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post #1 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

i have an HTPC where i have 5 HDS installed in it. I have 3 X Sata 3 ports and remaining 2 HDS installed in Sata 2 ports. I have setup 1 Gbps connection acorss my house and i dont have any issues with the connection

but I have issues with my hard drives as the access speed from HDS is very less. I have the below HDS

1 X SSD ( OS installation)
1 X 3 TB Western digital HD
2 X 3 TB Seagate HD ( http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Backup-Desktop-External-STCA3000101/dp/B00829THQE)
1 x 4 TB Seagate HD

when i copy files from 3 TB Western Digital HD, copying is taking place around 80 to 90 MBPS. but when i copy from other seagate drives all the dvds and blu rays are copying around 40 MBPS only

reason why i am worried is if i stream / play a blu ray in my bedroom computer ( computer is connected to 1 Gbps Lan and connected to tv via HDMI), movie is buffering
when i play a blu ray form western digital HD, i am getting blu ray movie without buffering

i bought the 3 TB Seagate and 4 tb segate drives and opened the casing and hokked it up as internal HD. i know that 4 TB seagate drive is 5900 RPM but i am not sure of other two 3 TB hds.

do you guys think its bcoz of RPM i am getting less speeds ?

what is my alternative way to play Blu ray movies ( all are original blu ray disks)
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post #2 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

do you guys think its bcoz of RPM i am getting less speeds ?

Absolutely not. Even a "lowly" 5400 RPM drive is plenty fast enough to playback/record multiple HD streams many times over. Don't believe me? See this independent review here using one of our machines and a 5400RPM drive with 5 HD streams (here) or (here).

I have no idea why the myth gets perpetuated that 5400RPM drives aren't perfectly capable in the HTPC platform. Its simply not true.

There is something else wrong with your system. Please provide addtional details about your setup including other AV equipment and how it is connected to the HTPC.
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post #3 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

i am not saying 5400 RPM are slow. i am just talking about my setup

COOLER MASTER COSMOS II RC-1200-KKN1 Black Steel ATX Super Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119252)
ASRock Z77 Extreme9 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157322)
Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501)
250 GB SSD Drive ( Windows 7 ultimate)
1 X 4TB
3X 3 TB
1 Blu ray Writer


I have connected my HTPC to TV directly using an HDMI cable.

There is switch between HTPC and my other PC. All the LAN cables are CAT 6 and are 1 Gbps

let me know if you need any more information from my end
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post #4 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

Hi,

i am not saying 5400 RPM are slow. i am just talking about my setup

COOLER MASTER COSMOS II RC-1200-KKN1 Black Steel ATX Super Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119252)
ASRock Z77 Extreme9 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157322)
Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501)
250 GB SSD Drive ( Windows 7 ultimate)
1 X 4TB
3X 3 TB
1 Blu ray Writer


I have connected my HTPC to TV directly using an HDMI cable.

There is switch between HTPC and my other PC. All the LAN cables are CAT 6 and are 1 Gbps

let me know if you need any more information from my end

I wasn't saying that you were stating your 5400s were slow. It was merely a preemptive comment as I know there will be some that would blame your drives.

Are you trying to bitstream DTS or HD Audio to your HDTV? If so turn bitstreaming off as this alone can cause stuttering as your HDTV cannot accept those bitstreams.
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post #5 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Let me explain you

I have a HTPC connected to my SOny 55 inches tv with HDMI Cable. I dont have any issue over here

I have one more 42 inches tv in my bedroom and i have a desktop which is connected to LAN to this tv via HDMI

when i play movies in my desktop and watch it on tv via HDMI ( in my bedroom), the original Blu ray movies are buffering ( original in the sense directly copied form Blu ray cds)

when i try to copy files form my main htpc to other desktop or any laptop in my house via 1 Gbps LAN, i am getting speeds of only around 40 MBPS

this is my issue
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post #6 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

Let me explain you

I have a HTPC connected to my SOny 55 inches tv with HDMI Cable. I dont have any issue over here

I have one more 42 inches tv in my bedroom and i have a desktop which is connected to LAN to this tv via HDMI

when i play movies in my desktop and watch it on tv via HDMI ( in my bedroom), the original Blu ray movies are buffering ( original in the sense directly copied form Blu ray cds)

when i try to copy files form my main htpc to other desktop or any laptop in my house via 1 Gbps LAN, i am getting speeds of only around 40 MBPS

this is my issue

I understand. Are you sure the settings on both are the same?

Otherwise your speeds should be plenty for a HD stream which is why I think the problem is elsewhere.
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post #7 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 12:11 PM
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I'll try and help you.

First,

There is a difference between mbps and MB/sec. Megabytes per second (MB/sec) is what hard drives copy at.

Example:



I am in the process of copying some stuff to my Mom's Laptop (crappy 5400rpm laptop 2.5" drive is rather slow by most standards) above. You can see I get MB/sec. Not mbps (usually this measures internet speeds or network speeds but it's not the same as MB/sec)

It does not matter which we use, but we should be clear about it. You can convert them back and forth using google browser which does a nice job with such things.

That said,

Most Hard drives are MB/sec- with slow drives being about 60MB/sec and fast drives being about 160MB/sec. All sorts in between. Below 50MB/sec is pretty slow for a modern drive. The item you copy matters too. For example if I copy MP3 or a folder with installation files it will copy much slower than if I copy a 25GB movie. Big single files always move the fastest- Sequential reads and reads are faster than random smaller reads and writes on all drives.


You can easily test your hard drives and your LAN speed with different benchmark programs. I would start there. That will show you exactly what speeds you get from each hard drive, and also your LAN speed too. From those results we can see what is wrong with what and work about fixing it.

Start by downloading a hard drive benchmark utility (google it) and measure your read and write speed. Post the results. Also do the same for your LAN connection too. We can figure this out.

WD GREEN 5400rpm drives go about 100MB/sec down to about 60MB/sec from my experience. They might get a little slower than that if totally full, but usually that is the range you get. Seagate 4TB or 3TB are usually faster, but if you have it formatted wrong, or there is something wrong with the drive that might mess things up.

As a rule of thumb 5400rpm are usually 50MB-110MB in speeds and 7200rpm are usually 80MB-160MB in speed. But results can be all over the place depending on different circumstances. You only need 25MB/sec to stream HD movies though....

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post #8 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 12:43 PM
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There are a lot of factors that go into how fast the data gets moved from the patters to sent down the drive cable. RPM can be one of those factors, but it won't be the only factor to contribute to how different your results are. Platter density, number of platters, cache, NCQ, etc all factor in. Also don't forget a highly fragmented drive will perform poorly as compared to a perfectly defragmented drive as you don't have to account for the head thrashing about. As fragmentation increases, then the previously mentioned factors play even more of a role.

I'd use a hard drive performance tool that can look at the entire disk to evaluate first what the drive can do and compare that to what published benchmarks are for that model drive. Also compare similar drives to each other. That should tell you if it's the drive itself, or if it's how the data on the drive is stored that may be the problem.

One other thing is are any of the drives advanced format drives? If so, check to make sure that they are properly aligned. If not, that can absolutely kill your performance.
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post #9 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Mfusick

thanks for your reply. below are the benchmark results of my hard drives. How can i test my LAN speeds ?

SSD Drive



Seagate 3tb HD-1



Seagate 3tb HD-2




Seagate 3tb HD-3




Seagate 3tb HD-4




Western Digital 3tb HD

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post #10 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

Hello,

i have an HTPC where i have 5 HDS installed in it. I have 3 X Sata 3 ports and remaining 2 HDS installed in Sata 2 ports. I have setup 1 Gbps connection acorss my house and i dont have any issues with the connection

but I have issues with my hard drives as the access speed from HDS is very less. I have the below HDS

1 X SSD ( OS installation)
1 X 3 TB Western digital HD
2 X 3 TB Seagate HD ( http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Backup-Desktop-External-STCA3000101/dp/B00829THQE)
1 x 4 TB Seagate HD

when i copy files from 3 TB Western Digital HD, copying is taking place around 80 to 90 MBPS. but when i copy from other seagate drives all the dvds and blu rays are copying around 40 MBPS only
Are you copying files across the network or between drives on the HTPC? What exactly are you copying MKVs, folders, ISOs
This really doesn't make any sense. Your WD 3 TB is the slowest drive you have and your benchmarks prove it. Also what kind of drive do you have in the bedroom computer?

Quote:
reason why i am worried is if i stream / play a blu ray in my bedroom computer ( computer is connected to 1 Gbps Lan and connected to tv via HDMI), movie is buffering
when i play a blu ray form western digital HD, i am getting blu ray movie without buffering
How do the movies play from the hard drive on bedroom computer? and what player are you using?

Quote:
i bought the 3 TB Seagate and 4 tb segate drives and opened the casing and hokked it up as internal HD. i know that 4 TB seagate drive is 5900 RPM but i am not sure of other two 3 TB hds.
Most likely 7200 rpm ST3000DM001. You can check device manager to verify.

Quote:
do you guys think its bcoz of RPM i am getting less speeds ?
NO

Quote:
what is my alternative way to play Blu ray movies ( all are original blu ray disks)

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post #11 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Below is the HD benchmark for my drive in bedroom pc

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post #12 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 09:25 PM
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Is your complaint stuttering? Or that the green drive is slower than the others?

The stuttering almost certainly has nothing to do with your hard drive speeds as all are capable of multiple simultaneous hd streams.

What are you using for media playback software and what are your settings? This is your most likely culprit.
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post #13 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

Mfusick

thanks for your reply. below are the benchmark results of my hard drives. How can i test my LAN speeds ?

SSD Drive



Seagate 3tb HD-1



Seagate 3tb HD-2




Seagate 3tb HD-3





Seagate 3tb HD-4




Western Digital 3tb HD



Your benchmarks are fine. I prefer HD tune because it will show speeds across the entire disc.

Looks like you have one of the 3TB seagates partitioned. I see the drive D: but where is the drive E:? Do you have movies on these volumes? and when you did the test did you use this drive?

What 2 drives do you have on the Sata II ?

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post #14 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Is your complaint stuttering? Or that the green drive is slower than the others?

The stuttering almost certainly has nothing to do with your hard drive speeds as all are capable of multiple simultaneous hd streams.

What are you using for media playback software and what are your settings? This is your most likely culprit.

From my understanding his slowest drive the WD green will play fine over the network and copies files over the network just fine. Its the other drives that he is getting stuttering from and the copy speed is slow.

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post #15 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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What 2 drives do you have on the Sata II ?


how can i check that. can i check from system OS or do i need to open the casing ?
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post #16 of 70 Old 09-18-2013, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

Below is the HD benchmark for my drive in bedroom pc


Copy a movie that you know is stuttering onto this drive, then play from this drive not across the network.

We need to narrow down if the problem is your HTPC, the network or the Bedroom pc

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post #17 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

what is stuttering means ?

i am able to play movies from all drives without any issue. if i copy the movies form my HTPC to any other system across my network i am getting only 40 to 50 MBPS speed. but getting around 90 MBPS speed if i copy only from 1 seagate 3tb drive

i can play all dvds without any issue, but if i play original untouched blu rays its buffering in my destination machine
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post #18 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

Hi,

what is stuttering means ?

i am able to play movies from all drives without any issue. if i copy the movies form my HTPC to any other system across my network i am getting only 40 to 50 MBPS speed. but getting around 90 MBPS speed if i copy only from 1 seagate 3tb drive

i can play all dvds without any issue, but if i play original untouched blu rays its buffering in my destination machine

Can you please tell us what playback software you are using?
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post #19 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 06:46 AM
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Can you please tell us what playback software you are using?

This.

And test your network speed. Every HDD you have seems faster than your network so I'm guessing its that. It's not your hard drives

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post #20 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you please tell us what playback software you are using?

i am using VLC player to watch dvds and blu rays
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post #21 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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This.

And test your network speed. Every HDD you have seems faster than your network so I'm guessing its that. It's not your hard drives


how can i check my network speed ?
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post #22 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:12 AM
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post #23 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:27 AM
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You posted your motherboard, but in the first post you say you are using 3x SATA3 and 2x SATA2. Your motherboard has 6x SATA3 ports (and 4x SATA2). However, there are basically three different types http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme9/?cat=Specifications

2x SATA3 Intel
4x SATA3 ASMedia
4x SATA2 Intel

I have a feeling you have a driver issue with the ports your slow drives are connected to. Figure out which "brand" of port the WD HDD is connected and connect one of the slower drives to the same brand/type and test a copy operation.

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post #24 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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This is my motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157322


do you think its due to any failure on motherboard or will it work if i update my drivers and which drivers should i update ?
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post #25 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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this is my motherboard drivers download page.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.us.asp?cat=Download&os=Win764&Model=Z77%20Extreme9

which drivers should i need to download
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post #26 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinku2012 View Post

i am using VLC player to watch dvds and blu rays

Are you trying to play a stream that uses HD Audio? If so that will cause errors or buffering or stuttering. VLC cannot pass HD Audio at all. And your HDTV cannot accept it anyway.

I would try a file that you know does not have HD Audio to rule that out as well.
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post #27 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 08:50 AM
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this is my motherboard drivers download page.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.us.asp?cat=Download&os=Win764&Model=Z77%20Extreme9

which drivers should i need to download

INF driver ver:9.3.0.1019
Intel Management Engine driver ver:8.1.2.1318
ASMedia SATA3 Driver ver:1.3.1
Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver and utility ver:11.7.0.1013
Broadcom Lan driver ver:14.8.4.1

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post #28 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Are you trying to play a stream that uses HD Audio? If so that will cause errors or buffering or stuttering. VLC cannot pass HD Audio at all. And your HDTV cannot accept it anyway.

I would try a file that you know does not have HD Audio to rule that out as well.

I use VLC to play back some things on the living room TV because it mixes 5.1 to stereo pretty well (I use MB or MPC-HC to stream HD audio on the actual Denon AVR) when I am sending the audio to the TV and not through the surround. I use VLC pretty often and I have never seen it "buffering"

What exactly is "buffering" ???

My experience is VLC is a pretty good player in most general regards- it works well on lots of files and has few issues. The one issue it might have is that it does not support HD audio- but it does read the HD audio core (normal dolby or DTS and not the MASTER AUDIO or TRUE HD part ) and output perfectly fine the core basic DTS or Dolby signals. I rip lots of BR with the HD audio track, and even if I choose that track with VLC as my play it plays fine without "buffering"

I am not understanding what "buffering" means. Does that mean the movie takes a long time to start playing ? Or that it stops playing and starts backs up? Can you explain what happens when it is "buffering" and what you would like to improve ????

Here is what I suggest:

TEST LAN SPEED (between the video source location and your playback location)
TEST YOUR PLAYER (try to move a problem movie to the playback computer and try playing it back locally from that machine not over LAN. If it works this will show the problem is in the network signal path and not the player or machine)
and also
TEST YOUR PLAYER (You might want to try to play a movie that is a problem with another player like MPC-HC [free download and very good] or even Windows Media player )

If it's not your HDD then it must be your player (or software) or the network. I would test the network first- if your network is good then we can start testing more players and software.

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post #29 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I use VLC to play back some things on the living room TV because it mixes 5.1 to stereo pretty well (I use MB or MPC-HC to stream HD audio on the actual Denon AVR) when I am sending the audio to the TV and not through the surround. I use VLC pretty often and I have never seen it "buffering"

What exactly is "buffering" ???

My experience is VLC is a pretty good player in most general regards- it works well on lots of files and has few issues. The one issue it might have is that it does not support HD audio- but it does read the HD audio core (normal dolby or DTS and not the MASTER AUDIO or TRUE HD part ) and output perfectly fine the core basic DTS or Dolby signals. I rip lots of BR with the HD audio track, and even if I choose that track with VLC as my play it plays fine without "buffering"

I am not understanding what "buffering" means. Does that mean the movie takes a long time to start playing ? Or that it stops playing and starts backs up? Can you explain what happens when it is "buffering" and what you would like to improve ????

Here is what I suggest:

TEST LAN SPEED (between the video source location and your playback location)
TEST YOUR PLAYER (try to move a problem movie to the playback computer and try playing it back locally from that machine not over LAN. If it works this will show the problem is in the network signal path and not the player or machine)
and also
TEST YOUR PLAYER (You might want to try to play a movie that is a problem with another player like MPC-HC [free download and very good] or even Windows Media player )

If it's not your HDD then it must be your player (or software) or the network. I would test the network first- if your network is good then we can start testing more players and software.

Buffering is where the player waits and collects a cache of data to play before it can play. In effect it is not receiving data fast enough to playback the media.

This can be seen with slow drives, slow network but also with incompatible file types (more likely this is seen as stuttering though in my experience) or improper settings in the media player, video card, etc.
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post #30 of 70 Old 09-19-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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do you guys think reinstall windows might help me ? ( its been almost more then a year where i have installed my OS)
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