After the failure of AMD to support 4K H.264 DXVA acceleration in Kaveri, when do you think AMD will finally bring it? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 148 Old 01-17-2014, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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After the failure of AMD to support 4K H.264 DXVA acceleration in Kaveri, when do you think AMD will finally bring it?

In the past, to be more exact in Catalyst release notes of Catalyst 10.4 (back in April of 2010), AMD promised full DXVA H.264 support up to 4K x 2K for UVD2.2, in their official Catalyst 10.4 release notes.

That was even before YouTube announces 4K support!

So, ATI/ AMD was very proactive in 2010 of paper support of 4K HW decoding and they saw a real need of supporting 4K H.264 HW acceleration but they never implement it in real world!

NVIDIA introduced in the world their 4K@30fps video processor (VP5) in the first quarter of 2011!
This is a good 3 years ago.

Intel gave us their first generation of their 4K@120fps video processor (IvyBridge) in the first quarter of 2012. This is 2 years ago.

It's 2014 and after 4 years of their promise of 4K x 2K we are still waiting for AMD to deliver what they promised officially.

Kaveri with the "new" UVD 4.2 video engine, once again doesn't support 4K H.264 in HW (DXVA acceleration).

Are there any excuses for AMD to avoid 4K H.264 decoding in HW, even now just a few months before the first motherboards of HDMI 2.0 arrive ?

Waiting for your feedback...

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post #2 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 09:12 AM
 
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They do support 4K H.264 DXVA acceleration in Kaveri:
Quote:
AMD Radeon™ HD 7800 Series Graphics Cards
◾AMD App Acceleration3 ◦Supports OpenCL™ 1.2, DirectCompute 11 & Microsoft C++ AMP
◦Double Precision Floating Point
◦AMD HD Media Accelerator •Unified Video Decoder (UVD)
•H.264
•VC-1
•MPEG-2 (SD & HD)
•MVC (Blu-ray 3D)
•MPEG-4 Part 2 (DivX/Xvid)
•Adobe Flash
DXVA 1.0 & 2.0 support
•WMV HD
•Video Codec Engine (VCE)
Multi-stream hardware H.264 encoder
◾HDMI® (With 4K, 3D, x.v.Color™ and Deep Color)
Maximum resolution: 4096x2160 @ 30 Hz
◦1080p30 stereoscopic 3D (Packed Frame Format)
◦Quad HD/4K/UHDTV video display support
http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/DESKTOP/GRAPHICS/7000/7800/Pages/radeon-7800.aspx#2

Until HDMI 2.0 is fully available, they cannot support 60Hz 4k video since that violates the spec.
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post #3 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 09:36 AM
 
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Guru3D, a trustworthy source with a 19 page review of Kaveri, says this about it:
Quote:
A new videocodec: h265/hevc

Kaveri will support h265/hevc as well. The new video codec is up and coming thanks to the rapid adoption of Ultra HD and thus the sheer need to preserve costly bandwith. Initially we heard that this will be software support rendered over the shader engine ony. High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) is a video compression format and will be a successor to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC (Advanced Video Coding). HEVC is to double the data compression ratio compared to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC at the same level of video quality. It can alternatively be used to provide substantially improved video quality at the same bit rate. It can support 8K UHD and resolutions up to 8192x4320.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_a8_7600_apu_review,3.html


A little more info on that from TechReport:
Quote:
The VCE 2 encoder block adds support for the YUV444 color format, specifically in order to provide better text quality when using 60GHz wireless displays. H.265/HEVC isn't supported in VCE 2. AMD is instead talking about using GPU acceleration via OpenCL to assist with the playback of 4K video content encoded in this fashion.
http://techreport.com/review/25908/amd-a8-7600-kaveri-processor-reviewed/3


And from another source:
Quote:
Hardware-based support for the brand new H.265 / HEVC codec that will be used for 4K content is not yet a part of UVD, but there's good news in this department. Together with Telestream, AMD has developed HEVC codec that uses HSA that's able to play 4K HEVC content on Kaveri with a very low load on the CPU. It's unclear how and when that codec will become available to consumers, but the fact that the chip is specifically suitable for 4K HEVC is great news if you want to build an HTPC. AMD also wants HSA to be used for Open Source projects, so it wouldn't surprise us if they release an HSA-compatible OpenCL open source H.265 codec.
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5156/6/amd-a10-7850k-kaveri-review-amds-new-apu-extras-trueaudio-and-new-uvd
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post #4 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you speak English ?

AMD specs about Radeon 7800 talk about HDMI 4K@30 display.

Not about 4K H.264 HW acceleration.

UVD which is inside Radeon 7800 doesn't support 4K H.264 acceleration.

Stop copy-paste things from the AMD specs that you don't understand.

Run a DXVA Checker to any Radeon card and try LAV Video or any other codec capable of HW acceleration to see that 4K H.264 is decoded by CPU ONLY.

Stop writing garbage in this thread.

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post #5 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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About new Kaveri UVD 4.2.

Still this fixed-function engine (UVD 4.2) doesn't support 4K H.264 acceleration.

The writings of Guru3D, TechReport and Hardware.info say CLEARLY that UVD 4.2 doesn't accelerate 4K H.264/ H.265.

The rest, are future assumptions that someday AMD would like to use OpenCL to accelerate 4K H.264/ H.265 through shaders and NOT fixed-function hardware like UVD, because UVD can't support HW acceleration of 4K.

But if someday that future assumption become true, which I doubt due to the long history of AMD lies like MPEG-2 VLD and MPEG-4 ASP UVD 2.2 decoding and 4K H.264 HW decoding, it will be useless for low performance cards/HSA.

Because something that uses shaders, like that OpenCL assisted HW decoding, it depends heavily on the shader performance.

AMD wants to go back to X1000 series and older, which means 2006 and before, where fixed-function HW like UVD didn't exist and the HW decoding based on shaders was strictly dependant on GPU performance.

This is unacceptable in 2014 where Nvidia and Intel have REAL 4K H.264 Decoding in fixed-function hardware, 3 and 2 years ago.

The only reason for AMD to not support 4K in UVD is because of the cost.

The R&D of 4K H.264 fixed-function decoding needs millions of $, that obviously AMD has difficulties to find.

@ cybrsage

Please make yourself a favor and don't reply to this message because you don't understand a thing of what I wrote and you will be embarrassed once again by your writings.

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post #6 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NikosD View Post

@ cybrsage

Please make yourself a favor and don't reply to this message because you don't understand a thing of what I wrote and you will be embarrassed once again by your writings.

Please make do yourself a favor and don't reply to this message because you don't understand a thing of what I wrote and you will be embarrassed once again by your writings what you wrote your.

Since you're accusing other members of not speaking English in an unusually rude tone I figured I'd correct yours, or at least what Google translated it to.

Are you an Nvidia or Intel rep or something? What's your beef with AMD and 4k? And really what's the point of supporting 4k since the only content available for it is a few YouTube clips? Yawn.
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post #7 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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You are right about rude tone, because cybrsage was extremely rude and offensive in other thread, talking same garbage again like his above posts.

He obviously has no idea about video decoding and especially HW decoding but that doesn't stop him of writing embarrassing posts -for him.

I'm not a native English speaker but I think my posts are accurate and clear of what I want to say.

That's why you tried to correct me without success only in my English and not in the essence of the post.

There are short-length movies in 4K H.264 and there are also 3D files in H.264.

Those 3D H.264 files have not common resolutions, they have resolutions like 2500 x 800, 3840 x 1080, 1920 x 2160 etc in various 3D formats like Full SBS, top-bottom etc.

Those 3D files need 4K H.264 HW acceleration to decode them, if your CPU is not Quad-core.

In 2014 if someone who uses HTPC is not interested in 4K or 3D it would be better to play some games or go for fishing.

And no, I'm not an Intel or Nvidia rep.

I keep same distance from all three and I try to be as objective as possible.

I'm not a fan boy and I don't want to be deceived by any of the big 3 companies.

You have to suspect the one who is constantly supporting one company over the other two.

I hope you are not one of them.
Right ?

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post #8 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikosD View Post


In 2014 if someone who uses HTPC is not interested in 4K or 3D it would be better to play some games or go for fishing.

I still use and enjoy my HTPC in 2014 and I have no interest in 3D nor 4K. Besides, IMO newer stuff is not always better for the most part. I've no doubt that 4K has lots of potential in time, but its not now, not to mention that there isn't any 4K material right now, with the exception of YT. As for 3D i've had no interest in that since its rebirth a few years ago, and even though I have a Panasonic plasma that's 3D capable, I am just fine with 2D material.
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Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

I still use and enjoy my HTPC in 2014 and I have no interest in 3D nor 4K. Besides, IMO newer stuff is not always better for the most part. I've no doubt that 4K has lots of potential in time, but its not now, not to mention that there isn't any 4K material right now, with the exception of YT. As for 3D i've had no interest in that since its rebirth a few years ago, and even though I have a Panasonic plasma that's 3D capable, I am just fine with 2D material.

+1.

I agree.

I see 4k and 3D as high end features, but I see AMD chips as low end products. It's unreasonable to expect as much as the OP seems to expect, and it's also silly IMO. If I wanted 4K support and 3D I would look for a dedicated GPU. Especially 4K since it's very new and very premium there is not reason why you can't just add a GPU card when you are ready to do it, or choose a different option. I am not sure why he is so upset about AMD, they are low end products. I would not build a 4K 3D HTPC out of an AMD CPU, it wouldn't match the rest of the system you are installing it on. Why would you try to spend $300 on a HTPC to run with a 4k theater system ???

I think next year this stuff will be much more popular so for now I have no interest in 4K and I don't own a 4k display yet. I expect most are like me. So it really doesn't matter, and it's simply too early to worry about such things. If you want 4k today choose something else. It's so simple.

Personally, I'd rather build an Intel machine today and add a next generation GPU with HDMI 2.0 tomorrow if I ever found the need.

AMD is still an awesome choice for a budget HTPC and 3D (not 4k). It is what it is. Nothing wrong with that either. OP just expects too much.

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post #10 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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@AVTechMan and Mfusick

OK sure, I understand.

But you have to agree that things must move forward.

If everyone was happy with DVD we wouldn't have BluRay.

And companies, big companies above all, push the things forward.

For example AMD introduced TrueAudio for gaming.

Why ?

What's the use of TrueAudio and what games are using it right now ?

They invest in the future and they want to change audio gaming for a better experience.

If you want movies in 4K H.264, look for Timescapes, Sintel, Tears of Steel, Big Buck Bunny to name a few.

If there was a standard, a specification for 4K H.264, like an extension of BluRay, we would have a lot more movies in 4K, I think.

Moreover, don't forget the 4K encodings from cameras capable of 4K H.264 recording.

A lot of the thousands of 4K H.264 clips in YouTube are coming from 4K recordings.

Finally when all of the smartphones available by 2013 with Snapdragon 800 are capable of 4K@30 fps HW decoding, it seems funny for AMD cards to not be able to support it yet.

For 2014, next generation smartphones and tablets will be able to support 4K H.265 in HW!

@Mfusick

You don't need a discrete GPU for 4K and 3D.
Even the lowest GT1 iGPU of my Haswell Pentium G3420 is more than enough for 4K decoding.
It's far better choice than AMD for budget HTPC.
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post #11 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 12:33 PM
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When it came to DVD replacing VHS, it was considered a big upgrade since DVD had much higher resolution over VHS and many have seen how quickly VHS dropped from the shelves. When it came to Bluray however, the adoption was much slower since many people have already adpoted DVD for the most part. And, depending on how well many movies were transferred, some of the Bluray stuff looked no better than its DVD counterparts.

Regarding AMD, their products have always been on the lower end of the scale. That's why many video editing suites and such use Intel based setups because of it being much better suited spec-wise for intense work, and I am sure it will be the same once 4K comes around. AMD is good for stuff that's more for mainstream like servers, gaming and HTPC's for general use (hence the cheaper prices for AMD chips).
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I generally would want MadVR on 4k machine or projector/display system so I would not choose a Pentium chip, rather a quad core intel with a dedicated robust GPU. That was my point. You don't need 4k support on the low end. It makes no sense. 4k is a high end feature.

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post #13 of 148 Old 01-18-2014, 01:46 PM
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I don't really get who in their right mind would use h.264 for 4K over HEVC / h.265, given that it's double the size and less quality. Makes no sense whatsoever.

The higher end content and resolution you get, the more you need GPU and CPU hardware acceleration in order for your entire system to not chug to a crawl. Efficiency is a good thing to pursue, even in the high end space, and you will need lots of cheaper / integrated GPUs supporting the real-time decoding of HEVC in order for it to get off the ground, similar to how earlier PCs used to struggle with realtime playback of anything greater than 720p, now we are leaping up to 4K and at higher bit depths and dynamic range too.

Lots of exciting new stuff on the horizon. Expect games to start looking a lot better in 4K, at least PC games. Because lots of new TVs and so on will start having 10 bit panels and so will support better colour space and dynamics.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikosD View Post

Do you speak English ?

AMD specs about Radeon 7800 talk about HDMI 4K@30 display.

Not about 4K H.264 HW acceleration.

UVD which is inside Radeon 7800 doesn't support 4K H.264 acceleration.

Stop copy-paste things from the AMD specs that you don't understand.

Run a DXVA Checker to any Radeon card and try LAV Video or any other codec capable of HW acceleration to see that 4K H.264 is decoded by CPU ONLY.

Stop writing garbage in this thread.

The Video Codec Engine is processed by the AMD HD Media Accelerator. As support, I posted information from AMD itself. You post information from...well, from only you. Provide some support for your claims if you wish to be believed over AMD. Right now we have AMD saying one thing and you saying the opposite. Since you are an anonymous nobody on the Internet, why should anyone believe what you say over what AMD says?

You state opinion and act like it is fact. Fact requires supporting evidence. So far, you have shown us none. Stop expecting everyone to just blindly believe you and show us your supporting evidence for your claims. Until you do, expect to not be believed over AMD.
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

+1.

I agree.

I see 4k and 3D as high end features, but I see AMD chips as low end products. It's unreasonable to expect as much as the OP seems to expect, and it's also silly IMO. If I wanted 4K support and 3D I would look for a dedicated GPU. Especially 4K since it's very new and very premium there is not reason why you can't just add a GPU card when you are ready to do it, or choose a different option. I am not sure why he is so upset about AMD, they are low end products. I would not build a 4K 3D HTPC out of an AMD CPU, it wouldn't match the rest of the system you are installing it on. Why would you try to spend $300 on a HTPC to run with a 4k theater system ???

I think next year this stuff will be much more popular so for now I have no interest in 4K and I don't own a 4k display yet. I expect most are like me. So it really doesn't matter, and it's simply too early to worry about such things. If you want 4k today choose something else. It's so simple.

Personally, I'd rather build an Intel machine today and add a next generation GPU with HDMI 2.0 tomorrow if I ever found the need.

AMD is still an awesome choice for a budget HTPC and 3D (not 4k). It is what it is. Nothing wrong with that either. OP just expects too much.

The interesting thing is that the new APUs actually have the latest video card hardware built into them. They cannot compete gaming wise, but for video codecs they do the same as the high end video cards.
Quote:
The new integrated GPU uses Graphics Core Next architecture from the Radeon HD 7000 series and the new AMD R7 and R9 cards
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/5156/44/amd-a10-7850k-kaveri-review-amds-new-apu-conclusion

Of course, you will most likely need a higher end APU to get all the video bells and whistles, just like you need a certain level of discrete vid card in order to get the video bells and whistles.


EDIT: I think the next generation of hardware (not the next incremental steps, though they could surprise me) will be VERY exciting on the APU front. AMD has shown it can do major changes to the GPU side of things. Now they just have to figure out the CPU side of it and they will have a killer product on their hands. I can already see Kaveri being used to great effect in mainstream PCs - the next generation will be even more impressive. Exciting times!
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post #16 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I generally would want MadVR on 4k machine or projector/display system so I would not choose a Pentium chip, rather a quad core intel with a dedicated robust GPU. That was my point. You don't need 4k support on the low end. It makes no sense. 4k is a high end feature.

If 4K is a high end feature, then what is MadVR ?
MadVR is an extremely high-end feature, useless in my opinion, that I have used only for experimental reasons.

It's not high-end from a cost view, but from a "geek" view.

There are no essentials features that EVR/EVR-CP renderer is missing, compared to MadVR for the majority of sources, using H.264 video format.
For example the hardware de-interlacing of Intel's QuickSync VPP engine, are more than enough for every interlaced source.
I could say the same for scaling algorithms or other VPP operations.

Also, I would like to have the ability to decode a 4K clip and display it to a 1080p TV or PC monitor.
It's the same as of decoding a 1080p clip and display it to a 720p or lower resolution display.

Why ?

Because I can and because there are clips in 4K and maybe I don't have right now a 4K display. It's that simple!

BTW, using - the last almost 2 months - a budget Pentium Haswell processor, I have to say that I will probably never go back to a fast Quad core CPU + a dedicated GPU.

Because 2D performance of this 50€ chip is equal to a 150€ dedicated GPU and the Video processor performance of QuickSync is the fastest in the world and fully featured.

The dual-core CPU of the very advanced Haswell architecture, is more than enough for anything but 3D games or professional applications of course (like Video/3D editing etc)

And this 50€ chip can decode 4K H.264 up to 80fps in HW!

Besides 3D gaming, the average user and the HTPC user is completely covered by a fused CPU-GPU-VPU processor like Pentium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I don't really get who in their right mind would use h.264 for 4K over HEVC / h.265, given that it's double the size and less quality. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Do you think that the hundreds or thousands of digital video broadcasters that in 2014 still using MPEG-2! have a "wrong" mind ?

It's time to bust another myth.

H.265 is not a revolution over H.264.
It's just a small, tiny evolution.

H.264 was a real revolution regarding video codecs/ formats.

The distance between H.264 and MPEG-2 is huge in terms of bandwidth/ quality, compared to the H.264 vs H.265 discussion.

Also if we say that 4K H.264 ecosystem is small, then 4K H.265 ecosystem is not existant!
4K H.264 is trying to be established since 2010 and I'm sure that 4K H.265 will come after 4K H.264 or in parallel with it and not over 4K H.264.

Referring to the luck of 4K H.265 HW acceleration right now is just another excuse to avoid discussion about not delivering 4K H.264 HW acceleration yesterday

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

The higher end content and resolution you get, the more you need GPU and CPU hardware acceleration in order for your entire system to not chug to a crawl. Efficiency is a good thing to pursue, even in the high end space, and you will need lots of cheaper / integrated GPUs supporting the real-time decoding of HEVC in order for it to get off the ground, similar to how earlier PCs used to struggle with realtime playback of anything greater than 720p, now we are leaping up to 4K and at higher bit depths and dynamic range too.

Exactly!

That's why fixed-function HW like QuickSync, VPx and UVDx are extremely useful in terms of speed and efficiency for video decoding and going back to OpenCL assistance using shaders for 4K H.264/H.265 is a very bad thing.

That's why VP5 and QuickSync fixed-function HW with 4K H.264 acceleration are useful for a consistent experience of fast and efficient video performance across the board - without dependence of the GPU performance (shaders).

BTW, AMD tried in the past to introduce to the world another OpenCL assisted video decoding, called OVD (OpenVideo Decode), which was a wrapper over DXVA, I think and used only UVD.
That project didn't have any success and they forced to eliminate it because nobody ever developed a decoder or player using OVD.

I'm not sure if I want the same thing happen again for this new OpenCL assisted video (which seems different because is using shaders and not only UVD), in order for AMD to leave the tricks and deliver a decent fixed-function HW for 4K H.264 and H.265 decoder.

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post #17 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

The Video Codec Engine is processed by the AMD HD Media Accelerator. As support, I posted information from AMD itself. You post information from...well, from only you. Provide some support for your claims if you wish to be believed over AMD. Right now we have AMD saying one thing and you saying the opposite. Since you are an anonymous nobody on the Internet, why should anyone believe what you say over what AMD says?

You state opinion and act like it is fact. Fact requires supporting evidence. So far, you have shown us none. Stop expecting everyone to just blindly believe you and show us your supporting evidence for your claims. Until you do, expect to not be believed over AMD.

This is the last time I even bother answering you.
You are probably in the payroll of AMD or you are a very biased AMD fanboy.

I've been testing DXVA in all hardware (QuickSync, VPx, UVDx) the last four years and published my tests in another forum.

In this forum (AVS) I have included in my signature an Excel file called "DXVA Benchmarks" which summarizes a lot of my latest work.

It is you that on purpose or stupidity try to deceive potential buyers that AMD Radeon 7000 series can do 4K H.264 in HW (UVD), something that nobody ever did.

STOP WRITING LIES TO THIS THREAD

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post #18 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 01:49 AM - Thread Starter
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At last!

Blu-ray Disc Association: 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray On The Way

Read more here:
http://www.twice.com/magazine-issue-type/current-issue/blu-ray-disc-association-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-way/109597

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post #19 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 03:22 AM
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After reading the article, while BD 4K may be on the way, it will be a long time before it gets adopted by mainstream consumers. To be honest, I have an older BD player (pre Cinavia) I have had for a few years now catching dust as I hardly ever use it, since I rip all of the BD movies I bought to my HTPC, to where I don't have to worry about player updates and wondering whether the disc will even play from firmware problems. Plus I am sure the DRM on the future 4K discs will be a bigger pain compared to what's available now.

And even though film is being phased out, technically it can display in resolutions higher than 1080p as well. I know there will always be those who are ready to move onto the newest stuff and tech. But for the majority including myself, I am content with what I am enjoying now and am in no rush to upgrade anything no time soon. When 4K becomes mainstream and affordable then it can be revisited then and whether its worth the upgrade. I surely don't plan to keep upgrading and replacing my collection every few years, and some material is not even on DVD, let alone Bluray.
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OK but because 4K Blu ray is on the way, doesn't mean you have to stop ripping 4K discs.

Actually it's the opposite.

You will rip BluRay 4K discs to play mkv 4K files in your 4K capable HTPC system.

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Originally Posted by NikosD View Post

This is the last time I even bother answering you.
You are probably in the payroll of AMD or you are a very biased AMD fanboy.

I've been testing DXVA in all hardware (QuickSync, VPx, UVDx) the last four years and published my tests in another forum.

In this forum (AVS) I have included in my signature an Excel file called "DXVA Benchmarks" which summarizes a lot of my latest work.

It is you that on purpose or stupidity try to deceive potential buyers that AMD Radeon 7000 series can do 4K H.264 in HW (UVD), something that nobody ever did.

STOP WRITING LIES TO THIS THREAD

I will not go hunting for your proof, post it, supporting pictures, etc. Until you do, you have not done it (I realize it really is that simple, but it appeared to need to be said). Support yourself in the thread or expect people to continue to not believe you.
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post #22 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

After reading the article, while BD 4K may be on the way, it will be a long time before it gets adopted by mainstream consumers. To be honest, I have an older BD player (pre Cinavia) I have had for a few years now catching dust as I hardly ever use it, since I rip all of the BD movies I bought to my HTPC, to where I don't have to worry about player updates and wondering whether the disc will even play from firmware problems. Plus I am sure the DRM on the future 4K discs will be a bigger pain compared to what's available now.

And even though film is being phased out, technically it can display in resolutions higher than 1080p as well. I know there will always be those who are ready to move onto the newest stuff and tech. But for the majority including myself, I am content with what I am enjoying now and am in no rush to upgrade anything no time soon. When 4K becomes mainstream and affordable then it can be revisited then and whether its worth the upgrade. I surely don't plan to keep upgrading and replacing my collection every few years, and some material is not even on DVD, let alone Bluray.

Due to distance limitations in viewing, the main reason Ultra HD will be adopted is because the TV, players, etc. prices will eventually become so close to the HD set prices that it will make sense to buy them - much like 3D HD TV sets are today Ultra HD It will eventually become the norm. It will be a LONG time, since the benefit of Ultra HD will not be seen by almost every consumer (unlike VHD to DVD).
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post #23 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 08:20 AM
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If 4K is a high end feature, then what is MadVR ?
MadVR is an extremely high-end feature, useless in my opinion, that I have used only for experimental reasons.

It's not high-end from a cost view, but from a "geek" view.

Those are "fightin' words" around these parts.


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On a separate note is there a list somewhere of what IS available as 4K at this point?


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post #25 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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You mean content, consumer products, HTPC products, HW chips ?

Take a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

and here:
http://www.ultrahdtv.net/movies/

or the more general:
http://www.ultrahdtv.net

Wikipedia has a lot of links with various info

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post #26 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 08:50 AM
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hardware 4k ? or software 4k ? I am not sure what you are asking.

There is the "mastered in 4k" stuff but not much in true 4k yet. Displays are becoming more popular. The Sony 4K line up is pretty popular and well liked around here.

On matters of MadVR I would only imagine it would become more important when going up to 4k and a huge high end display. Not less. Most don't appreciate it's benefits because they are not critical viewers, or have high end displays. My comment was basically voicing my opinion that while the average HTPC user might not care about madvr on his living room TV, the guy who is buying a Sony 4K projector for $30k and having it calibrated on his 150" screen might care more. Different strokes for different folks. But 4k is a high end feature. I think it's higher end than madvr, and I'd guess a lot more around here have madvr than 4k. I know I do.

Edit: nice post above. You beat me.

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hardware 4k ? or software 4k ? I am not sure what you are asking.

There is the "mastered in 4k" stuff but not much in true 4k yet. Displays are becoming more popular. The Sony 4K line up is pretty popular and well liked around here.

On matters of MadVR I would only imagine it would become more important when going up to 4k and a huge high end display. Not less. Most don't appreciate it's benefits because they are not critical viewers, or have high end displays. My comment was basically voicing my opinion that while the average HTPC user might not care about madvr on his living room TV, the guy who is buying a Sony 4K projector for $30k and having it calibrated on his 150" screen might care more. Different strokes for different folks. But 4k is a high end feature. I think it's higher end than madvr, and I'd guess a lot more around here have madvr than 4k. I know I do.

Edit: nice post above. You beat me.

I would go through the hassle and learning curve of madvr if it was able to be applied to the native programs built into WMC. Since it does not yet (maybe never will), I do not use it. I understand why many do, though.
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On a separate note is there a list somewhere of what IS available as 4K at this point?

I went to Blu-ray.com and they only had the yet to be released Seinfeld in 4K listed in their database. It is obviously not up to date.
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post #29 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 09:29 AM
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I would go through the hassle and learning curve of madvr if it was able to be applied to the native programs built into WMC. Since it does not yet (maybe never will), I do not use it. I understand why many do, though.

I agree 100% with you. I do not use it with MB or WMC either. I just use the internal player which works fine. I have MBtheater and Jriver both set up and I can open one of those if I want to use MadVR. Or I can just manually play the movie file with MPC-HC but I do not have this set up as default. I would have to manually launch it to use madVR. The default is the standard player. Wifey likes the simplicity, and I agree with her.

I think this will be a major advantage of MB theater once the project moves farther. Live TV support, good scraper, MB server back end to transcode, ability to use MB3 on ipad, iphone, android, roku, kindle, Linux for consistent solution, and the ability for MBtheater to support Madvr integrated into the native player - these are all huge. Many on WMC are not ready to jump ship (yet) but at some point soon I think the MB3 project is going to get to a point where it's superior and WMC no longer offers much. Live TV support and tuner card support will be a big part of that.

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post #30 of 148 Old 01-19-2014, 07:00 PM
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mb3 will support play back and recording of copy protected TV channels?
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