U.S. COURT ORDERS SEIZURE OF “DVD RIPPING” SOFTWARE DOMAINS AND FUNDS (DVDFab) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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U.S. COURT ORDERS SEIZURE OF “DVD RIPPING” SOFTWARE DOMAINS AND FUNDS (DVDFab)

So the US government has officially allowed the companies to go after ripping software firms. Where does this leave us with media servers?

I find this rather disturbing b/c it could actually promote more piracy. At least we are buying the products that we rip. What a crock of feces.

https://torrentfreak.com/u-s-court-o...-funds-140310/


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post #2 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post
So the US government has officially allowed the companies to go after ripping software firms. Where does this leave us with media servers?

I find this rather disturbing b/c it could actually promote more piracy. At least we are buying the products that we rip. What a crock of feces.

https://torrentfreak.com/u-s-court-o...-funds-140310/
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BY ERNESTO ON MARCH 10, 2014
Old news. There's also a DVDFab thread up in streaming.


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post #3 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 09:54 AM
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A crock of feces. That's well said.

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post #4 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 10:00 AM
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That won't do anything good either. That is the irony.

First,
DVDfab will still be available in other countries, and through VPN downloads, and anyone using it likely is smart enough on a PC to know how to get it even if the USA URL download link is removed. Torrent downloads will probably be popular too, where peer to peer downloading bypasses the URL blocks and people just get it from other people rather than from the website.

Second,
If it was effective all all it would be effective at reducing the legitimacy of ripping your own media your pay for. A lot of folks buy discs with the intention of ripping them and enjoying them in a modern method via their HTPC hobby. If you can't do that, then that just promotes getting the movie via download (legal or illegal) which only hurts disc sales further.

Third,
The publicity alone that generates from this event probably boosts the use of DVDfab. Banning it makes it more desirable IMO. I bet a lot of folks that never used it before will now be interested in trying it out.

"crock of feces"
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post #5 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 10:25 AM
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"crock of feces"
Sounds like the name of a rock group from the 80's.
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post #6 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 10:33 AM
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Sounds like the name of a rock group from the 80's.
Haha. I'd probably buy the album. Oh wait.. people don't do that anymore right ?
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post #7 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post
Old news. There's also a DVDFab thread up in streaming.
Old news, but it still shows exactly how the Studios, NATO(North America Theater's Owners Association) and the DVD CCA, and many more, are very active towards piracy and copyright and they are not afraid to prosecute. That should make it very relative news.

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-n...inton-township

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...ecording-film/

http://www.businessinsider.com/man-i...-movies-2014-1

http://www.longisland.com/news/01-31...ed-movies.html

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/130...neworleans.htm

If you live in the US, i strongly suggest you do not rip or copy blu-rays.
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post #8 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 11:54 AM
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Haha. I'd probably buy the album. Oh wait.. people don't do that anymore right ?
Actually, vinyl is still sought after by high end audio enthusiasts and is still available through specialty outlets.
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post #9 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
Old news, but it still shows exactly how the Studios, NATO(North America Theater's Owners Association) and the DVD CCA, and many more, are very active towards piracy and copyright and they are not afraid to prosecute. That should make it very relative news.

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-n...inton-township

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...ecording-film/

http://www.businessinsider.com/man-i...-movies-2014-1

http://www.longisland.com/news/01-31...ed-movies.html

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/130...neworleans.htm
I support and commend all of those actions*. People who sell or otherwise distribute copyrighted content without permission, aka pirate it, should be prosecuted, what they're doing is not just against the law, but is harmful to those of us who prefer to stay within the law and who make a point of purchasing our own media. They are the ones who are giving "validation" (if nothing else) to this DRM and copy protection BS on purchased media, and in turn hurting those who "do right" by purchasing media.

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If you live in the US, i strongly suggest you do not rip or copy blu-rays.
If you've got a link to something where someone was arrested, prosecuted, or otherwise legally troubled for making a copy of a movie for personal use only, I would love to see it. That might change my perspective a bit. While it appears the letter of the law states that ripping copy protected content is illegal (though the arguably official interpretation differs) I've not seen any evidence that there is the capability or incentive/motivation to go after people like me who only rip movies they buy for their own personal use within the confines of their own home/devices.
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post #10 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 02:14 PM
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There is some degree of judgement with such cases. It's viewed differently in a court of law if someone buys a bluray and rips it for personal use or backup versus if someone rips it with the intention to defraud or profit from the action.

Without proving intent to defraud the rights holder, proving damages, or proving that the person is profiting from doing it then it will be hard to win a case in a court of law. That is why there is not many cases. But rights holders do like to send threat letters and extortion letter demands for payments to people suspected of being pirates. That business is as profitable as selling the media. That business is also a "crock of feces"

The funniest one I can think of was the 9 year old girl with the Winnie the poo laptop.

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post #11 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 02:18 PM
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Copyright law is extremely complex. It's so complex that lawyers, lawmakers, and experts heavily argue over how it's interpreted and applied. Nonetheless, if you commit a crime, you can't use ignorance as an excuse. The law doesn't (officially) offer leniency for misunderstanding or lack of knowledge.
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post #12 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I just don't know why they can't just make it legal to rip a movie for personal use? That is not going to hurt them at all.


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post #13 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 04:01 PM
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Copy control has never been about punishing the casual user. It's more about those renting a movie and copying it, or the electronics store employee who take a copy before it's release, ripping it and uploading to a cyber-locker for anyone and everyone to download free. It the few who screw it up for the rest. As those who purchase the movies and rip a backup, you should support going after those who abuse it.
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post #14 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 04:46 PM
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Ripping media for personal use was (and still is) legal under the "fair use" provisions of US copyright law. The last judge's decision was that bypassing encryption in order to copy something was a violation of the DMCA and thus illegal, therefore having the side effect of making it illegal to rip almost all commercial DVDs and Blu-ray Discs, as most of them have encryption. It's still legal (in the US) to rip unencrypted video discs and audio CDs for your own use and the use of your immediate family members.

While the ruling technically makes it illegal to rip everything else, most consumers don't care, and none of them have anything to fear, as law enforcement has neither the resources to enforce the ruling nor the means by which to ascertain who has violated it. They only go after pirates, and piracy is not covered under fair use, regardless of whether the original media was encrypted.
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post #15 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 06:38 PM
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But that girl was sharing content. Anytime you download a torrent you are also distributing it. This is not the same thing as ripping a legally purchased disc for your own personal use.

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Originally Posted by kjfalls View Post
Copy control has never been about punishing the casual user. It's more about those renting a movie and copying it, or the electronics store employee who take a copy before it's release, ripping it and uploading to a cyber-locker for anyone and everyone to download free. It the few who screw it up for the rest.
It's really about fear, fear of a changing marketplace and desperately trying to hang onto a sales model they understand. The music industry eventually figured out that DRM is useless and embraced digital distribution. And despite the fact that most things are DRM free, they still sell tons of music online, showing that people, in general, prefer to do the right thing and the easy thing and buy their music from a legit source than to obtain it other ways.

Quote:
As those who purchase the movies and rip a backup, you should support going after those who abuse it.
I do, I just wish more folks on the forum here would do the same.
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post #16 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kjfalls View Post
Copy control has never been about punishing the casual user. It's more about those renting a movie and copying it, or the electronics store employee who take a copy before it's release, ripping it and uploading to a cyber-locker for anyone and everyone to download free. It the few who screw it up for the rest. As those who purchase the movies and rip a backup, you should support going after those who abuse it.
That is just it. Why can't they change the law to make those people who are ripping for a backup and personal use legal, only stipulate that if you distribute via electronic or physical means that you are breaking the law. How hard would that be for them?

I fully agree with them going after the people who distribute BTW.


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post #17 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
Copyright law is extremely complex. It's so complex that lawyers, lawmakers, and experts heavily argue over how it's interpreted and applied. Nonetheless, if you commit a crime, you can't use ignorance as an excuse. The law doesn't (officially) offer leniency for misunderstanding or lack of knowledge.
I just finished reading an article that unequivocally stated that there were exactly three people in the world who actually and absolutely knew Copyright law. Unfortunately those three people disagree profusely with each other....
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post #18 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 07:17 PM
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I just finished reading an article that unequivocally stated that there were exactly three people in the world who actually and absolutely knew Copyright law. Unfortunately those three people disagree profusely with each other....
HaHa Right.

It is all fun and games. Until you have to call Mom and Dad for bail money, then it's hilarious.

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post #19 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 07:19 PM
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That is just it. Why can't they change the law to make those people who are ripping for a backup and personal use legal, only stipulate that if you distribute via electronic or physical means that you are breaking the law. How hard would that be for them?
Then how would they sell you a disc copy, then make you buy one for your iPad via iTunes, one for your Android phone via Google Play and one for watching on your TV via VUDU or some other rental service and then all of them again when your purchases and/or disc are "accidentally" lost or just revoked ala Amazon when their agreement with a content provider runs out?

What they really want is to eliminate hard copy distribution and make all media streaming only charging you each and every time you want to watch iwith no pause, no fast forward or rewind, one time only and if you don't scan you've bought their popcorn and/or soda it won't even play -- just like going to the movie theater.

The system will only be perfected when you have to pay for and download the decryption keys to the required chip implant in your brain in order to view/listen to/read the content.


 

 


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post #20 of 67 Old 06-17-2014, 09:53 PM
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What they really want is to eliminate hard copy distribution and make all media streaming only charging you each and every time you want to watch
This is the end goal, yes. Thankfully as long as physical media continue to generate enough sales to turn a profit, they will still exist.
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post #21 of 67 Old 06-18-2014, 05:32 AM
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What about the domains that are not US? I thought DVDfab was not an american company?


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post #22 of 67 Old 06-18-2014, 06:47 AM
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What about the domains that are not US? I thought DVDfab was not an american company?
They'll be taken out with drones.

I have serious concerns when Homeland Security and ICE are pulling people from movie theaters on behest of the MPAA. The US used to be governed by the rule of law. Now, it's just whoever has the most money/power to lobby. This is just a symptom.

 

 

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post #23 of 67 Old 06-18-2014, 07:18 AM
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They'll be taken out with drones.

I have serious concerns when Homeland Security and ICE are pulling people from movie theaters on behest of the MPAA. The US used to be governed by the rule of law. Now, it's just whoever has the most money/power to lobby. This is just a symptom.
I tend to completely agree with you on that...

Check out how easy it is to obtain firearm in poor countries in Africa where there is almost no food to eat...

The land is fertile enough to grow almost anything, yet people die of starvation, in the meanwhile, there is no gun factory but there is an abundance of firearms for rebel groups...

The gluttony of the rich and powerful is just too hard to imagine...
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post #24 of 67 Old 06-19-2014, 11:34 AM
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The last judge's decision was that bypassing encryption in order to copy something was a violation of the DMCA and thus illegal, therefore having the side effect of making it illegal to rip almost all commercial DVDs and Blu-ray Discs, as most of them have encryption.
This is not new. The first sentence of the DMCA (17 U.S. Code § 1201) is "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title" This law has been in place for 16 years. This judge hasn't changed anything.

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post #25 of 67 Old 06-24-2014, 10:38 PM
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That won't do anything good either. That is the irony.

First,
DVDfab will still be available in other countries, and through VPN downloads, and anyone using it likely is smart enough on a PC to know how to get it even if the USA URL download link is removed. Torrent downloads will probably be popular too, where peer to peer downloading bypasses the URL blocks and people just get it from other people rather than from the website.

Second,
If it was effective all all it would be effective at reducing the legitimacy of ripping your own media your pay for. A lot of folks buy discs with the intention of ripping them and enjoying them in a modern method via their HTPC hobby. If you can't do that, then that just promotes getting the movie via download (legal or illegal) which only hurts disc sales further.

Third,
The publicity alone that generates from this event probably boosts the use of DVDfab. Banning it makes it more desirable IMO. I bet a lot of folks that never used it before will now be interested in trying it out.

"crock of feces"
Exactly they really know how to shoot themselves in the foot.

Like the absurd PAP or downsample audio nonsense, yeah because pirates spreading about compressed MP3 really give a about 24bits vs 16bits, all they do is send legit customers down the alley of finding cracking and hacking and other programs to be able to use the freaking disks they paid for as they were mastered.

And now with 4k, they are going to kill it before it even begins with their new active HDCP nonsense garbage. People will not go for it if only special approved 4k scrrens work and they feel they have no option to make safe backups for the long, long term.

Seriously would I have bought a ton of blu-ray and HD DVD right away if I knew I could never easily burn them to HD eventually for safety once one format failed and the drives to play the losing format disappeared? NO. But because I knew I could safely copy it, I bought tons of disks.

And even now if blu-ray was as locked down as they are aiming for 4k, I'd barely have bothered to buy any of the stupid DRM'ed to heck disks, but instead BECAUSE I can get around the various protection crap and play them in MY viewers with the custom video and audio quality I want I've purchased TONS of blu-rays. I'd love to go for 4k disks, but sadly I fear I may not buy any, since I fear they will be DRM city. Hell with that. I'm not going to put my hard earned money to a pile of steaming DRM beyond DRM that restricts every darn ability to use the purchase properly.

Also did anyone see the DRM shitstorm over some of the Kickstarter movies where people hated on DRM'ed digital downloads (and even in the cases where people were upfront 100% told what they were getting, it apparently annoyed some so much that they still complained, which was perhaps a bit ridiculous, but it shows the level of hatred and the stupid futility of over the top DRM)? All that over the top you can't do this or that DRM just drives away business and does nothing to stop those determined to pirate. all it does it make legit people frustrated enough to dig into piracy.
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post #26 of 67 Old 06-24-2014, 10:42 PM
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But that girl was sharing content. Anytime you download a torrent you are also distributing it. This is not the same thing as ripping a legally purchased disc for your own personal use.



It's really about fear, fear of a changing marketplace and desperately trying to hang onto a sales model they understand. The music industry eventually figured out that DRM is useless and embraced digital distribution. And despite the fact that most things are DRM free, they still sell tons of music online, showing that people, in general, prefer to do the right thing and the easy thing and buy their music from a legit source than to obtain it other ways.



I do, I just wish more folks on the forum here would do the same.
Even the music industry still doesn't have it 100% right, they still refuse to allow no-compressed digital downloads unless they have DRM. So stupid. They lose soooo many more sales by that than they gain (which is probably maybe 3-4 sales per year gained and tens to hundreds of thousands lost).
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post #27 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 04:04 AM
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they did put up proxies pretty fast (an article talking about it) https://torrentfreak.com/us-copyrigh...-court-140424/
I mean it's not that hard, it's just a name. All torrenting sites that are theoretically "blocked" have dozens of proxy sites to reach them, always active. When a proxy gets blocked, others with a slightly different names pop up.
And frankly, the DVDFab company is in China, it's not like they kept all the stuff for their world-wide operations in US-reachable banks .

Not talking about ethics or law, just commenting at the laughable ineffectiveness of this measure.

It is time that those trying to enforce these retrograde views on copyright understand how small fish they are and how big is the pond. They are only making fools of themselves if they think they can influence anything with laws like that.

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The US used to be governed by the rule of law. Now, it's just whoever has the most money/power to lobby. This is just a symptom.
I'm more than half sure that "rule of law" never existed anywhere on Earth. Power/money always ruled, one way or another. Cosmetic changes here and there, more or less effective ways to hide it enough.

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post #28 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post
Even the music industry still doesn't have it 100% right, they still refuse to allow no-compressed digital downloads unless they have DRM. So stupid. They lose soooo many more sales by that than they gain (which is probably maybe 3-4 sales per year gained and tens to hundreds of thousands lost).
HDTracks.net is all DRM free. Not that I've looked hard, but I've not seen anywhere else to get lossless music.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #29 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by EricN View Post
This is not new. The first sentence of the DMCA (17 U.S. Code § 1201) is "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title" This law has been in place for 16 years. This judge hasn't changed anything.

https://chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/faq.cgi


https://supporters.eff.org/donate


That provision of the DMCA has nothing to do with making a copy of a dvd or bluray. That provision has to do with illegal access to copyrighted material.

For example, let's say that you buy software like Cyberlink DVD. If you try to bypass the access code that is required to activate (AKA access) the copyrighted software, then that is illegal. Nothing has changed, it always was illegal.

Now use Cyberlink DVD to play a DVD or a bluray disc. You do not need any circumvention software to play a DVD or a Bluray. DVDFab or AnyDVD, off or on, the original DVD or Bluray will still play.


Section 2 has to do with circumvention software. You can not manufacture, sell, traffic, etc in circumvention software. However, it is not illegal to use that same software (per the copyright office documentation).

What you legally do with a ripped dvd or bluray is beyond the scope of the DMCA. Personal use is one thing, but public exhibition is something else.

If you do not use your copy outside of personal use, there is no legal way for anyone to catch you!
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post #30 of 67 Old 06-25-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
That won't do anything good either. That is the irony.

First,
DVDfab will still be available in other countries, and through VPN downloads, and anyone using it likely is smart enough on a PC to know how to get it even if the USA URL download link is removed. Torrent downloads will probably be popular too, where peer to peer downloading bypasses the URL blocks and people just get it from other people rather than from the website.

Peer to peer makes you liable under the DMCA.
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