Looks like no Android on the Ceton Echo - AVS Forum
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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http://cetoncorp.com/blog/ceton-echo-android/
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:40 PM
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There are so many better solutions to this than abandoning the project. Ship new units with Android already on them, and offer a program where you send yours in to get flashed, and if something goes wrong, Ceton can fix it there.

This was really the last hope we had for a truly unified experience that wasn't vendor-locked across the board, and for Ceton to abandon it like this is pretty lame. Why would they throw away nearly a year of software development and testing?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:55 PM
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Can't say that I am surprised at all. Almost ten months since release with nothing but silence since may.
The entire project seemed iffy at best. The bigger question that now comes to mind is who the hell does Ceton have developing their architecture maps. One has to question of anything that they develop from this point forward can be trusted.
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In search of video bliss...
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:57 PM
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Serious incompetence from the beginning...
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:04 PM
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Serious incompetence from the beginning...

That's a bit strong, but I wouldn't argue if you said they were overly ambitious.

I'm just hoping that they can at least go back to fixing the WMC Extender firmware even if it doesn't ever get Andriod (which I never cared about in the first place)

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:36 PM
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I'm just hoping that they can at least go back to fixing the WMC Extender firmware even if it doesn't ever get Andriod (which I never cared about in the first place)

I hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling that it will take them months just to tell that they can't fix any of your problems after all. They seem to be putting all the blame on "third-parties" and not accepting any responsibility at all. Ceton were the ones who originally chose/switched the chipset after all.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:35 PM
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I suspect we're not quite hearing the full story. I wonder if they were having significant problems getting it working well. One of the posters over at TBG said he was a beta tester and indicated that you needed a mouse and keyboard (or a mobile app) to control the Android apps. That wouldn't have worked very well. It was actually my biggest concern about the Android project. I thought they'd get out the Android firmware relatively quickly, but I thought there was a good chance that controlling apps would be a problem.

Anyways, this doesn't bode well for Ceton's longer-term future. With the lack of progress on the WMC front, and almost all indications suggesting that MS will simply let WMC die off slowly, business at Ceton probably isn't great. If, as I think most of us suspect, the Xbox One does not function as an extender, that's just going to cripple the WMC even more. Some WMC fans might go to the Echo, but with its history I think even the most die-hard fans will have pause. I always thought Ceton's only long-term hope in the consumer space was to branch out to providing extenders, tuners and other tools to other DVR and media software. Getting Android on the Echo, and opening the door to Plex, MediaPortal, NextPVR, MythTV, etc. apps, seemed like an important step. I guess they can sell some tuners to folks using that software (the ones that support CC tuners, at least), but I suspect SiliconDust has a slightly better hold on that market.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:20 PM
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CableCARD is dying off with Microsoft WMC. No one else has released a platform with DRM for DVR. Ceton would have to invest in building that out. Even if they use XBMC or similar as the front end. SiliconDust has the advantage because they have DLNA support in their tuners, although its a short term and limited solution.

It's a sad day to start the long weekend.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:43 AM
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I wouldn't say "death of CableCARD" just yet. The new Tivo box looks outstanding and it still has a huge mindshare. My own mother in law is a die hard Tivo fan and will have nothing else.

Death of WMC, perhaps, but not CC.

With that said, the no Android on Echo is a huge loss. The future of Ceton is a huge question mark as their fate is still 100% tied to WMC.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

I wouldn't say "death of CableCARD" just yet. The new Tivo box looks outstanding and it still has a huge mindshare. My own mother in law is a die hard Tivo fan and will have nothing else.

Death of WMC, perhaps, but not CC.

With that said, the no Android on Echo is a huge loss. The future of Ceton is a huge question mark as their fate is still 100% tied to WMC.

Well, I wouldn't go that far...

http://cetoncorp.com/commercial-products/

-- Jim
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:44 AM
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Can't say that I am surprised at all. Almost ten months since release with nothing but silence since may.
The entire project seemed iffy at best. The bigger question that now comes to mind is who the hell does Ceton have developing their architecture maps. One has to question of anything that they develop from this point forward can be trusted.
I wouldn't go that far. Their cablecard tuner products have been outstanding. The Echo was a bit more ambitious and was released far too early. They just got ahead of themselves when they announced that Android would be available in the near future when it hadn't been fully tested yet. Making promises you can't keep never ends well for any company. Personally, I think they should abandon the Echo project and move on. It was basically a product nobody really wanted anyway, at least not with the same limited capabilities of earlier extenders.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

I wouldn't say "death of CableCARD" just yet. The new Tivo box looks outstanding and it still has a huge mindshare. My own mother in law is a die hard Tivo fan and will have nothing else.

Death of WMC, perhaps, but not CC.

With that said, the no Android on Echo is a huge loss. The future of Ceton is a huge question mark as their fate is still 100% tied to WMC.

Tivo has less than 1 million subscribers so any mindshare over the years has been withered away. Their entire purpose is to create patents and license their technology.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:41 AM
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It was basically a product nobody really wanted anyway, at least not with the same limited capabilities of earlier extenders.

 

Not in my case. I wanted nothing but an extender knowing full well as I have posted on several occasions they couldn't do other things as well or better than the big boys. If it was a nice extender I'd own three of them. Of course their market and time frame is limited making it even more silly trying to duplicate (play other media) what has already been done. Having a large chunk of a small market (extenders) is much better than having zero market of a larger one.

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Old 08-31-2013, 08:46 AM
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Tivo has less than 1 million subscribers so any mindshare over the years has been withered away.


3.62 million at last count and with the Roamio (four tuners and support for Minis) it's just beginning for OTA fans.

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Old 08-31-2013, 09:19 AM
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WMC and TiVo are the only viable CableCARD options. The was the promised extender with great file support, compact size, silent, energy efficient that would keep WMC competitive for DVR with cable boxes and TiVo. IMHO, centralized guide and recordings are a must for DVRs. Keyboard and mouse free is also a must.

WMC is dying for sure. Centralized guide and recording is only available with extenders. The Xbox360 is still the best extender, but is power hungry, noisy, and limited file format support. It's also being replaced by the XboxOne with no extender functionality announced.

TiVo has not been an option for me since Series 2. However I am seriously considering the Roamio with Minis. The problem is there is not a nice media library option and no DLNA support. You have to use pyTivo to automate uploading to the DVR, then delete after watching.

I will probably end up without an HTPC and move TiVo and streamer or Blu-ray with DLNA. I just can't find enough solid information on the library functionality of these devices. Anything close to XBMC / MediaBrowser / Plex?
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:20 AM
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3.62 million at last count and with the Roamio (four tuners and support for Minis) it's just beginning for OTA fans.

981,000 for their Tivo service, not including MSO's. That's their lowest in a long time.
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:37 AM
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Sad to hear that, it had some potential but just didnt quite deliver. Wonder how much the price will drop to now?
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:24 PM
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Echo just crashed again this morning. Combined with last night's announcememt I've had it with Cable TV and protected content.

The wife is firmly behind TiVo Roamio with Minis. I guess the WMC HTPC will get converted to an XBMC box.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:13 PM
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If you've "had it with Cable TV and protected content," how is Tivo going to fix or change that?

$1000 for the Tivo, $250 per Mini, and no commercial skip without jumping through hoops. I have *plenty* of tolerance left with WMC.

You could spend all that cash on replacing everything with Tivo, or you could spend $200 on an XBox to replace the Echo for extender duties. Do you believe that would change your WMC experience for the better?
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:28 PM
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My experience has also been soured by my upgrade to the InfiniTV6 ETH. I originally had Xbox 360 slims and SiliconDust HDHR Prime 6CC working close to perfect. Foolish me, I bought 100% into Ceton and the experience turned to hell. Again, all my fault I upgraded to the ETH to get down to a single coax, single card, single Ethernet. Yet again my fault, I sold my Xbox 360 on future plans and blog post by Ceton. By the time I was finished troubleshoot with Ceton Support, so much of the great software features were uninstalled to the point where for the last 9 months I've been running a default WMC installation anyway. Sadly, I need an appliance for TV, not a Windows PC. My wife will not forgive any longer after this latest Ceton stunt.

At least she's willing to let me keep the HTPC, NAS, etc so I can have XBMC as a hobby.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:10 PM
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You might want to consider swapping out the InfiniTV6 ETH for the PCI-e version. I can understand wanting to pare it down to a single cablecard, but I would have been hesitant to make the switch. SiliuconDust has been in the business of making networked tuners for quite a while and has done it successfully. Ceton did a great job with the InfiniTV4, but hasn't been in the business of making networked tuners for very long. After the Echo fiasco I'd be leery about jumping on their bandwagon again with no prior experience with a new product.

I soured on extenders years ago and only got into the Echo beta program with the hope that they would add new features people actually wanted. Instead, it just turned out to be another extender with pretty much the same limitations as the older models. Mine never worked properly from day one and I had to swap it out for another unit. The replacement worked only slightly better, but not enough to make me want to keep it. I sent it back for a refund and would not recommend the product to anyone.

I'm fortunate enough to be on FIOS so virtually all of my recordings are copy freely, which allows me to use individual HTPCs that can share recordings made on any other HTPC. There's no funky lag with the UI as with extenders so it's like using the primary PC no matter where I am in the house. I'm also able to stream movies from my server from any PC so I'm a happy camper.
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:40 PM
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My experience has also been soured by my upgrade to the InfiniTV6 ETH. I originally had Xbox 360 slims and SiliconDust HDHR Prime 6CC working close to perfect. Foolish me, I bought 100% into Ceton and the experience turned to hell. Again, all my fault I upgraded to the ETH to get down to a single coax, single card, single Ethernet.

Out of curiosity, why was getting down to a single CC, a single coax input, and a single ethernet port worth $300 to you? Are cable cards that expensive to rent where you are?
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:54 PM
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Out of curiosity, why was getting down to a single CC, a single coax input, and a single ethernet port worth $300 to you? Are cable cards that expensive to rent where you are?

Clutter. To get six tuners with SiliconDust you need double the hardware. The home entertainment setup is very open (floating glass shelf design), so clutter has a big visual impact. This is also another plus for the TiVo, since the living room switch can also be deleted from the equation, assuming wireless AC can stream 1080p H.264 from the NAS.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:33 AM
 
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I reboot my Ceton Eth weekly now and I have absolutely no problems with it. I am on FiOS so that could be the difference.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:39 AM
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SiliconDust had great command line functionality allowing for me to schedule reboots weekly, if necessary. Ceton does not. Also, Ceton has advised against rebooting as it causes issues with WMC service. Although, I have no doubt it helps because the problem seems to be with tuner management on the device itself. If all the tuners are on a channel and STOPPED, there seems to be a high likelihood of pixelation. This is the garbage that bugs me with Ceton, reboot the ETH helps, but they advise against it. WTH!?! Acknowledge there is a pixelation issue and fix it, so we don't have to reboot against your advice.
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I reboot my Ceton Eth weekly now and I have absolutely no problems with it. I am on FiOS so that could be the difference.
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SiliconDust had great command line functionality allowing for me to schedule reboots weekly, if necessary. Ceton does not. Also, Ceton has advised against rebooting as it causes issues with WMC service. Although, I have no doubt it helps because the problem seems to be with tuner management on the device itself. If all the tuners are on a channel and STOPPED, there seems to be a high likelihood of pixelation. This is the garbage that bugs me with Ceton, reboot the ETH helps, but they advise against it. WTH!?! Acknowledge there is a pixelation issue and fix it, so we don't have to reboot against your advice.

I have a Prime and I never reboot it and all is well for me and my echo too.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:00 PM
 
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I am sure you never reboot your six channel Prime - since there is not one. wink.gif

Honestly, I am not sure how often I actually need to reboot it - every now and again I lose the tuners. For me, it is simpler to reboot it weekly when I do the routine maintenance on the rest of my system. I never have problems then.
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:12 PM
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I reboot my Ceton Eth weekly now and I have absolutely no problems with it. I am on FiOS so that could be the difference.
Weekly reboots sound like a problem to me....wink.gif
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:22 PM
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I am sure you never reboot your six channel Prime - since there is not one. wink.gif

Honestly, I am not sure how often I actually need to reboot it - every now and again I lose the tuners. For me, it is simpler to reboot it weekly when I do the routine maintenance on the rest of my system. I never have problems then.
I have a couple of HD Homeruns that have not been rebooted since the last time they had a firmware upgrade actually have rebooted them in years unless there was the about the every second year or so now firmware upgrade. Now all my PCs get lots of reboots M$ makes sure of that.

Just another blank signature.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:46 PM
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I have a couple of HD Homeruns that have not been rebooted since the last time they had a firmware upgrade actually have rebooted them in years unless there was the about the every second year or so now firmware upgrade.

 

I have two in my electronic closet that I haven't rebooted for performance issues since they were installed over a year ago.

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