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Old 06-19-2014, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Dual HDMI output, one for video one for audio possible?

Hi,
While considering which hardware for my next HTPC, my 5 years old Onkyo TXNR-906 AVR died (famous HDMI board failure due to high temp), so now only HDMI input but no HDMI output
Because of this problem, I need a solution with two HDMI connections from my HTPC: one for video to my projector, and the other for HD auido to my AVR. This setup also solves the problem with 3D playback because my AVR is not capable of 3D.
I'm very much interested in Intel NUC, and I can see it comes with a mini HDMI and a mini displayPort. Is it possible to use the HDMI to output sound to my AVR and displayPort to HDMI adaptor for video to my projector?
Any suggestion is appreciated! Thank you!
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:34 AM
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Yes. use extended desktop mode, the main desktop (video only) to the display, the secondary desktop (video+audio) to the AVR. DP+passive DP-HDMI adapter is the same as HDMI. Don't use an active DP-HDMI adapter.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Experience with Synology DS214 or similar

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Yes. use extended desktop mode, the main desktop (video only) to the display, the secondary desktop (video+audio) to the AVR. DP+passive DP-HDMI adapter is the same as HDMI. Don't use an active DP-HDMI adapter.
Thank you! Glad to hear that there is a workaround.
Just give it another thought: could it also work with a HDMI splitter (one input, two outputs)?
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:21 AM
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No, with a HDMI splitter, the graphics card gets EDID information from both of display and AVR, and sends HDMI signal of the lowest common denominator. In your case, AVR does not support 3D, so the graphics card sends only 2D to the HDMI splitter, and the display does not support mulitchannel audio, so it sends only stereo audio (or no audio at all if the display does not support audio) to the splitter.

Last edited by renethx; 06-19-2014 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
No, with a HDMI splitter, the graphics card gets EDID information from both of display and AVR, and sends HDMI signal of the lowest common denominator. In your case, AVR does not support 3D, so the graphics card sends only 2D to the HDMI splitter, and the display does not support mulitchannel audio, so it sends only stereo audio (or no audio at all if the display does not support audio) to the splitter.
Ok, thank you!
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:58 AM
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An Oppo might work since it's not really a splitter. It has an input and dual outputs made for separating audio and video. Bonus is that it does some image processing, if you're into that sort of thing, as well as discs and streaming. Drawback is it's expensive.
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
An Oppo might work since it's not really a splitter. It has an input and dual outputs made for separating audio and video. Bonus is that it does some image processing, if you're into that sort of thing, as well as discs and streaming. Drawback is it's expensive.
Thank you for your reply!
Isn't Oppo a bluray player? Does it also accept input from HTPC? Sorry I don't know this product well, but I heard it being mentioned many times here. What are the benefits to buy such expensive Bluray player?
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somy View Post
Thank you for your reply!
Isn't Oppo a bluray player? Does it also accept input from HTPC? Sorry I don't know this product well, but I heard it being mentioned many times here. What are the benefits to buy such expensive Bluray player?
I'm no Oppo expert, but yes it is a bluray player. However, it's unique in that it has an HDMI INPUT and excellent video processing. So many people run all their sources through it for that reason. You should be able to run anything with an HDMI output, including a PC, through it.

You could ask in the Oppo forums to see if it will accomplish your goal. I think it will.

You can see the HDMI input and dual HDMI outs here:


Personally, I think your money would be better spent on a new, 3D capable AVR. I just got a smokin' deal on a Denon, closeout from last year. It does 3D, 7.1, Airplay, you name it, all for half the price of an Oppo.

Last edited by mdavej; 06-20-2014 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 07:07 PM
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There is two ways around this.

1. Purchase a 3D certified AVR.

2. Get a dual HDMI out card like GeForce GTX or GT series with HDMI out and DVI out.

Adding a Oppo or other Blu-Ray player takes away from the HTPC experience, why do that? A properly set up HTPC will make a Oppo look bad and will do far more than just a Blu-Ray player.

Run the HDMI to your AVR, run the DVI to your projector and attach with a DVI to HDMI adapter to use the projector HDMI input. Problem solved.

If you use 3D Vision from Nvidia and use PowerDVD for Blu-Ray 3D playback you are stuck using optical/toslink for audio out. If you use a spliter, vision software picks up the AVR and will not allow 3D output. Infuriating. The only way around this is dual HDMI out, last i looked no one is making, there is plenty of dual DVI on the market, but no dual HDMI i am aware of.

If someone is aware of a dual output HDMI video card, please post the link.
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post

If someone is aware of a dual output HDMI video card, please post the link.
I have a great GTX 650 Ti from Zotac; there are several in that line with dual HDMI available:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...06,3318-2.html

The newer 700 series doesn't yet have a dual HDMI model.
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:19 PM
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Basically you don't need a graphics card with dual HDMI port. DisplayPort with a 'passive' DP-HDMI adapter (never use an 'active' adapter) and DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter are identical with HDMI in every sense. (AMD cards require a proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter for this purpose, however.) The number of HDMI ports (native or obtained this way) supported simultaneously is

AMD Radeon HD 6xxx/7xxx: 1
AMD Radeon Rx Series: 3
GeForce: 4
Intel: 2

So avoid Radeon HD Series and you will be fine to play back BR 3D with a non-3D AVR. (Intel Celeron/Pentium does not support frame packing 3D.)

Actually you can also use a Radeon HD Series card if you use iGPU (assuming it's Intel or AMD APU) as a HDMI sound card.

Last edited by renethx; 06-23-2014 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
If you use 3D Vision from Nvidia and use PowerDVD for Blu-Ray 3D playback you are stuck using optical/toslink for audio out.
This is incorrect. At least your configuration is not right (or your card is non-standard, a kind of). PowerDVD 13/14 (and TMT too) supports BR 3D playback in dual 'HDMI display' mode, one being a 3D display and the other a non-3D AVR. Graphics card can be any of Radeon Rx Series, GeForce and Intel Core i3/i5/i7. HD audio bitstreaming (TrueHD/DTS-HD MA) works. AACS-encrypted BR 3D disc works without AnyDVD HD.

Last edited by renethx; 06-23-2014 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 06-23-2014, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Basically you don't need dual HDMI. DisplayPort with a 'passive' DP-HDMI adapter (never use an 'active' adapter) and DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter are identical with HDMI in every sense. (AMD cards require a proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter for this purpose, however.) The number of HDMI ports supported simultaneously is

AMD Radeon HD 6xxx/7xxx: 1
AMD Radeon Rx Series: 3
GeForce: 4
Intel: 2

So avoid Radeon HD Series and you will be fine to play back BR 3D with a non-3D AVR. (Intel Celeron/Pentium does not support frame packing 3D.)

Actually you can also use a Radeon HD Series card if you use iGPU (assuming it's Intel or AMD APU) as a HDMI sound card.
Thanks for the clarification!
For my next HTPC I won't bother with standalone graphics card (I don't see any benefit of doing that if I don't plan to run large 3D games). I'm choosing between NUC and customized DIY solution. Both solutions are based on Intel i3/i5 with HD4XXX graphic card, and I assume it should work with dual HDMI solution right?
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Old 06-23-2014, 01:39 AM
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Yes, it works.
Thanks for the confirmation!
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Old 06-23-2014, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Yes. use extended desktop mode, the main desktop (video only) to the display, the secondary desktop (video+audio) to the AVR. DP+passive DP-HDMI adapter is the same as HDMI. Don't use an active DP-HDMI adapter.
Keep in mind that extended desktop mode will degrade the performance of the video card compared to driving only one display.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:29 AM
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Bad news: I tested Intel HD Graphics 4600. It looks like Intel iGPU and PowerDVD (14) do not like each other. In dual HDMI display mode, PowerDVD refuses to enther 3D mode. In single display mode, it works (but of course audio is only stereo from the 3D display). I am not sure what the cause is. A lot of things have changed (driver, PowerDVD, IVB->Haswell) since the last time I tested.

Good news is that every Radeon Rx 2xx / GeForce GT(X) 6xx/7xx I tested worked just fine in dual HDMI display mode.

So, you may want to try Intel iGPU first, then a discrete card if it does not work (you will need a relatively large DIY case instead of NUC).
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
This is incorrect. At least your configuration is not right (or your card is non-standard, a kind of). PowerDVD 13/14 (and TMT too) supports BR 3D playback in dual 'HDMI display' mode, one being a 3D display and the other a non-3D AVR. Graphics card can be any of Radeon Rx Series, GeForce and Intel Core i3/i5/i7. HD audio bitstreaming (TrueHD/DTS-HD MA) works. AACS-encrypted BR 3D disc works without AnyDVD HD.
This has been debated to death. Even help support from Nvidia, PowerDVD tells you it will not work. I had to use HDMI to my non 3D AVR and DVI to my 3D projector for games or movies. If you are using Nvidia's 3D vision you will not be able to get a 3D signal thru a non 3D receiver. Also certain models will not pass the 3D signal threw even though it claims to.

Nvidia and PowerDVD are a pain in the rear when it comes to getting 3D to work.

Also any HDMI to DVI connector has to allow High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection(HDCP) or no Blu-Ray playback! For those thinking about a spliter, forget it, 3D Vision will drop back to 2D as the codecs will go to the AVR and get transmitted back to the GPU or projector as being non 3D compatible. Been there, did that, and left.

Run dual outputs or get a good AVR that is known to pass 3D signals in the raw.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:11 PM
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Well, it is a well-known fact that GeForce cards work with PowerDVD BR 3D in dual HDMI display mode. I have tested several Radeon / GeForce / Intel GPU with various PowerDVD / TMT versions in dual HDMI display mode for a couple of years. Summary in old days here in the sticky thread called FAQ for the 3D HTPC. Even yesterday I tested this mode with

- EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti (02G-P4-3751-KR)
- LG 3D HDTV
- ONKYO TX-SR606 (2008 model, non-3D of course)
- GeForce 337.88 driver (latest)
- PowerDVD 14.0.4028.58 (latest build)
- TotalMedia Theatre 6.7.1.199 (latest build)
- Tangled (2010) Blu-ray 3D (a real disc)
- No AnyDVD HD running

Frame packing 3D in LG display worked beautifully, with DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreaming to ONKYO AVR, in every combination of HDMI+DVI, DVI+HDMI, HDMI+DP, DP+HDMI, DVI+DP, DP+DVI (with a generic DVI-HDMI adapter and a generic passive DP-HDMI adapter).

Where has this been debated "to death" to find it no-working? At least not in this forum. This has been debated to death in this forum too (in "FAQ for the 3D HTPC" thread) and it looks like people here are enjoying BR 3D in dual HDMI display mode successfully. Which PowerDVD version / NVIDIA driver version / your graphics card model number are you using? Which 3D projector model / AVR model? Maybe you are using a 120Hz frame sequential 3D projector? That's another story.

Quote:
Even help support from Nvidia, PowerDVD tells you it will not work.

Never mind. These people (in particular in PowerDVD tech support) have no idea what they are talking about, as usual.

Last edited by renethx; 06-24-2014 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Bad news: I tested Intel HD Graphics 4600. It looks like Intel iGPU and PowerDVD (14) do not like each other. In dual HDMI display mode, PowerDVD refuses to enther 3D mode. In single display mode, it works (but of course audio is only stereo from the 3D display). I am not sure what the cause is. A lot of things have changed (driver, PowerDVD, IVB->Haswell) since the last time I tested.

Good news is that every Radeon Rx 2xx / GeForce GT(X) 6xx/7xx I tested worked just fine in dual HDMI display mode.

So, you may want to try Intel iGPU first, then a discrete card if it does not work (you will need a relatively large DIY case instead of NUC).
Hi renethx,

Thank you for testing this. So powerDVD works with intel iGPU in 2D mode for dual HDMI outputs right? Have you had a chance to try TMT for 3D?
Anyways, I'm not a big fan in 3D, and the reason why I want dual HDMI outputs is because the HDMI outputs in my Onkyo TXNR-906 is not working anymore.
Regarding the extended desktop, I'd like to ask why not just simply use the clone mode which should save some GPU resource right?
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somy View Post
Hi renethx,

Thank you for testing this. So powerDVD works with intel iGPU in 2D mode for dual HDMI outputs right? Have you had a chance to try TMT for 3D?
Anyways, I'm not a big fan in 3D, and the reason why I want dual HDMI outputs is because the HDMI outputs in my Onkyo TXNR-906 is not working anymore.
Regarding the extended desktop, I'd like to ask why not just simply use the clone mode which should save some GPU resource right?
2D works in either of extended desktop and clone modes, 2D to the display and HD audio bitstreaming to AVR. The play can be PowerDVD (AnyDVD HD is required in clone mode; TMT is not good in dual display mode) or MPC-HC/MPC-BE. But for 2D mode, using PowerDVD is somewhat pointless. Just rip a Blu-ray disc in MKV (by MakeMKV) and play it with MPC / madVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Keep in mind that extended desktop mode will degrade the performance of the video card compared to driving only one display.
Actually I don't see any performance degradation in dual display (precisely speaking, display+AVR) mode. When playing back a 1080i60 MKV with MPC-BE/madVR FSE (BC75AR chroma upscaling), GPU clock and usage are:

- Single display mode: 600MHz, 65%
- Clone mode: 600MHz, 65%
- Extended mode: 600MHz, 65%

Last edited by renethx; 06-24-2014 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
2D works in either of extended desktop and clone modes, 2D to the display and HD audio bitstreaming to AVR. The play can be PowerDVD (AnyDVD HD is required in clone mode; TMT is not good in dual display mode) or MPC-HC/MPC-BE. But for 2D mode, using PowerDVD is somewhat pointless. Just rip a Blu-ray disc in MKV (by MakeMKV) and play it with MPC / madVR.
PowerDVD or TMT is just for menus and other features in BD
BTW, powerDVD DXVA decoding quality is better than DXVA in MPC-HC in the old days, it seems that ATI uses another video pipeline for BD playback (at least luma expansion doesn't cause banding at all).
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Actually I don't see any performance degradation in dual display (precisely speaking, display+AVR) mode. When playing back a 1080i60 MKV with MPC-BE/madVR FSE (BC75AR chroma upscaling), GPU clock and usage are:

- Single display mode: 600MHz, 65%
- Clone mode: 600MHz, 65%
- Extended mode: 600MHz, 65%
Well, I have a HD 7790 and with the Windows 7 desktop on the one monitor and MPC-HC w/ madVR on my HDTV, I get a near slideshow. With just one display (my HDTV) with MPC-HC w/ madVR it's flawless.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Well, I have a HD 7790 and with the Windows 7 desktop on the one monitor and MPC-HC w/ madVR on my HDTV, I get a near slideshow. With just one display (my HDTV) with MPC-HC w/ madVR it's flawless.
I had that problem before with ATI HD5XXX GPU. I don't know if it is a driver problem or Windows problem. I'm wondering if the HDMI only outputs sound, could it work flawlessly?
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Well, I have a HD 7790 and with the Windows 7 desktop on the one monitor and MPC-HC w/ madVR on my HDTV, I get a near slideshow. With just one display (my HDTV) with MPC-HC w/ madVR it's flawless.
I thought this could happen because of Windows 7. (Lately I am using Windows 8.1 exclusively and I know by experience that Windows 8.1 is better than Windows 7 in many respects, including multiple display support.) So I tested dual display mode under Windows 7 (SP1) too.

- Intel HD Graphics 4600, HDMI -> a LG 3D HDTV, DP -> ONKYO AVR (which is connected to another display, but this does not affect the results [confirmed])
- PowerDVD 14
- MPC-BE with LAV Filters and madVR (all of them are the latest official builds)
- Tangled (2010) BR 3D (real disc and ISO) and several MKV files (as I wrote above, 3D in extended mode does not work with Intel iGPU, you will need AMD or NVIDIA GPU)

The tested modes are single display (i.e. LG 3D HDTV) mode, clone mode, and extended mode. Playback was just perfect, there was no performance degradation at all in either dual display mode, compared with the single display mode.

Software is evolving rapidly. Past experience often does not apply to the current systems.

Last edited by renethx; 06-25-2014 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Software is evolving rapidly. Past experience often does not apply to the current systems.
Well I tested only a few weeks ago, so I'm not sure what to tell you.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Well, I have a HD 7790 and with the Windows 7 desktop on the one monitor and MPC-HC w/ madVR on my HDTV, I get a near slideshow. With just one display (my HDTV) with MPC-HC w/ madVR it's flawless.
I don't mess with 3D, but I run a HD 7770 with a DVI=>HDMI to the TV and HDMI to the Pre-pro. Windows 7 and MPC-HC w/ madVR runs flawlessly.

I tried it once using the 7770 for video and the intel for audio but I lost the near perfect 23.976 I get with just the ATI.

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Old 06-25-2014, 07:14 AM
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Well I tested only a few weeks ago, so I'm not sure what to tell you.
Clean installing OS might be the answer. Video playback is so subtle. I don't know how old your system is and how messed your system is, though.

My current main system is running Win7 since 2009 and I see heavy stuttering in video playback in dual display mode even with the latest driver/player. The Win7 system used in the previous post is pristine.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:51 PM
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Sorry to drag up an old thread but this discussion encompasses exactly what I want to do. I still have a few questions though as my initial try at this was not met with success.

Problem: I have an Onkyo receiver that is terrible at keeping HDMI sync. Everytime I change resolutions, it loses HDMI sync causing me to have to turn off the receiver then turn back on. I therefore want to bypass the Onkyo all together. (FYI I tried HDMI Detective to solve this without success). Onkyo is apparently well know for this problem.

Equipment: LG 3D TV, Onkyo TX-SR608, AMD R280x, Intel 4000.
Software that has to work: WMC (including playback of protected content) and TMT6 for 3d Playback. I also use MPC-HC with MadVR (with refresh rate switching) for 2d Blu. Gaming.

I initially tried a dual monitor setup with the HDMI out on my AMD card going directly to the LG and the HDMI out on the Intel going to the receiver for sound. The monitor setup was setup as extended and the AMD card was set up as the main display. At first, it appeared to work, but I eventually ran into problems. For example, WMC started throwing errors regarding the protected video path. MPC with MadVR worked fine when I played an initial video but then wouldn't play one after that (black screen). I eventually had to give up on it and go back to my standard setup described above.

I would really like to get this to work. Do I have my dual monitor setup wrong? Should I try something else? I also wondered if I could use the HDMI out on my AMD card to send to the receiver and use a DVI to HDMI adapter on the DVI port so I didn't have to use the Intel card. Please let me know if anyone has any advise as to how best to handle this.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post
Basically you don't need a graphics card with dual HDMI port. DisplayPort with a 'passive' DP-HDMI adapter (never use an 'active' adapter) and DVI with a DVI-HDMI adapter are identical with HDMI in every sense. (AMD cards require a proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter for this purpose, however.) The number of HDMI ports (native or obtained this way) supported simultaneously is

AMD Radeon HD 6xxx/7xxx: 1
AMD Radeon Rx Series: 3
Well that's interesting... Since some Rx cards are basically just rebrands of 7-series cards (and 6-series if we're talking R5s), I wonder how that's possible? Is there actually some different HDMI hardware used on the newer cards or is this merely limited by the drivers/firmware? For example if one were to flash a 7770 to an R7 250X, would they get 3-output capability?
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