Hitachi launches 6TB hard drive filled with Helium ! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.hgst.com/hard-drives/enterprise-hard-drives/enterprise-sas-drives/ultrastar-he6

I stumbled across this looking at Hitachi hard drives in response to the recent backblaze study suggesting Hitachi as a reliable hard drive. Looks pretty cool!
Quote:
6TB
3.5-inch Helium Platform Enterprise Hard Drive

World’s first helium HDD – Patented HelioSeal™ technology enables this new building block for future growth
Industry’s first 6TB HDD – Innovative 7Stac™ disk design enables the world’s highest capacity
TCOptimized™ platform – Delivers higher capacity, lower power, cooler and quieter operation in a standard 3.5-inch form factor
HGST delivers the world’s first hermetically sealed, helium hard drive, the Ultrastar® He6 for massive scale-out environments. Why does helium make a difference? Helium has only one-seventh the density of air. Replacing air with helium inside a hard drive dramatically reduces the turbulence caused by the spinning disk, cuts power consumption and results in a lower temperature within the disk drive.

The reduction in turbulence for the spinning disk allows HGST to offer a seven-disk design in a traditional 3.5-inch form factor. In addition to being the world’s first helium-filled hard drive, HGST Ultrastar He6 is also the first hard drive in the industry to offer a 6-terabyte capacity. This design delivers a 50% capacity gain and still reduces the energy needed to run the drive by up to 23%.

http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/83F507776F03BE7C88257C37000AED30/$file/USHe6_ds.pdf

50% more capacity !
23% lower idle power !
49% better watts per TB !
30% quieter !
4c Cooler !
50g Lighter weight !


Yes please. Sounds awesome for HTPC or storage media servers.

It's not some crappy 5400rpm hard drive to do it either, it's 7200rpm biggrin.gif 177MB/sec sustained transfer rate is nice! Add in 5 year warranty and the industry highest 2 million MTBF rating and that is about double the industry average of the current Seagate or WD models.

http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/F8B3820BADAD9E6588257C160032F257/$file/HeliumProductSummary_final.pdf

Hoping cost is not excessively high, or comes down to resonable prices at some point quickly. These clearly have something to offer.

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post #2 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 10:51 AM
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Here we go on the "crappy 5400 rpm" nonsense again.
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post #3 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Here we go on the "crappy 5400 rpm" nonsense again.

It's my opinion and I am entitled to it. tongue.gif It is indeed nonsense when slowing the spindle speed down at the expensive of performance with almost no real significant improvement in thermals, noise or energy consumption.

The trade off simply is not worth it in my opinion, and lots of people (including professional reviewers) agree with me. If you favor them that's great but they have no love from me and there is nothing wrong with my expressing that opinion; especially when it can be backed up with facts and evidence to support it.

Now a bigger hard drive that is faster, cooler, quieter, and more energy efficient like this Helium filled beast -- Well that is pretty awesome to me. Much more desirable than a slow 5400rpm drive. My use of the word "crappy" is to signify my general dislike for them, and also a single word for their performance. This is not new and has been discussed many times.

Where is Ajhieb ? This page should get to 10 pages soon I'm guessing. Just one word can set it off. biggrin.gif

BTW- This Helium filled product is the major reason why WD bought Hitachi because they want to employ this technology, and I think this tech will replace the 5400rpm as a better alternative and better balance of energy savings, heat, noise, size, and performance in the future. It just makes sense.

I wonder how the Seagate HAMR technology will compete ?

http://www.seagate.com/about/newsroom/press-releases/HMR-demo-ceatec-2013-pr-master/

EDIT: I am sorry for the word "crappy" Apologizes to all so this thread can stay on track. Don't make me regret my apology with bickering please.

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post #4 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 01:09 PM
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So if this springs a leak in my case will be talking in a high pitched voice?

And will a server farm with these start to float?

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post #5 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 01:32 PM
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Yes please! Too bad I'll have to buy an extra one solely for a parity drive. Just hope the price is reasonable.
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post #6 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 01:50 PM
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6TB @ $800+ = no thanks

I'll stick with a 4TB in the $150-$170 range.
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post #7 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

It's my opinion and I am entitled to it. tongue.gif It is indeed nonsense when slowing the spindle speed down at the expensive of performance with almost no real significant improvement in thermals, noise or energy consumption.

As the Brits would say, that is complete and utter bullocks.

Slowing the spindle speed down absolutely improves thermals, noise and energy consumption.

The problem is you're not comparing apples to apples. You're comparing drives from different generations, with different areal densities, different numbers of platters, manufactured using different processes. As always you like to make broad generalizations without actually having any meaningful data to back up what you say.

Take any 7200rpm drive and slow the spindle speed to 5400rpm. Yes it will be slower. But it will also use less energy, be quieter, and stay cooler. Those are unavoidable results of basic physics. If you're comparing a 7200rpm drive and a 5400rpm drive, and the 5400rpm drive is louder, hotter, and/or using more energy, the difference is in the one of the other areas I mentioned above, not because of the drive spinning at 5400rpm. You're trying to imply a connection that simply isn't there.

And yes, as stated many, many, many times before, you're entitled to your opinion and your allowed to come on here and share it with everyone within the framework of the discussion board. But I have the same right to come in here and point out why your broad generalization isn't right all of the time, and how it is detrimental to continue spreading your not-entirely-reality-based-opinion on here as if it is some sort of immutable fact.

The reality is, (regardless of what your own personal experiences may be) 5400rpm drives don't suck for plenty of applications that are quite common in this community. You even acknowledge that on occasion (when confronted with the undeniable reality enough times) yet every time the subject comes up again new, you start down the same old, "these drives are crappy!" road, knowing that eventually you're just going to end up caving later when you run out of poor logic to try and talk your way out of it.

But if you wanna do this dance again, I say lets boogie.
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post #8 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

BTW- This Helium filled product is the major reason why WD bought Hitachi because they want to employ this technology, and I think this tech will replace the 5400rpm as a better alternative and better balance of energy savings, heat, noise, size, and performance in the future. It just makes sense.

Do you have some sort of insider knowledge or is this speculation? You state it as if it is a fact.


Quote:
EDIT: I am sorry for the word "crappy" Apologizes to all so this thread can stay on track. Don't make me regret my apology with bickering please.

No you're not, so don't even try to pass it off as if you are. If this had been the first time you'd done it you might have a leg to stand on, but since there are multiple threads on here where you insist that 5400rpm drives are "crappy" it's pretty clear what your intent was. You don't get to say it (leave it out there) and then act like it never happened. Actions have consequences. If you didn't want bickering over a battle you've alredy lost countless times, it could have easily been avoided. You chose a different path though.
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post #9 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCS View Post

So if this springs a leak in my case will be talking in a high pitched voice?

And will a server farm with these start to float?

tongue.gif

Valid concerns biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post


But if you wanna do this dance again, I say lets boogie.

No thanks. I'll pass. I don't like 5400rpm drives and we can leave it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pohh-bah View Post

6TB @ $800+ = no thanks

I'll stick with a 4TB in the $150-$170 range.

Patience. This happens with all new technology. Economies of scale will bring it down. I remember when 4TB was $399 and it was not that long ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

Do you have some sort of insider knowledge or is this speculation? You state it as if it is a fact.

I read it in a few articles about the purchase, and the technology. I do think the Hitachi tech was a big part of the reason why WD made the purchase, but if you have other evidence I'd be willing to listen and hear it. WD already had market share, and ability to make hard drives and for the amount they paid they could have easily built a new factory if production was the reason. They wanted the intellectual property, and the enterprise line. Those were the two big ones, two areas where Hitachi was leading the industry (and still is). I would not call this insider knowledge, and yes about the guess of future it's speculation, but I never claimed it was not. I think this tech can replace 5400rpm tech as a better alternative to reducing heat/noise/energy and actually increasing rather than decreasing performance.

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post #10 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

No thanks. I'll pass. I don't like 5400rpm drives and we can leave it at that.

If it's a subject you seems to be so averse to, perhaps you might want to stop bringing it up repeatedly. As the kids would say... "don't start none, won't be none."

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I read it in a few articles about the purchase, and the technology.

Links?

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post #11 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 04:22 PM
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Thank God someone else is willing to step up and provide some actual factual data on this forum for once. I have had this same exact argument for well over a year. Yet here we are again.

I think I will grab some popcorn this time.
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post #12 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Thank God someone else is willing to step up and provide some actual factual data on this forum for once. I have had this same exact argument for well over a year. Yet here we are again.

I think I will grab some popcorn this time.

Just wait til he get's Godwinned. Then it should get really entertaining.

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post #13 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

Just wait til he get's Godwinned. Then it should get really entertaining.

Lol. I never heard of that before. Interesting concept. tongue.gif Nice link. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Thank God someone else is willing to step up and provide some actual factual data on this forum for once. I have had this same exact argument for well over a year. Yet here we are again.

And what data exactly are you requesting ? Careful what you wish for, you might get it.

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post #14 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 05:47 PM
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The best part about this drive is that it means further price drops on 4TB drives. I'm going to need another batch of drives before long, and 4TB drives are finally starting to get to the right price.
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post #15 of 27 Old 02-01-2014, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

It's not some crappy 5400rpm hard drive to do it either,

I'll take the "crappy" 5400 RPM 6 TB drive off your hands for $200. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by pohh-bah View Post

6TB @ $800+ = no thanks

I'll stick with a 4TB in the $150-$170 range.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

The best part about this drive is that it means further price drops on 4TB drives. I'm going to need another batch of drives before long, and 4TB drives are finally starting to get to the right price.

If the new drives are hitting the marked at $800+ then I don't think they'll have an immediate effect on the 4TB drives. Later down the road... absolutely.

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post #17 of 27 Old 02-02-2014, 12:14 AM
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At that price, you would be crazy to buy one. I was hoping that something larger than 4TB would be available soon, as I'm running out of drive space again, but I'm not paying $800 for a drive. 4TB prices are bad enough.

Is anyone else concerned that this is just another potential point of failure for the drive?
If it all works well, it seems like it would be better for the drive's life, but I don't know that I want to be a first generation adopter of them.
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post #18 of 27 Old 02-02-2014, 12:28 AM
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Damn! I was kinda expecting $400-500, 50 a terabyte plus 100 or so for the new technology.

Luckily I won't need a new drive for a while so prices will hopefully fall.
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post #19 of 27 Old 02-02-2014, 01:33 AM
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And here is the new backup device they just released to go with it:

PH3420A.jpg
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post #20 of 27 Old 02-02-2014, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

I'll take the "crappy" 5400 RPM 6 TB drive off your hands for $200. biggrin.gif

Deal!

I have three WD 2TB GREEN DRIVES (6TB TOTAL)

PayPal me $200 and I'll ship them in 24 hours and guarantee non DOA or refund/return.

Serious. biggrin.gif

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post #21 of 27 Old 02-02-2014, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

PayPal me $200 and I'll ship them in 24 hours and guarantee non DOA or refund/return.

If I had my tax return back, I'd actually take you up on that. lol
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post #22 of 27 Old 02-02-2014, 06:32 AM
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why? you can 2 3tb drives for the same price., brand new and with a warranty.
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post #23 of 27 Old 02-06-2014, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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why? you can 2 3tb drives for the same price., brand new and with a warranty.

Exactly biggrin.gif

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post #24 of 27 Old 02-07-2014, 10:04 AM
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The more I think about Helim, the more I think that these will be a flop.

Helium is ridiculously difficult to seal, and keep sealed. With only 2 protons, and 2 electrons it is a very small molecule (only hydrogen is smaller). It will permeate through aluminum very easily over time. Add any kind of polymer/plastic, and permeation rates are even higher. Even if they keep the pressure lower or at atmospheric, Helium will tend to want to equilibrate with the ambient.

They would have been better off using vacuum. A small vacuum pump could be easily integrated into controller board to keep vacuum in check. Field Helium refills will be almost impossible.

Just my $0.02 on this tech. Time will tell.

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post #25 of 27 Old 02-07-2014, 11:25 AM
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Just an aside but somewhat related. Helium has so many scientific and practical uses but is a non-renewable and finite resource and expected run out in a few years at its current usage rate. It's a shame that it's being wasted in balloons and other trivial uses. Think about it, next time you want to get Helium filled balloons for a party.

The other thing about these drives is that they have 7 platters. I hope that doesn't reduce the reliability significantly.
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Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

The more I think about Helim, the more I think that these will be a flop.

Helium is ridiculously difficult to seal, and keep sealed. With only 2 protons, and 2 electrons it is a very small molecule (only hydrogen is smaller). It will permeate through aluminum very easily over time. Add any kind of polymer/plastic, and permeation rates are even higher. Even if they keep the pressure lower or at atmospheric, Helium will tend to want to equilibrate with the ambient.

They would have been better off using vacuum. A small vacuum pump could be easily integrated into controller board to keep vacuum in check. Field Helium refills will be almost impossible.

Just my $0.02 on this tech. Time will tell.
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post #26 of 27 Old 02-07-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

The more I think about Helim, the more I think that these will be a flop.

Helium is ridiculously difficult to seal, and keep sealed. With only 2 protons, and 2 electrons it is a very small molecule (only hydrogen is smaller). It will permeate through aluminum very easily over time. Add any kind of polymer/plastic, and permeation rates are even higher. Even if they keep the pressure lower or at atmospheric, Helium will tend to want to equilibrate with the ambient.

They would have been better off using vacuum. A small vacuum pump could be easily integrated into controller board to keep vacuum in check. Field Helium refills will be almost impossible.

You really have no clue what you are talking about. rolleyes.gif

Hermetically sealing devices with He has been done for decades. It is well-understood, and you can be sure that Hitachi ran plenty of shock and endurance tests on their specific implementation.

Hard drives cannot operate with a vacuum. They require a gas to float the head over the platter.
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post #27 of 27 Old 02-07-2014, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCS View Post

So if this springs a leak in my case will be talking in a high pitched voice?

And will a server farm with these start to float?

tongue.gif

They would be very good for cloud storage. biggrin.gif
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