Valve announces "SteamOS" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/23/4762370/steam-box-os
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Valve is done teasing. Today, Valve has revealed SteamOS, its own operating system based on Linux, designed for living room gaming PCs. It's the first step towards Valve's Steam Box, its vision for an open video game console. It combines Steam's preeminent video game digital distribution platform with a user interface designed for televisions and the Linux platform. It will also be free.

Valve says "It will be available soon as a free stand-alone operating system for living room machines."

According to the company, major game devleopers are already on board with Linux, and will be building triple-A game titles that will run natively on SteamOS in 2014. However, SteamOS boxes will also have a workaround for Windows and Mac OS X games: in-home streaming. Not unlike the Nvidia Shield, it will include a method for streaming games from your existing gaming computer to your TV, which Valve says will also come to the regular Steam client at some point.

Why an operating system? "As we've been working on bringing Steam to the living room, we've come to the conclusion that the environment best suited to delivering value to customers is an operating system built around Steam itself," the company's announcement reads. Valve says that by working at the operating system level, they've managed to improve graphics performance, and can also improve audio and reduce controller latency.

We've been following the Steam Box saga for well over a year now, watching Valve as it experimented with game controllers, denounced Windows 8 in favor of Linux, and called out Apple as a threat. We theorized about what the Steam Box could be. In January, we spoke to Valve co-founder Gabe Newell himself about his plans for the project, but it's only now that we're seeing the fruition of those dreams.

SteamOS is only the first of three announcements that Valve is expected to issue this week. Valve's countdown clock is ticking down again to Wednesday, Sepember 25th at 10AM PT / 1PM ET, when the company will likely unveil its own Steam Box hardware based on the SteamOS operating system.

In January, Newell told us that Valve was planning to create three tiers of the Steam Box, "good", "better", and "best", with "good" likely a $99 box that would stream games from other more powerful computers, and "better" being a $300 box that Valve would build itself, and also allow partners to build so long as they adhered to a certain hardware spec. On Wednesday, we'll likely hear about that "better" tier and all the ready-made hardware you can buy to get started with SteamOS. At CES, the company told us it already had 15-20 heardware partners lined up.

Developing...

I find this very interesting if Valve is getting in to the streaming business
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post #2 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 11:01 AM
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*crosses fingers for TV tuner support*

*sends the first email to Gabe suggesting/asking for so*
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post #3 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 01:49 PM
 
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Steam missed the best chance they had already. They should have partnered with Microsoft to offer Steam as part of the new XBOX.
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post #4 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Steam missed the best chance they had already. They should have partnered with Microsoft to offer Steam as part of the new XBOX.

.............I'm not sure if you're joking or not. About any, or all of that.
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post #5 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 05:49 PM
 
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Think about it - the XBOX is just a PC with a different OS front end on it. Valve sells games via downloading. The two are made for each other, like peanut butter and chocolate. Sadly, either one (or both) decided to be stupid and keep them apart. Image a world where Peanut Butter and Chocolate never accidently collided...a sad world it would be, one a little darker with the loss of the Peanut Butter Cup. I am not saying a Valve-XBOX match would be even close to the awesomeness that is the Peanut Butter Cup, but it would certainly have been a good thing.
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post #6 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 06:32 PM
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Wondering how game streaming will work. If I could stream games to my Intel NUC and have MediaBrowser 3 working in SteamOS... that would be amazing.
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post #7 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 06:35 PM
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Microsoft already sells games via downloading on the Xbox, I don't see what Steam would bring to the table. It's not like all the games already on Steam would actually run on the Xbox. Plus it would be a hole in the armor Microsoft has locking Xbox users into going through their system for everything.

It might be good for Steam, might even be good for gamers, but I don't see how it would benefit Microsoft at all.

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post #8 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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Simple answer.

Microsoft (probably) wanted too big of a cut from Steam's sales, via the Xbox platform.

Steam balked and decided to explore other options and settled on Linux.

Microsoft lost an arguably important customer (given the pounding they are taking, what were they thinking??) and Steam lost an important platform adoption opportunity.

A flustercuck all around.
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post #9 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Think about it - the XBOX is just a PC with a different OS front end on it. Valve sells games via downloading. The two are made for each other, like peanut butter and chocolate. Sadly, either one (or both) decided to be stupid and keep them apart. Image a world where Peanut Butter and Chocolate never accidently collided...a sad world it would be, one a little darker with the loss of the Peanut Butter Cup. I am not saying a Valve-XBOX match would be even close to the awesomeness that is the Peanut Butter Cup, but it would certainly have been a good thing.

So in other words, your asking how come Apple doesn't sell OSX to run as an app within Windows on Windows PCs (we aren't talking anything about hackintoshes here people, before someone tries to bring that up). Or why Microsoft doesn't even sell their Xbox OS to run inside the PlayStation OS on PlayStation consoles.

Are you seeing the pattern here? It rhymes with "They're competitors".
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Wondering how game streaming will work. If I could stream games to my Intel NUC and have MediaBrowser 3 working in SteamOS... that would be amazing.

I think the plan is like you want, like how OnLive was supposed to be - just hopefully with less latency.
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post #10 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 07:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Microsoft already sells games via downloading on the Xbox, I don't see what Steam would bring to the table. It's not like all the games already on Steam would actually run on the Xbox. Plus it would be a hole in the armor Microsoft has locking Xbox users into going through their system for everything.

It might be good for Steam, might even be good for gamers, but I don't see how it would benefit Microsoft at all.

Steam would help bring gamers to the XBOX when they see little reason, currently, to go there.
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post #11 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 07:17 PM
 
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So in other words, your asking how come Apple doesn't sell OSX...

No, I made no mention of Apple. I did mention a company that sells Windows based games via a download system and a Windows based gaming machine. I can see how you became confused, though, since Apple's gaming machine is pretty sweet...
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post #12 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

No, I made no mention of Apple. I did mention a company that sells Windows based games via a download system and a Windows based gaming machine. I can see how you became confused, though, since Apple's gaming machine is pretty sweet...

Nice attempt to save face, but the effort is all you succeeded on.

The comparison was made because they are all competitors in my examples, and each of those products are their direct products in competition.

Steam is a competitor to the Xbox, in case that one flew over your head.

That's why what you said makes no sense.

Care to give some incorrect, half-baked, ill thought out attempts at proving yourself right again? Don't forget to be smug in doing so again as well. That was the best part.
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post #13 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 10:04 PM
 
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Nice attempt to save face, but the effort is all you succeeded on.

No face saving needed by me - you, though, that is a different story. You attempted to make a comparison and it failed miserably. If you wanted a good comparison using Apple, you should have mentioned that Microsoft (a competitor to Apple) sells its Office Suite on the Apple OS - but that defeats your position instead of supports it, so I can understand why you did not mention it. You see, when doing something benefits both companies, even if they are competitors, they should do it. In the case of Apple and Microsoft Office, they both win. Microsoft gets money from additional sales and Apple gets a usable office productivity suite for its OS.

To spell it out for you, both Microsoft and Steam would have benefitted from having Steam run on the new XBOX. They are competitors, but doing it would benefit both companies so they should have done it. Win - win.

I eagerly await your next fail, it is amusing. Try to be a little more epic on the next one else you will start to bore us again.
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post #14 of 34 Old 09-23-2013, 10:10 PM
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Ok, then you never acknowledged one of the other comparisons I made in the same post; and would like an explanation on that if you can enlighten me:

Why doesn't Microsoft sell the Xbox 360 OS/360 Dashboard on the Playstation Store for install as an app on the Playstation 3 OS? Or vice versa?


Edit: If you need some help figuring it out, just say the word.
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post #15 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Steam would help bring gamers to the XBOX when they see little reason, currently, to go there.

The Xbox seems to have plenty of gamers now, being one of (if not the) top consoles available. Only time will tell what happens with the Xbox One.

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post #16 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

Ok, then you never acknowledged one of the other comparisons I made in the same post; and would like an explanation on that if you can enlighten me:

Why doesn't Microsoft sell the Xbox 360 OS/360 Dashboard on the Playstation Store for install as an app on the Playstation 3 OS? Or vice versa?


Edit: If you need some help figuring it out, just say the word.


Sigh...

There is no mutual benefit in that arrangement. Neither side would see enough of a gain to offset the losses they would incur due to the arrangement, or one side would gain greatly while the other loses much. For two competitors to help each other, they must both find gain in the arrangement. Using your own mentioning of Apple, I already showed that the two competitors of Microsoft and Apple entered a mutually beneficial arrangement with regards to the sale of Microsoft Office on the Apple OS. With regards to Microsoft and Valve, Microsoft would have gained more XBOX sales from those who value what Steam brings (which is a LOT of people) and Valve would have gained sales and further industry penetration. They both would have gained in such an arrangement.

The takeaway from this, the one thing you should remember so you understand, is that two competitors will only work together if there is mutual gain to be had (or if a law forces them to do so). When there is no mutual gain, there is no working together.




Your posting has become very boring. I warned you about it and, now that your posts are very boring, I will not bother to reply to them any longer. The last word will be yours, don't dig the hole you are in deeper, I beseech you.
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post #17 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 12:35 PM
 
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The Xbox seems to have plenty of gamers now, being one of (if not the) top consoles available. Only time will tell what happens with the Xbox One.

Microsoft can still pull out a good system if they correct their missteps. Sony has turned on their marketing machine and they are very good with it. Combine that with a good product and I think Sony will rule this round. Nintendo was a surprise in the last round with the Wii - but their latest endeavor will flop, I suspect.
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post #18 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

There is no mutual benefit in that arrangement. Neither side would see enough of a gain to offset the losses they would incur due to the arrangement, or one side would gain greatly while the other loses much. For two competitors to help each other, they must both find gain in the arrangement.

Exactly the point I was trying to convey and hoping you would get. Microsoft would not allow Steam on the 360/any Xbox to begin with, because users might just give all their money to Steam and never buy anything from Microsoft/Xbox Marketplace anymore; let alone Steam offering it's services on a rival platform that it's users might then turn around and just use instead of Steam as well. Thank you for finally understanding and coming around to your senses.

Now you can see for yourself how your original comment made no sense whatsoever.
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post #19 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 02:01 PM
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With regards to Microsoft and Valve, Microsoft would have gained more XBOX sales from those who value what Steam brings (which is a LOT of people) and Valve would have gained sales and further industry penetration.

Maybe I'm ignorant, what would Steam bring to the Xbox One that Xbox Live doesn't already do? Seems to me (at an oversimplified level) that they both provide digital delivery of games to a controlled environment. I mean when I get my Xbox One, if games were available via Steam on it, why would I choose a game via Steam vs XBL?
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They both would have gained in such an arrangement.

I guess I just don't see it (the Microsoft benefiting part), unless you're assuming all (or a significant portion) of content available on the PC on Steam would instantly be available on the Xbox One. If that were the case, I can see the benefit, but I seriously doubt that's the case. While the Xbox One may have a x86 processor and have a Windows based OS, as near as I can tell (just like the original Xbox which was a Celeron/nVidia combo) it's enough different that you can't just run a game coded for one and not on the other.

I guess my question is, assuming Steam didn't provide some emulation layer to make the Xbox One look exactly like a PC, and that developers would need to do custom work for Steam on the Xbox, how would Steam change the equation such that a developer unwilling to develop for the Xbox One and deploy via Xbox Live, would chose to develop for the Xbox One and deploy via Steam?

Like I said, I can see it being a bit of a coup for Valve to get a foothold into the console market, after all consoles are still a bigger market than PCs, but I just don't see what MS would gain.

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post #20 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 02:09 PM
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Maybe I'm ignorant, what would Steam bring to the Xbox One that Xbox Live doesn't already do? Seems to me (at an oversimplified level) that they both provide digital delivery of games to a controlled environment. I mean when I get my Xbox One, if games were available via Steam on it, why would I choose a game via Steam vs XBL?
I guess I just don't see it (the Microsoft benefiting part), unless you're assuming all (or a significant portion) of content available on the PC on Steam would instantly be available on the Xbox One. If that were the case, I can see the benefit, but I seriously doubt that's the case. While the Xbox One may have a x86 processor and have a Windows based OS, as near as I can tell (just like the original Xbox which was a Celeron/nVidia combo) it's enough different that you can't just run a game coded for one and not on the other.

I guess my question is, assuming Steam didn't provide some emulation layer to make the Xbox One look exactly like a PC, and that developers would need to do custom work for Steam on the Xbox, how would Steam change the equation such that a developer unwilling to develop for the Xbox One and deploy via Xbox Live, would chose to develop for the Xbox One and deploy via Steam?

Like I said, I can see it being a bit of a coup for Valve to get a foothold into the console market, after all consoles are still a bigger market than PCs, but I just don't see what MS would gain.

No, you understand it correctly. Microsoft would risk turning the Xbox 360/One into a Steam Box and handing over their entire user base to Steam, and having it's users never buy anything for the Xbox/from the Xbox Marketplace again; they would simply buy everything in/for Steam. Steam would risk the same thing by having to expose it's users to the Xbox ecosystem and Xbox Marketplace to simply log into/use Steam, hoping they don't see the absurd redundancy. It would be suicide for either Microsoft or Steam to do so.

I don't know how that simple point could escape anyone, but it takes all types to make the world go round I guess.
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post #21 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 02:24 PM
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I could see it being good for Steam, it would open up a whole new market, people like me who game on consoles but not on the PC. Though MS is locked to Xbox owners either way.

Maybe the Steam name would bring a few, but I don't see it. Then again I haven't used Steam so I don't really understand how it ROXORZ TEH BIG ONE111!!! cool.gif

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post #22 of 34 Old 09-24-2013, 02:29 PM
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I could see it being good for Steam, it would open up a whole new market, people like me who game on consoles but not on the PC. Though MS is locked to Xbox owners either way.

Maybe the Steam name would bring a few, but I don't see it. Then again I haven't used Steam so I don't really understand how it ROXORZ TEH BIG ONE111!!! cool.gif

But would you think (if you were running Valve) the risk of handing over the entire Steam user base to Microsoft (which is a valid concern in that situation) would be worth it for Valve? What happens if your users initially use the Xbox to try Steam out on it - but they end up liking the Xbox experience/services more? Now, they don't wan't to use Steam anymore, period. Same risk Microsoft would face allowing Steam on the Xbox 360/One. Hand over your entire user base if they like Steam's services/experience better. That's why neither company would want to do that. Like I said - they could potentially be committing suicide.
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post #23 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 05:50 AM
 
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Maybe I'm ignorant, what would Steam bring to the Xbox One that Xbox Live doesn't already do? Seems to me (at an oversimplified level) that they both provide digital delivery of games to a controlled environment. I mean when I get my Xbox One, if games were available via Steam on it, why would I choose a game via Steam vs XBL?
I guess I just don't see it (the Microsoft benefiting part), unless you're assuming all (or a significant portion) of content available on the PC on Steam would instantly be available on the Xbox One. If that were the case, I can see the benefit, but I seriously doubt that's the case. While the Xbox One may have a x86 processor and have a Windows based OS, as near as I can tell (just like the original Xbox which was a Celeron/nVidia combo) it's enough different that you can't just run a game coded for one and not on the other.

I guess my question is, assuming Steam didn't provide some emulation layer to make the Xbox One look exactly like a PC, and that developers would need to do custom work for Steam on the Xbox, how would Steam change the equation such that a developer unwilling to develop for the Xbox One and deploy via Xbox Live, would chose to develop for the Xbox One and deploy via Steam?

Like I said, I can see it being a bit of a coup for Valve to get a foothold into the console market, after all consoles are still a bigger market than PCs, but I just don't see what MS would gain.

MS would gain access to all the content Valve has access to currently. Most of the major games already have XBOX versions (and will have XBOX One versions after it is released). I am not sure if they will update the current games with XBOX One version; I think they will just come out with a new game which is designed for the XBOX One. While MS does have its own front end, it is nothing compared to what Valve already has. Microsoft could get money, and a larger market share, for little work and Valve would gain entry into the console market and make money. Developers, already understanding and using Valve's delivery system for Windows, would simply use the system they already use to sell games on the XBOX One too.
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I could see it being good for Steam, it would open up a whole new market, people like me who game on consoles but not on the PC. Though MS is locked to Xbox owners either way.

Maybe the Steam name would bring a few, but I don't see it. Then again I haven't used Steam so I don't really understand how it ROXORZ TEH BIG ONE111!!! cool.gif

Yesterday, 5.8 million people were logged into Steam.
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post #24 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 06:44 AM
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MS would gain access to all the content Valve has access to currently.

And all of that would run on the Xbox One? Without the developers updating them for the Xbox One platform (which isn't Windows, and AFAIK isn't quite the same DirectX)? What about OpenGL games?
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Most of the major games already have XBOX versions (and will have XBOX One versions after it is released).

So that seems like a net zero for MS, they might gain some users if they don't have to buy the game again on the Xbox, but that's no money in MS's pocket, in fact it's potentially less (people don't have to buy the Xbox version).
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I am not sure if they will update the current games with XBOX One version; I think they will just come out with a new game which is designed for the XBOX One.

But would there be more of those if Steam were on the Xbox than without?
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While MS does have its own front end, it is nothing compared to what Valve already has.

How so (I'm curious having not used Steam)?
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Microsoft could get money, and a larger market share, for little work and Valve would gain entry into the console market and make money. Developers, already understanding and using Valve's delivery system for Windows, would simply use the system they already use to sell games on the XBOX One too.

But are they going to develop Xbox One versions just because the delivery system is the same? This is still where I get hung up. I just don't believe that Steam would magically make all Windows games run on the Xbox One, they'd still need Xbox One versions, and I don't understand what's so great about Steam that developers who normally would not make Xbox One versions of their games would "flock" to develop Xbox One versions just because of a delivery system.

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post #25 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 10:37 AM
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Do any of you actually play games on Xbox?

Also, how much profit does anyone think the Xbox marketplace makes? My first question was rhetorical, but that 2nd one is genuine (and a lazy lack of research on my part)

Here are my thoughts (maybe incorrect)
  • Microsoft makes it's profit (in the X360 division) off overpriced accessories, XBOX Live memberships, and physical console sales
  • MS saw Apple's profit in the App Store (as did all other companies) and went $$-)
  • MS tried to make the One very similar to the App Store iOS concept for iDevices
  • The press and gamers everywhere threw $hitfits, and they relented on the down-only concept
  • Sony also tried and failed this concept with their PSP update
  • Most content delivery lockdowns have not succeeded (except Android/Apple)

Outside of all that sits Steam. Despite being "locked" to Steam, it still has been dominating PC gaming sales. MS is pretty much the only real name in that market (completely made up statistic alert) with probably 95+%

Steam on Xbox would probably be mutually beneficial, and with the current "revised" plans for the One it probably wouldn't hurt MS in their profit areas of Xbox Live memberships, accessories, and console sales.
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post #26 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 10:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

And all of that would run on the Xbox One? Without the developers updating them for the Xbox One platform (which isn't Windows, and AFAIK isn't quite the same DirectX)? What about OpenGL games?

Do you want an answer to the rhetorical question you posed?
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So that seems like a net zero for MS, they might gain some users if they don't have to buy the game again on the Xbox, but that's no money in MS's pocket, in fact it's potentially less (people don't have to buy the Xbox version).

Why would they not have to buy the game again on the new platform? If you own office for Windows you cannot load it onto your Apple OS, you have to buy the version for the Apple OS to run it.
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But would there be more of those if Steam were on the Xbox than without?

Yes.
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How so (I'm curious having not used Steam)?

MS has its own store on Windows 8 and, while it finds some usage it is still nothing compared to the usage of Steam for gaming purposes. Steam is easy to use, you can easily see and talk to your friends when they are online. It keeps track of your games you purchased and you can redownload whenever you desire - you do not need to keep them loaded. It is a fast and non-intrusive interface. It really works well. For a while I was against it out of principal that "I wanted to have a physical disc for my money", but once I got over that I found I enjoy using it. Also www.humblebundle.com uses Steam a lot for the sales of indi games. Steam also makes it easy to gift games (unused ones) to others, making it easy to buy a game for a friend so you can more easily play coop. smile.gif
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But are they going to develop Xbox One versions just because the delivery system is the same? This is still where I get hung up. I just don't believe that Steam would magically make all Windows games run on the Xbox One, they'd still need Xbox One versions, and I don't understand what's so great about Steam that developers who normally would not make Xbox One versions of their games would "flock" to develop Xbox One versions just because of a delivery system.

It would not magically male games run. Most of the major games already have XBOX versions (and will have XBOX One versions after it is released). I am not sure if they will update the current games with XBOX One version; I think they will just come out with a new game which is designed for the XBOX One. What Steam on XBOX would bring is a well established, trusted, comfortable downloading system that already has a huge user base. A huge user base is something developers enjoy seeing, since it gives them a far greater chance of selling tons of their product than if there was a small user base. It would bring developers to the XBOX faster that without.

I see it as a missed golden opportunity. Microsoft would not lose its userbase to Steam, since Steam already runs on Microsoft OSs. Steam would not lose its userbase to Microsoft, since Steam already runs on Microsoft OSs. Neither side would lose to the other in such a union, but both stand to gain from it.


EDIT: Of course, if the Valve Steam Gaming Machine they just announced ends up being a hit, then their gamble will pay off in spades. I fear it will go over as well as the NVidia Gaming Machine did, though. Microsoft had to fight hard and lose money to break into the console market - not sure if Valve has the power to do so successfully.
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post #27 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 02:18 PM
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I don't know why some people think the Xbox hardware is a money maker for Microsoft

http://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-xbox-division-has-lost-nearly-3-billion-in-10-years
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post #28 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Do any of you actually play games on Xbox?

I do, probably 80-90% of what I use the Xbox for, the other 10-20% is Netflix/Amazon.
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Also, how much profit does anyone think the Xbox marketplace makes? My first question was rhetorical, but that 2nd one is genuine (and a lazy lack of research on my part)

Here are my thoughts (maybe incorrect)
  • Microsoft makes it's profit (in the X360 division) off overpriced accessories, XBOX Live memberships, and physical console sales
  • MS saw Apple's profit in the App Store (as did all other companies) and went $$-)
  • MS tried to make the One very similar to the App Store iOS concept for iDevices
  • The press and gamers everywhere threw $hitfits, and they relented on the down-only concept
  • Sony also tried and failed this concept with their PSP update
  • Most content delivery lockdowns have not succeeded (except Android/Apple)

I'm sure XBL is profitable, or I'd guess it is, but I think most of the profit for the Xbox division is software sales. That's the general model for consoles, sell the hardware at a loss and make the profit on software.

I don't know about the rest, in some ways I think the One would have been better as originally announced. There were some cool options enabled with the online authentication. I'd have loved to be able to play games without having the disc in the machine for example. I'm disappointed that's not still possible (with physical purchases).
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Outside of all that sits Steam. Despite being "locked" to Steam, it still has been dominating PC gaming sales. MS is pretty much the only real name in that market (completely made up statistic alert) with probably 95+%

Steam on Xbox would probably be mutually beneficial, and with the current "revised" plans for the One it probably wouldn't hurt MS in their profit areas of Xbox Live memberships, accessories, and console sales.

It would cut into their software sales though.
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Do you want an answer to the rhetorical question you posed?

It wasn't meant to be rhetorical. I'm trying to understand if you really meant that all Steam games would run on the Xbox One without modification by their developers..
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Why would they not have to buy the game again on the new platform? If you own office for Windows you cannot load it onto your Apple OS, you have to buy the version for the Apple OS to run it.

I don't know, I'm attempting to understand the theoretical benefit still. That's one of the only benefits I can see, is if you bought a game on Steam, that it worked on any platform without having to rebuy. But if you have to rebuy a game you bought on Steam for the PC, what's the benefit (if Steam were on the Xbone) to rebuying it on Steam for the Xbox vs XBL? Or if the same game is available on XBL and Steam for the Xbox, why would I choose Steam over XBL?
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Yes.

Why? What would Steam bring to the table? Is it cheaper to sell via Steam than via XBL? Would Steam save developers from developing an Xbox specific version? Is the approval process easier on Steam?
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MS has its own store on Windows 8 and, while it finds some usage it is still nothing compared to the usage of Steam for gaming purposes. Steam is easy to use, you can easily see and talk to your friends when they are online. It keeps track of your games you purchased and you can redownload whenever you desire - you do not need to keep them loaded. It is a fast and non-intrusive interface. It really works well. For a while I was against it out of principal that "I wanted to have a physical disc for my money", but once I got over that I found I enjoy using it. Also www.humblebundle.com uses Steam a lot for the sales of indi games. Steam also makes it easy to gift games (unused ones) to others, making it easy to buy a game for a friend so you can more easily play coop. smile.gif

XBL does all that as well (Windows Store is something different IMO since it's going to face an uphill battle just due to inertia, people are used to not using a Windows store to get Windows software). If you kept all Steam functionality on the Xbox, that would just fragement the system, now you'd have two interfaces, two sets of friends lists. Would you only be able to coop with people who bought the game via the channel, as in would it prevent you who buys your game via Steam from playing online with me who bought it via XBL?

From what I'm hearing, it sounds like Steam is similar to Xbox Live but on the PC.

Actually to me, it sounds like Steam might have been a better addition to the PS4 than the XBOne, giving the PS4 something competitive with XBL than the Playstation Network.
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It would not magically male games run. Most of the major games already have XBOX versions (and will have XBOX One versions after it is released). I am not sure if they will update the current games with XBOX One version; I think they will just come out with a new game which is designed for the XBOX One. What Steam on XBOX would bring is a well established, trusted, comfortable downloading system that already has a huge user base. A huge user base is something developers enjoy seeing, since it gives them a far greater chance of selling tons of their product than if there was a small user base. It would bring developers to the XBOX faster that without.

The Xbox already has a well established, trusted, comfortable downloading system with a huge user base, Xbox Live. In fact it's much larger than Steam. The Xbox market is 77 Million consoles with 46 Million active Xbox Live subscriptions (capable of buying/downloading games).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/04/20/always-on-microsoft-xbox-live-subscriptions-up-to-46m-will-never-be-free/
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I see it as a missed golden opportunity. Microsoft would not lose its userbase to Steam, since Steam already runs on Microsoft OSs. Steam would not lose its userbase to Microsoft, since Steam already runs on Microsoft OSs. Neither side would lose to the other in such a union, but both stand to gain from it.

But the Xbox is not like Windows, it's much more like Steam in that the real moneymaker for Microsoft isn't the sale of the OS, it's the sale of software that runs on that, arguably any sale via Steam on the Xbox One would be a lost sale for Microsoft (it's not quite that simple, but I bet MS would "lose" more sales to Steam than it would gain users).

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #29 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I'm sure XBL is profitable, or I'd guess it is, but I think most of the profit for the Xbox division is software sales. That's the general model for consoles, sell the hardware at a loss and make the profit on software

You buy software from the XBOX marketplace?

None of my xbox friends ever do this. Everyone I know uses gamefly, bestbuy, amazon, but they all have XBL. They also purchase the extra DLC packs every time. I would think MS makes a cut there no matter what

Are you referring to the DLC sales or game sales?
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

I don't know why some people think the Xbox hardware is a money maker for Microsoft
They've not sold them for a loss (unlike Sony). I'm not sure why you think downloadable game sales were a money maker for MS either
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post #30 of 34 Old 09-25-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post


They've not sold them for a loss (unlike Sony). I'm not sure why you think downloadable game sales were a money maker for MS either

The Xbox hardware division is still operating at a substantial loss even with the 360 turning a profit - where do you think the money to convince them to stay in the console market comes from? It obviously isn't the hardware you can see for yourself - the money comes from advertising, deals with other game companies, and user subscriptions/purchases. And the amount of money the advertising and other game company money brings in is directly tied to how many people are using the 360 software services. If everyone on an Xbox were using Steam instead, they couldn't get as much money for ads as they currently do and the game companies and advertisers would make deals with Steam for the Xbox, not Microsoft. Then you're just completely screwed.

Tell me where the money comes from then if it's obviously not the hardware division? It's either gotta be the software/services side or unicorns.
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