MakeMKV Default Selection - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 03-19-2014, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Recently started to use MakeMKV and want to make sure i am doing it right. I am a long time ClownBD to TS kind of guy and recently BDMV, but BDMV is not supported by Plex, so MakeMKV it is.

Overall, pretty simple, select file and go, but then I got thinking about what it is doing. I still use ClownBD because I am comfortable with it to get the playlist I want and such. I then select the index file in MakeMKV to create my MKV file. This is where the question came from, the default selection selects everything the way it is supposed to, except it selects the core audio as opposed to the lossless HD track.

Fine, it is one check box, but I wanted to make it easier...I modified the the default selection string from

-sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang),-sel:(havemulti|havecore),-sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang

to

-sel:all,+sel:(favlang|nolang),-sel:(havemulti|havelossless),-sel:mvcvideo,=100:all,-10:favlang

and this does what I wanted, selects everything except core.

Now, I have 2 questions. Do I need core selected or not because I never select it with ClownBD? If I uncheck core, the output file is smaller, but mediainfo still reports the single HD audio track. If I check core as well, I get 2 audio files listed by media info, the lossless and a lossy (4-5%), but the file size is almost exactly the same as the original M2TS outputted.

so what is going on here? is the core audio track actually a part of the lossy track and clown keeps them as one while MakeMKV splits it up? I just want to make sure I am using and doing things right with MakeMKV. If it wasnt for forced subs, I would probably still be with .TS, but having chapters is cool too.

Heck, even MKV doesnt solve everything though as I learned my A-110 doesnt like MKV and BD rips, so I still might be remuxing things like Planes (most recently) back to TS or M2TS... I just know BDMV support is missing from Plex, therefore, I cant use it...

Thanks. I hope this is the right forum and also that this makes enough sense that someone can answer my (in the end) basic questions.
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post #2 of 16 Old 03-19-2014, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

so what is going on here? is the core audio track actually a part of the lossy track and clown keeps them as one while MakeMKV splits it up?

 

Yes. On blu-ray, the core audio and lossless audio share some of the same data in order to save space. In MKV files, the core audio and the lossless audio are completely separate tracks, and the lossless track is usually much larger than the lossy track.

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post #3 of 16 Old 03-19-2014, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, so thats the confusing part. On Bluray it is shared. With MKV as they are separated, is the shared portion still added back to the lossless (now not shared)?

If I am only selecting lossless only, do I end up with exactly the same thing quality wise as before even though the core is stripped out? Or is it still technically there and make MKV is just making me over think things?
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post #4 of 16 Old 03-19-2014, 09:43 PM
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You have nothing to worry about.

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post #5 of 16 Old 03-19-2014, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

OK, so thats the confusing part. On Bluray it is shared. With MKV as they are separated, is the shared portion still added back to the lossless (now not shared)?

If I am only selecting lossless only, do I end up with exactly the same thing quality wise as before even though the core is stripped out? Or is it still technically there and make MKV is just making me over think things?

Select the top DTS lossless checkbox and it will include the core. If you click the sub box it will give you a second, generally unnecessary track. For Dolby TrueHD there isn't a core but that shouldn't be something you are worried about unless you have a playback device that can't decode or passthrough TrueHD (which I would say upgrade your playback device - for a PC use LAV filters).

Note that MakeMKV has a form on its site that is good to use for questions about the product.

There is also some recent discussion related to this here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1176923/movies-with-forced-subtitles/660
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post #6 of 16 Old 03-20-2014, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

OK, so thats the confusing part. On Bluray it is shared. With MKV as they are separated, is the shared portion still added back to the lossless (now not shared)?

If I am only selecting lossless only, do I end up with exactly the same thing quality wise as before even though the core is stripped out? Or is it still technically there and make MKV is just making me over think things?

Nothing too confusing. DTS-HD audio track requires the lossy 5.1 core + extra to get the entire lossless stream. However, there is no way for a container like mkv to contain a separate lossy DTS 5.1 track that points to the internal data of another audio track, the lossless. So, what MakeMKV does is make a copy of the core and name it DTS 5.1.

You can do it either way. The pro for getting separate DTS 5.1 track is the compatibility with different playback systems. Some may not support DTS-HD playback. The downside is you wasted extra space. Either way, it has no impact on DTS-HD track itself at all.
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post #7 of 16 Old 03-20-2014, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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That's brilliant. Thanks guys.

So essentially makemkv is making the core track available as a second track of I want it. Otherwise it is still indirectly a part of the HD track. Indirectly meaning the dtsma track still has all the "parts" it needs for the full HD lossless Goodness one comes to expect from a BD. Makemkv just wants to complicate my life and make me think I'm doing it wrong


Just curious, if I take my Mkv, remux to m2ts and then run that through makemkv s again, will makemkv one again last out the core track? A part of me says yes as it is all technically a part of the lossless track. Otherwise it makes me believe makemkv is technically modifying the audio track. I know, crazy, why am I even talking about this if I have my answer above. Essentially just for the same of my own knowledge, trying to grasp all the needy stuff. Never know when I will be at the bar discussing the inner workings of lossless audio tracks and MKVs.

Thanks again for clarifying, I can now proceed with my conversions. One more thing actually. It's the MKV smaller because of the container itself or because of its really removing that core audio component?
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post #8 of 16 Old 03-21-2014, 05:50 AM
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It's not makemkv making you think your doing it wrong. It's simply picking up a track available on the disc. Regardless that track if not added as part of the backup will now have less volume, thus a smaller file.
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post #9 of 16 Old 03-21-2014, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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the core file would have lower volume right? But if I take only the HD lossless track then life is good still even without the core since my playback device is not combining the tracks and only sees them as 2 individual tracks?
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post #10 of 16 Old 03-21-2014, 07:10 AM
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I think you may confusing the process. I haven't backed up a blu ray for a while, but tried to make head or tales out of your very thought when I started the process and tried to understand it.

As I understand it, the HD track has the core audio embedded into it no matter what you do. When backing up a blu ray I would only select the HD track and ignore the others, for this very reason. At the time I didn't have a receiver that would do DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD, yet when I play back the file I was still able to get my DTS or DD to light up as it would from the blu ray.

So you have your HD track which has the core embedded in to it, and then you have an additional track which is just the core. You can choose not to rip the core and if the device playing the audio file does not support the hd audio track it should default to the core audio that is embedded within it.
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post #11 of 16 Old 03-21-2014, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, makes sense. Over thinking it. MakeMkv just gives the added advantage of extracting the core itself to make it a separate audio track, otherwise the HD track still has the core embedded as it should Be.

And it is just a smaller file because it's Mkv.
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post #12 of 16 Old 03-21-2014, 12:45 PM
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Dolby TrueHD does not have core (DD 5.1) embedded. It is a separate track. So, if you want a DD 5.1 track, you'd better check the box to get that track.
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post #13 of 16 Old 03-21-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

the core file would have lower volume right? But if I take only the HD lossless track then life is good still even without the core since my playback device is not combining the tracks and only sees them as 2 individual tracks?

That's not correct. Volume has nothing to do with it. DTS HD MA requires the two parts, the core and the extension, to complete the lossless bits. Both parts are in the same audio stream. You can not have a DTS-HD MA track that is missing the core.
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post #14 of 16 Old 03-21-2014, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I understand that, but as far as the way makemkv is handling it, it shows me 2 tracks. Lossless and core. If I select lossless only, my Mkv has 1 audio track. If I select core are lossless my Mkv has 2 individual audio tracks.
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post #15 of 16 Old 03-22-2014, 01:05 AM
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You only need one or the other checked in MakeMKV - the lossless (DTS HD MA) already has all the components necessary for playback of either a lossless or lossy track. Can't think of any reason why MakeMKV. provides the option for both, as most players will downconvert the lossless track to core DTS on the fly, therefore only requiring the lossless track to be ripped (unless its a space issue for some).
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post #16 of 16 Old 03-22-2014, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Got it. Only gonna rip the lossless. It seemed the way to go, but some of these things really mess with your head.
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