Which chipset is better for a HTPC - Z87 or H87? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 12:02 PM
Senior Member
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley165 View Post

Isn't that the point you are trying to make? You state that the "Z" chipset has more features, and therefore is "better", while I point out a support feature not included in the "Z" chipset and you dismiss it as "shovelware".

Isn't the extra features of the "Z" like Lake Tiny, Overclocking, and Tri-SLI support just "Shovelware" for someone that isn't going to use it?

Intel SBA is software, and dangerous software if you read the link I provided.
emcdade is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 12:09 PM
Senior Member
 
wiley165's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Intel SBA is software, I think you are missing that key bit of info. It can be had on the Z platform as well.

You are misleading. Yes Intel SBA is software, but tied to the chipset (like the BIOS is software). It will not function the same (if at all) on a "Z" chipset.

wiley165 is offline  
post #123 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 01:52 PM
Senior Member
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Here is a mildly overclocked 3930K vs a stock 3930K in Handbrake. There's a 20% performance gain, how is that not better? Without overclocking available on the chipset, those kinds of gains are not possible.

emcdade is offline  
post #124 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 02:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dark_Slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,474
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Here is a mildly overclocked 3930K vs a stock 3930K in Handbrake. There's a 20% performance gain, how is that not better? Without overclocking available on the chipset, those kinds of gains are not possible.


How much do you know about video playback? How much do you think overclocking assists in media playback?



This is literally never going to end if veterans of this forum continue to give advice in the form of "better"

TO THOSE WHO FEEL QUALIFIED TO PROVIDE ADVICE
  • Try not to fall for the bait of "Which is better"
  • When asked specifically (as in this thread) simply offer details of the differences and mention what distinctions could be made to determine what is best for said individual

This is AV Science Forum
  • This is not cnet, engadget, or some non-technical family member of yours who is not at all interested in any details and simply wants the bottom line
  • What is the best car, what is the best receiver, who makes the best speakers, what is the best computer, what is the best smartphone???
  • Why not stick to the facts and personal experience without specifying an answer to such obtuse questions??
Dark_Slayer is offline  
post #125 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 02:28 PM
Senior Member
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

How much do you know about video playback? How much do you think overclocking assists in media playback?



This is literally never going to end if veterans of this forum continue to give advice in the form of "better"

TO THOSE WHO FEEL QUALIFIED TO PROVIDE ADVICE
  • Try not to fall for the bait of "Which is better"
  • When asked specifically (as in this thread) simply offer details of the differences and mention what distinctions could be made to determine what is best for said individual

This is AV Science Forum
  • This is not cnet, engadget, or some non-technical family member of yours who is not at all interested in any details and simply wants the bottom line
  • What is the best car, what is the best receiver, who makes the best speakers, what is the best computer, what is the best smartphone???
  • Why not stick to the facts and personal experience without specifying an answer to such obtuse questions??

I know plenty, which is why I posted an encoding benchmark showing the difference between a stock and overclocked CPU. How else do all these people using their HTPC's get MKV files if they're not downloading them illegally? Seems to be a pretty commonplace HTPC task IMO.

When did I ever mention overclocking in regards to media playback? Of course, it will assist with SVP performance since it relies heavily on CPU power.
emcdade is offline  
post #126 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 02:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dark_Slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,474
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

I know plenty, which is why I posted an encoding benchmark. How else do all these people using their HTPC's get MKV files if they're not downloading them illegally? Seems to be a pretty commonplace HTPC task IMO.
I think you'd find a pretty even mix of people using to not-using handbrake. Most of our HTPCs playback MKV files just fine without running them through handbrake. I particularly don't bother re-encoding my mkvs, and if I did it is still quite unlikely that I would overclock my processor to do it faster. It seems more and more like those seeking maximum performance outside of hardcore gaming typically aren't adept in automating tasks
Dark_Slayer is offline  
post #127 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

I think you'd find a pretty even mix of people using to not-using handbrake. Most of our HTPCs playback MKV files just fine without running them through handbrake. I particularly don't bother re-encoding my mkvs, and if I did it is still quite unlikely that I would overclock my processor to do it faster. It seems more and more like those seeking maximum performance outside of hardcore gaming typically aren't adept in automating tasks

How are you getting MKV files off a disc? I'm not talking about re-encoding.
emcdade is offline  
post #128 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dark_Slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,474
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

How are you getting MKV files off a disc? I'm not talking about re-encoding.

makemkv.com
Dark_Slayer is offline  
post #129 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 02:53 PM
Senior Member
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

makemkv.com

Ah that's correct, transcoding limited by drive speed. I re-encode all my files to reduce size. I personally perform many tasks on my HTPC/Server that benefit from more CPU performance.

We're getting away from the point, which was that it is certainly not "pointless".
emcdade is offline  
post #130 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 05:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
It's not pointless. For me to use my 3570k ( the one I bought with Z series board cheaper than newegg had H with i3) and use SVP with MADVR I need a mild overclock. It's the best way to save cash and get i7 level performance for less than i7 cost.

It's also great at encoding , quite a difference actually. Darkslayer is right I'm not good at automating tasks because usually when I transcode I'm trying to get it done quickly last minute and loaded on a phone or laptop or tablet for traveling - having a powerful CPU saves and amazing amount of time.

I don't encode my whole collection but if I did that would basically take forever on a modest stock dual core CPU. A nearly impossible task at the volume of media I have.

You certainly don't need quad cores or z series boards for simple video playback but let's not bash on them for encoding because that's a task they show some benefit (more than video playback )

So much hate on the high end stuff these days around here. What's wrong with AVS? It used to be a place that appreciated excessive and maximizing every last ounce of performance (in audio, video etc) but it seems like there is a prevailing simple and cheap is good enough in this forum. Do people not have high end audio and video systems anymore around here where quality no longer matters? Anytime anything other than a lower power cheap dual core and cheapo mobo is recommended you get some fools saying "you don't need that" and half they time they don't even know about video rendering, or any of the tasks the powerful stuff is good at.

I totally get that in this thread there is no need for a Z series board for OP- but it does seem like lots of people want to bash on the high end stuff just because it exists. There is a difference between saying you don't need it for what you want to do OP, versus saying no ever needs it and it's pointless. You are going to get some resistance on the second approach.

Sometimes I like having stuff that is better and more capable than I need. Ever buy a power tool that's like 10 times better than you need and know it's a waste of money- but then you use it and you smile ear to ear ? Or drive a car or motorcycle that has 10 times the amount of power you really need for daily driving but as soon as you get it wide open it brings a smile to your face ? Sometimes it's nice just to have something, even when you know you don't need it. Since when was having a fast high end PC a bad thing ????

Too much hate on good stuff these days. mad.gif There is no reason to hate on a powerful CPU or a Z series motherboard that can overclock. These things cost less than a Friday night dinner over the cheaper counterparts but people treat it like it's thousands of dollars. I've seen $25,000 projectors and $10,000 speakers with regularity around here so no sure why spending $125 on a motherboard is viewed as being EVIL. This whole "value" concept is running out of control sometimes. If I spent $20 more on more powerful CPU, or motherboard even though I did not need I am sure I would live happily ever after. You never regret getting something better or stepping up, but often you do regret going ultra cheap and limiting yourself.

Everyone (myself included) needs to lighten up around here. This is not life or death stuff, and performance is not evil. We've been bickering about the stupidest stuff recently. I think everyone needs to loosen up or chill out. I am not very wealthy by any means, but $20 for a motherboard with more features isn't exactly a big deal even if I might never use the features. From the attitudes around here you think spending the extra $20 might be punishable by death eek.gif

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #131 of 132 Old 10-14-2013, 08:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dark_Slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,474
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 293
Interesting to see this . . .


Here goes with the question (nothing that glares a necessity for overclocking, but that's just my opinion)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpee View Post

Planning to buy a mini ITX mobo with chipset H87 to go with a SSD that I will install Win 8 on. A friend of mine told me that H87 is not good for SSD because it doesn't have "Lake tiny". Performed some research and found ‘Lake Tiny’ tech is for performance and power optimisations for SSD. Is it true in real world of HTPC/ small media server? What about your thoughts? Thanks.


Here is the first response (literally)
Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

Either one will be fine. Z87 is only needed if you plan on overclocking or using higher than rated speed RAM. Lake Tiny only applies to SSD caching. Not using SSD for a primary drive.
How precise. Why use the term "better"? Simply demonstrate what you believe to be the key differences as to why someone would choose one over the other



Then . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Z87 is always going to be better. It's just a better chipset. That's really a silly question
Not a great choice of wording, and lacks overall substance
Dark_Slayer is offline  
post #132 of 132 Old 10-15-2013, 08:11 AM
Super Moderator
 
Bob Sorel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,460
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Argumentative/personal posts deleted. This is a good time to close this thread.
Bob Sorel is offline  
Closed Thread Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off