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post #1 of 76 Old 11-15-2013, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah yeah...so I bought a Synology 412+ 4 mos ago and now I'm looking to go HTPC. tongue.gif

Well, I'm actually very happy with the NAS, it does exactly what I wanted which was feed popcorn hours with my media. That said, I never considered- or at least underestimated- the fact that I'd like to transcode said media to the iOS devices in my household. So shame on me.

Funny thing is, out of the blue the synology is pulling this off as of tonight ...but I don't expect it to last and with no official DTS support who knows what the future holds for 95% of movie soundtracks.

So there's the main goal...I figure at the very least I have a nice shiny RAID 5 16TB box ready to go.

So then, how cheap can I get this done? Basically I think I need:

1. Case
2. Motherboard
3. CPU
4. RAM
5. Power supply
6. CPU HDD
7. BD drive

I can grab any Windows OS I want from the university I work at for $9, which is nice.

Am I missing anything?

It seems to me the Haswell is the way to go? I've read it looks to be in good shape with 4k and does 23.976 correctly...that means something to me.

I'd be willing to pop for the i5 or i7 if it future proofs just a bit more. The $50-$100 seems reasonable to me, am I in err?

Can this happen for $500?

Please enlighten me if I'm unrealistic with any of the above. The costs of these half dozen components all strike me as very reasonable so a few extra bucks here or there for a bit more performance is not something I'm likely to object to.

Thanks for all of the help!!!

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #2 of 76 Old 11-16-2013, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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By the way:

I figured since I won't need more than an SSD for my OS/etc I can get a smaller/cheaper case and power supply and I DO want a BD burner.

So then:

$100-$250: CPU
$80 mother board
$80 SSD
$80 RAM
$50 PSU
$50 BD DRIVE
$50 CASE

SO $~475-$600 then?

Wow, even going with a 4th gen i7 keeps me at about $600...or LESS!

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #3 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's what I'm thinking of, thus far, if anyone cares to critique

CPU: I can grab the i7 4770 for about $250 so I think I've resolved myself to that. I really don't know what I will end up using this for in totality, but it would be nice to have the HP for multiple transcodes and I really don't mind the extra ~$100 popping for it to be on the safeside.

RAM: New Egg's gonna have this for $60 B Friday: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL112312&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL112312-_-EMC-112312-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20231568-L05A

Power Supply $50: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182200&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL111513&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL111513-_-EMC-111513-Latest-_-PowerSupplies-_-17182200-L010B

Motherboard $75: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157384&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Motherboards+-+Intel-_-ASRock-_-13157384

This SSD should be about $75 D Friday: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820721107

Case, I like this one $65: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129180&Tpk=antec%20302

BD Drive $50: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL111513&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL111513-_-EMC-111513-Latest-_-BluRayBurners-_-27136250-L09B

So $600ish. Can I do better than this/will it all play nice? It appears to me that this is a pretty decent rig for $600.

Maybe:

Wireless K Board/Mouse $40: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126192&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL111513&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL111513-_-EMC-111513-Latest-_-Keyboards-_-23126192-L017A

thanks again everyone!

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #4 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 08:27 AM
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"Budget" HTPC with an i7 and 16gb of ram? Uhhhhh....
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post #5 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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When 16 gigs of ram is avail for $60 I guess I'm just not going to skip it. The processor is a jump, but I can get it bundled with the mobo out the door for $300. That's $360 for RAM, CPU and mobo. How much cheaper could it be done? $250? I suppose I'll remove the word "budget".

thanks

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #6 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:02 AM
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I informed him that Microcenter is currently running the CPU/MB combo i7-4770 & Asrock Z87 Extreme4 together for around $300 out the door, store only. I will be stopping and getting mine on my way home.

Bill
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post #7 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Yeah I grabbed one back in May 2013 (Extreme 4 + 4770k)

I beat the living crap out of mine (5.0ghz anyone ? )

Really happy with mine. I paid $399 back then for the bundle combo. $300 is a no brainer. Why would you even consider an i3 ????

Stock cooler? eek.gif

Bill
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post #8 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

When 16 gigs of ram is avail for $60 I guess I'm just not going to skip it. The processor is a jump, but I can get it bundled with the mobo out the door for $300. That's $360 for RAM, CPU and mobo. How much cheaper could it be done? $250? I suppose I'll remove the word "budget".

thanks

James

I like how you think bro...

People that might criticize i7 or lots of ram often are often just jealous, or have never experienced the benefits of such things first hand. There is an underlying resentment of all things awesome in this forum by many who choose the "barely enough" option. I understand what you are saying, when you can get quad cores and good quality performance parts for a small premium over basic parts it's a good value and smart choice.

You spend close to what many will pay for a cruddy i3 dual core and non Z mobo, and some slower smaller ram sticks. But somehow the i7 is "wrong" choice... lol

Too much is almost enough. You never regret getting something awesome but often will regret getting something basic. Happens to me every time. I stopped buying "budget" parts and starting buying enthusiast parts at great prices.

I would suggest you look for a better SSD though, I think you should find some betters ones for the price you are looking to pay. Look for something with a bit more performance and a modern SSD controller inside.

I like the OCZ lines like Vertex450 and Vector. I also like the Samsung Lines (EVO is cheap on BF deals I bet) and also Corsair/PLEXTOR sometimes. I got a Vertex3 120GB for $49 last BF biggrin.gif

I saw Microcenter has the 3570k for $149 today, and the 4770k for $199. If you have one near you that is a solid option too.

My HTPC is inside an Antec 300 - (the non USB3.0 version) and it's a nice case because you can slow down the fans and make it quiet. Lots of room and good cooling too.

I think you should find a Z series mobo bundle on BF for about the same price. Last year I got the Asrock Extreme Z77 in my server with 8GB DDR3 for $99 as bundle, I would expect like deals this year.

Also- The better Rosewill PSU line (450 watts) is going on sale later this week (15% off again). Not a bad option for 80+ GOLD certified.

Lastly, Antec NEO PSU 520watt is $35 after rebate right now (slickdeals.net) [ not sure you need that much though ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

I informed him that Microcenter is currently running the CPU/MB combo i7-4770 & Asrock Z87 Extreme4 together for around $300 out the door, store only. I will be stopping and getting mine on my way home.

Bill

Yeah I grabbed one back in May 2013 (Extreme 4 + 4770k)

I beat the living crap out of mine (5.0ghz anyone ? )

Really happy with mine. I paid $399 back then for the bundle combo. $300 is a no brainer. Why would you even consider an i3 ????

i3 has to be the stupidest choice CPU of all time- either you do not need performance and likely would use a celeron or pentium for half the price without much difference, or you do want it and should step up to quad for for $50 or less more. There is a big difference between quad cores and dual cores for anyone that appreciates CPU speed. i3 does 3D but that's a stupid reason to get one I think. Again, usually you really care about PQ or you just need basic playback- and again you are better off with a GPU card or a better CPU or simply saving your money on a cheaper dual core.

It seems like the i3 is always stuck in the middle where it's not enough, or it's too much- it's never a good deal. With the deals you can get on i5 and i7 and also on Pentium chips the i3 is often the worst "value" CPU based on street prices.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #9 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

Stock cooler? eek.gif

Bill

No. The stock cooler is still in the box. You want it ? I'll sell it cheap...

The Stock cooler is perfect for Pentium and Celeron Chips but it's terrible for K series quad cores.

Haswell get's HOT eek.gif

You really need something pretty extreme to go beyond 4.8ghz, some liquid or dry ice style cooler system. Air won't do it.

The EVO212 Coolermaster is a cheap cooler that works pretty well. You can get 4.6ghz with one of those.

You can DE-LID the Haswell CPU's and really drop the temps (20 degrees+) Made a big difference in mine. I used a screwdriver and a vice. Was pretty easy.

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post #10 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:19 AM
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If i7 is a budget HTPC, then OP must have Maybach for a winter beater. eek.gif

To me, and perhaps I am a minority, but budget HTPC would be under $300, and $600 i7 would be top of the line.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #11 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

If i7 is a budget HTPC, then OP must have Maybach for a winter beater. eek.gif

To me, and perhaps I am a minority, but budget HTPC would be under $300, and $600 i7 would be top of the line.

Top of the line is probably $1500+ with a GPU card and high end case.

I think by "budget" he meant "something pretty good, but also a really good deal"

"budget" by the traditional sense of this forum = CHEAP.

Big difference between "CHEAP" and "GOOD VALUE" as I am pretty sure the OP meant "GOOD VALUE" a lot more than he meant "CHEAP"

A $300 HTPC that can't do MadVR, doesn't run windows, and does not have an SSD drive for the OS is not really a good deal just because it's only $300. It's actually a bad deal because you often have to junk it and replace in order to compete and be competitive with the premium experience available with better hardware and set up.
If you were trying to do any other hobby - and you bought the most entry level equipment- the same would likely be true for that hobby too.

If you were playing paintball and bought the cheapest gear, before you could really become competitive and live up to your full potential you would need to upgrade your gear.
If you were racing cars or motorcycles or riding Mountainbikes - before you could be competitive you would need to upgrade from the cheapest equipment to something at least competitive.
If you were woodworker by hobby you would want to upgrade from the cheapest tools to something that would allow you a higher level of results
the list can go on and on...

A super cheap HTPC is like buying a clunker car. You might like the price pay when you buy it because it's low but you often find yourself spending additional money at later dates to keep it working, or make it work better. If you buy a $2500 car and spend average of $200 a month in repairs or keeping it going for a year you really probably should have bought a $5000 car in the first place. It might have seemed more expensive at first, but really cost less in the long run. Plus you have something nicer to enjoy all the while using it.

That's my opinion on most things anyways. Cheap is cheap and good is expensive. That's just how the world works. My opinion is there is inherently much more value in something like a $200 i7 4770k or a $300 Asrock Extreme4 Z87 / i7 combo than saving $20 on some crappy dual core and non Z motherboard. A year or two later you will never regret the small amount extra you spent to have something that is actually really nice - as opposed to something that is merely adequate and out of date and less capable much sooner.

I often get flamed for thinking this way, and expressing this opinion - but time and time again it proves to me it's 100% true. The only thing that "cheap" often brings me is regret. These days I try to separate"cheap" from "great value" as they are not the same thing.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #12 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I like how you think bro...

People that might criticize i7 or lots of ram often are often just jealous, or have never experienced the benefits of such things first hand. There is an underlying resentment of all things awesome in this forum by many who choose the "barely enough" option. I understand what you are saying, when you can get quad cores and good quality performance parts for a small premium over basic parts it's a good value and smart choice.

You spend close to what many will pay for a cruddy i3 dual core and non Z mobo, and some slower smaller ram sticks. But somehow the i7 is "wrong" choice... lol

Too much is almost enough. You never regret getting something awesome but often will regret getting something basic. Happens to me every time. I stopped buying "budget" parts and starting buying enthusiast parts at great prices.

I would suggest you look for a better SSD though, I think you should find some betters ones for the price you are looking to pay. Look for something with a bit more performance and a modern SSD controller inside.

I like the OCZ lines like Vertex450 and Vector. I also like the Samsung Lines (EVO is cheap on BF deals I bet) and also Corsair/PLEXTOR sometimes. I got a Vertex3 120GB for $49 last BF biggrin.gif

I saw Microcenter has the 3570k for $149 today, and the 4770k for $199. If you have one near you that is a solid option too.

My HTPC is inside an Antec 300 - (the non USB3.0 version) and it's a nice case because you can slow down the fans and make it quiet. Lots of room and good cooling too.

I think you should find a Z series mobo bundle on BF for about the same price. Last year I got the Asrock Extreme Z77 in my server with 8GB DDR3 for $99 as bundle, I would expect like deals this year.

Also- The better Rosewill PSU line (450 watts) is going on sale later this week (15% off again). Not a bad option for 80+ GOLD certified.

Lastly, Antec NEO PSU 520watt is $35 after rebate right now (slickdeals.net) [ not sure you need that much though ]
Yeah I grabbed one back in May 2013 (Extreme 4 + 4770k)

I beat the living crap out of mine (5.0ghz anyone ? )

Really happy with mine. I paid $399 back then for the bundle combo. $300 is a no brainer. Why would you even consider an i3 ????

i3 has to be the stupidest choice CPU of all time- either you do not need performance and likely would use a celeron or pentium for half the price without much difference, or you do want it and should step up to quad for for $50 or less more. There is a big difference between quad cores and dual cores for anyone that appreciates CPU speed. i3 does 3D but that's a stupid reason to get one I think. Again, usually you really care about PQ or you just need basic playback- and again you are better off with a GPU card or a better CPU or simply saving your money on a cheaper dual core.

It seems like the i3 is always stuck in the middle where it's not enough, or it's too much- it's never a good deal. With the deals you can get on i5 and i7 and also on Pentium chips the i3 is often the worst "value" CPU based on street prices.

Pretty much precisely. If you're going to own and use the PC for 3-5 years, I really don't see the $100- or $1-$2's a month- to be of much concern...at the same time I understand that there are times when you simply MUST adhere to a given figure and make sacrifices...but as you noted, this just doesn't seem to be that time or place, from a performance perspective, but certainly a value position, imo.

The "budget" side of this should be a bit more evident as I believe the balance of my components are at or near baseline.

It seems to me that PC building could be one of the finest budget-busting endeavors one can enter into. I've read about a dozen threads on AVS alone and I'd be willing to be that at least 10 of them cruised right by the initial "budget", lol.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #13 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post



1. Case
2. Motherboard
3. CPU
4. RAM
5. Power supply
6. CPU HDD
7. BD drive

I can grab any Windows OS I want from the university I work at for $9, which is nice.

Can this happen for $500?

I would look at this:

http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

$149 3570k is a great option. As is a $199 4770k.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/387554/Z77_Extreme4_Socket_LGA_1155_Z77_ATX_Intel_Motherboard

Don't be afraid of Z77 if you really must save some cash ^

$104 for Asrock Extreme 4 is a good deal, especially if you take of $40 with the bundle. That makes the i5 + Z77 Asrock ~ $230 which is likely cheaper and better than if you got a non Z and non quad core Haswell.
The sticky part is if the socket 1150 is worth it for the small extra (it might be)



That's pretty cheap for a i5 and a Z series Asrock.

$235 + $60 for the Ram you selected brings you to $300.

Now you add a $70 SSD you are $370. If you spent $50 on PSU and $50 on Case you are now $470 - Leaving you about $30 to grab a windows license ($9) and a DVD Drive ($21)

If You wanted BR drive (you do) then you will likely go over budget - so it's possible but it will be close.

In any event I think you are better off stretching your budget and getting a really good deal on a some really good stuff, than spending your budget or less for "cheap" stuff.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #14 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Improved SSD, here?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820168088

this was very well reviewed by toms hardware:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G15X2656

another option?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233404&ignorebbr=1

thanks

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #15 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

When 16 gigs of ram is avail for $60 I guess I'm just not going to skip it. The processor is a jump, but I can get it bundled with the mobo out the door for $300. That's $360 for RAM, CPU and mobo. How much cheaper could it be done? $250? I suppose I'll remove the word "budget".

thanks

James

8 gigs is a lot for HTPC, can't see any reason for 16.

 

I would go with a Haswell core i3 or i5 because it solved a frame rate issue that has been in previous generations of intel graphics.

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post #16 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
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8 gigs is a lot for HTPC, can't see any reason for 16.

He wants it to be able to transcode for his iDevices as well.

Bill
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post #17 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

He wants it to be able to transcode for his iDevices as well.

Bill



A dual core is embarrassing as such tasks....

We are talking about 1/3rd of the number of frames per second. A poor choice for both encoding, or real time trans coding. At least with encoding you can just let the little guy run for hours and hours until he is done, but on transcoding the dual core will drop frames if trying to keep up real time which will increase stuttering.


Btw- if it's not enough stock you can get a good cooler and overclock it tongue.gif


overclocked-processors-Core-i7-4770K-02.png?resize=415%2C411]

Seriously though- the 4770k is total beast. You won't need to OC. In fact- the 3570k and 4670k are both beasts too and you would be fine with either i5 actually.

I have a 3570k in my HTPC and 4770k in my desktop. Both are excellent and a big difference compared to the dual cores I replaced. In comparison to something like my 3.0ghz dual core it's a pretty huge difference in encoding and transcoding.

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post #18 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:36 AM
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I have the A10 at the bottom of the list and that looks pretty accurate for using Handbrake and 1080p. Using Handbrake to detelecine and convert DVR recordings from 1080i MPEG2 to 1080p h264 is basically a real-time operation with that processor. It is much faster to do 720p or less.

FWIW my C2D e6550 would take around 18-30 hours to do a movie in Handbrake.

If you are going to send to devices outside your home network you will probably want lower bitrate/lower resolution files to fit on a limited upload connection (unless you're one of the lucky few without that problem).

My HTPC front end set up
Integration for whole home ATSC, CableCARD, FM radio, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS control & capture, video games, and archived & streaming media playback
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post #19 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Yes thank you. I have a 1 Mbps upload, but 99% of this will be going on at home over my wireless. I do also concur that I will likely end up handbraking a few dozen titles for the kid/wife, but I'm simply not going to run 500 titles through that process.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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post #20 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


A dual core is embarrassing as such tasks....

We are talking about 1/3rd of the number of frames per second. A poor choice for both encoding, or real time trans coding. At least with encoding you can just let the little guy run for hours and hours until he is done, but on transcoding the dual core will drop frames if trying to keep up real time which will increase stuttering.

Thats not entirely accurate - there are more parameters that affect the overall speed. If you're aiming for a higher bitrate at the same resolution that will take more time.

You didn't include anything like the i3 2100 or Pentium G620 - I remember reading they both had pretty high frame per second x264 scores from Anandtech and they are dual core.

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post #21 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:48 AM
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Personally I think the two best SSD controllers right now are the Indilinx Barefoot 3 and the Samsung MDX Controller - See OCZ VECTOR (original) and Samsung 840 PRO.

These are the two "enthusiast" grade products and often sell about $100-$129

The main stream versions are the Samsung 840 and 840 EVO and also the Vertex 4 and Vertex450 lines ($99) [$30 cheaper]


Neutron Series GTX is powered by an advanced Link_A_Media (LAMD) SATA 3 SSD controller, - Not bad either.

The original SSD you are considering uses an older Sandforce 22xx controller which is known for some issues ( but I have owned 20 of them with good luck )

People don't like the Samsung NON PRO versions because they use a cheaper slower NAND inside, but still achieve better results than most SSD because the really awesome SSD controller. The PRO version uses better NAND chips. Vertex450 uses better NAND chips than Samsung 840 non PRO but the controller is not quite as good - so it's about a wash. Personally I like the better NAND if I had to choose only one because I think it's better for long term reliability- but Samsung seems pretty reliable too. They seems to last about 11 years before you wear out the crappier NAND in the non PRO version Sammy's so for most this is not an issue at all. The EVO version uses a newer Samsung's MEX controller and is still based on the same triple-core Cortex R4 design as the previous generation MDX controller- So not much difference between that and the normal 840 in real world but in benchmarks it has some optimization that shows up. Mostly in "turbo write" and faster writes on the smaller sizes.

Something like a VECTOR or SAMSUNG 840 PRO will basically saturate your Sata 3 port :


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6363/ocz-vector-review-256gb

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I am eager to see how the new Sandforce controller (LSI) that replaces the 22xx controller (it's called SF3700 for now) will do. It appear to support both SATA3 and also PCI EXPRESS and thus should deliver better than SATA3 performance.

At this point something like a VECTOR or SAMSUNG 840PRO is going about as fast as your SATA3 port can go.

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post #22 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

Thats not entirely accurate - there are more parameters that affect the overall speed. If you're aiming for a higher bitrate at the same resolution that will take more time.

You didn't include anything like the i3 2100 or Pentium G620 - I remember reading they both had pretty high frame per second x264 scores from Anandtech and they are dual core.

I don't think they are anywhere near close. I have a G860 (basically a i3 2100 without HD2000 GPU) and it's way slower than either my i5 or i7. I also had a G630 before I replaced it with the i5 in my HTPC.

I am not sure the exact numbers but my experience is they are very different (dual core not as good). I would be curious to see a link or chart though.... I could be wrong.

Look at the drop off with the dual core:

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Here is a basic transcode to ipad 2 @ 1024x768 4Mbps
55316.png

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post #23 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I'll keep an eye on this one for awhile, I assume it's a solid choice for my app.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227915&ignorebbr=1

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post #24 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 11:02 AM
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I found this:




Should be good for a comparison of the two. The difference with a i5 is still pretty big BTW..

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post #25 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Alright, I'll keep an eye on this one for awhile, I assume it's a solid choice for my app.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227915&ignorebbr=1

James

I grabbed one for $99 - and at that price I'd say do it.

But don't be afraid to grab a sub $100 Samsung 840, or Vertex450 on BF. I would expect the non enthusiast models to be going from $50-$75 for whichever they have a BF special on them. Just grab whatever- SSD is basically an SSD for a HTPC and they are all pretty good. You won't notice much difference if you drop from a VECTOR or 840PRO to a more mainstream line.

My only point was that in keeping with "value" you might prefer a $99 VECTOR to a $89 cheapo model much like how an i7 is often worth a small premium over i3 because it's better. But just like the i3 is enough, so is the cheaper SSD. You'll have to use your own judgement on what you value and why.

I think a $50-$75 Samsung or OCZ is very likely for BF, they are often the two name brands that go on crazy sales from what I have seen (they are also popular brands) If you can get a $50 Kingston with a Sandforce controller just do it. I got a $49 Vertex3 last year and very happy with it. That has a Sandforce 22xx controller too.

I don't mean to turn you into an SSD Snob, Just that a normal priced of $89 SSD Kingston versus a $99 Vector or 840 PRO that normally is $130 is probably worth the $10 more for the better model. Also a $99 Samsung 840 for $79 is probably a better choice too. The Kingston would need to be under $69 to keep in line with the "value" considering it's not quite as good. It's good you are calibrating your compass on what you like - and what the pricing is like. This way you can jump on a great deal and be confident you got a great product at a great price.

Kingston SSD's have been used by many around here and they are commonly very inexpensive. No fear using them- just @ $90 they are not a great deal. @$69 or less perhaps they are.... That being my only point.

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post #26 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 11:17 AM
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A C2D is old architecture and would probably be slow - well I know its slow. I own one and its worthless for transcoding. All those graphs you posted show that, but none of them include a newer dual core chip.

I would imagine Plex uses single pass encoding when it creates the new streams. So you could do at least two videos at 1080p comfortably with an i3 2100.

Then this from your buddy Assassin
Quote:
I am using an Intel G530 in my server with no issues at all when transcoding to multiple devices
I didn't see his blog include what bitrates and resolutions were going on there though.

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post #27 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post


He wants it to be able to transcode for his iDevices as well.

Bill

Do you have any benchmarks showing a difference between 16g and 8g for transcoding.  

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post #28 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

A C2D is old architecture and would probably be slow - well I know its slow. I own one and its worthless for transcoding. All those graphs you posted show that, but none of them include a newer dual core chip.

I would imagine Plex uses single pass encoding when it creates the new streams. So you could do at least two videos at 1080p comfortably with an i3 2100.

Then this from your buddy Assassin
I didn't see his blog include what bitrates and resolutions were going on there though.

yeah I do not think assassin is right on that...

My G630 (which is higher than 530 ) struggled on encoding. Also the type of video files matters a lot. 60pfs video at 1080p is a lot different than 24fps film @ 480p etc...

Plex and most use a software based encoding I think (somewhere near 120fps on i7 and half that on a dual core) so you enter into the area where the dual core might not be enough depending on the exact video file, resolution, and processing type you are using.

Even if the dual core was enough- it's obviously barely enough. I would caution against anything that is just basically enough- as it could quickly and easily become "not enough" depending on circumstances. If you are doing anything else with your server it might struggle, or if you a playing a video on HTPC while someone else is trying to watch on ipad- etc....

It's nice to have more than enough, and for transcoding real time quad core all the way IMO. I stopped using my G860 3.0ghz in my server for that- and started using my desktop (i7) and I can get much better results now. Over wifi inside the house I want to basically get as much quality as I can get over my WIFI (less than LAN and 1080p full bit rate )

The different results seem to vary all over the place so I am not sure exactly what is enough, or recommended for what anymore. I do know that a quad core is a good safe bet though. I don't doubt that it might be possible to use a dual core at all. I just think a quad core makes more sense, especially when a i5 3570k is $149. That is a no brainer.

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post #29 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 11:49 AM
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I use a i3 NUC for my home automation server, Photoshop, 2 HDHomerun dual tuners and bluray ripping. I have had no problems at all... The only thing I don't do is run Photoshop if I am recording or ripping a Bluray. I browse the internet or watch a recorded show though when I am recording shows though. I have recorded up to 4 shows at a time with all the channels being HD.

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post #30 of 76 Old 11-18-2013, 12:06 PM
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I use a i3 NUC for my home automation server, Photoshop, 2 HDHomerun dual tuners and bluray ripping. I have had no problems at all... The only thing I don't do is run Photoshop if I am recording or ripping a Bluray. I browse the internet or watch a recorded show though when I am recording shows though. I have recorded up to 4 shows at a time with all the channels being HD.

Yeah--- makes sense.

TRANSCODING is changing the resolution in real time. Example: You have a full bit rate 35GB Bluray MKV in 7.1 HD audio of Monsters University on your media server but the kids want to watch it on the ipad. The problem is a 35GB MKV with 7.1 audio and 1080p video is too large and to high bit rate to be able to be transmitted over WIFI with most typical consumer set ups. The solution is "transcoding" that movie to something that is more appropriate (like 1024x768 to match your screen resolution of your tablet and stereo audio to match the speakers or headphones) and that also will travel over your wifi better (without stuttering)

This allows you to rip your movies in full quality uncompressed form- so that you can have maximum quality picture and sound on your main system or theater system and HTPC and still enjoy your media on other devices like laptop, tablet, smartphone.

Also transcoding is needed even more if you want to watch something away from home. Let's say you are overnight in a hotel and you want to watch something - you will likely need to transcode because your upload speed of your internet is much lower than the full bit rate of your media. Crushing the resolution and size down from 1080p to 720p or even 480p and converting the surround audio into stereo will allow the transmission of the media uploaded over the internet to you at another location to be enjoyed.

I watched a movie on my iphone in Hawaii and my media server was home in MA. That is half way across the world !!!!!

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