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post #31 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 11:38 AM
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I run RAID 0 arrays for OS all the time.

Cheap easy performance.

If your data isn't sensitive or you back up there's little reason not to do it.
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post #32 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richjh101 View Post
I stumbled on this conversation and it reminded me of quotes on my Synology.com user forum. If you do a search under SSD you will find 1122 posts covering all aspects of SSD use. Also ajhieb sounds like the advice that would be given by a senior monitor on our site. Over years of listening I wound up using SHR2 which is equivalent to Raid 6. When you have terabytes of information gathered over years replacing my data would be very difficult if not impossible.
Rich
P.S. - Your data will fail, it's only a matter of when.
I agree completely. It would be foolish to put a bunch of valuable data on a RAID0 array (ssd or not) especially without a solid backup scheme. But the specific point I was trying to make is that not all data is irreplaceable, or even valuable, and in the case of the OP there may be very little downside to moving to a RAID-0 array.

In a more general sense my point is that there is very rarely "the way" to do something in the computing world. What is a great solution for one person, isn't necessarily the best solution for someone else. Priorities and circumstances differ greatly from one person to the next.

If the OP was outright wasting money (oxygen free, gold plated, titanium reinforced, O2 enhanced power cables for instance) on something that is categorically a scam, then by all means, tell him he's doing it wrong. But his goal is a faster OS drive, and his proposed solution seems to do that very thing at a fairly modest cost and what should amount to a small amount of effort, with pretty few real world drawbacks. Should he be made aware that a RAID-0 with two drives, double the chance of data loss? Sure, but if he understands that, I don't see the point of harping about it.

This reminds me of the "green" movement to a certain extent. Telling a guy that he should switch light bulbs because it will save the planet isn't going to do much good if he doesn't give a flying fig about the planet. Tell the same guy that he needs to switch lightbulbs because the new bulbs will save him moeny, and you'll probably get his attention. If you can't understand the other person's values and priorities, you'll never get through to them. Whining about data loss isn't going to change a guy's mind who doesn't care about his data in the first place.

/rant.
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post #33 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I just finished putting win8 onto a flash drive. Is it diferent by doing it the link?
Just copy = UEFI boot and create GPT partition table (see this instruction)
Windows 7 USB/DVD download tool = Traditional (?) boot and create MBR partition table (archaic).

Use the former.
Alright, I got two usb's with both the tool iso and just the install to media on the other usb. Will try the GPT first and if it doesn't work i'll try the other.

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post #34 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I run RAID 0 arrays for OS all the time.

Cheap easy performance.

If your data isn't sensitive or you back up there's little reason not to do it.

I Just use my PC for gaming and HTPC so nothing that important form me to worry about.

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post #35 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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It's an addiction lol.

why dont you just get one pcie SSD. that has the same performance as 3 SSDs in raid0.
never heard of it. link?

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post #36 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
Try installing the iso on to a flash drive by using this
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/...usbdvd_dwnTool
Personally I recommend GPT over MBR (any reason to use it in the latest system?). Just copy the entire contents of ISO to a USB flash drive formatted with FAT32. That's it. Detailed instruction to install Win8.1 using UEFI.

But I feel the problem is not a bad DVD-R.

So I did this and extracted the files to usb but the boot folder is only a little over 17 mb. Does that sound correct?

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post #37 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by richjh101 View Post
I stumbled on this conversation and it reminded me of quotes on my Synology.com user forum. If you do a search under SSD you will find 1122 posts covering all aspects of SSD use. Also ajhieb sounds like the advice that would be given by a senior monitor on our site. Over years of listening I wound up using SHR2 which is equivalent to Raid 6. When you have terabytes of information gathered over years replacing my data would be very difficult if not impossible.
Rich
P.S. - Your data will fail, it's only a matter of when.
I agree completely. It would be foolish to put a bunch of valuable data on a RAID0 array (ssd or not) especially without a solid backup scheme. But the specific point I was trying to make is that not all data is irreplaceable, or even valuable, and in the case of the OP there may be very little downside to moving to a RAID-0 array.

In a more general sense my point is that there is very rarely "the way" to do something in the computing world. What is a great solution for one person, isn't necessarily the best solution for someone else. Priorities and circumstances differ greatly from one person to the next.

If the OP was outright wasting money (oxygen free, gold plated, titanium reinforced, O2 enhanced power cables for instance) on something that is categorically a scam, then by all means, tell him he's doing it wrong. But his goal is a faster OS drive, and his proposed solution seems to do that very thing at a fairly modest cost and what should amount to a small amount of effort, with pretty few real world drawbacks. Should he be made aware that a RAID-0 with two drives, double the chance of data loss? Sure, but if he understands that, I don't see the point of harping about it.

This reminds me of the "green" movement to a certain extent. Telling a guy that he should switch light bulbs because it will save the planet isn't going to do much good if he doesn't give a flying fig about the planet. Tell the same guy that he needs to switch lightbulbs because the new bulbs will save him moeny, and you'll probably get his attention. If you can't understand the other person's values and priorities, you'll never get through to them. Whining about data loss isn't going to change a guy's mind who doesn't care about his data in the first place.

/rant.
when you say data loss you mean like I just lose my data, correct? Like the ssd's will just have to be re-formatted and will work fine again? I don't have anything real important so as long as it doesn't fry my ssd's then risk of data isn't a huge deal. Also, I just like learning how to do more so I might not keep it in raid for long I just like to push my pc and test things out. Sounded like fun so figured I'd give it a shot.

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post #38 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 01:16 PM
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It's an addiction lol.
why dont you just get one pcie SSD. that has the same performance as 3 SSDs in raid0.
never heard of it. link?
Just google it on your own lol, not hard to find results.
this is not yet on sale http://www.anandtech.com/show/8152/c...emos-pcie-ssds

These should be on sale but is slower than the above http://www.techspot.com/review/808-o...rive-350-pcie/

Another thing http://www.thessdreview.com/our-revi...ie-ssd-review/

A bunch of others reviewed here http://www.thessdreview.com/our-revi...e-our-reviews/

SSDs on pci-e are quickly becoming the "next best thing" now, so if you need ridiculous speeds and you don't care about price... that's what you should look at.

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post #39 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 01:29 PM
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when you say data loss you mean like I just lose my data, correct? Like the ssd's will just have to be re-formatted and will work fine again?
The data loss happens when a SSD stops working for some reason (just like if you were using normal hard drives). If it is fixable or not depends from what happened to the SSD.

Normal SSDs aren't immune to failure because they need to keep the price down, and using 3 units you multiply the chances of failure by 3 (no duh!), which is significant. You might be lucky or not. Just don't trust them too much.

Server SSDs are much more reliable, but cost 10 times more.
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post #40 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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It's an addiction lol.
why dont you just get one pcie SSD. that has the same performance as 3 SSDs in raid0.
never heard of it. link?
Just google it on your own lol, not hard to find results.
this is not yet on sale http://www.anandtech.com/show/8152/c...emos-pcie-ssds

These should be on sale but is slower than the above http://www.techspot.com/review/808-o...rive-350-pcie/

Another thing http://www.thessdreview.com/our-revi...ie-ssd-review/

A bunch of others reviewed here http://www.thessdreview.com/our-revi...e-our-reviews/

SSDs on pci-e are quickly becoming the "next best thing" now, so if you need ridiculous speeds and you don't care about price... that's what you should look at.

Wow those look ridiculous! I don't know if I have room with my 680FTW SLI though =(

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post #41 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 01:35 PM
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what's the motherboard? Asrock z77 is too little to identify it.

Although it's not hard to see if you have a spare pcie 2.0 x8 or not.... if that's the case you know what to look forward to.

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post #42 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 01:37 PM
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when you say data loss you mean like I just lose my data, correct? Like the ssd's will just have to be re-formatted and will work fine again? I don't have anything real important so as long as it doesn't fry my ssd's then risk of data isn't a huge deal. Also, I just like learning how to do more so I might not keep it in raid for long I just like to push my pc and test things out. Sounded like fun so figured I'd give it a shot.

Two different things being discussed with regards to data loss.

The first being that you will lose the data on your original SSD as part of migrating to RAID-0. It sounds like that is already done so that point is moot.

The second issue is the risk of data loss because of a drive failure. Since there is no redundancy in RAID-0 if one drive fails, you lose all of your data. Since you have two drives, you've effectively doubled the liklihood of a drive failure that results in complete data loss. (on those drives) But there is nothing inherent to RAID-0 that should make either of your drives more prone to failure.

To look at it another way, the drives' reliability will effect the array's reliability but the array's reliability can't effect the reliability of an individual drive.
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post #43 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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what's the motherboard? Asrock z77 is too little to identify it.

Although it's not hard to see if you have a spare pcie 2.0 x8 or not.... if that's the case you know what to look forward to.

Asrock Z77 extreme4. Probably have to upgrade my MB by the looks of it.
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post #44 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 03:45 PM
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never heard of it. link?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8104/i...ins-with-nvme/
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post #45 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 04:16 PM
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Yep. Only two pcie slots. Good board though.

You can look for boards that use PLX's PEX 8747 pcie 3.0 multiplier chip. I don't think there are boards with so much true pcie slots even now. High end boards with socket 1155 did have that chip, and by now should be relatively cheaper.

Such boards give you four PCIe 3.0 x8 slots (or two at x16), which allows space for upgrading too.
Since the SSD isn't going to be accessed constantly like a GPU, nor the GPU is really needing that much bandwith when something is being loaded from the hard drive (also because the SSD is using pcie 2.0 x8 so it's actually using only half of the pcie 3.0 x8 bandwith it could have access to), the performance impact of the multiplier should be negligible.

here a benchmark of the boards you can look at http://www.anandtech.com/show/6170/f...cs-and-evga/26
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post #46 of 64 Old 06-15-2014, 07:30 PM
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So I did this and extracted the files to usb but the boot folder is only a little over 17 mb. Does that sound correct?
Yes.

These PCIe SSD cards are mainly for the enterprise use. The next generation interfaces called SATA Express and M.2 (mobile version) are for the rest of us. Actually SATA Express is realized via PCI Express 3.0 x2 (2.0GB/s or 16Gbps, 3.3 times faster than SATA 600MB/s 6Gbps). Most of Z97 ATX motherboards come with one or two SATA Express connectors (and M.2 connector in many Z97/H97 mini-ITX/microATX motherboards). Unfortunately SATA Express SSD cards themselves are not available yet. So enjoy RAID 0 with two SATA SDD cards for the time being.



OK, the current SATA Express is connected to the chipset (i.e. PCI Express Gen 2), so the bandwidth is halved (1GB/s or 10Gbps). If Skylake/Z170 (H2 2015) ditches PCI Express 2.0 / DMI 2.0 (update: Yes, they will be ditched), then we will have the full bandwidth of SATA Express ...

Some ASRock Z97 mb have Ultra M.2 = Gen3 x4.

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post #47 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Ugh.. Can't get Windows to install without errors in raid 0 =(

Anyone have any pointers for bios settings or anything to watch for when booting into raid? I have asrock z77 extreme. I tried booting win7 from disc and win8 from USB and neither would make it through install without errors. Soon as I put boot back to default and deleted raid win7 booted up fine.

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post #48 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 01:46 AM
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Ugh.. Can't get Windows to install without errors in raid 0 =(

Anyone have any pointers for bios settings or anything to watch for when booting into raid? I have asrock z77 extreme. I tried booting win7 from disc and win8 from USB and neither would make it through install without errors. Soon as I put boot back to default and deleted raid win7 booted up fine.



Have you installed the Intel Rapid Storage F6 drivers when you first start the install (https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Det...wnldID=23496)?





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post #49 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 03:28 AM
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Win8 does not require F6 driver, it includes the RAID driver.

The RAID array is not created properly...?

Last edited by renethx; 06-16-2014 at 05:12 AM.
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post #50 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 08:44 AM
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Raw drive space leftover from the different sized drives?
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post #51 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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They are both 256GB and no I haven't tried installing intel rapid. Should I do that and then try win7 maybe? Also would it help if I installed Windows on a different drive than the two ssd's? Running out of ideas. Pretty sure my raid0 settings were correct.

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post #52 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 09:52 AM
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It's pretty straight forward in Win7/8. You shouldn't need to do anything beyond setting up the array unless you're running a 9 series chipset.

That being said... what are the errors you're getting?
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post #53 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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It's pretty straight forward in Win7/8. You shouldn't need to do anything beyond setting up the array unless you're running a 9 series chipset.

That being said... what are the errors you're getting?

I have the 3770 ivy and I can't remember what exactly the error was. I forgot to take a picture of that. I will work on it some more so I'll post it when I get home this evening.

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post #54 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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It's pretty straight forward in Win7/8. You shouldn't need to do anything beyond setting up the array unless you're running a 9 series chipset.

That being said... what are the errors you're getting?


This is the error I get when I try to install Windows 8.

Also a pic of my raid 0 settings. Changed ahci to raid in asrock bios.
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post #55 of 64 Old 06-16-2014, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Seems as if I got it working in win7. When I restart the pc the raid setup screen flashes and the two SSD's are partitioned so I think its good. Now to figure out how to get back to 8.1 lol.

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post #56 of 64 Old 06-17-2014, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I have 1 more question. Now that I have it running great in win7, can I juts upgrade to win8 without having to do anything with raid, and have it still be in raid once I've upgraded? I'll just leave it at 7 if I gotta but would like to be back to 8.1.

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post #57 of 64 Old 06-17-2014, 02:13 PM
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Once you build the raid array and the bios and system see it ok- you can install or reinstall any OS you want.

I'd clean install windows 8 rather than upgrade it though.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #58 of 64 Old 06-17-2014, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Once you build the raid array and the bios and system see it ok- you can install or reinstall any OS you want.

I'd clean install windows 8 rather than upgrade it though.

You'd stay away from 8.1?

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post #59 of 64 Old 06-17-2014, 04:02 PM
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You'd stay away from 8.1?
I'm fairly sure he means you shouldn't upgrade the current install of Win7 to Win8(.1) and instead should wipe it and start from scratch.

I'm also guessing he missed the part where you've already tried to perform a clean install of Win8.1

That said, what your success with Win7 tells me is that everything is setup and configured right from a hardware perspective. If Win8 continues to give you errors, the only thing I can really think of is corrupt install media or wrong drivers.

You might also try starting an upgrade to Win8(.1) to see if the installer finds any incompatabilities.
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post #60 of 64 Old 06-17-2014, 06:38 PM
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can you buy the 8.1 upgrade but still clean install if you dont want to in-place upgrade windows 7?

i remember you used to be able to do that with earlier windows, sometimes just putting in the old disk to verify then continue clean install.
windows 7 i installed the update clean, not activating it, then installed it over itself this time with key and activating.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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