (only $20) if you desire.

They sell loads in different strengths (colors) I know them as green, red, ect... I usually try one and if it's too strong I go weaker, if too weak I go stronger. If you don't wan to get them all just use medium.

The strong is very strong. It will pound a construction spike clean through a 2x4, even the head... right through into the surface behind it. But of coarse that's just wood, and you need that power for rock or concrete.
The powerful ones are so powerful and fast they do not crack your concrete or hard surfaces- which is what you want. Better than pre-drilling with a concrete drill bit and using concrete bolts (which also works) IMO

Ever seen the sword in the stone ??? Ever wonder how that sword got there ??? Obviously they used a Ramset. biggrin.gif

It's not hard. It's not expensive. The earphones cost more than the tool or loads do. tongue.gif I've used it without ear protection, which is clearly not advisable. Ringing of the ears will occur. It's louder than most guns in reality, since there is less to sound deaden it- and it's close to you.

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:49 AM
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I'm thinking more along the lines of Hilti Kwik Bolt or an epoxy anchor. Above the rock portion it is plaster over red brick over fire liner brick. It'll be a fun job. I'm actually more concerned about the center channel than anything else. Currently my 40" sits on a small table in front of the non-functional fireplace. I'm looking to go to 60" next. There's no other electronics as my HTPC is in a custom built cabinet with the AVR and the HDTV is fed by a nice 25' monoprice HDMI cable which I have done a decent job of hiding but somehow needs to go in that brick/stucco construction. UGH!

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:51 AM
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Tapcons work, and can be screwed out years down the road.

Removal of a ramset fastener usually destroys the surface, so you might want to give some consideration there.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Tapcons work, and can be screwed out years down the road.

Removal of a ramset fastener usually destroys the surface, so you might want to give some consideration there.

This is a good point.

It's intended not to be "undone"

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:12 PM
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Tapcon Screws have very low listed values and are not listed at all for use in veneer, rock, masonry or brick. I am not sure if I want them holding up my expensive TV if they cannot pass testing in controlled situations.

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Old 09-04-2013, 09:56 PM
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A flat screen hdtv hardly qualifies as a demanding load. And Tapcons are listed for brick and block.

As for not being intended to be "undone", wouldn't be betting against 4K, and increasing hdtv sizes at ever cheaper prices?
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

A flat screen hdtv hardly qualifies as a demanding load. And Tapcons are listed for brick and block.

As for not being intended to be "undone", wouldn't be betting against 4K, and increasing hdtv sizes at ever cheaper prices?

But the mount would remain after the TV was replaced

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Old 09-05-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

But the mount would remain after the TV was replaced

My current and past TVs didn't have compatible mounting systems. You can't get a new TV that is smaller than the old TV can you?

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Old 09-05-2013, 07:00 AM
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Not necessarily, if you upgrade to a larger hdtv. That larger hdtv might very well require a
new wall mount, or a higher relocation of the existing wall mount.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:12 AM
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You can't get a new TV that is smaller than the old TV can you?

Nope, that would violate a fundamental law of nature.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:15 AM
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Nope, that would violate a fundamental law of nature.

I think the law only allows for greater than or equal to in certain extreme cases.

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Old 09-05-2013, 09:06 AM
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I think the law only allows for greater than or equal to in certain extreme cases.

Only as long as it's thinner.

I think based on this thread we should crowdsource a brick/stone fireplace mounting kit.

 

 

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Old 09-05-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bryansj View Post

My current and past TVs didn't have compatible mounting systems. You can't get a new TV that is smaller than the old TV can you?


You can not go smaller. No. That is impossible.


You would need to turn in your man card

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGKsZuq9YoAusqVBskaFP2ioCwmnI_kB03DqnlAdTpjjducQWXAw
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:28 AM
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Only as long as it's thinner.

I think based on this thread we should crowdsource a brick/stone fireplace mounting kit.

Makes more sense and easier to agree upon than a HTPC case tongue.gif

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Old 09-05-2013, 11:35 AM
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In my experience, no you won't get agreement on an HTPC case any more than you will what an HTPC is. If you can cover 80% of the functionality you're targeting then you're doing good. Every design will have a compromise or showstopper for someone.

In my case (pun intended), it's: small, nice looking (to me that's brushed aluminum) so it can be displayed on a shelf, low-power/efficient, inexpensive to ship and with or without an ODD. There are plenty of HTPC builds that won't fit into the little cases but that's ok. I've told plenty of people who want 2 x 3.5" or a large GPU that it's just not going to work for them.

 

 

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

A flat screen hdtv hardly qualifies as a demanding load. And Tapcons are listed for brick and block.

As for not being intended to be "undone", wouldn't be betting against 4K, and increasing hdtv sizes at ever cheaper prices?

In a high seismic region the load can be triple or more the weight of the TV in an earthquake and no they are not listed for use in anything but concrete..

When you read the listing report it is only giving values in concrete and not any other substrate so by elimination they are not listed for use in anything but concrete.

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:53 PM
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Makes more sense and easier to agree upon than a HTPC case tongue.gif

My next HTPC might be in a server chassis or a rack mount style. If not- it will be component like Silverstone grandia, I'll locate it custom insert into AV rack with Amps, AVR etc...

I will want a GPU that can do 4k and 3D for sure.

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

In a high seismic region the load can be triple or more the weight of the TV in an earthquake and no they are not listed for use in anything but concrete..

When you read the listing report it is only giving values in concrete and not any other substrate so by elimination they are not listed for use in anything but concrete.

Does it have to be removable ?

What exactly is the surface ?

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Old 09-05-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

A flat screen hdtv hardly qualifies as a demanding load. And Tapcons are listed for brick and block.

As for not being intended to be "undone", wouldn't be betting against 4K, and increasing hdtv sizes at ever cheaper prices?

In a high seismic region the load can be triple or more the weight of the TV in an earthquake and no they are not listed for use in anything but concrete..

When you read the listing report it is only giving values in concrete and not any other substrate so by elimination they are not listed for use in anything but concrete.
And this report deals with Tapcons in brick: http://www.confast.com/articles/tapcon-screws-in-brick
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:10 PM
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My next HTPC might be in a server chassis or a rack mount style. If not- it will be component like Silverstone grandia, I'll locate it custom insert into AV rack with Amps, AVR etc...

I will want a GPU that can do 4k and 3D for sure.

I hope you're watching a 120" display from ~12 ft away for 4K to be worth it.

Oh, and there's that minor problem with 4K...no content. I'm sure that will change....in 2023. It took us a decade to go from mainstream DVD content to HD/BD content.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:26 PM
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I hope you're watching a 120" display from ~12 ft away for 4K to be worth it.

It's up to him to buy/desire whatever he wants and use it any way he sees fit. Regardless of whether you or others deem it 'appropriate use/a waste of money'. I know of the whole viewing distance thing; but people need to stop with this attitude of "you're all doing it wrong, I'm the only one who's right/I know better than everyone" that is pervasive throughout this entire community. Cue the 'I've become exactly what I'm talking about by telling you what to do' argument :P

This wasn't really against you at all, just to make that clear; and I meant no offense. It's just what came to mind reading that comment which irked me a little bit.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:04 PM
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I hope you're watching a 120" display from ~12 ft away for 4K to be worth it.
I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. Resolution depends entirely on how much of your field of view the display takes up, and how good your vision is. It doesn't matter if it's a 120" display or a 20" display if they both fill the same FoV.

120" at 12ft = 20" at 2ft, or 60" at 6ft. I have a ~50" 1080p display and desperately need 4K - it's really obvious that it needs a lot more resolution when using it as a monitor at a distance, when compared to the Retina MacBook on my lap.
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Oh, and there's that minor problem with 4K...no content. I'm sure that will change....in 2023. It took us a decade to go from mainstream DVD content to HD/BD content.
Anything you can do on a PC benefits from 4K, and madVR should do a very nice job upscaling 1080p video to 4K. The desktop, photos, games etc. will all be native 4K content. There are consumer 4K cameras, and 4K content on sites like YouTube and Vimeo already. In fact, companies like Netflix and Apple are set up in such a way that they could deliver 4K content before broadcast or a disc format gets worked out.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:16 PM
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I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. Resolution depends entirely on how much of your field of view the display takes up, and how good your vision is. It doesn't matter if it's a 120" display or a 20" display if they both fill the same FoV.

120" at 12ft = 20" at 2ft, or 60" at 6ft. I have a ~50" 1080p display and desperately need 4K - it's really obvious that it needs a lot more resolution when using it as a monitor at a distance, when compared to the Retina MacBook on my lap.
Anything you can do on a PC benefits from 4K, and madVR should do a very nice job upscaling 1080p video to 4K. The desktop, photos, games etc. will all be native 4K content. There are consumer 4K cameras, and 4K content on sites like YouTube and Vimeo already. In fact, companies like Netflix and Apple are set up in such a way that they could deliver 4K content before broadcast or a disc format gets worked out.

It's not feasible for Netflix or Apple to deliver 4k content because the bandwidth requirements would be too much. Their HD content is already seriously compressed, 25GB files down to just 4GB. Without fiber we simply don't have the network infrastructure to make 4k streaming/downloading a reality. Every cable company places a limit on data usage, mines 250GB and I routinely go over it, to this point Cox hasn't forced me to upgrade or charged me extra but judging from their emails that day could be soon. Any service that would stand a chance would need the cable companies to be on board and they'd charge a fee.

I wish Google would just run fiber in every town. We badly need to increase the capacity of our infrastructure.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:41 AM
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It's not feasible for Netflix or Apple to deliver 4k content because the bandwidth requirements would be too much. Their HD content is already seriously compressed, 25GB files down to just 4GB.
If you can deliver 4GB 1080p files, you can deliver 4K at 8GB. Move to H.265 and you can reduce the size or increase the quality. Not everyone has bandwidth limits. And as I said, sites like YouTube and Vimeo are already delivering 4K content.
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I wish Google would just run fiber in every town. We badly need to increase the capacity of our infrastructure.
While fiber would be great, I'd rather not have my internet connection run by an advertising company that has no regard for user privacy.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:39 AM
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"Isn't that just an Intel NUC? "

Well, kind of. Make the NUC less than a $100 and we'll talk. At $300, Intel's dreaming. And the case is still ugly. It needs to be prettier.

I think a NUC with a SATA port and space for a 2.5" SSD (mSATA is still a bit too limited in choice for me), space for an internal IR receiver, and a more living-room friendly case would be a great little HTPC client.

As others have stated, most of us separate our HTPC clients (connected to our displays and amps) from our media storage (and TV tuner solutions if TV is included)

Everytime I look at the NUCs and the Brixs (Brii? Brixen?) I come to the conclusion that the Mac Mini looks like a better solution, and quite cost effective. I wouldn't run OS X on it.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:44 AM
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If you can deliver 4GB 1080p files, you can deliver 4K at 8GB. Move to H.265 and you can reduce the size or increase the quality. Not everyone has bandwidth limits. And as I said, sites like YouTube and Vimeo are already delivering 4K content.
While fiber would be great, I'd rather not have my internet connection run by an advertising company that has no regard for user privacy.

Sony have just announced a 4K download service. $30 to buy a 4k movie, less to rent.

In the UK fibre-to-the-cabinet is becoming quite widespread (the final leg from the roadside cabinet to the house is VDSL2 over existing phone lines which run via the cabinet). This is delivering around 80Mbs to the home and is being rolled out quite quickly via a number of providers (though not in my street yet... My father has it though - and it is a huge improvement over our current regular ADSL2 18Mbs service delivered using conventional ADSL kit at the phone exchange) Decent providers will have a properly unlimited data option - and some have now announced they are ditching traffic management (where certain types of traffic were throttled during peak times)
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. Resolution depends entirely on how much of your field of view the display takes up, and how good your vision is. It doesn't matter if it's a 120" display or a 20" display if they both fill the same FoV.

120" at 12ft = 20" at 2ft, or 60" at 6ft. I have a ~50" 1080p display and desperately need 4K - it's really obvious that it needs a lot more resolution when using it as a monitor at a distance, when compared to the Retina MacBook on my lap.
Anything you can do on a PC benefits from 4K, and madVR should do a very nice job upscaling 1080p video to 4K. The desktop, photos, games etc. will all be native 4K content. There are consumer 4K cameras, and 4K content on sites like YouTube and Vimeo already. In fact, companies like Netflix and Apple are set up in such a way that they could deliver 4K content before broadcast or a disc format gets worked out.

True, but no one (except maybe young children) is going to sit 3.5 feet away from a 55 inch screen so they can gain the benefits of 4K / UHD. A PC makes sense like you said, but a TV does not.



For the benefit of all, here is a brief write up about it (including info from Sony). I am going to end up going 4K once it becomes mainstream simply so I can show 4K movies in their native resolution (native as in how they sell it to me on the disc). The same reason I went 1080 when everything was still 720. Of course, now that I use a projector and a large screen, I will gain some benefit from 4K.

Quote:
Will I be Able to Notice the Additional Resolution?

To be able to detect the additional resolution of 4k (or 8k), the screen must be large enough and you must sit close enough. So how do you know if your particular setup would benefit? Here’s your answer.

Based on the resolving ability of the human eye (with 20/20 vision it is possible to resolve 1/60th of a degree of an arc), it is possible to estimate when 4k resolution will become apparent for the average eyeball. Using the Home Theater Calculator spreadsheet as a base, I created a chart showing, for any given screen size, how close you need to sit to be able to detect some or all of the benefits of a higher resolution screen.

What the chart shows is that, for a 84-inch screen, 4k resolution isn’t fully apparent until you are at least 5.5 feet or closer to the screen. For a “tiny” 55-inch screen, you’ll need to be 3.5 feet or closer. Needless to say, most consumers aren’t going to sit close enough to see any of extra resolution 4k offers, much less 8k.

It’s important to note that research by Bernard Lechner (former VP of RCA Laboratories) found that the average viewing distance of American TV viewers to be 9 feet. This is substantially farther than the 5.5 foot distance required to fully resolve 4k screens. I don’t see people rearranging their living rooms to take advantage of the otherwise unnoticeable UHD resolution benefits.

Verification of Calculations by Sony

It’s interesting to note that Sony lists identical required viewing distances in the Frequently Asked Questions section of their product description. Checkout the Amazon.com product description FAQ for the Sony 65X900A 4k Ultra HDTV. It shows the same distances I have calculated (i.e. 3.6 feet for a 55″ screen and 4.2 feet for a 65″ screen.) If you don’t believe my numbers, confirmation from Sony should help convince you.


Quote from Sony FAQ:
How close to the TV must I sit to appreciate 4K?

The short answer is that between 5 and 6 ft. is the ideal viewing distance for a 55” or 65” Sony 4K Ultra HD TV. However, on a 55“, you can now sit as close as 3.6 ft and enjoy a visibly smoother and more detailed picture (e.g you won’t see the individual pixels). On a 65“ TV, you can sit as close as 4.2 ft. to appreciate 4K.
http://carltonbale.com/?s=4k&x=0&y=0

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