Western Digital Hard Drives Black vs AV-GP 4TB - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to expand my storage and add 2 4tb HDs to my HTPC.

I'm a western digital guy and was wondering if anyone had any preference of using the black hds vs the AV-GP hds?

I currently have two 1tb WD black HDs, and have had no issues. I would have just purchased the black 4tbs hds, but was curious if anyone has any experience with the AV-GP hds from Western Digital. Is there a major advantage with these over the blacks? I've never had any issues with the blacks I have now streaming to multiple (three-four) devices at a time, but the AV-GP model claims up to 12 multiple streams at once with no issues. The AV-GP is designed for media use it states, but it's also much less in cost and makes me question if it's truly a better drive.

Here are some links from newegg about the two drives:

AV-GP 4TB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236634&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

Black 4TB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236622&ignorebbr=1

Any help/info/opinions would be greatly appreciated!

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post #2 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 06:46 AM
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The two hard drives you choose are probably the worst two hard drives on the planet to put in your HTPC IMO. The value is non existent and what you pay for you simply do not need.

The second worst choice is probably a WD RED because basically the same; what you pay extra for you don't need.

Your post only reinforces what I hate about WD these days. (There is a lot of things to hate about them )

I too once was a die hard WD fan but I learned the error in my ways at the expense of my wallet. Personally I'd choose a cheaper 5900rpm Seagate 4TB these days. It's cheaper and quieter than a WD black and uses less energy while being just as fast. It's quiet and energy efficient enough and usually cheaper to compare favorably to a WD RED or GREEN while still being great performance and low cost.

If you must get a WD brand because of some inner compulsion then look for a WD GREEN or BLUE for cheaper.

If fear and reliability anxiety rule your conscious and you actually believe a longer warranty gives you a longer life expectancy I'd check out a Seagate NAS line. But it's probably not going to amount to a hill of beans in reality. But it's your money.

Warranty and brand preference and voodoo tactics have no real meaningful place in hdd reliability. They are all basically the same. When people worry about reliability of a hard drive I tend to laugh and always think to myself how much better off they would be with the cheaper hard drive and using some of that cash saved for a solid back up plan instead. This also brings a lot less fear and anxiety and a lot more piece of mind.

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post #3 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 07:40 AM
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So you're saying the $199 Seagate is a better value than the $189 Western Digital the OP linked to?

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post #4 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I totally understand what you're saying, but I've never had a failure, not once, with a WD driver, internal or external. I cannot honestly say the same for seagates and Toshibas, the other two I used.

So, with that being said what you do you think of my OP?

Also, do you have any experience with an audio/video specific HD?

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post #5 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feelgoodtre View Post

I totally understand what you're saying, but I've never had a failure, not once, with a WD driver, internal or external. I cannot honestly say the same for seagates and Toshibas, the other two I used.

So, with that being said what you do you think of my OP?

Also, do you have any experience with an audio/video specific HD?

You almost certainly don't need an AV specific hard drive for your purposes, but all things being equal (specifically price) it certainly wouldn't be a bad choice. Doing a quick search on Newegg, it appears that you can also get the WD Green drives for a little bit less, which should also work fine for your stated purposes.

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post #6 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

So you're saying the $199 Seagate is a better value than the $189 Western Digital the OP linked to?

No. Not at all. Not at $200 anyways...

I was saying a 4TB WD GREEN would be better for $154 (Coupon Code EMCPWWD23)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236604

No reason to need to spend more on the AV-GP.

With coupon code the WD GREEN is a good deal. But if was normal price I would get the Seagate over it for $169. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178338
Or the NAS line I mentioned above also for $174 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178393

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post #7 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:01 AM
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Wow you guys are quick ^

But yeah.. I think everyone is on the same page. That WD GREEN would be a nice choice for internal HTPC storage. Or Either Seagate (but I might not pay more for them even though they are probably a tad bit better )

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post #8 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:03 AM
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I have both a 1TB WD RE3 black, and a smaller, older 500 GB green AV drive, and I would honestly say for media purposes, it makes no difference. Any modern HDD, regardless of brand, is adequate enough. I've always been a WD guy myself, but for my media server, it comes down to whatever drive is cheapest. Now, if I was going to use that HDD as a boot drive, I'd prefer the black, but not necessarily over a better priced blue.
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post #9 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Wow you guys are quick ^

But yeah.. I think everyone is on the same page. That WD GREEN would be a nice choice for internal HTPC storage. Or Either Seagate (but I might not pay more for them even though they are probably a tad bit better )


Oh okay. Your first post was a little unclear. You were very clear about hating WD (despite claiming brand preference had no place in the discussion) and it looked to me like you were recommending the Seagate, and saying things like "If you must get a WD brand because of some inner compulsion..." which doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement.

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post #10 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by wiley165 View Post

I have both a 1TB WD RE3 black, and a smaller, older 500 GB green AV drive, and I would honestly say for media purposes, it makes no difference. Any modern HDD, regardless of brand, is adequate enough. I've always been a WD guy myself, but for my media server, it comes down to whatever drive is cheapest. Now, if I was going to use that HDD as a boot drive, I'd prefer the black, but not necessarily over a better priced blue.

Yup I agree 100%. Much of the advantage of the BLACK was designed for random IOPS and seek times and Latency (things that improve an OS) and they do almost nothing for simple sequential reads or writes like copy and pasting a movie folder, or playing back a movie.

Believe it or not the WD BLACKS are often slower than many other cheaper hard drives at the things it matters for HTPC (like copying or reading movie files and folders). WD is slow these days anyways, non of their drives except the Raptor line are going to light the world on fire in benchmarks. Seagate has a superior tracking system on modern 1TB platters, it's too bad they dumb down the speed on the 4TB size. Even at only 5900rpm a Seagate 4TB can easily keep up with a WD Black 7200rpm though... The fact they are cooler and quieter and use less energy and also cheaper is usually why they are good for HTPC over a BLACK. The WD GREEN would be my choice if I had to go WD today, but I would never pay more for it. Luckily it has come down in price recently. Unfortunately it seems like Seagate increased in price. That kind of sucks if you ask me. mad.gif

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post #11 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:17 AM
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I have been saying there is no difference for HTPC media playback/storage for literally years. I am not sure why this is even debated to be honest. Just buy the cheapest one you can find as the bottom line is absolutely no one knows anything about reliability on any of these.
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I have had nothing but bad luck with the WD Green drives - at least the 2TB ones. Their transfer speed was far slower than the 4TB Seagate 5900rpm drives and every one of them has failed on me (though all replaced under warranty). I suspect two things, first is that technology improvements have greatly enhanced the newer drives over the older ones and that since I bought all my WD Drives at the same time I may have received a bad batch.
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post #13 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

Oh okay. Your first post was a little unclear. You were very clear about hating WD (despite claiming brand preference had no place in the discussion) and it looked to me like you were recommending the Seagate, and saying things like "If you must get a WD brand because of some inner compulsion..." which doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement.

I don't hate WD very much at all personally. I am HDD brand agnostic. I do hate that so many blindly follow them a lot more, and that their products are not superior in any way to demand higher prices. I'm not sure why that bothers me but it does. I think you misconstrue my personal dislike for that as hate for WD products. My comments were more suggesting that action is silly and unhelpful and in error. You can't judge a HDD in terms of reliability by the brand that makes it. It's ignorant to think that. Even if a brand had a problem in the past, it's totally not representative in any way of the user experience you might get if you bought one today. With PC electronics they change so quick by the time you can form an opinion it all gets turned upside down. The hard drive you might be angry about from 5 years ago isn't made today, so if you buy something out of emotion based on that today and end up spending more on something less good it just seems really stupid to me. A hard drive is a hard drive.

None of the old technology is even in play any more. And in terms of modern tech (like newer tracking systems, 1TB platters etc ) Seagate has actually been doing it longer and doing it more. Seagate 1TB platters have been out for years now with dominant sales, great reviews and user feedback. If Seagate once sucked at 5 generation old technology I'm not sure it would even matter today... would it ?

I think WD sucks today at the current technology. They are generally pretty slow and often cost more. Two things I hate. But at the same price or lower they can be attractive. For $15 cheaper I'd take that WD GREEN over the Seagate; most of the choice is because it's $15 cheaper.

The other thing I totally hate about WD today is they "specialize" so much and they do such a good job at marketing that they mislead consumers and make it difficult to understand. I know that this is intentional to make more money and higher margins on WD part and I don't really agree with it. They present certain information, and they don't make easily available other information- hoping it will direct consumers into purchasing the higher margin product. I can't tell you how many times I see a thread or a PM asking about a WD RED drive for internal HTPC storage. There is simply no reason you need to spend extra on a RED for basic HTPC internal storage. I got a PM today asking this, and I get or see this almost daily. It gets under my skin. I feel bad for the people spending more on the RED product because WD marketing has misled them to believe it's "better" or "premium" or it might last longer or work better. You don't need RAID support and TLER settings or the WD firmware settings in a basic HTPC or PC storage set up so why spend more over a standard BLUE or GREEN ????

It amazes me how much extra people pay for the WD RED just for the firmware. I should open a side business buying GREEN WD drives, flashing the firmware to RED firmware and changing the color of the label and collecting the difference in price. I'd be rich beyond dreams if I could be as effective at selling people that as WD does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I have been saying there is no difference for HTPC media playback/storage for literally years. I am not sure why this is even debated to be honest. Just buy the cheapest one you can find as the bottom line is absolutely no one knows anything about reliability on any of these.

+1. I agree. Buy the cheaper one. If WD is cheaper get that. If Seagate is cheaper get that. If Hitachi is cheaper then get that. If Toshiba is cheaper.... yup you get it.

Only if they are the same price or very close does the small differences matter. If they are close in price usually you want to look at performance, warranty, etc.. as a better way to disinguish one from another than past experience, gut feeling, or emotional brand preference.

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post #14 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Super appreciate the speed of everyone's responses!!!

I'm going to stick with WD, and go with the AV-GP 4tb.

Super happy I posted here.

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post #15 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I have had nothing but bad luck with the WD Green drives - at least the 2TB ones. Their transfer speed was far slower than the 4TB Seagate 5900rpm drives and every one of them has failed on me (though all replaced under warranty). I suspect two things, first is that technology improvements have greatly enhanced the newer drives over the older ones and that since I bought all my WD Drives at the same time I may have received a bad batch.

I had the same exact experience. I've had generally poor luck with WD GREEN drives (many know that around here).

I think that is why I find it so funny when people complain about another brand like Hitachi or Seagate and say they are WD only fanatics because of bad experience in the past. Since the time of that bad Seagate line, WD has had plenty of bad line or batches of it's own but that person simply never experienced it. The Hitachi Deathstar was a notoriously bad batch, but in general Hitachi's were always really good and reliable hard drives. The issues with the Seagate 7200.11's and 12's were pretty wide spread too, but again that has nothing to do with the 14/15/16 lines of now and the future.

So if I try to follow my own logic here I'd say that the past issues with older WD GREENS probably doesn't manifest itself in the current model line up, and the past experience probably is not very indicative of a future experience if I was to purchase a new WD drive.

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post #16 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 08:39 AM
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I think you misconstrue my personal dislike for that as hate for WD products.

No, I haven't. You've been very clear that you hate the WD brand, (you were clear to use the word "hate" not "dislike") all while telling people that brand preferences don't belong in the conversation. I can post the quotes if you'd like.

And for the record, brand loyalty is a great way to reward a company that has served you well in the past. Following it to unreasonable lengths is certainly a bad idea, but doing anything to an extreme usually is.

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post #17 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 09:12 AM
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No, I haven't. You've been very clear that you hate the WD brand, (you were clear to use the word "hate" not "dislike") all while telling people that brand preferences don't belong in the conversation. I can post the quotes if you'd like.

And for the record, brand loyalty is a great way to reward a company that has served you well in the past. Following it to unreasonable lengths is certainly a bad idea, but doing anything to an extreme usually is.

Fair enough. I agree with you mostly. But honestly... I really don't "hate" WD. Honestly I do not. I own and would buy again their products. I do HATE how they have their current product line set up to maximize their profits at the expense of consumer ignorance. I also hate when I see someone say something stupid and blindly follow WD or promote it. I'm not sure why I dislike this so much. perhaps I should not care as much as I do. I just feel like it's not helping anyone to remove the veil or cloud of ignorance that drapes over the average hard drive buyer. Promoting senseless brand superiority with no factual basis in reality really drives me nuts.

I never get upset when someone says something like:

I like or prefer the WD XXXX because it's $15 cheaper.
or
I like or prefer the WD XXXX because I have bought a few and I've had good luck with them.
or
I like or prefer the WD XXXX because it's the faster, or quieter, or has a better warranty.

That all makes perfect sense to me. A lot more sense than the myriad of idiots paying more for more expensive specialized HDD's because either other owners or WD marketing has lead them to this path, and they in turn become owners too and then adopt the natural self promotion and defense of their own personal purchase decision only adding more to the self generating spiral of HDD ignorance.

It's time to break the cycle. HDD is a HDD. They are all good. They are all more like each other than different. Buy with your brain and your wallet not your heart. If you fear reliability you should redirect your energy towards your back up plan because all hard drives break. Even the best ones. I'd rather have crappy hard drives with a good back up plan, than expensive 5 year warranty drives and a suspect or non existent back up plan. I'd feel a lot better with the crappy drives. They'd likely end up lasting just as long anyways. There is some evidence to prove this. More importantly there is no evidence at all to disprove it.

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post #18 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 09:48 AM
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Fair enough. I agree with you mostly. But honestly... I really don't "hate" WD. Honestly I do not.

Then honestly, stop saying that you do. Honestly, you've done it nearly half a dozen times in this thread alone. Honestly.

Quote:
Your post only reinforces what I hate about WD these days.
(There is a lot of things to hate about them )
The other thing I totally hate about WD today is ...
I think WD sucks today at the current technology. They are generally pretty slow and often cost more. Two things I hate.
I do HATE how they have their current product line set up to maximize their profits at the expense of consumer ignorance.

What would you have WD do? Stop making NAS drives? The Red drives are clearly labeled and marketed as such. Would you have them drop their energy saving line? Their Green Drives are clearly labeled and marketed as such. Ditch their high end line? The Black drives are clearly labeled and marketed as such.

Tell me which Seagate hard drive is best for a particular use, without referencing an 11 digit model number. At least WD has the marketing savvy to make their products easy to distinguish from one another.

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post #19 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 11:21 AM
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So exploring the opinion that all drives are basically similar, I find I have to replace a 1TB drive in my pc. It's about 4 years old, and showing signs of failing.

I see Staples has a 3TB internal USB 3.0 drive on sale for $95 (with code 83013) ending tonight at midnight. I figure I can remove it from the case (though would this void the warranty?).

My hesitation is because most of the reviews on their site from the last 6 months are complaints about the drive dying within days or weeks. I have to go back to August reviews to find any positive ones.

Is this most likely due to a bad batch, or the fact that most people don't bother to review unless they have a bad experience? Should I not let these reviews influence me?

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post #20 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 11:31 AM
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So exploring the opinion that all drives are basically similar, I find I have to replace a 1TB drive in my pc. It's about 4 years old, and showing signs of failing.

I see Staples has a 3TB internal USB 3.0 drive on sale for $95 (with code 83013) ending tonight at midnight. I figure I can remove it from the case (though would this void the warranty?).

My hesitation is because most of the reviews on their site from the last 6 months are complaints about the drive dying within days or weeks. I have to go back to August reviews to find any positive ones.

Is this most likely due to a bad batch, or the fact that most people don't bother to review unless they have a bad experience? Should I not let these reviews influence me?

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Well, first of all, the idea that all hard drives are similar, should have a great big asterisk at the end. If you're talking about slapping a hard drive in a PC for bulk storage, and/or streaming movies, then pretty much all hard drives are the same. That doesn't mean that NAS drives, don't have their advantages when used in a NAS. It doesn't mean that high performance drives, don't perform better... it just means they don't perform better for streaming movies.

Yes, you can typically crack the case on most external drives, and use them internally. Technically it will void the warranty, but there are plenty of anecdotes about people getting warranty replacements from some manufacturers (I'm not sure which off the top of my head)

As far as the negative reviews go, generally, dissatisfied customers are going to be more motivated to post a review than happy ones, but if the negative reviews seem to be focused to a specific time frame, it wouldn't be crazy to suggest it could have been a bad batch of drives.

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post #21 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 11:40 AM
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I have a WD black that I brought years ago in my HTPC and that sucker puts out a ton of heat. Only haven't replaced it because I'm upgrading my HTPC soonish. Do yourself and your HTPC a favor and avoid it.
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post #22 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 11:44 AM
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Got it. I see the Egg has a Seagate Expansion 3TB on sale today for $99 (code EMCPWWC64). I think I'll go with that.

It also has negative reviews, but not to the extent of the Toshiba. Since I'm going to be using it for storage, maybe I can keep it in it's enclosure till the warranty expires.

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post #23 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 11:44 AM
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I lost 2 Seagate drives, a 2tb and a 3tb. Lost all my rips and recorded tv shows. I'm planning on Building a NAS to add some redundancy to my system but I won't be getting any Seagate drives. Right now I'm using a 500gb WD blue drive to record my shows and I've ripped 4 Seasons of The Wire. I have enough space to last the remaining season so I'm ok. This drive has been going strong for 3 years now while the 3tb drive didn't last 8 months. The 2tb drive lasted a but over a year. I don't know if it's the constant read/write to these drives, indexing, streaming from multiple devices at a time, I just don't know. I did the same with the WD Blue drive the first year I owned m HTPC and only replaced it because if lack of capacity.

After reading this thread I'm not sure what to purchase. The WD reds were at the top of the list and I don't trust the greens (I've seen too many fail on the job).
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post #24 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by groove93 View Post

I lost 2 Seagate drives, a 2tb and a 3tb. Lost all my rips and recorded tv shows. I'm planning on Building a NAS to add some redundancy to my system but I won't be getting any Seagate drives. Right now I'm using a 500gb WD blue drive to record my shows and I've ripped 4 Seasons of The Wire. I have enough space to last the remaining season so I'm ok. This drive has been going strong for 3 years now while the 3tb drive didn't last 8 months. The 2tb drive lasted a but over a year. I don't know if it's the constant read/write to these drives, indexing, streaming from multiple devices at a time, I just don't know. I did the same with the WD Blue drive the first year I owned m HTPC and only replaced it because if lack of capacity.

After reading this thread I'm not sure what to purchase. The WD reds were at the top of the list and I don't trust the greens (I've seen too many fail on the job).

I have bough Hitachi drives and never has any troubles with any of them.
I avoided seagates because I have heard of them failing.
So I am glad to see Hitachi still is in the game.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hitachi-Deskstar-7K3000-2-TB-Internal-7200-RPM-3-5-HDS723020BLA642-Hard-Drive-/121256030101?pt=US_Internal_Hard_Disk_Drives&hash=item1c3b6c2f95
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Well, first of all, the idea that all hard drives are similar, should have a great big asterisk at the end. If you're talking about slapping a hard drive in a PC for bulk storage, and/or streaming movies, then pretty much all hard drives are the same. That doesn't mean that NAS drives, don't have their advantages when used in a NAS. It doesn't mean that high performance drives, don't perform better... it just means they don't perform better for streaming movies.

Yes, you can typically crack the case on most external drives, and use them internally. Technically it will void the warranty, but there are plenty of anecdotes about people getting warranty replacements from some manufacturers (I'm not sure which off the top of my head)

As far as the negative reviews go, generally, dissatisfied customers are going to be more motivated to post a review than happy ones, but if the negative reviews seem to be focused to a specific time frame, it wouldn't be crazy to suggest it could have been a bad batch of drives.

I had one I thought was failing and the warranty for Seagate said the drive was part of a greater item - so I would have had to put it back in the case to send it back. Turns out my older motherboard could not run 4TB drives (had no problem with 3TB) and was the culprit.
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I'd rather have crappy hard drives with a good back up plan, than expensive 5 year warranty drives and a suspect or non existent back up plan. I'd feel a lot better with the crappy drives. They'd likely end up lasting just as long anyways. There is some evidence to prove this. More importantly there is no evidence at all to disprove it.

I have no problem with someone buying a drive for the longer warranty, even if more expensive...as long as they also have a backup plan of some sort. smile.gif The peace of mind provided by a longer warranty period is worth the extra cost to some people.
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Then honestly, stop saying that you do. Honestly, you've done it nearly half a dozen times in this thread alone. Honestly.
What would you have WD do? Stop making NAS drives? The Red drives are clearly labeled and marketed as such. Would you have them drop their energy saving line? Their Green Drives are clearly labeled and marketed as such. Ditch their high end line? The Black drives are clearly labeled and marketed as such.

Tell me which Seagate hard drive is best for a particular use, without referencing an 11 digit model number. At least WD has the marketing savvy to make their products easy to distinguish from one another.

Good points. I wish Seagate would have a similar naming scheme as well to make it a little easier.
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It's time to break the cycle. HDD is a HDD. They are all good. They are all more like each other than different. Buy with your brain and your wallet not your heart. If you fear reliability you should redirect your energy towards your back up plan because all hard drives break. Even the best ones. I'd rather have crappy hard drives with a good back up plan, than expensive 5 year warranty drives and a suspect or non existent back up plan. I'd feel a lot better with the crappy drives. They'd likely end up lasting just as long anyways. There is some evidence to prove this. More importantly there is no evidence at all to disprove it.

This is mostly nonsense. You're over generalizing based on a single application. You do this all the time. You scream from the rooftops that SSDs are superior to HDDs, based solely on your own narrow experience and completely ignore the experience and application of others. When using a hard drive for bulk storage in a PC, you'll likely not notice a difference between one multi-terabyte drive and the next. But not everyone uses their drives for bulk storage. Sure, that's all you use them for, but your experience is not representative of the computer using world as a whole.

Sure, you see no benefit in brand loyalty. Others see it as a way to reward a company for previous purchases that made for a good experience. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the product itself, and everything to do with the customer service that a particular company provided. Sure you boil down everything to what you perceive to be the best bang for your buck, but not everyone has the same set of priorities.

You seem to think it's fine to use what you say are "crappy" drives, as long as you have a good backup plan, but not everyone shares the same views of risk/reward that you do. And they people with differing opinions probably don't appreciate being called "idiots" just because they don't have identical priorities to you.
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post #29 of 149 Old 01-19-2014, 07:30 PM
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This is mostly nonsense. You're over generalizing based on a single application. You do this all the time. You scream from the rooftops that SSDs are superior to HDDs, based solely on your own narrow experience and completely ignore the experience and application of others. When using a hard drive for bulk storage in a PC, you'll likely not notice a difference between one multi-terabyte drive and the next. But not everyone uses their drives for bulk storage. Sure, that's all you use them for, but your experience is not representative of the computer using world as a whole.

Sure, you see no benefit in brand loyalty. Others see it as a way to reward a company for previous purchases that made for a good experience. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the product itself, and everything to do with the customer service that a particular company provided. Sure you boil down everything to what you perceive to be the best bang for your buck, but not everyone has the same set of priorities.

You seem to think it's fine to use what you say are "crappy" drives, as long as you have a good backup plan, but not everyone shares the same views of risk/reward that you do. And they people with differing opinions probably don't appreciate being called "idiots" just because they don't have identical priorities to you.

Actually... "crappy" was more a joke that is tongue in cheek. They are not really "crappy" at all. That was the joke. Of coarse no one would really want anything that is "crappy" in reality. I was trying to suggest there really isn't such a thing a crappy drive so overpaying for some ignorant belief generated from here-say, emotion, or MFG marketing seems like a waste of money to me. Buy a hard drive based on the merits of it's features and values is all I am suggesting, and hold off the crazy talk about reliability because it's just crazy talk with no basis on another person's reality. If you care about if it breaks and getting stuck with a loss buy a better warranty model, or an extended warranty. If you care about data loss adopt a solid back up plan. Don't put your faith in a mechanical hard drive and brand preference.

I've owned over 100 hard drives of all brands and models and they all basically lasted me the same amount of time. Hard drives all last about the same regardless of brand or model. Look at any hard drive statistics and it will prove this is mostly true almost universally. Every time I see data posted like reliability of Seagate vs Hitachi vs WD they are all within a couple percent of each other and they are all generally low percentage of failures. The data changes but over long time and over many models and brands you see they are basically the same. Even cheaper consumer models seem to last about the same as expensive enterprise models. All the data I have ever seen on hard drive reliability only reinforces what I have experienced myself personally, and the only real take away is they are all basically about the same. It's not like one has a 2% failure rate and another has a 60% failure rate. It's usually like one is 2% and another is 3%. The measurement effectiveness has a higher percentage range of error than the difference between them in most cases

And- I'll agree with all your points you make about my posting style and my generalizing. You are right. I am generalizing from a basic perspective I think would apply to most others. Not all others, just most. So I guess I will admit you are partly right. Does that mean I am mostly right too?

I don't feel like getting in another pissing match and arguing semantics about the 5% unique minority that makes me possibly wrong so I'll just concede now and save everyone the trouble. I'm talking about the basic majority, the folks that buy hard drives and use them to store movies. The type of basic applications that are appropriate to this forum. I'm not talking about anything else so lets just be clear about that now so we don't go 5 pages of pointless bickering.

-


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So if they're all basically the same for bulk storage purposes what's your beef with WD? Why all the WD hate? You've basically nailed them up on a cross in this thread only to back peddle and say that brands don't matter, then go right back to listing everything you hate about Western Digital. You've gone out of your way to accuse them of taking advantage of customer ignorance, but you haven't explained how they are any different from Seagate, or Hitachi or any other manufacturer.

You're doing the message board equivalent of "Bless his heart..." where you think you can get away with saying anything about a company as long as you stick the "but brand doesn't really matter" footnote at the end. It's completely disingenuous.
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