The best (but cheatest) video card to play 3D bluray movies (no games) on HTPC - AVS Forum
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Just found a good deal of SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 5450 1GB at Newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102882, but somebody told it can't play 3D movies on my HTPC that has a mITX asus mobo with i3 haswell on it.
The above card may cause pausing, skipping and clipping during 3d playback through Powerdvd and Arcsoft total media.
So, what video card do I need to play 3D movies? I'm not a game and therefore I don't want to spend lot of money on a video card at all.
I don't care if it's Nvidia GT or AMD HD, just want to buy a proper card that doesn't cost much on my power bill but does the job well enough.
Also, I was told that comparing to Nvidia GT, AMD HD cards provide much better 3D pictures, is that correct?
What are your thoughts? Thank you.

Edit. Just a typo. The title should be "The best (but CHEAPEST) video card ". Sorry...
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:59 AM
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:23 AM
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is the GT430 still made? that was the first one that could do 3D and bitstream HD audio. Its successor would be up for the task.

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Old 10-17-2013, 10:11 AM
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Have you tried using the integrated graphics on your i3? I have an i3-2100 & have played back several 3D titles using TMT5 with no skipping.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

is the GT430 still made? that was the first one that could do 3D and bitstream HD audio. Its successor would be up for the task.
I second that. I've been running a 430 for a couple years and it's been extremely solid. Probably hard to find such an old card, but the GT530 and GT630 are its successors. I'd just get whatever you can find that's cheapest.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot.
I have some questions here, guys.
Has any one of you witnessed Radeon HD 5450 getting problems with 3D bluray playing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mud sloth View Post

I second that. I've been running a 430 for a couple years and it's been extremely solid. Probably hard to find such an old card, but the GT530 and GT630 are its successors. I'd just get whatever you can find that's cheapest.
How much power a GT430 sucks during movie playback? Should I buy a PSU of 250W, 300W, 400W or more?
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Originally Posted by tawd1992 View Post

Have you tried using the integrated graphics on your i3? I have an i3-2100 & have played back several 3D titles using TMT5 with no skipping.
Great idea. I may as well use iGPU of i3 if I can't find any great video card for "best bang for the buck".
Once again, thank you, guys.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:23 PM
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Why would you use i3 gpu just if you "can't find any great video card"? You stated that you aren't going to play games, soo it's wasting money, some more power consumption, one more heat and noise source and no performance gain.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Emaster View Post

Why would you use i3 gpu just if you "can't find any great video card"? You stated that you aren't going to play games, soo it's wasting money, some more power consumption, one more heat and noise source and no performance gain.


+1

Makes no sense

6570 is lowest GPU I would go versus iGPU otherwise it's pointless

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Old 10-17-2013, 01:39 PM
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:26 PM
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i3 can do 3D (pentium can not) so often people step up to i3 when they want 3D. A 6570 Radeon would also be a better choice if adding a GPU card (cheap) was the goal. These sell for $25-50 but are considerably better than the video card OP is considering.

The best higher end solution today is the 7770 ($69) or 7790 ($99) which can do full levels of MadVR if desired.

Or,

AMD CPU often pack more punch in the iGPU and provide a higher value. Cheap Madvr and 3D performance = AMD CPU.

People beat up AMD for using more power the Intel, but it certainly uses a lot less than Intel plus a GPU card lol. Power is relative to performance, anytime you increase CPU or GPU power you will increase power consumption.

A modern i3 should perform fine without needing a GPU upgrade. That cheap GPU OP is considering is actually worse.

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Old 02-11-2014, 03:54 PM
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Does the memory size matter? 1GB/2GB/4GB... if it better to go for better faster GPU or more memory.
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joatguru View Post

Does the memory size matter? 1GB/2GB/4GB... if it better to go for better faster GPU or more memory.

For GPU card ? Or igpu?

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Old 02-11-2014, 04:06 PM
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I bought the GT 430 a couple years ago to get around the black level issues and it worked fine for that.

Now I got the R9 270x on order. And just my luck the day after I bought it on Amazon they have it for $20 cheaper and with free 2 day shipping for Prime members. And since I bought it through circuit city and not Amazon I can't get the cheaper price.
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

I bought the GT 430 a couple years ago to get around the black level issues and it worked fine for that.

Now I got the R9 270x on order. And just my luck the day after I bought it on Amazon they have it for $20 cheaper and with free 2 day shipping for Prime members. And since I bought it through circuit city and not Amazon I can't get the cheaper price.

Return it and buy the cheaper one.

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Old 02-11-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

For GPU card ? Or igpu?

GPU card
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

I bought the GT 430 a couple years ago to get around the black level issues and it worked fine for that.

Now I got the R9 270x on order. And just my luck the day after I bought it on Amazon they have it for $20 cheaper and with free 2 day shipping for Prime members. And since I bought it through circuit city and not Amazon I can't get the cheaper price.

I have been trying to buy (2) Radeon R9 cards (270X) and I can't find a good deal at all. My budget was $200 (with battlefield4 I hope biggrin.gif ) or $159 for a cheap card (crappy cooler or non X version) but everything I see now is more like $230+

WTF !!!

These cards are like $50 more expensive magically overnight. I should have pulled the trigger when I saw the 7870 2GB cards near $150.

mad.gif

Stupid LITECOINS!

/end rant

Side note,

I have not clue why more people don't run these cards in dual configuration ??? Two R9 270X cards will absolutely slay a 7970/7990 single card. And it's about $100 cheaper or more.

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Old 02-11-2014, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joatguru View Post

Does the memory size matter? 1GB/2GB/4GB... if it better to go for better faster GPU or more memory.

I guess the answer gets rather complicated and it's dependent on what you want to do with it.

If you want to do only HTPC stuff then it matters some. For advanced stuff like MadVR or video games it matters more. 4GB is not a great idea for good iGPU performance, since you will share some for the iGPU and that means there is not much left. You might find yourself wanting 8GB. Also the speed matters too, for iGPU you can get some real world performance boosts (10% or greater) with more memory and faster memory (1866mhz+ and 2400mhz is best). This is true for AMD and even more true for Haswell. I''m not a fan of DDR3 1600mhz, and I would never use 1333mhz or 1066mhz ever. Especially since the cost for the better stuff is small.

On a dedicated GPU memory still matters but if you overbuy a card for the purpose then it won't matter much.

Example: You buy just enough card to play the games you want at the resolutions you want you will see a benefit going from a 1GB GPU card to a 2GPU card in frame rates or performance. But if you overbuy your video card for the intended purpose the lower ram is enough.

For max MADVR you need a minium of Nvidia 650Ti or Radeon HD7770 or R7 260. You are better off getting the small step up (2GB cards and HD7790/ R7260X) since they do show some additional benefits in extreme madVR (like 1080p video) or in video games at 1200x1920 resolutions.

If you are looking at something like a RADEON R9 class then the memory won't matter too much as the card is more than needed for 1080p gaming or any madvr. But again, it might matter at 1440p gaming.

So the answer is rather complicated but obviously there is a benefit to more RAM.

If you are looking at a card where the 2GB version is $20 more than the 1GB version I think it's a no brainer, but for $50 perhaps not. (then again $50 often gets you the next higher card up)

For good iGPU performance you want 8GB of 2400mhz, this would only matter to gamers or someone wanting MadVR or SVP.

A simple Celeron or cheap AMD dual core with 1600mhz will play back 1080p video fine, so in that case it won't matter. It all depends on what you want to do.

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Old 02-11-2014, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I have been trying to buy (2) Radeon R9 cards (270X) and I can't find a good deal at all. My budget was $200 (with battlefield4 I hope biggrin.gif ) or $159 for a cheap card (crappy cooler or non X version) but everything I see now is more like $230+

WTF !!!

These cards are like $50 more expensive magically overnight. I should have pulled the trigger when I saw the 7870 2GB cards near $150.

mad.gif

Stupid LITECOINS!

/end rant

Side note,

I have not clue why more people don't run these cards in dual configuration ??? Two R9 270X cards will absolutely slay a 7970/7990 single card. And it's about $100 cheaper or more.

I'd love to have two Sapphire Toxic R9 270X but I'm not a PC gamer, 2 of those would basically run full madVR near idle speeds. I'm still trying to decide which console to get. I had a PS2, then a Xbox 360, but I love eye candy so I'm probably going to end up with a PS4.

Even the Asus 270X which I coulda sworn was in the 230 range a month ago when I started by upgraded video card search is $300 and out of stock on Newegg and $335 on Amazon. Frys has it $220 which is good. I know how you like your performance/noise ratio, if I were you I'd grab that one as it's probably the 2nd best 270X after the Toxic and $30-50 cheaper. Prob won't find a cheaper price for that good of a card either.

Agreed stupid litecoin/bitcoin, ruining the fun for everyone else. Although I was looking at motherboards and I saw a 22 sata port board made by Asrock. Where was that when I was building my server? That woulda been perfect!
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

I'd love to have two Sapphire Toxic R9 270X but I'm not a PC gamer, 2 of those would basically run full madVR near idle speeds. I'm still trying to decide which console to get. I had a PS2, then a Xbox 360, but I love eye candy so I'm probably going to end up with a PS4.

Even the Asus 270X which I coulda sworn was in the 230 range a month ago when I started by upgraded video card search is $300 and out of stock on Newegg and $335 on Amazon. Frys has it $220 which is good. I know how you like your performance/noise ratio, if I were you I'd grab that one as it's probably the 2nd best 270X after the Toxic and $30-50 cheaper. Prob won't find a cheaper price for that good of a card either.

Agreed stupid litecoin/bitcoin, ruining the fun for everyone else. Although I was looking at motherboards and I saw a 22 sata port board made by Asrock. Where was that when I was building my server? That woulda been perfect!

AH YES... the ASROCK EXTREME 11 biggrin.gif 22 SATA PORT is nice. I had a post about it showing 22 SSD's installed on it biggrin.gif That's old news tongue.gif

My dream machine would be a HASWELL E or next generation socket 2011 machine on Asrock Extreme13 (30 sata ports) with enough PCI lanes to sink the Titanic. 64GB of DDR4 @ 2800mhz, an 8 core CPU and (4) Radeon R9 280X cards. Throw in dual INTEL LAN and blutooth, thunderbolt, and 8 USB3.0 ports. Oh and don't forget the SATA EXPRESS ports because SATA3 is too slow for a good SSD drive. (256GB or greater SAMSUNG or OCZ SSD will totally saturate SATA3). I need two of them so I can run my OS in RAID0 (1400MB/sec) and still pass TRIM commands to the SSD's biggrin.gif

I am looking at an Asus card I think. 270X with 2GB.

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Old 02-11-2014, 08:33 PM
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AH YES... the ASROCK EXTREME 11 biggrin.gif 22 SATA PORT is nice. I had a post about it showing 22 SSD's installed on it biggrin.gif That's old news tongue.gif

My dream machine would be a HASWELL E or next generation socket 2011 machine on Asrock Extreme13 (30 sata ports) with enough PCI lanes to sink the Titanic. 64GB of DDR4 @ 2800mhz, an 8 core CPU and (4) Radeon R9 280X cards. Throw in dual INTEL LAN and blutooth, thunderbolt, and 8 USB3.0 ports. Oh and don't forget the SATA EXPRESS ports because SATA3 is too slow for a good SSD drive. (256GB or greater SAMSUNG or OCZ SSD will totally saturate SATA3). I need two of them so I can run my OS in RAID0 (1400MB/sec) and still pass TRIM commands to the SSD's biggrin.gif

I am looking at an Asus card I think. 270X with 2GB.

Old news, lol. I've been voluntarily out of it because as soon as I get back into it I sort pressing the buy button and my bank account starts shrinking. I'm hoping the Hitatchi 6TB drives come down in price before I need think about a 22 or 30 sata port mobo.

Yeah dream machine indeed, DDR3 prices are retarded right now, I don't want to imagine what DDR4 will be like.

For my fanless main PC build I have 2 256GB Samsung 840 Pros that I'll be setting up in RAID 0, I can't wait to get it up and running in a few weeks. I heard RAID 0 arrays are prone to corruption if there is a power outage, is that true?

And I'm sure you'll enjoy that card, heck I just want something that can run full madVR, I got a lot of 720p content that could stand to benefit from it.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:53 PM
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I've run RAID 0 countless times and never had issue. Setting backups is always advised though. You can restore from a back up easily with RAID 0 (I keep backup on my media server) You can also make a clone image with something like acronis, which is also nice in case you want to drop down to only 1 SSD and no RAID in the future and you don't have to re-install. That lets you use the other SSD for something else. 265GB are good sized and very fast, so that might be an option someday. I did this with my RAID 0 arrays a couple times. I have two 256GB VERTEX450's right now for one OS drive (got them $149 each so that's a smoking fast 512GB OS drive for $298)

I would not count on the Helium Hitachi drives dropping down too low in the next year or two. They are $600. Next year $399 probably. In a couple years probably $299 then $249 but it will never get cheaper than that I doubt. Not until there are 8TB+ drives anyways, in which case you won't even want them anymore !

As far as the RAID 0 power failure I run a cheap UPS backup surge protector thing from APC. I have the big brick looking one that has the LED readout on the front that shows you the current voltage and line quality and also charge level. If you were really worried about RAID 0 and power loss you can always buy a cheap UPS backup (not a bad thing to have). Since I moved into the basement because of the babies coming I blew the fuse twice running my air compressor on the same line trying to blow out my PC case and fans of dust. I was downloading and running both my server and my desktop at the time. It started beeping and the lights went out, I walked over threw the breaker back up and then plugged the air compressor into another outlet. My PC and server never lost a beat. Well worth a UPS backup IMO. Stuff like that can happen anytime. That is just a recent example.


As far as the Asrock with the mobo ports... YUP. TOO MUCH WANT.





Fill them up with SSD's




TOO MUCH WANT


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Old 02-11-2014, 09:39 PM
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512GB is perfect for what I'm looking for in a main PC. Really the only files I keep stuff long term on is my server so I only need space to for downloads on my main PC and I clean those out once a month.

$400 for the 6TB drive is actually around what I'd expect for one. Sure it's not the 1TB/$33 ratio but given it's a new technology that's understandable.

UPS is probably going to be my next purchase after my fanless PC and upgraded HTPC. We lost power to a lightning strike nearby last year and it took a while for me to get my server to get back up and running properly.

Sorry for the threadjack guys. Just keep in mind like Mfusik said that buying the cheapest stuff now isn't always the best in the long run. I built my HTPC a couple years ago with an i3-2100, an Asus GT430, and a Crucial 64GB SSD. Within the 1st year I upgraded the SSD to Samsung 830 128GB and I'm currently in the process of building an i5 or i7 and R9 270X based HTPC to replace it. So sure at the time it saved me some money but in the long term it cost me more because had I started with an i5, 7790 based system I'd have no need to upgrade to be able to run madVR. If you're just getting into the hobby and want to get your feet wet first because you don't know if you'll stick with it then by all means go cheap but if you can see yourself getting into it more in the future then it might be a good idea to go ahead to spend a lil more in the short term to save yourself money in the long term.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

512GB is perfect for what I'm looking for in a main PC. Really the only files I keep stuff long term on is my server so I only need space to for downloads on my main PC and I clean those out once a month.

$400 for the 6TB drive is actually around what I'd expect for one. Sure it's not the 1TB/$33 ratio but given it's a new technology that's understandable.

UPS is probably going to be my next purchase after my fanless PC and upgraded HTPC. We lost power to a lightning strike nearby last year and it took a while for me to get my server to get back up and running properly.

Sorry for the threadjack guys. Just keep in mind like Mfusik said that buying the cheapest stuff now isn't always the best in the long run. I built my HTPC a couple years ago with an i3-2100, an Asus GT430, and a Crucial 64GB SSD. Within the 1st year I upgraded the SSD to Samsung 830 128GB and I'm currently in the process of building an i5 or i7 and R9 270X based HTPC to replace it. So sure at the time it saved me some money but in the long term it cost me more because had I started with an i5, 7790 based system I'd have no need to upgrade to be able to run madVR. If you're just getting into the hobby and want to get your feet wet first because you don't know if you'll stick with it then by all means go cheap but if you can see yourself getting into it more in the future then it might be a good idea to go ahead to spend a lil more in the short term to save yourself money in the long term.

I could not agree more.

My first HTPC was a cheap H61 Asrock board running 1333mhz ram and a Pentium CPU. Upgraded it twice until I finally stopped (at least for now tongue.gif) at my current 3570k i5. I also have moved past 64GB SSD for the OS (it's really not enough at all).

I don't regret it since I like to tinker and this is a hobby of mine, and I do enjoy the journey as much as the destination. But for someone wanting to do it right the first time and not wanting to have to upgrade or redo things a second or third time I think buying something a level up from what you might need is a smart move. It will remain viable longer, bring you more happiness in the long run, and probably save you money from upgrading too soon.

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Old 02-11-2014, 10:22 PM
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I guess the answer gets rather complicated and it's dependent on what you want to do with it.

If you want to do only HTPC stuff then it matters some. For advanced stuff like MadVR or video games it matters more. 4GB is not a great idea for good iGPU performance, since you will share some for the iGPU and that means there is not much left. You might find yourself wanting 8GB. Also the speed matters too, for iGPU you can get some real world performance boosts (10% or greater) with more memory and faster memory (1866mhz+ and 2400mhz is best). This is true for AMD and even more true for Haswell. I''m not a fan of DDR3 1600mhz, and I would never use 1333mhz or 1066mhz ever. Especially since the cost for the better stuff is small.

On a dedicated GPU memory still matters but if you overbuy a card for the purpose then it won't matter much.

Example: You buy just enough card to play the games you want at the resolutions you want you will see a benefit going from a 1GB GPU card to a 2GPU card in frame rates or performance. But if you overbuy your video card for the intended purpose the lower ram is enough.

For max MADVR you need a minium of Nvidia 650Ti or Radeon HD7770 or R7 260. You are better off getting the small step up (2GB cards and HD7790/ R7260X) since they do show some additional benefits in extreme madVR (like 1080p video) or in video games at 1200x1920 resolutions.

If you are looking at something like a RADEON R9 class then the memory won't matter too much as the card is more than needed for 1080p gaming or any madvr. But again, it might matter at 1440p gaming.

So the answer is rather complicated but obviously there is a benefit to more RAM.

If you are looking at a card where the 2GB version is $20 more than the 1GB version I think it's a no brainer, but for $50 perhaps not. (then again $50 often gets you the next higher card up)

For good iGPU performance you want 8GB of 2400mhz, this would only matter to gamers or someone wanting MadVR or SVP.

A simple Celeron or cheap AMD dual core with 1600mhz will play back 1080p video fine, so in that case it won't matter. It all depends on what you want to do.

Thanks for all the info, I guess my question was more on the lines of... for the same card, lets say 650 gtx, or 7770 they are available in both 1 and 2GB versions, if the use is strictly for video playback only, 3D Buy-ray I believe will the most taxing of all, is it worth the extra $$

And again, on the lines of OP's question, is a 650 or 7770 good enough or over kill for 3D Buy-ray playback?
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:30 PM
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a 650 or 7770 are more than enough for 3D or simple playback.

You could go with something like a 6570 radeon if you just needed 3D and 1080p.

But a 650 will not do max level of madvr video processing (you would need a 650Ti for that) and a 7770 mostly would with the exception it would struggle on the hardest of video file types. It's mostly enough though.

Here is a good reference chart earlier in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1477339/so-youve-built-your-htpc-now-what-is-next-how-to-get-the-ultimate-picture-and-sound-quality-from-your-htpc-madvr-svp-xbmc-mediabrowser-jriver/0_100#post_23512510

Since we are inside this thread and much has been discussed about it I assumed you wanted to do MadVR, for which you would not want a 650 or 7770 IMO but rather a 650Ti or 7790 (or R7 260X). You could get by with a 7770 if you did mostly film I think, but a little extra head room never hurt anyone. The cost is pretty high right now for those anyways, they were under $100 but they have increased about 40% in price recently. You might hold off a month for prices to drop back down

if you have no interest in MadVR but only want 3D (and no gaming) I would get a 6570 Radeon which is under $50 on sale and still more than enough. Save your cash

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Old 02-14-2014, 12:56 PM
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This is likely to push prices on r7 260 down soon

http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_announces_radeon_r7_265_graphics_card_hits_retail_late_february_149

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Old 02-15-2014, 10:19 AM
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Just found a good deal of SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 5450 1GB at Newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102882, but somebody told it can't play 3D movies on my HTPC that has a mITX asus mobo with i3 haswell on it.
The above card may cause pausing, skipping and clipping during 3d playback through Powerdvd and Arcsoft total media.
So, what video card do I need to play 3D movies? I'm not a game and therefore I don't want to spend lot of money on a video card at all.
I don't care if it's Nvidia GT or AMD HD, just want to buy a proper card that doesn't cost much on my power bill but does the job well enough.
Also, I was told that comparing to Nvidia GT, AMD HD cards provide much better 3D pictures, is that correct?
What are your thoughts? Thank you.

Edit. Just a typo. The title should be "The best (but CHEAPEST) video card ". Sorry...


I thought core i3 haswell plays 3d video with its in-built gpu? (at least that's what people on the forum says)

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Old 02-15-2014, 10:57 AM
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I thought core i3 haswell plays 3d video with its in-built gpu? (at least that's what people on the forum says)

It does.

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:58 AM
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It does.


then why the need for a discrete GPU? is there occasional lags or something with the iGPU?

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Old 02-15-2014, 12:00 PM
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then why the need for a discrete GPU? is there occasional lags or something with the iGPU?

Post 4 said to do that, but the question is what is the best and cheatest card. I'm not sure what cheatest means.

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