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post #31 of 55 Old 03-06-2014, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by durack View Post

Well, I am hoping for a low profile single slot card that does not require additional power. So far the best you can get is Radeon 7750 which is quite underpowered for any decent gaming.

With 750/750ti you can certainly make such a card - and hopefully even a fanless one. Right now I have a fanless Radeon HD6450 and while it is great as a silent card, it is incapable of any gaming at 1080p.

If you look at power settings, the 750/750ti are tied with R7 250 for power consumption and R7 250 is weak.

Here's wishing for a fanless single slot 750i for my HTPC in 2014 smile.gif

How about this one:http://www.techpowerup.com/198349/sapphire-announces-radeon-r7-240-low-profile-card.html
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post #32 of 55 Old 03-06-2014, 01:42 PM
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I believe that Radeon HD 7750 is more powerful than R7 250 or R7 240

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1840450/250-7750.html
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post #33 of 55 Old 03-06-2014, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by undertaken316 View Post

I don't understand why many are dissapointed by the 750 Ti performance. it nearly belongs to the mid end category, costs 130Euros and delivers 1080p/high ets/30FPS on most graphics heavy games. For only that price! I mean we can expect some awesome power delivered when the GTX800 arrive and implement a whole lot better the Maxwell architecture.

Also check out a very nice review:

Because an R265X is more than 20% more powerful for $149. This matters in games and also madvr, as the 265X is enough but the 750 might not be.

The 750 is great if you have a PSU with no power plugs, or you crave ultra low energy consumption. But for power you can get more for less $$. I think some appreciate the lower power consumption and that is the highlight of the 750, but others like to maximize the power of the GPU versus the cost- in which case it's not the best.

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post #34 of 55 Old 03-07-2014, 02:46 AM
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http://techreport.com/news/26125/radeon-r7-265-becomes-available-at-149-promptly-sells-out

The miners have wiped out the entire stock of the 265, it will not be $149, period. Also it's laughbly power inefficient, 150W compared to 60W.

GTX 750 Ti & GTX 750 is the best choice for low power HTPC and gaming.
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post #35 of 55 Old 03-07-2014, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

http://techreport.com/news/26125/radeon-r7-265-becomes-available-at-149-promptly-sells-out

The miners have wiped out the entire stock of the 265, it will not be $149, period. Also it's laughbly power inefficient, 150W compared to 60W.

GTX 750 Ti & GTX 750 is the best choice for low power HTPC and gaming.

That's under load which most HTPC GPUs never are, especially for significant periods of time. I wonder what the power consumption is for 720p/1080p 24fps content is. Since they both idle the same I can't see it being a huge difference.
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post #36 of 55 Old 03-07-2014, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

That's under load which most HTPC GPUs never are, especially for significant periods of time. I wonder what the power consumption is for 720p/1080p 24fps content is. Since they both idle the same I can't see it being a huge difference.


This.

But also radeons are better for MADVR and also HTPC in general since they support both 16-235 and 0-255 black levels over HDMI right out of the box

But if bit coins keep driving up the price of Radeons I think switching to Nvidia might be a good option. At MSRP Radeon is a great deal but +30% not so much .

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post #37 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 03:34 AM
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Have you really taken a look Anandtech's article then. The HTPC aspects decoding page with it's renderer benchmarks.**
http://anandtech.com/show/7764/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-750-ti-and-gtx-750-review-maxwell/8
Can't see how "radeons" are better for MadVR when a 7750 can't handle all of the content on default settings while a puny GT 640 does.
And then look at the stress settings. 750 Ti handled all of them without dropping frames. And look at the power consumption differences with a 60W TDP card (750 Ti) and a 55W* TDP card (7750).
Now imagine the power consumption numbers if you were to replace that 55W TDP 7750 with your beloved, unobtainium, R7 265 with 150W TDP which really is a HD 7850 OC'd. Or the 260X with it's 115W TDP.

You can always take a look at TPU's bluray consumption numbers which is also good when TPU's consumption numbers include only the graphics card and nothing else.

^dunno why 7750 ain't listed but it's 22W

That picture is actually quite sad. Look at it. LOOK at it. Almost all nvidia cards lined up one after another and consuming less than HD 7770 while playing bluray (not including GTX 690 which is 2x GTX 680 and GTX 580 which is old and can't see it as relevant to this discussion).. But seriously look at it. The fastest single gaming GPU on the planet, the GTX 780 Ti consumes less power playing bluray than a HD 7770 and then look at the fastest single gaming GPU AMD has to offer at the bottom of that image.

*afaik the 7750 Anandtech has is the 800Mhz clocked "original" variant which TDP is 55W.
**nothing's perfect though and do be aware of the driver issue Anandtech faced, they're waiting for new drivers and afaik they should be around the corner, something like the next week or the week after if previous releases are anything to go by.

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post #38 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 05:39 AM
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I do recognize the power consumption advantage nvidia holds, especially with this new card. But I think we are coming from different angles because that's just a whole lot less important to me than how good the card does on MadVR (Radeons are just better). I'd end up having to purchase a higher line of nvidia for a higher cost relative to Radeon which juts negates everything to me.

If you didn't want max levels of MadVR, did not mind doing the hack for 0-255 over HDMI, and didn't care about 4k/ high MadVR on video / or max performance settings gaming I think this nvidia card is a winner. The lower power is nice, lack of psu power is nice, the card isn't too big, it doesn't make much noise, and it should offer a reasonable gaming option to people on HTPC. 1080p gaming is actually a lot easier than 1200p or 1440p gaming which is what most HTPC users would do anyways.

I think most around here are adding GPU for MadVR though, I'd have to see more testing on this card to really understand how it does.

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post #39 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 06:05 AM
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The only madVR advantage Radeons have is for use of the new OpenCL features like NNEDI image doubling, which needs a much more powerful card anyway and is out of the league of the 750 (Ti) or the Radeon alternatives.
At the price point of the 750 (Ti), it clearly beats what AMD has to offer. In madVR performance Anandtech compared it with a 7750, which may not be the best match from a price comparison, but it beat it in every metric otherwise.

For the "old" madVR levels that people like to quote, this chart with level 1-5, the 750 Ti can do all of them, the 7750 cannot. Thats all Anandtech's review said.

If you care about 4K with madVR, you're going to want a faster card, is all.
Too bad AMD still hasn't managed to fix their extremely broken hardware decoder so that it could actually handle 4K files and you wouldn't have to pair it with a beefy Intel CPU to do that... tongue.gif
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post #40 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 06:28 AM
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Well thanks to bit coiners it might be the only option at that price. I think when you can grab r7 260 cards for $99 it changes things. But I can't see any good deals on Radeon cards. The all sell higher than msrp. That changes things. Pricing should look like on the street:

R7 260 $99
R7 260X $119
R7 260X $149
R9 270 $179
R9 270X $199
R9 280 $219
R9 280X $249

If that held true nvidia would be disadvantaged. But considering street pricing on Radeon the nvidia is indeed a great choice at that price.


I did find it funny that Anand used the 7750 for the review comparison intentionally to show the nvidia in a positive light. They do that often (ok almost always) with their reviews because they like to highlight in the most positive light the product in their review because they are chasing the $. You never read too much negative on Anand. It seems like the true competitor and the show down everyone always wants to see is missing for their reviews with a consistent regularity. Considering the 7750 is old and has been selling for a year under $99 makes it an illogical comparison. They should have used a $129 MSRP 260x or a $149 R7 265X if they wanted to be honest about it.

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post #41 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 06:57 AM
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Anandtech used the 7750 because it's the most powerful card AMD has without a power connector. The name of the game for HTPC is low power consumption, if you didn't realize that yet. Nobody in their right mind uses a card over 100/150W for HTPC.
Quote:
Home Theater PC (HTPC) enthusiasts keep close tabs on launch of discrete GPUs which don't need a PCIe power connector. Such cards make it easy to upgrade an old PC with a low-wattage PSU into a multimedia powerhouse.

It's like you intentionally ignore the facts and just want to shill for AMD. It's not Nvidia's fault that AMD is lazy & has been rebranding their outdated hardware while Nvidia makes the most power efficient GPU with even better Feature Set E hardware decoder, highest performance card that doesn't need external power connector.
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post #42 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HDGT View Post

Anandtech used the 7750 because it's the most powerful card AMD has without a power connector. The name of the game for HTPC is low power consumption, if you didn't realize that yet. Nobody in their right mind uses a card over 100/150W for HTPC.
It's like you intentionally ignore the facts and just want to shill for AMD.

Go back and read my very first post in this thread.

I will happily use a card that consumes twice as much power if it's cheaper and offers a higher level of performance. I'm not about to go hug a tree, and I won't miss the $5 extra in electricity as compared to the $50 I'll save on the product cost. If you want to save power turn it off. Or use iGPU. The amount of power consumed is typically related to the processing power. I'm all for a more efficient design but it's not at the top of my list. GPU cards and great video processing power are oil and low power consumption is like water, they don't mix well. When you enter into a territory where you want to game and MadVR you assume a certain amount of acceptance about increased power consumption.

If you can't max out settings on gaming for the price point but you can in a competing product for same price my guess is many gamers are going to take the GPU performance of option B over the power efficiency of option A. I can afford a few dollars for electricity. When my card is working I want it to work. If I wanted to save power I'd remove it or turn off the machine. Too much is made about power consumption sometimes. I don't care if my HTPC is consuming an extra 60 watts when playing a game as long as my frame rates and detail settings are high and my wallet isn't too low.

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post #43 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 07:49 AM
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Considering the 7750 is old

Its not like the new cards are actually much "newer", most r7/r9's are just re-badged 7xxx series cards with slightly adjusted clocks, especially in the mid-range. Only the high-end is actually something thats "new" over the 7xxx series, if you need that absolute gaming performance anyway.

The r7 260 is a cut-down 7790, and the r7 260X is a slightly higher-clocked 7790.
Why anyone gets excited when AMD released those, I'll never understand. At least the 750/750Ti are an actual new architecture - and while they may not hit whatever sweet-spot you dream of, they are making progress instead of just selling old chips again. smile.gif
(Selling older chips for cheaper is of course also easier then selling new stuff for cheap, but that should be obvious. Need to fund R&D.)

PS:
Cards that use more power also produce more heat, and more heat means more potential noise.
Always something to keep in mind, especially if you quote max settings in madVR, as that can actually make your GPU run on full steam and cause it to actually require cooling, instead of just plain video playback on default non-madVR settings which doesn't make any GPU sweat anymore.
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post #44 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Its not like the new cards are actually much "newer", most r7/r9's are just re-badged 7xxx series cards with slightly adjusted clocks, especially in the mid-range. Only the high-end is actually something thats "new" over the 7xxx series, if you need that absolute gaming performance anyway.

The r7 260 is a cut-down 7790, and the r7 260X is a slightly higher-clocked 7790.

Actually an R260 is a 7770ghz slightly improved and the R260X is a overclocked 7790 also slightly improved. But that correction does not take away from anything you are saying. I do agree with you, and the points you are making.

That said, Anand did take an old card (7750 that was not just old architecture but also rather weak too) which is a little misleading. The entire scope of the process was coming from the view that you needed a PCI express only powered card without any PCI express external power plugs. My first couple posts in this thread explained how that's not really important since any decent PSU has those. On a price and performance perspective that card should be compared to the R265X which is nearly 20% across the board and has a $149 MSRP. True and fact is that the Nvidia uses less watts, and no one can take that away from it.

Historically I always viewed the AMD vs Nvidia thing like this:

AMD = Higher GPU performance in gaming + Better MadVR performance + Less energy efficiency for the same cost
Nvidia = Less GPU performance in gaming + Less MadVR performance + Better energy efficiency for the same cost

Or I guess you could say it like too:

Nvidia = Same GPU performance in gaming + Same performance in MadVR + same energy efficiency for a higher cost.

Its' great that the Nvidia is more power efficient, and it's great it does not need PCI express PSU plugs to power it, but if AMD cards are 20% more powerful at $149 MSRP and support 0-255 out of the box on HDMI I don't see the major attraction.

I kind of wish Nvidia went in for the kill instead of just sitting by idle by bringing the new cards out at a price point/performance level nearly equal to AMD and had better energy efficiency as the advantage. That would be something fantastic; but when you need to pay a premium or suffer a performance penalty for what Nvidia is bringing to the table it loses a lot of it's appeal with the crowd that values performance and value above energy efficiency.

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post #45 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 09:16 AM
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7770 is a Cape Verde, while both 260/260X and 7790 are Bonaire. I think my info was more accurate. tongue.gif

PS:
I think relying on MSRP is kind of lying to yourself these days, at least for AMD cards.
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post #46 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
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PS:
Cards that use more power also produce more heat, and more heat means more potential noise.
Always something to keep in mind, especially if you quote max settings in madVR, as that can actually make your GPU run on full steam and cause it to actually require cooling, instead of just plain video playback on default non-madVR settings which doesn't make any GPU sweat anymore.

I think we disagree on this too. Actually what makes a card run hot is trying to make it do something where it needs to run hard to do it. That means if the card is barely capable of say JINC3+ AR and it needs to run 60%-85% GPU load to pull it off it's going to run a lot noisier and hotter doing it.

In contrast a GPU that's overkill and can do the same level in it's sleep under 50% load on the GPU is going to run cool and quiet. Most video cards have a thermal throttle and also a thermal adaptive fan setting that will force maximum fan speed and cooling (and noise) in an effort to keep the GPU running at max performance and keep it cool. This isn't what you necessarily need in HTPC, but it is handy in gaming if you are chasing frame rates. So overbuying a card is actually a great way to make sure you keep it quiet, since the fan won't need to run 100% ever.

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post #47 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 09:21 AM
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You can make a 290x run hot with madVR. If I buy a card with plenty power, I might want to make it run at 80% capacity at least (leaving some headroom to avoid glitches), why else would I buy a fast card. And it does get hot at such load already.
No reason it has to be extremely loud while doing so. My 780 GTX is really quiet even at full gaming load, as NVIDIA did a really nice job on the default cooler on this board.
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post #48 of 55 Old 03-08-2014, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

7770 is a Cape Verde, while both 260/260X and 7790 are Bonaire. I think my info was more accurate. tongue.gif

PS:
I think relying on MSRP is kind of lying to yourself these days, at least for AMD cards.

You might be right. I'll concede. I think in performance levels that is how it was explained to me.

But on the MSRP thing I think we need to look at that independently. It's a short lived phenomenom that seems to be coming to an end soon. 30 days from now streets will be flooded with new AMD cards I suspect. MSRP matters, since it will likely suggest long term street prices.

If AMD is inflated by 40% prices on the street then perhaps Nvidia is a better solution, because in that case it's more efficient and cheaper. It's all grey area here, not black and white. I just wish Nvidia kept up with Radeon performance at the same price points (MSRP or street) consistently. I'd probably choose them instead.

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post #49 of 55 Old 03-10-2014, 07:17 AM
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post #50 of 55 Old 03-24-2014, 10:02 PM
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Does anyone have one of these cards, and have the decoding issues from the Anandtech review been fixed with new drivers?
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post #51 of 55 Old 05-26-2014, 08:26 AM
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post #52 of 55 Old 07-29-2014, 08:03 AM
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http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/art...52-whql-driver

GeForce 340.52 WHQL drivers released.
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post #53 of 55 Old 10-10-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blushrts View Post
Does anyone have one of these cards, and have the decoding issues from the Anandtech review been fixed with new drivers?
Sorry to revive an older'ish thread but I am curious about this too.

I have a low profile Radeon 6570 in my HTPC today. It was widely regarded as one of the best HTPC cards a few years ago (with very high HQV scores), but a las, it is incapable of gaming at 1080p on my big screen.

I mainly use my HTPC for Windows Media Center, so deinterlacing is important as well.

Low profile GeForce 750 Ti cards are starting to pop up from Gigabyte, Galaxy and Zotac. This is the best low profile gaming-capable card out in the market today.

Have the new Nvidia drivers been improved at all from an HTPC perspective? Also, are the drivers able to display at the 0-255 range (I'm OK if it requires a simple registry hack)?
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post #54 of 55 Old 10-11-2014, 12:11 AM
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Have the new Nvidia drivers been improved at all from an HTPC perspective? Also, are the drivers able to display at the 0-255 range (I'm OK if it requires a simple registry hack)?
You still need a custom resolution (yup, a very imprecise '23.976Hz'), a registry hack or madshi's madLevelsTweaker.
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post #55 of 55 Old 10-11-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post
You still need a custom resolution (yup, a very imprecise '23.976Hz'), a registry hack or madshi's madLevelsTweaker.
That's annoying. I wish AMD would release a low profile, mid-level performance card card that's better performing than their LP Radeon 7750.

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