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post #1 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I recently built a HTPC running 64-bit Windows 8.1 Pro with a Ceton 4 tuner PCI-e card. This computer has a gigabit ethernet port and has a wired connection to the router (also gigabit). I've decided to add a TV to the bedroom upstairs using an Xbox 360 as an extender. Here's the problem. I'm trying to do the unthinkable and stream 1080i video to the bedroom TV via wifi. My router is a Linksys EA6400 which is a simultaneous dual band AC router meaning it has two completely separate radios for 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz. It fully supports beam forming too. The 2.4GHz radio is set to Wireless-N only and the 5GHz radio is set to Wireless-AC only. Despite being an AC router the signal barely reaches the second floor directly above the router. When I take my Macbook Pro upstairs it briefly says it's on Wireless-AC with a transmit rate of 167mbps then it falls back to 2.4GHz Wireless-N with a transmit rate of 30mbps. My Nexus 5 smartphone experiences a similar speed drop. When the Macbook is downstairs on the same floor as the router it reports a transmit rate of 867mbps. Because of this my Xbox 360 has severe audio/video stutter and TV is unwatchable. Does anyone know of a good Wireless-AC range extender?
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post #2 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 08:33 AM
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Have you considered powerline networking?
http://www.amazon.com/b?node=1194444

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post #3 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 10:33 AM
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Never use wireless (even with AC bandwith) to stream 1080 movies. Period.
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post #4 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 04:56 PM
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I use wireless to stream 1080p movies at least 3-5 times per week. Period.

OP, for your situation, you'd do well to hang that linksys off a network drop somewhere upstairs in AP mode from a different router

http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread.php?268551-Setting-up-multiple-wireless-access-points&p=2342484&viewfull=1#post2342484

To pre-emptively answer the questions of . . . but why hang a router in AP mode if you can just run a wire ??
The best reason I could offer is that a network wire isn't that hard to run to one location, but it feels constrictive to me for all of your locations to be wired. 1 router downstairs and one good AP upstairs should cover most people's needs. Dual-band N or dual-band AC routers/APs/adapters aren't cheap and easy, but they are extremely versatile and stable if you set things up correctly.
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 05:26 PM
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I like wires. I run them. Wireless just gives me headaches and I am not sure why. Wire is so simple and it works so good. It's also cheaper. Then again I am fairly strong at construction, and wire snaking etc.. and I am not afraid to get my hands dirty for an hour or two. If you are a wimp, have lots of fear, anxiety or whatever... wireless often can make sense. I do all my wires professionally looking, not just hacking and drilling holes. You can even buy combo power plates for AC power that also have a CAT6 plug in them if you needed it.

If your house has electricity, you can run wires in the same way. Powerline adapters are an option too. Wireless sucks IMO, but you can run 1080i or 720p and 5.1 over wireless (I do with my ipad and iphone and laptop ) The problem I have is more with the full bit rate MKV's of BR rips, specifically the ones that have 7.1 HD audio like DTS-HDmaster and Dolby TRUE-HD. Those play like poop. (stuttering) At the end of the day your source probably won't handle the audio well anyways, and often I have a stereo or a "core" audio track ripped also. I would not want to run a HTPC wireless though. The lack of speed becomes noticeable on menu population and reading from sources. The speed difference wireless to wired is noticeable. If you copy and paste files this is something you can tell easily.

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post #6 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I like wires. I run them. Wireless just gives me headaches and I am not sure why. Wire is so simple and it works so good. It's also cheaper. Then again I am fairly strong at construction, and wire snaking etc.. and I am not afraid to get my hands dirty for an hour or two. If you are a wimp, have lots of fear, anxiety or whatever... wireless often can make sense. I do all my wires professionally looking, not just hacking and drilling holes. You can even buy combo power plates for AC power that also have a CAT6 plug in them if you needed it.

If your house has electricity, you can run wires in the same way. Powerline adapters are an option too. Wireless sucks IMO, but you can run 1080i or 720p and 5.1 over wireless (I do with my ipad and iphone and laptop ) The problem I have is more with the full bit rate MKV's of BR rips, specifically the ones that have 7.1 HD audio like DTS-HDmaster and Dolby TRUE-HD. Those play like poop. (stuttering) At the end of the day your source probably won't handle the audio well anyways, and often I have a stereo or a "core" audio track ripped also. I would not want to run a HTPC wireless though. The lack of speed becomes noticeable on menu population and reading from sources. The speed difference wireless to wired is noticeable. If you copy and paste files this is something you can tell easily.
You've never had my wireless setup nor do you know very much about wireless networking as has been demonstrated throughout other threads in the past.

Arguably the best wireless solutions require some wires, but one wire to an upstairs can feed 3-4 devices with a good AP rather than 3-4 wires. It's also way less headache if your wife says, "I'd like to rearrange the furniture" Do you say, well I've got to re wire that wallplate to the other wall first? biggrin.gif

Also, full bitrate a/v and menu loading is not sluggish at all for me
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post #7 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 07:20 PM
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I guess we are just different. You are right I'm partially noob at wireless. In comparison I'm stronger at running a wire biggrin.gif. I'd probably rewire but I've never had that problem yet. Our tv is mounted on the wall and it would be a major effort to rearrange the room. Running a wire would be the easy part. I'd have to rerun speaker wires, coax , sub cables etc... In the living room. Same story in the bedroom. Drop ceilings and attics and a $10 wire snake lot from harbor freight are just easier for me than setting up wireless routers and access points. Plus it's safer and more secure to wire.

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post #8 of 24 Old 12-02-2013, 07:37 PM
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the key is to make sure you have a good wireless adapter and a good wireless router. a bluray is like 40 megabit, which should be possible over wireless n, let alone wireless ac. and itunes and youtube's 1080p is like 5 megabit, which should be possible over wireless g.
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post #9 of 24 Old 12-03-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

I use wireless to stream 1080p movies at least 3-5 times per week. Period.
As Mfusick said, you are right and I'm partially noob at wireless too.
All my movies that need to be streamed over my home network from Nas are bluray with DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD and sometimes are bluray 3D. So, wireless is definitely not my friend doesn't matter I used good/ famous and expensive wireless adapters and rounters.
As for 1080p movies with DTS and/or DD 5.1, I have 50/50 chances of streaming success. And with that unreliable ratio like that, I'd better never touch/ use wireless when I invite my budies to come home and enjoy new movies I just ripped. Period.
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-03-2013, 08:07 AM
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It's fine if you don't know how to optimize a wireless connection

It's not fine if you spread your own single experience around as some kind of factual limitation on wireless

I'm currently using an Asus RT-AC66u with a wet-610n dual band N access point. AC would be "icing" since dual-N has been working for a long time.

It doesn't just work with 720p, it doesn't just work with compressed 1080p, and on, and on, and on

The only 2 limitations I would have to agree to simply because I don't use (and hence haven't tested for myself) are 3D and 4k. As many others around here, I use makemkv and rip blu rays. I've used wireless for Avatar, Prometheus, Dark Knight, etc (30-40GB files).

Just because it can work doesn't mean it's practical. For the OP I've already suggested that at least one network cable needs to be run to the upstairs and an additional AP hung off it.

HOWEVER, just because it has never worked for you doesn't mean it's impossible
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post #11 of 24 Old 12-03-2013, 08:32 AM
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Some locations have only low background interference while others are so noisy that WiFi has trouble working at all. Cordless phones, microwave ovens and other WiFi networks in the neighborhood are some of the sources of problems.

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post #12 of 24 Old 12-03-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

It's fine if you don't know how to optimize a wireless connection

It's not fine if you spread your own single experience around as some kind of factual limitation on wireless

I'm currently using an Asus RT-AC66u with a wet-610n dual band N access point. AC would be "icing" since dual-N has been working for a long time.

It doesn't just work with 720p, it doesn't just work with compressed 1080p, and on, and on, and on

The only 2 limitations I would have to agree to simply because I don't use (and hence haven't tested for myself) are 3D and 4k. As many others around here, I use makemkv and rip blu rays. I've used wireless for Avatar, Prometheus, Dark Knight, etc (30-40GB files).

Just because it can work doesn't mean it's practical. For the OP I've already suggested that at least one network cable needs to be run to the upstairs and an additional AP hung off it.

HOWEVER, just because it has never worked for you doesn't mean it's impossible

Cost is extreme.


MONO PRICE CAT 6 = $10 ( I already own the tools, tips, crimps etc)

Wireless set up = $150-$500

It's a no brainer considering the wired is still superior. The only time you should run wireless is if you simply CAN NOT run a wire. No matter what. And I would argue that in 95% of those situations I could actually run a wire, and most people either simply lack talent, or give up too easy. You can probably hire a professional to run a CAT6 wire for you cheaper than your set up. I find running a wire easier than the learning curve I always avoid with wireless.

But honestly.. I admire you and your set up. I just felt like arguing with you. biggrin.gif I wish I knew as much about wireless as you, but I am not sure I have the ambition to learn. Not sure why I am not interested in it. I just ain't tongue.gif

But you are not wrong. And I am not right. I just like pretending I am and you are not. eek.gif

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post #13 of 24 Old 12-03-2013, 03:54 PM
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It all started because I lived in an open-concept apartment and refused to give up on an HTPC in the living room and bedroom. I think I ended up with the cheapest way out. It was actually about not giving up as living on a second floor apt with people above and below really cramps your wire-running options. Baseboards don't extend all the way and there was a flush hardwood to tile transition (no thresh-hold from living room to kitchen) prior to the carpeted bedroom.

I'm not as experienced as a builder/carpenter/trim carpenter, but in my lifetime thus far I've demoed a house down to the exterior walls/studs/ceilings with my sister, brother in law, uncle, and dad. Ripped out walls, carpet, tile, linoleum, roofing, etc. Replaced rotted sub-floor, hung sheetrock, replaced exterior door, repaired roofing, rolled felt and nailed shingles, painted interior/exterior, etc, etc, etc. Pretty much everything in renovation, never a grass-roots build though. Never solo (except ripping/scraping linoleum kitchen floor and replacing with tile). Sometimes handiness can't get it done
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post #14 of 24 Old 12-05-2013, 09:39 PM
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I have been streaming blu-ray for years with wireless N and now with wireless AC, no problem at all.
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post #15 of 24 Old 12-08-2013, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe my problem is related to a limitation in the Xbox 360 4GB model's network hardware. I ended up trying an Amped Wireless AC range extender/bridge (the only Wireless-AC extender on the market). I plugged the extender into the Xbox 360's ethernet port and set the 5GHz radio to Wireless-AC Only and routed all traffic to/from the ethernet ports through the 5GHz radio. The transmit rate on the wireless network was about 350mbps with an RSSI of -27. This should have maxed out the Xbox 360's ethernet port. I got enough bandwidth for SD video but not HD video. Whatever video format Comcast uses for their cable TV service apparently requires a LOT of bandwidth. Or it's a limitation in the Xbox 360's hardware. I decided to return the bedroom TV and Xbox for now. Not sure if a higher end router with the same antenna setup as the extender would help (if used with the Amped Wireless extender).

Powerline networking gets significantly more interference than wireless does. As for traditional ethernet wiring, I have no idea how to run cable from upstairs to downstairs without tearing down the walls. If it's possible to make the hole for the coax cable jack in the bedroom bigger and just route ethernet cable through there maybe that will work but I don't want to risk breaking something. Is it really that simple to get ethernet cable from upstairs to downstairs?
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post #16 of 24 Old 12-08-2013, 11:10 PM
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Well a good test would be to use that bridge and connect to the macbook pros Ethernet port. See if it can stream a bluray rip stored on the htpc. I'd be interested in the results
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post #17 of 24 Old 12-09-2013, 02:10 PM
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What exactly is the typical speed of something like Wireless G or wireless N ?

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post #18 of 24 Old 12-09-2013, 03:33 PM
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wireless g is like 2 megabytes/s (16 megabit/s)
wireless n 65 is like 5 megabytes/s (40 megabit/s)
wireless n 150 is like 10 megabytes/s (80 megabit/s)
wireless n 300 is like 20 megabytes/s (160 megabit/s)
100 megabit wired is 12.5 megabyte/s
Gigabit wired is 125 megabyte/s

multiply by 8 to convert megabytes/s to megabit/s
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post #19 of 24 Old 12-09-2013, 08:23 PM
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Try MOCA. I have no problems playing just about anything over it, and no additional wires to run.
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post #20 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 11:35 AM
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... or DECA. Like MOCA, no new wires required, assuming you have coax for cable tv in each room already.

I like wires too, but sometimes pulling new ones isn't practical or affordable. $20 for a pair of DECAs, plug 'em in, and you're done.
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post #21 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I like wires. I run them. Wireless just gives me headaches and I am not sure why. Wire is so simple and it works so good. It's also cheaper. Then again I am fairly strong at construction, and wire snaking etc.. and I am not afraid to get my hands dirty for an hour or two. If you are a wimp, have lots of fear, anxiety or whatever... wireless often can make sense. I do all my wires professionally looking, not just hacking and drilling holes. You can even buy combo power plates for AC power that also have a CAT6 plug in them if you needed it.

If your house has electricity, you can run wires in the same way. Powerline adapters are an option too. Wireless sucks IMO, but you can run 1080i or 720p and 5.1 over wireless (I do with my ipad and iphone and laptop ) The problem I have is more with the full bit rate MKV's of BR rips, specifically the ones that have 7.1 HD audio like DTS-HDmaster and Dolby TRUE-HD. Those play like poop. (stuttering) At the end of the day your source probably won't handle the audio well anyways, and often I have a stereo or a "core" audio track ripped also. I would not want to run a HTPC wireless though. The lack of speed becomes noticeable on menu population and reading from sources. The speed difference wireless to wired is noticeable. If you copy and paste files this is something you can tell easily.

I like wires too. They simply work, and my installs look much nicer than any "professional" installs I have seen.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #22 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

You've never had my wireless setup nor do you know very much about wireless networking as has been demonstrated throughout other threads in the past.

Arguably the best wireless solutions require some wires, but one wire to an upstairs can feed 3-4 devices with a good AP rather than 3-4 wires. It's also way less headache if your wife says, "I'd like to rearrange the furniture" Do you say, well I've got to re wire that wallplate to the other wall first? biggrin.gif

Also, full bitrate a/v and menu loading is not sluggish at all for me

We have 5 routers, 1 main router and 4 access points all connected by wired gigabit network. Once you reach 3 routers, you start to run out of non-overlapping channels.

Even with this arrangement, wireless is not stable enough for WAF for Live/Recorded HDTV. If someone uses a microwave, you get tearing, or "network problems" Used to be a problem with answering the phone too, we switched to 5.8 GHz, and to low powered bases through the house, rather than one more powerful base.

Rearranging the furniture just added (at the old house) 30 minutes to run up to the attic/basement to fish a new wire, and install a new wall plate. Definitely not the end of the world.

Having learned that wife likes to move furniture around, with the new house, I installed 2 drops in each room, in the opposite directions. This way, any rearrangements, just mean plugging into a different wall plate. Once again, not the end of the world.

The positives outweigh the negatives by a factor of 10. biggrin.gif

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #23 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 12:27 PM
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DUDE run a wire. Your going to get brain cancer biggrin.gif

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post #24 of 24 Old 12-10-2013, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

Wireless is not stable enough for WAF for Live/Recorded HDTV. If someone uses a microwave, you get tearing, or "network problems" Used to be a problem with answering the phone too, we switched to 5.8 GHz, and to low powered bases through the house, rather than one more powerful base.
Microwaves wreak havoc on 2.4, not sure why you'd have issues on 5

Very few people seem to have cordless phones in their house these days, but they are usually 2.4 as well

2.4 is great for range, but 5 is where you get great sustainable transfer rates while taking a hit on range. Have you tested and had all these problems after switching away from 2.4? Are the access points still 2.4?
Quote:
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The positives outweigh the negatives by a factor of 10. biggrin.gif
I agree and really never intend to argue this point with the exception that many seem to forget being positives and negatives aside, when only one option is possible it's nice to know that *someone* does have it working. As opposed to, it won't work ever
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