Please recommend a Windows Media Center Extender - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kjkr1021 View Post

Now to the ceton. I have been using one of the echo's on a network running WMC with no problems so far. Over a year and going. The remote is not that good, but I am happy with the echo itself.

You have sure, as have others. But for some it locks up all the time or has crappy playback on some channels. That's why it's called a crapshoot.

The Xboxes, on the other hand, just work and can be had for roughly the same price.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm the OP and this is an update. Unfortunately, I gave up on this project as I just couldn't get it to work (could not stream HD using wifi). Here is what I tried:

I ended up sharing the folder on my HTPC which had the recorded shows (recorded shows using off-air antenna). I set-up a 2nd computer (a laptop) in the bedroom with Windows 7 and WMC. I pointed WMC to the shared folder on my HTPC. The video is choppy as my wifi can't handle streaming HD (I believe 1080i). I moved my computer in the hallways (which is close to my router) and then it played fine. It was about 20 feet away from my router. But when I put the computer in the bedroom (about 40 feet from the router, and separated by walls), it gets choppy.

Looks like my only solution is to run a long cable around all the walls and underneath carpet. A project that I'm not looking forward to!

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Old 01-03-2014, 01:12 PM
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I still think power line is worth a shot if you want to avoid cables. My Actiontec ones required weekly reboots, but I've heard other brands are more reliable. Otherwise, they streamed HD fine.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

I still think power line is worth a shot if you want to avoid cables. My Actiontec ones required weekly reboots, but I've heard other brands are more reliable. Otherwise, they streamed HD fine.

Is this the kind of thing Slingbox sells (or used to sell) to deliver ethernet over your AC power lines?

I've always been intrigued by this... heard mixed reviews of it in practice. At this point, with the quality of N-Routers, I think these kind of work-arounds are going to become less-and-less necessary (until we all go to 4-K, and then once again wires will have a distinct advantage over wireless, I'm sure).
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HowardV View Post

I'm the OP and this is an update. Unfortunately, I gave up on this project as I just couldn't get it to work (could not stream HD using wifi). Here is what I tried:

I ended up sharing the folder on my HTPC which had the recorded shows (recorded shows using off-air antenna). I set-up a 2nd computer (a laptop) in the bedroom with Windows 7 and WMC. I pointed WMC to the shared folder on my HTPC. The video is choppy as my wifi can't handle streaming HD (I believe 1080i). I moved my computer in the hallways (which is close to my router) and then it played fine. It was about 20 feet away from my router. But when I put the computer in the bedroom (about 40 feet from the router, and separated by walls), it gets choppy.

Looks like my only solution is to run a long cable around all the walls and underneath carpet. A project that I'm not looking forward to!

If you are now going to run a wire, keep an eye out for Ceton Echo price drops. I've had one for over a year, and was able to add a second and a third one to my arsenal over the holidays, each at $99-$100 a pop on Amazon. I just checked for you, and they're currently back up to $161... but just keep an eye out.

A lot of people on here have had a lot of problems with them... you can see some of that documented in this thread. But I think the majority of their complaints (and maybe I'm wrong about this, but I'll let them correct me if I'm wrong) have to with the Echo's inability to stream 1080p video / lossless audio from blu ray rips in various file formats. If your use-needs are still as they were in the OP (720p / 1080i .wtv recordings), I have three Echos, and all three of mine do this quite well, in a small form factor that looks nice and uses very little power. The remote that comes with is total garbage, though... you'll want to either buy yourself something like a Harmony, and/or pay $5 for the Ceton My Media Center smartphone/tablet app...

Also, I know Xbox 360 requires an Xbox Live account to use Netflix... I think (but am not 100% certain) it might require said-subscription for WMC Extender use as well? I still have an Xbox... it works too. If you aren't doing Blu Ray rips, and you aren't using (and don't intend to upgrade to) Windows 8, I think the Echo does everything the Xbox does, while smaller, quieter, and while using less power. On the flip-side, if you see yourself wanting to stream Blu Ray rips, and/or you see yourself upgrading to Win8, the Xbox is the clear choice. JMO.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post

Is this the kind of thing Slingbox sells (or used to sell) to deliver ethernet over your AC power lines?
Yes. MoCa (or DECA) over coax is better, but won't work in an apartment, I think. I use DECA myself ($20 for a transmitter/receiver pair on ebay, 200Mbps, rock solid).
Quote:
Originally Posted by psuKinger View Post

If you are now going to run a wire, keep an eye out for Ceton Echo price drops...

Also, I know Xbox 360 requires an Xbox Live account to use Netflix... I think (but am not 100% certain) it might require said-subscription for WMC Extender use as well?
Same here. I have several Echos I got on the cheap. 100% reliable for me for live and recorded TV. Any universal remote will work. I use a $3 JP1 remote with mine, backlit so I can see it at night.

On Xbox, WMC is free. Netflix requires Live.

Using a second PC rather than an extender seems needlessly complex and expensive to me.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Yes. MoCa (or DECA) over coax is better, but won't work in an apartment, I think.

I'm pretty sure all you need is a MoCa filter on your incoming line and MoCa should work fine. I'm not sure if there is an equivalent for DeCa.

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Old 01-03-2014, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone. I'll keep my eyes open for a Ceton Echo. And if I find a cheap ethernet over A/C line, I'll give that a shot too. If it works, it'll save me a lot of trouble over running a Cat5 cable in my apartment.

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Old 01-04-2014, 11:16 AM
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Using a second PC rather than an extender seems needlessly complex and expensive to me.

 

I find this not to be the case after using a NUC for a couple of months. I have invested roughly $200 in the NUC (Celeron, 4GB RAM, 8GB flash drive and IR sensor). It boots OpenELEC in seconds and XBMC runs like a champ including HD audio and video. Regarding WMC the ServerWMC and WMC add-on works wonderfully... you have access to WMC in seconds.

 

https://googledrive.com/host/0ByNnAMYBoWvfTk8tRWJXYko1T2c/index.html

 

Outside of HDHomeRun tuners I refuse to "invest" in hardware dedicated to WMC as I see very little resell value or life expectancy. The exception to the rule is a Xbox 360 E I grabbed at $99 via Amazon for the wife... if she ever finds a cabinet in the Hearth room.

 

Complex? Roughly 10 minutes to "build" the NUC and another 10 minutes to install OpenELEC and the add-on. Recently, I purchased a 32GB mSATA ($40) drive for the NUC as insurance should I wish to run Windows down the road. The NUC does a great job and can easily handle WMC and Windows in general. Nice to know when I drop WMC or it drops me. :) 

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Old 01-04-2014, 01:39 PM
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I have two NUCs that I use as extenders. I paid about $320 apiece in hardware costs to get them up and running. I'm on FIOS so I can share recordings between PCs without worrying about the copy once flag. I use a SD HDHomeRun Prime for live TV signals to the NUCs. I have the RecordedTV folder on my primary HTPC set up for sharing with the NUCs so any recorded shows on the main HTPC show up in the NUC RecordedTV folders and are playable on the NUCs. The best part about using individual PCs for extenders is that I can stream any type of video content from my server without the limitations inherent with every extender currently available. I also don't have to deal with the lame washed out UI on the extenders.

My recommendation for a WMC extender is not to use one. I have tried most of them and they all suck. I've used the Linksys DMA2100, HP x280n, XBox 360 slim, and the Ceton Echo and didn't like any of them. I would always get network errors with each and every one of them, but when I ran the network diagnostic it would always pass with flying colors. The only network problems I've ever had is when I used extenders. I use a Dell PowerConnect 2724 unmanaged 24-port gigabit switch with direct connections from each device in the house to the switch.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:00 AM
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Old thread... but for any lurkers out there, the Ceton Echo is $99 through end of Labor Day at Amazon.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:32 AM
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Annnd, still not worth it.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:55 PM
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Annnd, still not worth it.

Roger that...........


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Old 09-02-2014, 02:39 PM
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It's the lesser of evils IMO. Sure it has issues, but it beats having big, noisy, power hungry Xboxes in every room, or old models that won't WOL. Mine are completely invisible, velcroed to the back of my TVs. I never really have any issues with them. Besides, having bought so many on sale and flipping them, the ones I have in service now were essentially free.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:44 PM
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My Xbox Slims are not that noisy, nor power hungry. Knowing that Echo can never support Win8 makes it lesser a deal unless it is sold < $50. Still running my beta unit but won't use it on my main system.

By all means, it is a discontinued product by Ceton (no firmware updates for bug fixes).
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:56 PM
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My Xbox Slims are not that noisy, nor power hungry.
+1

Except I have the newer E versions, but still. You can't hear it unless the TV is off and you are standing right infront of the unit. And that's for all 4 of my Xbox units.

I threw my 2 Echos out, they are the only piece of HTPC hardware/software/whatever I have ever regretted buying. 🍕💩
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:50 AM
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Yep, the Slims and E's are so much better it's not funny, even more so now that all the live streaming apps are included instead of having to pay for Live.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:51 AM
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Yeah, I was all excited when they dropped the gold requirement for Netflix, but then discovered it's still only 720p, which doesn't cut it on a big TV. So my plan to replace all my Echoes and Rokus was thwarted yet again.

IR on Xbox is also really terrible too. Eye is set so far back on the board, you have to aim dead on for it to work.

At one time I had 4 Xbox slims as extenders, 2 of which were noisy as hell. It's the fan in the brick that eventually goes bad. Brick on the E looks identical to the Slim, so there's no way I'm buying that design again. None were quiet enough for a bedroom. Maybe I'm just too picky.

While Xbox is better than Echo in some ways, it still sucks in others. Overall, Echo is a better fit for me.

Last edited by mdavej; 09-03-2014 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:06 AM
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IR on Xbox is also really terrible too. Eye is set so far back on the board, you have to aim dead on for it to work.
I agree. I never noticed it on the older white 360's but the Slim I have has horrible IR reception. It is so bad it makes them feel laggy to me.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:12 AM
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Of course the IR on the echo is no work of art either.

That said, I'm still using mine..

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Old 09-03-2014, 10:26 AM
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Yep, the Slims and E's are so much better it's not funny, even more so now that all the live streaming apps are included instead of having to pay for Live.
Can I get an Amen?!
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:10 AM
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Yeah, I was all excited when they dropped the gold requirement for Netflix, but then discovered it's still only 720p, which doesn't cut it on a big TV.
Really? Yikes... I did not know Netflix on the 360 was still limited to 720p. Luckily, I use my PS3 in the main living room and Chromecast in the bedroom for Netflix purposes - both of which are full 1080p and surround sound capable. The 360 is only used as an WMC Extender and the occasional game.

Considering the number of 1080p Netflix devices that exist, Microsoft needs to work with Netflix and somehow get their head out of their ass.
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Old 09-15-2014, 10:17 AM
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I never messed with a Ceton, did they ever get 1080P output? Outputting 1080i creates a bit of a mess at 720P channels as it requires dropping half the frames. Outputting 720P needs first class deinterlacing of 1080i, then decent downscaling. Kind of a pick your poison if 1080P is not a display mode.

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Old 09-15-2014, 10:22 AM
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I never messed with a Ceton, did they ever get 1080P output? Outputting 1080i creates a bit of a mess at 720P channelas it requires dropping half the frames. Outputting 720P needs first class deinterlacing of 1080i, then decent downscaling.
Yes, had it for a couple of years now. Was only limited to 720p for a month or so when first released.
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Old 09-15-2014, 12:51 PM
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Yes, had it for a couple of years now. Was only limited to 720p for a month or so when first released.

I was out on the Green Button and beyond all the fussy voodoo people go through to make them work I see mention of a Native Display mode. Does the Ceton have a native mode that would supply 480i, 480P, 720P, and 1080i based on programming?


For me that would be ideal as I have a Lumagen Radiance at my main display and DVDO Duo in the bedroom, the extra bedroom has an DVDO Edge. All these VPs have excellent deinterlacing and scaling and the best thing you can feed them is Native unmolested video.

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Old 09-15-2014, 04:22 PM
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I was out on the Green Button and beyond all the fussy voodoo people go through to make them work I see mention of a Native Display mode. Does the Ceton have a native mode that would supply 480i, 480P, 720P, and 1080i based on programming?


For me that would be ideal as I have a Lumagen Radiance at my main display and DVDO Duo in the bedroom, the extra bedroom has an DVDO Edge. All these VPs have excellent deinterlacing and scaling and the best thing you can feed them is Native unmolested video.
Yes, it has native mode, also for a long time. While you're researching, you should really just ignore any posts before 2013. A lot has changed since the beta.

I'm not sure how unmolested an extender output can be though. Probably lots of stuff happening between the server and the client. If you want perfection, I don't think you'll find it in any extender. You need to have a dedicated PC at each TV running Madvr or something. I my case, besides my main TV, all others are under 40", so perfect isn't a requirement.
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Old 09-15-2014, 05:18 PM
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If it has not been deinterlaced or upscaled yet I suppose that is unmolested enough.


There is not that much else being done that I can think of. Colorspace conversions can muck things up pretty badly though.


My brother lent me an Xbox 360, I looked at the Xbox video output on Sunday and while you can choose your colorspace they have 3 different video reference levels and from what I can tell standard is not, it seems way too dark. Intermediate, whatever the hell that is, is not much different. It is dark too.


I finally went with Full ( PC levels) and changed the Video Processor to expect PC levels. I don't see a lot of banding on the Xbox which is good and the Xbox deinterlacing is okay. I will have a look at RGB Full on the Xbox this weekend.

The HP has the kind of color pop that you would expect from a good CE device but you have to choose 720P on the HP or you are going to drop frames on 1080i channels and the deinterlacing is just tolerable. The Xbox definitely shows the polish that one should expect from a mature device.


Even with madVR the output on a PC never really grabs me like a good CE device. I have plenty of potent HTPCs around here and I rarely watch protected content. JRiver gives you madVR for Live TV, but there is too much banding for me. Also it doesn't fly on WAF part of the equation.


I have an older TV HD which had the option for Native out, that looked very nice. As expensive as Tivo is I would have saved a fortune over the years just buying Tivos and a couple of Tivo Extenders.

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Old 09-15-2014, 05:30 PM
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What about frame rates. The video on the HP is the proper 59.94 Hz not the silly 60 Hz the Xbox puts out. The Xbox display controller shows its AMD legacy.


What about the frequency of the Ceton?

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Old 09-15-2014, 06:03 PM
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I have no idea about the frame rate. Good question for erkotz at TGB.
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