Are components' quality going downhill? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Home Theater Computers > Are components' quality going downhill?
politby's Avatar politby 12:26 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
I guess you're not able to exchange the CPU from the retailer? I'm not going to say it's impossible but it would be surprising to get 2 bad boards from that line. Those "TUF" boards are pretty much engineered for stability and reliability.
The CPU came from Amazon so I'd have to send it back. But I threw away the box (as in I never got a bad CPU before so why keep it?)

No local Amazon here so I use the Germany site. They still pay for return shipping (which goes to Denmark for some reason) but it's 2 days to there and then 3 days for a replacement back to me from Germany.
The Ballistix RAM is on its way back to them for a refund. It was actually sold as "used" so maybe it was a customer return that they sold again without testing.

I wonder how the POST process works - would it even get as far as the RAM warning light if the processor was bad?

bobafetthotmail's Avatar bobafetthotmail 04:41 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by politby View Post
I wonder how the POST process works - would it even get as far as the RAM warning light if the processor was bad?
Processor isn't a whole thing that can be "all good" or "all bad". It has multiple cores, caches, stuff that connects the parts, the Ram controller (the component that operates the RAM), the pci-e controller, the graphics and something else. Most of this stuff was in the chipset for socket 775 and earlier Intel processors (and the processor was just a processor, not a do-it-all). Some reliable source for the sake of not believing me at face value: http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/Soc...GA1150_H3.html

From what you say in your tests, and the fact that the ram controller is inside the processor (the mobo just has metallic traces between the processor and the ram slots), I'd say the processor is the number one suspect.
It's very rare for a processor to die on its own, but DOA happened to me (especially now that have so much more stuff in them, so while the processor works the integrated graphics is broken, or the PCI-e/ram controller is dead).

Dunno if you can still RMA it without boxes and stuff.
techmattr's Avatar techmattr 08:57 AM 06-25-2014
Yeah CPU issues are hard to troubleshoot. You can have a bad CPU and still be able to boot into an OS. I'd say there is a better chance of getting 2 bad motherboard in a row then ever getting 1 bad CPU.... but obviously it does happen. I forget where you're at currently on troubleshooting..... does the board start and then hang? You could plug one of those little PC speakers into the FPH or get a PCI debug card like this: http://www.wiredzone.com/Supermicro-...10019355~0.htm so you can at least get a POST beep or POST code. Everyone should have a PCI debug card anyway
StardogChampion's Avatar StardogChampion 09:10 AM 06-25-2014
You can RMA to the manufacturer without the box. You can buy one of the plastic CPU holders off eBay or I have a ton of them too if you want one I can send one along -- just buy the stamp.
ajhieb's Avatar ajhieb 09:10 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
or get a PCI debug card like this: http://www.wiredzone.com/Supermicro-...10019355~0.htm so you can at least get a POST beep or POST code. Everyone should have a PCI debug card anyway
I do not think that thing is the thing that you think that thing is.

But I agree, that troubleshooting hardware in this level becomes increasingly difficult without the right tools with which to test.
techmattr's Avatar techmattr 09:13 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post
You can RMA to the manufacturer without the box. You can buy one of the plastic CPU holders off eBay or I have a ton of them too if you want one I can send one along -- just buy the stamp.
In the US it takes about 2~3 weeks to get a CPU turned around from Intel. It's a fairly smooth process but the time is a bit frustrating.
politby's Avatar politby 10:17 AM 06-25-2014
[QUOTE=techmattr;25250954I forget where you're at currently on troubleshooting.....[/QUOTE]

Nowhere. I gave up

To summarize, as long as slots 3 and 4 - second memory channel - are empty, the system runs great. So I guess channel 2 is inop.

The CPU socket looks to be in perfect shape (used magnifying glass) so if it is a memory controller problem it's internal to the CPU.

Guess it could be a mechanical problem with the RAM slots but how likely is that.

As to why the problem was even worse (no POST with any RAM in any slot) on the second board I tried, anybody's guess...
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 10:42 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post
You can RMA to the manufacturer without the box. You can buy one of the plastic CPU holders off eBay or I have a ton of them too if you want one I can send one along -- just buy the stamp.
I think he is in the UK.

But +1. If you need the CPU holder or any boxes I have plenty, just not sure it's sensible to ship internationally. But it's all free to you if you need anything, I'd be happy to help.
StardogChampion's Avatar StardogChampion 10:48 AM 06-25-2014
Yeah, not worth $23.95 to ship overseas. There should be plenty on ebay.co.uk.
politby's Avatar politby 11:30 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfusick View Post
i think he is in the uk.
n59.45817 e18.39345


Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 12:08 PM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by politby View Post
n59.45817 e18.39345

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=n59.45817+e18.39345

I stand corrected.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 12:11 PM 06-25-2014
How wild is google ? I can take a street view.. You on the water ?
politby's Avatar politby 01:27 PM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
How wild is google ? I can take a street view.. You on the water ?
I am indeed. Right on the Baltic Sea. Archipelago of 30,000 islands in my back yard.

Street View is AMAZING. I can be sitting in front of it for hours.

I also find it quite a bit scary. Burglars only need a web browser to reconnoitre. But as Scott McNealy once said about the Internet era: "There is no privacy. Get over it."

I will go buy another CPU tomorrow to test with. Can always use a spare.
Andy_Steb's Avatar Andy_Steb 10:02 PM 06-25-2014
The Google camera truck ran your neighbor and her baby buggy off the road.
politby's Avatar politby 12:02 AM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post
The Google camera truck ran your neighbor and her baby buggy off the road.
Haha, I noticed that too. You can almost see the fright on their faces, pinned against the guard rail.

And they also mangled my trash can.
mcturkey's Avatar mcturkey 05:44 AM 06-26-2014
Component quality is not going downhill. If you've noticed an abrupt change in DOA parts in the last 6 months, you should consider 2 things - logistics and ESD.

The biggest reason for DOA components is poor handling somewhere along the way from the factory to your door. Different delivery drivers, changes in routes leading to excess heat/cold/bouncing around in the back of the truck, changes in packaging from the retailer, etc. This is most prevalent with hard drives, but all components can suffer from it.

ESD (electrostatic discharge), however, is an increasing problem. With each successive generation of components, trace density gets tighter. The amount of voltage required to cause significant damage to a board has gone from several thousand volts down to under 100 volts. To put this in perspective, you feel an ESD shock at 3000 volts, and won't see it until much higher (8000 volts, if memory serves). Sometimes the damage caused by these shocks won't be crippling or obvious at first, but even partial damage to an electrical trace can be compounded over time by successive heating and cooling cycles. I've seen a few motherboards recently that have coatings on them designed to reduce ESD potential, although I'm not sure how exactly that works or how effective it is (nor would I rely upon that). Using a properly grounded ESD strap when removing components from their ESD bags is critical, as is working on a surface that is not going to hold a charge.

Also, avoid having open computer cases near cats. They uh.. they like the heat, and aren't afraid to jump right onto motherboards (sigh...)
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 08:09 AM 06-26-2014
Google "computer" and "cat" and laugh when you find it. Easter egg hunt anyone?
Dark_Slayer's Avatar Dark_Slayer 02:18 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Google "computer" and "cat" and laugh when you find it. Easter egg hunt anyone?
Not sure which you are thinking of, but I remember when Dell users were saying their brand new laptops smelled like cat pee


Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 03:22 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post
Not sure which you are thinking of, but I remember when Dell users were saying their brand new laptops smelled like cat pee

lol. That's too funny.
CinemaAndy's Avatar CinemaAndy 05:02 PM 06-26-2014
I have also had some usually solid and reliable well know products show up DOA as of late. I wonder if the down turn in PC hardware quality is stemming from the mass exodus to laptop/tablet/smartphone.
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