LFE when playing FLAC files in Windows but not when playing WMA Lossless. Why? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 12-22-2013, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Playback Devices > Choose my device > Properties > Enhancements

If I choose the disable all enhancements, I get no LFE from my sub when playing WMA Lossless files.

I DO get LFE when playing FLAC 5.1 files.

I've tried both Windows Media Play and Windows Media Center.

If I uncheck Disable Enhancements box and select "Base Management" box, I do get LFE from my sub when playing WMA Lossless files.

Thing is, I want my AVR to do bass management, not Windows. Thoughts?
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post #2 of 8 Old 12-22-2013, 10:04 AM
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DirectSound always uses exactly the speaker channel configuration that you've chosen. When you play a stereo (2 channel) soundtrack with 7.1 configured, all 8 channels are still active. The front left and right channels will contain audio data but the other 6 channels, including the LFE channel, will be present but silent. When you play a 5.1 soundtrack, you'll hear its .1 LFE track, too, but your system's surround-back channels will be silent.

I suggest using media player software which supports WASAPI. That audio interface was first made available in Vista but is still not supported by many players like VLC. When WASAPI options are enabled and you play a stereo soundtrack, only 2 channels are sent over HDMI, not all 8. Similarly when playing 5.1 soundtracks, only those 6 channels are sent. Since your receiver receives only those specific channels, it knows that it can apply all of its audio processing options, including Dolby ProLogic and DTS Neo.

I'm aware of 4 players which fully support WASAPI: MediaMonkey, XBMC V12.2 (Frodo), MPC-BE and Foobar 2000. It's not the default in any of them, though. You do still have to configure them properly.

For a little more information, see http://www.avsforum.com/t/1495316/which-media-players-reconfigure-hdmi-to-match-number-of-source-channels

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post #3 of 8 Old 12-23-2013, 06:27 AM
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Depends on the avr too.Some Yamaha won't let you apply a sound field to anything over 192kbs.
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post #4 of 8 Old 12-23-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

Depends on the avr too.Some Yamaha won't let you apply a sound field to anything over 192kbs.

Sorry, I'd forgotten about that. Some older receivers can't even process audio sampled at 96K/sec, although they'll pass it through to their DACs for output.

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post #5 of 8 Old 12-24-2013, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

DirectSound always uses exactly the speaker channel configuration that you've chosen. When you play a stereo (2 channel) soundtrack with 7.1 configured, all 8 channels are still active. The front left and right channels will contain audio data but the other 6 channels, including the LFE channel, will be present but silent. When you play a 5.1 soundtrack, you'll hear its .1 LFE track, too, but your system's surround-back channels will be silent.

I suggest using media player software which supports WASAPI. That audio interface was first made available in Vista but is still not supported by many players like VLC. When WASAPI options are enabled and you play a stereo soundtrack, only 2 channels are sent over HDMI, not all 8. Similarly when playing 5.1 soundtracks, only those 6 channels are sent. Since your receiver receives only those specific channels, it knows that it can apply all of its audio processing options, including Dolby ProLogic and DTS Neo.

I'm aware of 4 players which fully support WASAPI: MediaMonkey, XBMC V12.2 (Frodo), MPC-BE and Foobar 2000. It's not the default in any of them, though. You do still have to configure them properly.

For a little more information, see http://www.avsforum.com/t/1495316/which-media-players-reconfigure-hdmi-to-match-number-of-source-channels

So, are you saying it is not possible to get LFE from my two channel WMA Lossless files using Windows Media Center? Thank you!
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post #6 of 8 Old 12-24-2013, 08:11 AM
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Let me try to rephrase what I was trying to say.

First, LFE (Low Frequency Effects) is a separate channel in an input audio file. On input, it's the .1 of a 5.1 audio track, for example. In other words, on input, the .1 channel = LFE audio channel. Music audio tracks usually don't have a .1 channel, but movies usually do (for explosions and the like). The LFE channel is allowed to contain frequencies up to 120 Hz.

For output to speakers, people often use the 5.1 notation, too, but it means something different: the .1 stands for the subwoofer output speaker channel. The subwoofer normally receives the sound from any LFE audio channel plus the low frequencies which originally were in the other input channels, too. That redirection of the low frequencies to the subwoofer is called "bass management". Usually, frequencies below about 80 Hz are redirected to the subwoofer. 80Hz is called the "crossover frequency". Depending on the type of speakers you have, the best crossover frequency might be different: below 60Hz if you have large speakers or higher than 100 Hz if you have small speakers.

Two channel lossless WMA audio files don't contain that separate .1 LFE input channel. Their audio is described as 2.0: 1 right front audio channel + 1 left front audio channel with 0 LFE. The front two channels do contain low frequencies, but there's not a separate special effects channel.

You have several bass management options:
1. You can enable "enhancements" in your computer and have it do the bass management
2. You can enable bass management in your receiver so that it is the device which redirects the lowest frequencies of the left and right front audio channels to your subwoofer. (Most front speakers, even the best floor standing speakers, really can't reproduce the lowest frequencies very well. A subwoofer can: that's what it is designed to do.)
3. You can use no bass management at all, perhaps losing the lowest frequencies of the audio track.

You originally were asking about doing bass management in the receiver. Remember, that really is separate from LFE.

To enable bass management in a Yamaha receiver you need to use the Speaker Setup menu. Select Config. Verify that the Subwoofer is set to "Yes". Then make sure all of your other speakers are set to "Small". That really means "enable bass management". It is not a description of the physical size of the speakers. It's the default, but your description of the sound you're getting suggests that someone changed them to "Large" which is inappropriate. Then choose the Crossover Freq. 80 is a good place to start and is the default. These are the most important settings. Refer to your receiver's manual for a description of the others.

I hope this helps a little.

Selden

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post #7 of 8 Old 12-24-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Doh!! The input that my HTPC was connected to on my AVR (Denon) was set for Direct Mode (which does not apply bass management) rather than Multi-Channel input which does apply bass management. Changed that setting and all is well.

The interesting thing is that I am getting waaaay more bass than when I play the exact same track from my Oppo Blu Ray player. As far as I can tell, the bass management and speaker level settings are the same for both inputs. I'll have to dig into this a little deeper.

Thanks Selden!!
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post #8 of 8 Old 12-24-2013, 05:16 PM
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You're very welcome.

It's good to know you figured it out. For some reason I thought you had a Yamaha receiver.

Enjoy the music!

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